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 GKTiberius wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:


To me, perhaps with the benefit of perspective of where the fluff is today, the way the 2nd ed codex is setting the scene is Abaddon has been bringing together the forces of chaos to the point where he can launch the greatest and final black crusade, the one which will bring the imperium to it's knees.


"12 failures" is nothing to do with retcon. It is something the playerbase invented.

I agree. The previous 12 crusades were not endgame moves. They were accomplishing specific goals. Taking Terra was not the goal of any of the previous 12 crusades, so to say because he didn't do that, it was a failed mission would be like saying because the invasion of Normandy didn't immediately result in the fall of Berlin, it was a complete failure.

Exactly. Abaddon's mode of operation seems to be have a smoke screen of fake objectives, allowing him to accomplish his own secret objective (acquiring his daemonsword, finding the psyker on Pandorax, etc).

nareik wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:


To me, perhaps with the benefit of perspective of where the fluff is today, the way the 2nd ed codex is setting the scene is Abaddon has been bringing together the forces of chaos to the point where he can launch the greatest and final black crusade, the one which will bring the imperium to it's knees.


"12 failures" is nothing to do with retcon. It is something the playerbase invented.

I agree. The previous 12 crusades were not endgame moves. They were accomplishing specific goals. Taking Terra was not the goal of any of the previous 12 crusades, so to say because he didn't do that, it was a failed mission would be like saying because the invasion of Normandy didn't immediately result in the fall of Berlin, it was a complete failure.

Exactly. Abaddon's mode of operation seems to be have a smoke screen of fake objectives, allowing him to accomplish his own secret objective (acquiring his daemonsword, finding the psyker on Pandorax, etc).

Honestly I preferred Abbaddon as a failure as a general. I mean now he move around looking for trinkets like a bored player character in a video-game instead of even trying to defeat his enemies. Finding daemon-swords, Blackstone-fortresses and other stuff. I know its supposed to be awesome, but he comes across to me as even more incompetent than before due to that.

 Beaviz81 wrote:

nareik wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:


To me, perhaps with the benefit of perspective of where the fluff is today, the way the 2nd ed codex is setting the scene is Abaddon has been bringing together the forces of chaos to the point where he can launch the greatest and final black crusade, the one which will bring the imperium to it's knees.


"12 failures" is nothing to do with retcon. It is something the playerbase invented.

I agree. The previous 12 crusades were not endgame moves. They were accomplishing specific goals. Taking Terra was not the goal of any of the previous 12 crusades, so to say because he didn't do that, it was a failed mission would be like saying because the invasion of Normandy didn't immediately result in the fall of Berlin, it was a complete failure.

Exactly. Abaddon's mode of operation seems to be have a smoke screen of fake objectives, allowing him to accomplish his own secret objective (acquiring his daemonsword, finding the psyker on Pandorax, etc).

Honestly I preferred Abbaddon as a failure as a general. I mean now he move around looking for trinkets like a bored player character in a video-game instead of even trying to defeat his enemies. Finding daemon-swords, Blackstone-fortresses and other stuff. I know its supposed to be awesome, but he comes across to me as even more incompetent than before due to that.

It could also be that he knows that unless he can unify all of chaos forces in the EOT that he cannot win, there fore these "trinkets" (including blackstone fortresses, some of the most powerful objects in the galaxy) are stepping stones to achieving that goal. As a warlord, he must prove his power to those he leads, unlike order who must follow the chain of command.

 GKTiberius wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

nareik wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:


To me, perhaps with the benefit of perspective of where the fluff is today, the way the 2nd ed codex is setting the scene is Abaddon has been bringing together the forces of chaos to the point where he can launch the greatest and final black crusade, the one which will bring the imperium to it's knees.


"12 failures" is nothing to do with retcon. It is something the playerbase invented.

I agree. The previous 12 crusades were not endgame moves. They were accomplishing specific goals. Taking Terra was not the goal of any of the previous 12 crusades, so to say because he didn't do that, it was a failed mission would be like saying because the invasion of Normandy didn't immediately result in the fall of Berlin, it was a complete failure.

