which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Kain**

Wraithknights making the Heirodule look like hot garbage for half the points. Well, they already did, but now my poor babies are almost thoroughly obsolent.

**Eldarain**

Kain wrote:
Wraithknights making the Heirodule look like hot garbage for half the points. Well, they already did, but now my poor babies are almost thoroughly obsolent.

Yeah. Thinking about how these compare to my recently painted beasty is quite depressing. Could you imagine the response you'd get if you proposed these changes in the proposed rules forum?

I think I'll hold off finishing up my Dark Angels in case Plasma Talons and DW Knights get D weapons...

**Alcibiades**

*takes tentative step in*

I think that GW prices units based not only on their stat line but on the physical size of the model. Large footprint and large profile equate to decreased cost, because it becomes increasingy impossible to hide the thing. This is partly why the Wraithknight is so seemingly undercosted; the same goes for the jetbikes (and Tomb Blades for that matter -- this is why they are barey more expensive than an Immortal).

**clamclaw**

Bharring wrote:
Why is 'EML lost pinning' not an option?

Shhh, no. You're not meeting the current complaint meta. Stick to the script please.

**Kain**

Eldarain wrote:
Kain wrote:
Wraithknights making the Heirodule look like hot garbage for half the points. Well, they already did, but now my poor babies are almost thoroughly obsolent.

Yeah. Thinking about how these compare to my recently painted beasty is quite depressing. Could you imagine the response you'd get if you proposed these changes in the proposed rules forum?

I think I'll hold off finishing up my Dark Angels in case Plasma Talons and DW Knights get D weapons...

I already saw that the Heirodule was going to suck as a Lord of War when I found that one statistically gets its face beaten in by Lysander in assault.

Now I'm just wondering what's the point of its existence. So many points for either a horrendously overcosted and thoroughly mediocre assault beast, or a platform for S10 guns (that have AP3 and thus can only HP vehicles to death and is more likely to penetrate a land-raider than a Terminator's pauldrons

) that's still hideously overcosted and has abysmal resiliency per point next to the Wraithknight, Dreadknight, and Riptide.

**ClassicCarraway**

wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I think the new Jetbikes will change the meta while the Wraithknight as LoW does not.
Let's see if Wraithguard comes with D cannons.

This was already confirmed. Stock WG come with D-cannons that are Str D. D-Scythes are Str D but have a special rule that makes them subtract 1 from the Destroyer chart roll, so they can never get the 6+D6 wounds/penetrating hits with no save allowed, but on a 3+, they get D3 wounds/penetrating hits, so they still erase everything without a good invulnerable save. Oh, and D-scythe WG cost the same as stock, and there was no point increase for the D upgrade....which is what aggravates me to no end. WK get a massive upgrade for very little points increase, in fact, they are criminally underpriced no matter how you look at it. WG get a significant upgrade, no points increase at all (but lost the ability to be troops).

Granted, there may be other caveats we just haven't seen yet, such as maybe WG not fitting in a WS (which based on the model, makes perfect sense, after all, terminators can't ride in a rhino), which would reduce their power to more acceptable levels. This codex scares me, but I'm holding out hope that some of the madness was balanced in other ways (although the WK is just busted, not really seeing any way that is not the case).

**Ravenous D**

Hemlocks are really boss. -2 Ld to all enemies within 12" + D + ML 2 and telepathy? Seriously??

Combo that with Death jesters and your chasing people off the board.

**bullyboy**

Ravenous D wrote:
Hemlocks are really boss. -2 Ld to all enemies within 12" + D + ML 2 and telepathy? Seriously??

Combo that with Death jesters and your chasing people off the board.

so now it's seer council, bike formation, wraith guard with DE allies for WWP, multiple knights, hemlocks, AND Harlequin formation. Phew, hard to keep up with all the cheese in one force, although I don't usually play 3000pts so no worries there.

**Ravenous D**

bullyboy wrote:
Ravenous D wrote:
Hemlocks are really boss. -2 Ld to all enemies within 12" + D + ML 2 and telepathy? Seriously??

Combo that with Death jesters and your chasing people off the board.

so now it's seer council, bike formation, wraith guard with DE allies for WWP, multiple knights, hemlocks, AND Harlequin formation. Phew, hard to keep up with all the cheese in one force, although I don't usually play 3000pts so no worries there.

