Yet Another Plane Crash - This Time In Alps

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**d-usa**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Sigvatr wrote:
Recent news reported that he was on sick leave and was not to show up at work at the day of the crash.

If this was in fact the case then this raises some very serious questions.

To clarify from the German media (as far as I have read):

- He was not on any official sick leave as far as his employer was concerned.
- He had a note from his doctor excusing him from work, which was found torn up at his home
- It is not known what the ailment was that the note was covering

Not trying to excuse the behavior and decisions of the pilot, just clarifying that it doesn't appear that there was some sort of procedural error on the side of the airline and that, AFAIK, the airline had no knowledge of the existence of this note.

**whembly**

I wonder if there's a practical way to build these airplanes that doesn't have a cockpit door to the rest of the plane.

That is, you can only enter/leave the cockpit from external doors.

<shrugs>

Awfully expensive proposal for sure... but, how else can you enforce the 2 pilots in cockpit at all times?

**Steve steveson**

I don't think it's two pilots, but two crew. Any crew member will do. Say the pilot needs a dump one of the cabin crew can be in the cockpit just to ensure that you don't end up with a situation where they can't get back in if they needs to, be that due to an attempt to crash the plane, or illness. Part of the issue seems to have been that the pilot could not get back in because he panicked and couldn't remember the door code.

**d-usa**

Steve steveson wrote:
Part of the issue seems to have been that the pilot could not get back in because he panicked and couldn't remember the door code.

The person in the cockpit also has the ability to disable the regular code from inside the cockpit. This function exists to prevent a hijacking scenario where one of the bad guys tries to force the outside crew to open the door for them.

**PhantomViper**

Steve steveson wrote:
Part of the issue seems to have been that the pilot could not get back in because he panicked and couldn't remember the door code.

No, the pilot didn't panic, simply even when the correct code is entered any cabin occupant can still prevent the door from opening. This is done so that even if a possible terrorist learned the correct code he wouldn't be able to enter the cockpit.

P.S:- Damn, ninja'ed by milliseconds!

**CptJake**

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/03/breaking-german-news-germanwings-airbus-co-pilot-was-muslim-convert/

And here we go.....

**kronk**

CptJake wrote:
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/03/breaking-german-news-germanwings-airbus-co-pilot-was-muslim-convert/

And here we go.....

That doesn't seem like the most trustworthy news source.

**CptJake**

kronk wrote:
CptJake wrote:
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/03/breaking-german-news-germanwings-airbus-co-pilot-was-muslim-convert/

And here we go.....

That doesn't seem like the most trustworthy news source.

I concur. Same info is repeated here: http://www.westernjournalism.com/no-official-confirmation-that-killer-co-pilot-of-germanwings-airbus-was-a-muslim-convert/#3ltKOey82vt14BlP.99 but cites the same source.

We'll see. I just thought stirring the pot a bit with a source I cannot confirm to would be fun on a Friday afternoon.

**kronk**

I really hope that isn't true.

**d-usa**

Neither FoxNews nor Bild are running with the Muslim story, so if they are holding back on it then it should be regarded as highly suspect at this time.

**CptJake**

Absolutely. The source as it stands is crap.

**Howard A Treesong**

I've seen no mention of religion, just ongoing psychological problems. Apparently he'd recently broken up with his girlfriend. I'm sure she feels great knowing that may have led him to kill 150 others along with himself, but maybe that was the point of him doing it.

**Steve steveson**

d-usa wrote:
Steve steveson wrote:
Part of the issue seems to have been that the pilot could not get back in because he panicked and couldn't remember the door code.

The person in the cockpit also has the ability to disable the regular code from inside the cockpit. This function exists to prevent a hijacking scenario where one of the bad guys tries to force the outside crew to open the door for them.

That makes sense. Just goes to show how much crap news outlets make up.

**d-usa**

CptJake wrote:
Absolutely. The source as it stands is crap.

It seems that all the sources claiming ties to Islam relied on another source that made the "discovery" after the news announced finding something "significant" in his apartment. The timing of those articles would place the whole Islam thing after the announcement of "finding something significant" but before the announcement that they found "torn up old and current doctor's notes excusing him from work". So sounds like they just jumped the gun and tried to be sensational.

**Dreadclaw69**

d-usa wrote:
Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Sigvatr wrote:
Recent news reported that he was on sick leave and was not to show up at work at the day of the crash.

If this was in fact the case then this raises some very serious questions.

To clarify from the German media (as far as I have read):

- He was not on any official sick leave as far as his employer was concerned.
- He had a note from his doctor excusing him from work, which was found torn up at his home
- It is not known what the ailment was that the note was covering

Not trying to excuse the behavior and decisions of the pilot, just clarifying that it doesn't appear that there was some sort of procedural error on the side of the airline and that, AFAIK, the airline had no knowledge of the existence of this note.