Exactly. Abaddon's mode of operation seems to be have a smoke screen of fake objectives, allowing him to accomplish his own secret objective (acquiring his daemonsword, finding the psyker on Pandorax, etc).

Honestly I preferred Abbaddon as a failure as a general. I mean now he move around looking for trinkets like a bored player character in a video-game instead of even trying to defeat his enemies. Finding daemon-swords, Blackstone-fortresses and other stuff. I know its supposed to be awesome, but he comes across to me as even more incompetent than before due to that.

It could also be that he knows that unless he can unify all of chaos forces in the EOT that he cannot win, there fore these "trinkets" (including blackstone fortresses, some of the most powerful objects in the galaxy) are stepping stones to achieving that goal. As a warlord, he must prove his power to those he leads, unlike order who must follow the chain of command.

Yeah thats supposed to be the story, yet it take him endlessly long to achieve it. The writers basically wrote themselves into a corner which seems bad no matter what they select. The best explanation is that time flows differently in the warp for the length of time, but even that seems cheap as far as explanations goes. Also he is a blood-tempered maniac even in their fluff, so I guess they weren't looking for the best general available as proven by his TT-rules.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Honestly I preferred Abbaddon as a failure as a general. I mean now he move around looking for trinkets like a bored player character in a video-game instead of even trying to defeat his enemies. Finding daemon-swords, Blackstone-fortresses and other stuff. I know its supposed to be awesome, but he comes across to me as even more incompetent than before due to that.

Abaddon's fluff always was he was collecting 'trinkets'. Getting the daemon sword in 1 to later be able to use it to permanently raze a strongpoint in the imperium's defences (the citadel of the Kromarch) in a later crusade (can't remember the number... looked it up, its 4) has always been part of the fluff. The only change is all of the crusades have now been detailed.

nareik wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Honestly I preferred Abbaddon as a failure as a general. I mean now he move around looking for trinkets like a bored player character in a video-game instead of even trying to defeat his enemies. Finding daemon-swords, Blackstone-fortresses and other stuff. I know its supposed to be awesome, but he comes across to me as even more incompetent than before due to that.

Abaddon's fluff always was he was collecting 'trinkets'. Getting the daemon sword in 1 to later be able to use it to permanently raze a strongpoint in the imperium's defences (the citadel of the Kromarch) in a later crusade (can't remember the number... looked it up, its 4) has always been part of the fluff. The only change is all of the crusades have now been detailed.

I covered that with my argument above.

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

nareik wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:


To me, perhaps with the benefit of perspective of where the fluff is today, the way the 2nd ed codex is setting the scene is Abaddon has been bringing together the forces of chaos to the point where he can launch the greatest and final black crusade, the one which will bring the imperium to it's knees.


"12 failures" is nothing to do with retcon. It is something the playerbase invented.

I agree. The previous 12 crusades were not endgame moves. They were accomplishing specific goals. Taking Terra was not the goal of any of the previous 12 crusades, so to say because he didn't do that, it was a failed mission would be like saying because the invasion of Normandy didn't immediately result in the fall of Berlin, it was a complete failure.

Exactly. Abaddon's mode of operation seems to be have a smoke screen of fake objectives, allowing him to accomplish his own secret objective (acquiring his daemonsword, finding the psyker on Pandorax, etc).

Honestly I preferred Abbaddon as a failure as a general. I mean now he move around looking for trinkets like a bored player character in a video-game instead of even trying to defeat his enemies. Finding daemon-swords, Blackstone-fortresses and other stuff. I know its supposed to be awesome, but he comes across to me as even more incompetent than before due to that.

It could also be that he knows that unless he can unify all of chaos forces in the EOT that he cannot win, there fore these "trinkets" (including blackstone fortresses, some of the most powerful objects in the galaxy) are stepping stones to achieving that goal. As a warlord, he must prove his power to those he leads, unlike order who must follow the chain of command.