Don't forget the aspect host where the only restriction of the formation is to have an exarch to give all models +1bs or Ws and get reroll Lds.

**gmaleron**

Galef wrote:
As an Eldar player since 2008, I was really looking forward to being able to play my Eldar without people complaining. That is NOT gonna happen now.

I wouldn't sweat it to much, people will always complain and blow things out of proportion and its easier to be negative then constructive. Also and I mean no offense to IoM players that have not done this, but it seems that if any Xenos races get a great unit or even a few its IoM players in particular that freak out the most when they can cherry pick literally out of any book they want. Play what you want to play and if they refuse games with you your better off not playing them, its hurting them as well as its one less game they are getting in and depending on their attitude going on about it they could be labeled TFG.

**SilverDevilfish**

Kain wrote:
Eldarain wrote:
Kain wrote:
Wraithknights making the Heirodule look like hot garbage for half the points. Well, they already did, but now my poor babies are almost thoroughly obsolent.

Yeah. Thinking about how these compare to my recently painted beasty is quite depressing. Could you imagine the response you'd get if you proposed these changes in the proposed rules forum?

I think I'll hold off finishing up my Dark Angels in case Plasma Talons and DW Knights get D weapons...

I already saw that the Heirodule was going to suck as a Lord of War when I found that one statistically gets its face beaten in by Lysander in assault.

Now I'm just wondering what's the point of its existence. So many points for either a horrendously overcosted and thoroughly mediocre assault beast, or a platform for S10 guns (that have AP3 and thus can only HP vehicles to death and is more likely to penetrate a land-raider than a Terminator's pauldrons ) that's still hideously overcosted and has abysmal resiliency per point next to the Wraithknight, Dreadknight, and Riptide.

The problem with the Heirodule is it's points costs and abilities haven't changed much, if at all, in... what? 3... 4 editions? FW needs to reevaluate the points costs of it's older stuff, especially now that Gargs and SH aren't their babies anymore.

**greyknight12**

monders wrote:
I find it worrying that seemingly grown-assed adults can get upset at something in a tabletop game.

Because these grown-assed adults have paid several thousand dollars in many cases to play that game. It brought them enjoyment, and in this particular case it appears that the game they loved is taking a dramatic nosedive into an oblivion that none of them wanted. Most of them feel that 1) they could do a better job and 2) the company's priorities when it comes to gameplay are now so far removed from theirs that they feel betrayed. It's watching something you've invested time and effort into be destroyed.

It's probably worse because up until the necron codex, pretty much everything since Codex: Space Marines was kind of "meh", the power level of the game appeared to be equalizing and there was hope for 40K to be a good, decent game. Sure it wasn't perfect, but lictors were winning tournaments and we got an AdMech army. But as we should all know by now, hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

**StarHunter25**

I read through the codex a little while ago (I dont have it, dont have access to it now). The thing that will go under the radar are warlock conclaves at first. BoS, 1-3 gives ML1, 4-7 gives ML2, 7-10 gives ML3. Each warlock generates a warp charge. they also harness charge on a 3+.
Second thing is that farseers can selectively re-roll any dice when making DTW. good luck getting powers off against eldar who can EASILY manage 20+ dice on master levels/warlocks alone.
Everyone is getting nerdrage about scatterlaser jetbikes, when it will be the shuri-cannon ones that cause the real murder.

Plus, the real crown of

-dom is the hemlock. 15 points less than a stormraven gets you BS5 flier with psychic pilot 2, who can roll on sanctic, RoB or telepathy. it also has 2 heavy d-scythes, which are S: D ap2 blasts with -1 on D-table. plus this thing counts as a "wraith construct" (the thing that lets you bring a wraithknight)

Me and a buddy made a 1750 list that consists of the following:
---
Windrider host (once per game all suriken get shred)
Jetseer w/ relic that lets you reduce warp charge cost by 1, to minimum of 1
5x jetbike warlocks
windriders w/ suriken cannon x6 & warlock
windriders w/ suriken cannon x6 & warlock
windriders w/ suriken cannon x5 & warlock
Viper with EML {EML comes standard with plasma (S4 AP4 blast), krak, and flakk}
---
Wraithknight w 2x heavy wraithcannon ( S: D AP2, heavy 1)
Hemlock
Hemlock
Hemlock
Hemlock

This came to just shy of 1750. 21+d6 warp charge per turn. 2 single shot D shots, 8 D blasts, with potential for vortex of doom on anything if you want to roll it. Only 1 warlord trait is mediocre, the rest are amazing. Even the vyper is barely a tax. It's a cheap, mobile multi-purpose gun platform, and is fairly cheap and durable skyfire. IIRC it comes stock with a 5++, or it was very cheap to upgrade to it (like a meltabomb or 2).