Thank you for that clarification. If the airline was unaware of his condition then that resolves many of my concerns

**CptJake**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
If the airline was unaware of his condition then that resolves many of my concerns

I'm pretty sure the airline's lawyers and executives are in overdrive to find all kinds of reasons this can't be their fault. There will be a lot they were not aware of, even if they were.

**timetowaste85**

I'd be sweating if I was his doctor though and knew he was imbalanced enough for a sick note. If he was depressed enough to have said anything suicidal, the doc would have had fair grounds to bring it to the proper people, as its a safety issue for himself, and given his job, others. Well, was, a safety issue.

**BlaxicanX**

Medium of Death wrote:
d-usa wrote:
Of course that is totally what I am saying.

But please continue to dedicate your time to posting on a wargaming forum that has no impact on your life.

So I have the same level of responsibility as international broadcasting corporations

The only responsibility international broadcasting corporations have is to make money. Assuming otherwise is silly. The news puts up what people want to see.

**Peregrine**

timetowaste85 wrote:
I'd be sweating if I was his doctor though and knew he was imbalanced enough for a sick note. If he was depressed enough to have said anything suicidal, the doc would have had fair grounds to bring it to the proper people, as its a safety issue for himself, and given his job, others. Well, was, a safety issue.

That really depends on exactly what the note was about. Privacy laws put strict limits on what a doctor can disclose without the patient's permission, so unless he actually mentioned suicide then I don't know if mere depression would be enough to legally justify telling his employer. And of course if it was a physical issue instead of a mental one (for example, vision problems that would prevent him from flying safely) then that would certainly have to be kept private.

**Orlanth**

Poor Germanwings

They had to suddenly pull a large scale advertising campaign in London they had just paid for.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Steve steveson wrote:
I don't think it's two pilots, but two crew. Any crew member will do. Say the pilot needs a dump one of the cabin crew can be in the cockpit just to ensure that you don't end up with a situation where they can't get back in if they needs to, be that due to an attempt to crash the plane, or illness. Part of the issue seems to have been that the pilot could not get back in because he panicked and couldn't remember the door code.

This is likely sufficient, according to pres reports this is not the first time a suicidal pilot has taken a plane load of passengers with him. Its the fifth since 1994. Scary thought really.

Having two crew in the cockpit also helps if there is a door malfunction, sudden illness of the sole pilot or any number of conditions, as the captain will not leave the cockpit for long you could send up the flight engineer or senior cabin staff for overwatch in that time.

**PrehistoricUFO**

"The fact there are sick notes saying he was unable to work, among other things, that were found torn up, which were recent and even from the day of the crime, support the assumption based on the preliminary examination that the deceased hid his illness from his employer and his professional colleagues," they said.

Meanwhile Bild, the German newspaper, reported that "Lubitz had a serious relationship crisis with his girlfriend before the disaster and the resulting heartbreak is thought to have led to this.

"Investigators are currently pursuing this line of enquiry with vigour."

A friend of Lubitz said: "His nickname was 'Tomato Andi' - a reference to his past employment as a flight steward," adding that he worked for nearly a year for Lufthansa as a cabin attendant before being accepted for flight training.

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11496066/Andreas-Lubitz-and-Patrick-S-What-do-we-know-about-the-pilots-on-Germanwings-flight-4U9525.html

I guess they're going to go with the mental illness exacerbated by relationship troubles and . . . past professional trauma?

**d-usa**

Well, the Bild is the German version of the Daily Mail so I always take their reporting with a grain of salt.

**Orlanth**

d-usa wrote:
Well, the Bild is the German version of the Daily Mail so I always take their reporting with a grain of salt.

Supposedly as its just a Daily Mailesque story then, the plane might actually still be up there?

**Hordini**

That bit of text from Speisa about the co-pilot supposedly converting to Islam is probably the worst translation I've ever read on a news site.

**SagesStone**

Howard A Treesong wrote:
I've seen no mention of religion, just ongoing psychological problems. Apparently he'd recently broken up with his girlfriend. I'm sure she feels great knowing that may have led him to kill 150 others along with himself, but maybe that was the point of him doing it.

Yep, depression.

**His Master's Voice**

Wonder if Germanwings has a different screening process for the crew compared to Lufthansa.

As in, does the cheap part in "cheap airlines" plays a part in all of this.

**Relapse**

This is spooky. There is a movie that came out in 2014 with a story that is similar to the German air crash:

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2015/03/31/wild-tales-has-disclaimer-added-due-to-similarities-with-germanwings-crash/

**Tyr13**

They found the second blackbox.

Edited because source was incorrect.

**Minx**

Tyr13 wrote:
They found the second blackbox. And a tablet that was still salvageable... Kind of horrible. The owner was researching suicide and how to open the cockpit door. :(

The tablet has been found in the co-pilot's home iirc. And it does seem like this new evidence supports the earlier assumption of a deliberate crash to kill the passengers and himself. Horrible :(

**Dropbear Victim**

Im glad they found the blackbox, although the new evidence from the house search is damning.