Yeah thats supposed to be the story, yet it take him endlessly long to achieve it. The writers basically wrote themselves into a corner which seems bad no matter what they select. The best explanation is that time flows differently in the warp for the length of time, but even that seems cheap as far as explanations goes. Also he is a blood-tempered maniac even in their fluff, so I guess they weren't looking for the best general available as proven by his TT-rules.

But he inst a general, he is a Warlord. there is a difference. He ins't supposed ot be the most tactical or strategic mind on the EOT, he is supposed to be the strongest and carry the favor of the gods. that favor is demonstrated by his powers and possessions. Imagine how difficult it would be for Marneus Calgar if he had to prove to each UM successor chapter that he was worthy of leadership, or if Lord commander Macharius had to personally recruit every regiment of guard in his crusade by beating the feth out of each other regiment commander. Under those circumstances, any united effort by chaos at his direction is a testament to his strength as a warlord, the fact that he could broker alliances and lead a sizable force twelve previous times is a pretty good track record. It is what sets him apart from typhus or Ahriman, or eve Huron. Sure they can lead their own factional forces, but abbadon is the only one who has come close to uniting any of the multitude of factions, let alone all of them. to say because he hasn't actively won against a larger, more organized, better equipped force he is a failure is to vastly undercut his ability and gravitas.

 GKTiberius wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

nareik wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:


To me, perhaps with the benefit of perspective of where the fluff is today, the way the 2nd ed codex is setting the scene is Abaddon has been bringing together the forces of chaos to the point where he can launch the greatest and final black crusade, the one which will bring the imperium to it's knees.


"12 failures" is nothing to do with retcon. It is something the playerbase invented.

I agree. The previous 12 crusades were not endgame moves. They were accomplishing specific goals. Taking Terra was not the goal of any of the previous 12 crusades, so to say because he didn't do that, it was a failed mission would be like saying because the invasion of Normandy didn't immediately result in the fall of Berlin, it was a complete failure.

Exactly. Abaddon's mode of operation seems to be have a smoke screen of fake objectives, allowing him to accomplish his own secret objective (acquiring his daemonsword, finding the psyker on Pandorax, etc).

Honestly I preferred Abbaddon as a failure as a general. I mean now he move around looking for trinkets like a bored player character in a video-game instead of even trying to defeat his enemies. Finding daemon-swords, Blackstone-fortresses and other stuff. I know its supposed to be awesome, but he comes across to me as even more incompetent than before due to that.

It could also be that he knows that unless he can unify all of chaos forces in the EOT that he cannot win, there fore these "trinkets" (including blackstone fortresses, some of the most powerful objects in the galaxy) are stepping stones to achieving that goal. As a warlord, he must prove his power to those he leads, unlike order who must follow the chain of command.

Yeah thats supposed to be the story, yet it take him endlessly long to achieve it. The writers basically wrote themselves into a corner which seems bad no matter what they select. The best explanation is that time flows differently in the warp for the length of time, but even that seems cheap as far as explanations goes. Also he is a blood-tempered maniac even in their fluff, so I guess they weren't looking for the best general available as proven by his TT-rules.

But he inst a general, he is a Warlord. there is a difference. He ins't supposed ot be the most tactical or strategic mind on the EOT, he is supposed to be the strongest and carry the favor of the gods. that favor is demonstrated by his powers and possessions. Imagine how difficult it would be for Marneus Calgar if he had to prove to each UM successor chapter that he was worthy of leadership, or if Lord commander Macharius had to personally recruit every regiment of guard in his crusade by beating the feth out of each other regiment commander. Under those circumstances, any united effort by chaos at his direction is a testament to his strength as a warlord, the fact that he could broker alliances and lead a sizable force twelve previous times is a pretty good track record. It is what sets him apart from typhus or Ahriman, or eve Huron. Sure they can lead their own factional forces, but abbadon is the only one who has come close to uniting any of the multitude of factions, let alone all of them. to say because he hasn't actively won against a larger, more organized, better equipped force he is a failure is to vastly undercut his ability and gravitas.