Was reading through the post on /tg/ about the new book, and appearantly a few games have already been played. a 1750 game VS white scar gravbikers resulted in the marines tabled by end of turn 2. Necron decurion tabled by turn 3 and 4. Pentyrant got absolutely wrecked, losing 3 flyrants turn 1 and the others turn 2. Guy said eldar took some losses in these games, but wraithknights never went down. Welcome to WarEldar40k.

**The Imperial Answer**

StarHunter25 wrote:
I read through the codex a little while ago (I dont have it, dont have access to it now). The thing that will go under the radar are warlock conclaves at first. BoS, 1-3 gives ML1, 4-7 gives ML2, 7-10 gives ML3. Each warlock generates a warp charge. they also harness charge on a 3+.
Second thing is that farseers can selectively re-roll any dice when making DTW. good luck getting powers off against eldar who can EASILY manage 20+ dice on master levels/warlocks alone.
Everyone is getting nerdrage about scatterlaser jetbikes, when it will be the shuri-cannon ones that cause the real murder.

Plus, the real crown of -dom is the hemlock. 15 points less than a stormraven gets you BS5 flier with psychic pilot 2, who can roll on sanctic, RoB or telepathy. it also has 2 heavy d-scythes, which are S: D ap2 blasts with -1 on D-table. plus this thing counts as a "wraith construct" (the thing that lets you bring a wraithknight)

Me and a buddy made a 1750 list that consists of the following:
---
Windrider host (once per game all suriken get shred)
Jetseer w/ relic that lets you reduce warp charge cost by 1, to minimum of 1
5x jetbike warlocks
windriders w/ suriken cannon x6 & warlock
windriders w/ suriken cannon x6 & warlock
windriders w/ suriken cannon x5 & warlock
Viper with EML {EML comes standard with plasma (S4 AP4 blast), krak, and flakk}
---
Wraithknight w 2x heavy wraithcannon ( S: D AP2, heavy 1)
Hemlock
Hemlock
Hemlock
Hemlock

This came to just shy of 1750. 21+d6 warp charge per turn. 2 single shot D shots, 8 D blasts, with potential for vortex of doom on anything if you want to roll it. Only 1 warlord trait is mediocre, the rest are amazing. Even the vyper is barely a tax. It's a cheap, mobile multi-purpose gun platform, and is fairly cheap and durable skyfire. IIRC it comes stock with a 5++, or it was very cheap to upgrade to it (like a meltabomb or 2).

Was reading through the post on /tg/ about the new book, and appearantly a few games have already been played. a 1750 game VS white scar gravbikers resulted in the marines tabled by end of turn 2. Necron decurion tabled by turn 3 and 4. Pentyrant got absolutely wrecked, losing 3 flyrants turn 1 and the others turn 2. Guy said eldar took some losses in these games, but wraithknights never went down. Welcome to WarEldar40k.

Well at least games against the Eldar will be extremely quick if this is any indication.

**Massaen**

StarHunter25 wrote:

Me and a buddy made a 1750 list that consists of the following:
---
Windrider host (once per game all suriken get shred)
Jetseer w/ relic that lets you reduce warp charge cost by 1, to minimum of 1
5x jetbike warlocks
windriders w/ suriken cannon x6 & warlock
windriders w/ suriken cannon x6 & warlock
windriders w/ suriken cannon x5 & warlock
Viper with EML {EML comes standard with plasma (S4 AP4 blast), krak, and flakk}
---
Wraithknight w 2x heavy wraithcannon ( S: D AP2, heavy 1)
Hemlock
Hemlock
Hemlock
Hemlock

Crap. Its no where close to 1750. Its over 2k. Even with just the rumoured points - the knight is 295, the 4 hemlocks are 740. The 17 bikes are 459 and the 8 warlocks are 400. The farseer (by old points) will be 150ish and another 50 odd for the viper. Just shy of 2100 points.

This is the sort of fear mongering and scare tactics we can do without thanks.

StarHunter25 wrote:
Was reading through the post on /tg/ about the new book, and appearantly a few games have already been played. a 1750 game VS white scar gravbikers resulted in the marines tabled by end of turn 2. Necron decurion tabled by turn 3 and 4. Pentyrant got absolutely wrecked, losing 3 flyrants turn 1 and the others turn 2. Guy said eldar took some losses in these games, but wraithknights never went down. Welcome to WarEldar40k.

Again - please. White scar grav bikers wreck a Wk hard. The only addition to survivability for the WK is FNP. It takes just 21 grav gun shots - all of 7 grav guns - to kill it dead. A proper WS biker list will easily have 12-20 of them. They are also fully capable of handling the scatter bikes - so much so that the WK is actually low on the threat list. The Decurion literally has a situation where EVERY gauss weapon in the list can hurt the WK and things like wraiths and doom scythes hurt it bad too. How did the nids loose 3 flyrants turn 1?!?!

This is all anecdotal "evidence" without any clarity in the actual lists (hard since the dex is still not officially out) and not backed up with any real facts - it just reads as "OMG ELDARZ ARE OP" nonsense again.

I agree the book has some serious issues and it hurts to admit that given my 20+ years playing them but all this supposed WARELDAR40K nonsense needs to stop until we have some actual hard data and experience.

**KingmanHighborn**

Nothing bothers me at all.

**Mr.Church13**

I just bought some Skitarii and everything in this dex just wrecks their face. That bugs me and tells me GW knew exactly what they were doing releasing Skitarii first then immediately invalidating that entire Dex.

The only saving grace in my return to 40k is I'm the Craftworld Eldar guy in our group and I just can't bring myself to use this Atom Bomb of a codex.

**Theduke07**

That they weren't removed from the game. Clearly GDumb couldn't balance even an empty scale

**Ravenous D**

Mr.Church13 wrote:
I just bought some Skitarii and everything in this dex just wrecks their face. That bugs me and tells me GW knew exactly what they were doing releasing Skitarii first then immediately invalidating that entire Dex.

The only saving grace in my return to 40k is I'm the Craftworld Eldar guy in our group and I just can't bring myself to use this Atom Bomb of a codex.

How so? The skitarii actually were beating the crap out of me yesterday using the new eldar book, wraithknight was dead turn 3 and I barely won with 1 VP because I cleared off an objective (with 2 of his other units near by)

**Tamwulf**

Massaen wrote:
StarHunter25 wrote:

Me and a buddy made a 1750 list that consists of the following:
---
Windrider host (once per game all suriken get shred)
Jetseer w/ relic that lets you reduce warp charge cost by 1, to minimum of 1
5x jetbike warlocks
windriders w/ suriken cannon x6 & warlock
windriders w/ suriken cannon x6 & warlock
windriders w/ suriken cannon x5 & warlock
Viper with EML {EML comes standard with plasma (S4 AP4 blast), krak, and flakk}
---
Wraithknight w 2x heavy wraithcannon ( S: D AP2, heavy 1)
Hemlock
Hemlock
Hemlock
Hemlock

Crap. Its no where close to 1750. Its over 2k. Even with just the rumoured points - the knight is 295, the 4 hemlocks are 740. The 17 bikes are 459 and the 8 warlocks are 400. The farseer (by old points) will be 150ish and another 50 odd for the viper. Just shy of 2100 points.

This is the sort of fear mongering and scare tactics we can do without thanks.

StarHunter25 wrote:
Was reading through the post on /tg/ about the new book, and appearantly a few games have already been played. a 1750 game VS white scar gravbikers resulted in the marines tabled by end of turn 2. Necron decurion tabled by turn 3 and 4. Pentyrant got absolutely wrecked, losing 3 flyrants turn 1 and the others turn 2. Guy said eldar took some losses in these games, but wraithknights never went down. Welcome to WarEldar40k.

Again - please. White scar grav bikers wreck a Wk hard. The only addition to survivability for the WK is FNP. It takes just 21 grav gun shots - all of 7 grav guns - to kill it dead. A proper WS biker list will easily have 12-20 of them. They are also fully capable of handling the scatter bikes - so much so that the WK is actually low on the threat list. The Decurion literally has a situation where EVERY gauss weapon in the list can hurt the WK and things like wraiths and doom scythes hurt it bad too. How did the nids loose 3 flyrants turn 1?!?!

This is all anecdotal "evidence" without any clarity in the actual lists (hard since the dex is still not officially out) and not backed up with any real facts - it just reads as "OMG ELDARZ ARE OP" nonsense again.

I agree the book has some serious issues and it hurts to admit that given my 20+ years playing them but all this supposed WARELDAR40K nonsense needs to stop until we have some actual hard data and experience.

While the list skewed and over points, his fear mongering is a bit justified.

The other way is just as bad:

Again - please. White scar grav bikers wreck a Wk hard.

I would agree with this, except you are talking about is 7 grave guns... which would take a minimum of 4 bike squads:
3 models +2 Grav Guns comes in a little under 100 points. Four such squads would be a little under 400 points... which is more than a WK costs. I would expect 400 points worth of models to be able to kill 300 points of models. However, what is the rest of your army doing? What is the rest of the Eldar army doing? Because I can't see an Eldar playing willingly offering up his WK for you to kill without some form of retaliation back. Not sure how Space Marine bikes can compete with Eldar Jetbikes- they are faster, more maneuverable, will have more shots... if we go with the 3 model SM Bike squad noted above, you will have one twin linked bolter and two Grav Guns. For that many points, I can field 4 Eldar Jetbikes with all scatterlasers. That's 16 shots at 36" compared to 6 Gravguns and 1 Bolter shot at 24". I'm pretty sure the Eldar will have 1-2 rounds of shooting on you unless you just turboboost right across the board turn 1 and fore go shooting for a turn, trusting in your armor and jink saves.

It would be an interesting game! There are two players at my FLGS that run all bikes+Imperial Knight, and two more that run all Thunderwolves. I'm really looking forward to playing them with the new Eldar codex. It'll be a relatively simple list- 30 Jet Bikes, a WK, couple Wave Serpents with Wraith Guard, and a Farseer on Jetbike. First turn, I'll be shooting 120 S6 weapons at him... 90+ will hit, and vs. bikes, that's 60 wounds he'll have to save... meaning I should take out 20 bikes on the first turn of the game. Average rolling of course. With my dice, it'll be closer to 10. LOL

Yeah, I want to be 'That Guy' because I'm tired of those stupid lists just wrecking everyone at my club.

**StarHunter25**

the list I put together was using points from the codex. entire thing was leaked on /tg/. the only thing you may have mis-enterpereted is that the windrider squads are technically 5 + warlock, 5+warlock, 4+warlock. ML3 farseer on bike with the relic is 130. Warlocks in conclave are 50 each. hemlock 185, vyper 75 with EML.

**Mr.Church13**

Ravenous D wrote:
Mr.Church13 wrote:
I just bought some Skitarii and everything in this dex just wrecks their face. That bugs me and tells me GW knew exactly what they were doing releasing Skitarii first then immediately invalidating that entire Dex.

The only saving grace in my return to 40k is I'm the Craftworld Eldar guy in our group and I just can't bring myself to use this Atom Bomb of a codex.

How so? The skitarii actually were beating the crap out of me yesterday using the new eldar book, wraithknight was dead turn 3 and I barely won with 1 VP because I cleared off an objective (with 2 of his other units near by)

Jetbikes spam alone decimates anything you can build with the new dex. Not to mention anything dstr at all. Obviously you were not getting rofl stomped because someone was using the old eldar dex and not the upcoming one.

I'm just hoping that the rumored full AdMech Dex will give us some tools to defend ourselves because soon Eldar will have to massively pull punches to have a non steamroller game with any halfway competent person behind them.

**Mr Morden**

Ravenous D wrote:
Mr.Church13 wrote:
I just bought some Skitarii and everything in this dex just wrecks their face. That bugs me and tells me GW knew exactly what they were doing releasing Skitarii first then immediately invalidating that entire Dex.

The only saving grace in my return to 40k is I'm the Craftworld Eldar guy in our group and I just can't bring myself to use this Atom Bomb of a codex.

How so? The skitarii actually were beating the crap out of me yesterday using the new eldar book, wraithknight was dead turn 3 and I barely won with 1 VP because I cleared off an objective (with 2 of his other units near by)

so you won then................

**TheKbob**

The biggest problem will most certainly be the formation bonus, I bet. Guaranteed 6" running will mean the best players will dance on the boundaries of threat ranges, ensuring minimal to no retaliation.

The first level pass will show the Wraithknight, the bikes, the Wraithguard. Next will come the psykers, flyers, and aspect warriors. Finally, that 6" run always.

Eldar are the most powerful book as they can now effectively eliminate dice rolls from the game with superior spells, long range mobile gun platforms, D weapons, and losing almost all random from movement.

**herohammer**

Hands down the jet bike change followed by the wraithknight buffs and the scythe guard buffs. The jetbikes are so absolutely absurd in terms of fire power that they invalidate everything else in the book aside from units that can counter av13-14 which they cannot deal with. This is where the wraithknight, and if dark eldar allies are added, the scythe guard come in since they perfectly complement the jetbikes to produce an army that is weak against nothing in the game and which only can face a potential challenge from decurion necrons because of the durability decurion provides.

Each wave serpent shooting its shield averaged 4.5 ignore cover twin linked pinning shots and 4 s6 shots. For the price of a serpent with usual upgrades you get around 5 bikes. That puts out 20 s6 shots. Yes the bikes are easier to kill than serpent but they have so much shooting that you can take half a unit of 10 off the table and still face more return fire than your own non-eldar army is probably bringing for the price of all 10 bikes. They are also ld8 which will pass the majority of their LD tests from taking casualties so running them off the board that way is not reliable at all.

**Ravenous D**

Mr Morden wrote:
Ravenous D wrote:
Mr.Church13 wrote:
I just bought some Skitarii and everything in this dex just wrecks their face. That bugs me and tells me GW knew exactly what they were doing releasing Skitarii first then immediately invalidating that entire Dex.

The only saving grace in my return to 40k is I'm the Craftworld Eldar guy in our group and I just can't bring myself to use this Atom Bomb of a codex.

How so? The skitarii actually were beating the crap out of me yesterday using the new eldar book, wraithknight was dead turn 3 and I barely won with 1 VP because I cleared off an objective (with 2 of his other units near by)

so you won then................

I fluked it and it ended turn5 and had 3 models left. You guys are blowing this out of proportion. Just adapt, buy a fething drop pod. Rad carbines ate my uber D knight.

Plus you're getting the cult mechanicus and imp knight dexes in a few weeks, clear the sand out of your circuits.

**Mr Morden**

Ravenous D wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
Ravenous D wrote:
Mr.Church13 wrote:
I just bought some Skitarii and everything in this dex just wrecks their face. That bugs me and tells me GW knew exactly what they were doing releasing Skitarii first then immediately invalidating that entire Dex.

The only saving grace in my return to 40k is I'm the Craftworld Eldar guy in our group and I just can't bring myself to use this Atom Bomb of a codex.

How so? The skitarii actually were beating the crap out of me yesterday using the new eldar book, wraithknight was dead turn 3 and I barely won with 1 VP because I cleared off an objective (with 2 of his other units near by)

so you won then................

I fluked it and it ended turn5 and had 3 models left. You guys are blowing this out of proportion. Just adapt, buy a fething drop pod.its.

Ahh the old - LTP - often the refuge of a player with a cheese army..........................

**Frozocrone**

After hearing rumours about the Eldar there is one change that, while not game-breaking, really irritates me.

Howling Banshees (and Banshee Masks) prevent an opponent from firing Overwatch.

Close Combat units, especially those with poor armour saves would love to avoid a second round of fire before they get stuck into combat. The fact that Eldar get access to a unit that ignore Overwatch, while still having what is looking to be a strong Codex, just irritates me. I wanna use ma Genestealers..

**Kain**

Frozocrone wrote:
After hearing rumours about the Eldar there is one change that, while not game-breaking, really irritates me.

Howling Banshees (and Banshee Masks) prevent an opponent from firing Overwatch.

Close Combat units, especially those with poor armour saves would love to avoid a second round of fire before they get stuck into combat. The fact that Eldar get access to a unit that ignore Overwatch, while still having what is looking to be a strong Codex, just irritates me. I wanna use ma Genestealers..

YOU'LL SHOOT WITH YOUR TYRANIDS AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!/GW

I'm going to cry in the corner now.

**Mr.Church13**

The louder the cries of adapt the stronger the more near broken a codex becomes.