He is betrayed by simple logistics and that his force is in nature chaotic, what is your argument BTW?

my argument is that to assess his lack of overall victory as his personal failure as many people have done is not only wrong it isn't fair to the character. It would be more accurate to say he hasn't achieved his goal yet, but he isn't a failure as a warlord. if he was that he would have been killed and replaced by now. plain and simple.

That aside, his legacy or impact on the galactic narrative is more substantial than any other non primarch, (ab)human.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
as an aside, i like the text pyramid thing.

 GKTiberius wrote:
my argument is that to assess his lack of overall victory as his personal failure as many people have done is not only wrong it isn't fair to the character. It would be more accurate to say he hasn't achieved his goal yet, but he isn't a failure as a warlord. if he was that he would have been killed and replaced by now. plain and simple.

That aside, his legacy or impact on the galactic narrative is more substantial than any other non primarch, (ab)human.

For me, is a great leader and warrior, he just doesn't cut it as an overall general as he fail despite even with the Planet killer to achieve everything. Sure some can be attributed to seasonal rot, but also Chaos is nothing if chaotic and even in the HH-novels its alluded to that they need humans. Plus even there he is a leader with flaws regarding his temper almost as bad as Eidolon.

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:
my argument is that to assess his lack of overall victory as his personal failure as many people have done is not only wrong it isn't fair to the character. It would be more accurate to say he hasn't achieved his goal yet, but he isn't a failure as a warlord. if he was that he would have been killed and replaced by now. plain and simple.

That aside, his legacy or impact on the galactic narrative is more substantial than any other non primarch, (ab)human.

For me, is a great leader and warrior, he just doesn't cut it as an overall general as he fail despite even with the Planet killer to achieve everything. Sure some can be attributed to seasonal rot, but also Chaos is nothing if chaotic and even in the HH-novels its alluded to that they need humans. Plus even there he is a leader with flaws regarding his temper almost as bad as Eidolon.

i fail to see how these things are his personal failings. I would understand your point of view if someone else could have done it better or could accomplish what he hasn't, but to say he is bad because he failed at a possibly un-doable task seems asinine. The same argument could be said of the inquisition for not rooting out the taint of chaos in the galaxy, or the Emperor of man kind for not completing the great crusade.

Im not saying he is amazing or worthy of veneration or the greatest thing since spiky sliced bread, but he isn't terrible and a total failure.

I honestly want to see from your point of view and want you to see it from mine. Please answer the three following questions and i think both things can be accomplished simultaneously:
The first I specifically about Abbadon and his accomplishments:
1. Who else in the entirety of the 40K Universe has accomplished as much with so little, and had to build every inch of what they have as opposed to having it handed to them by a fact of legacy or inheritance?
The other two are just in general about your view point on the requirements for greatness and success in this universe.
2. What is the yard stick by which we should measure success on the galactic scale?
3. What is your definition of a great warrior an leader?

The only answer that i could give to these three questions that come close to abaddon would be lord solar Marcharius.

 GKTiberius wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:
my argument is that to assess his lack of overall victory as his personal failure as many people have done is not only wrong it isn't fair to the character. It would be more accurate to say he hasn't achieved his goal yet, but he isn't a failure as a warlord. if he was that he would have been killed and replaced by now. plain and simple.

That aside, his legacy or impact on the galactic narrative is more substantial than any other non primarch, (ab)human.

For me, is a great leader and warrior, he just doesn't cut it as an overall general as he fail despite even with the Planet killer to achieve everything. Sure some can be attributed to seasonal rot, but also Chaos is nothing if chaotic and even in the HH-novels its alluded to that they need humans. Plus even there he is a leader with flaws regarding his temper almost as bad as Eidolon.

i fail to see how these things are his personal failings. I would understand your point of view if someone else could have done it better or could accomplish what he hasn't, but to say he is bad because he failed at a possibly un-doable task seems asinine. The same argument could be said of the inquisition for not rooting out the taint of chaos in the galaxy, or the Emperor of man kind for not completing the great crusade.

Im not saying he is amazing or worthy of veneration or the greatest thing since spiky sliced bread, but he isn't terrible and a total failure.

I honestly want to see from your point of view and want you to see it from mine. Please answer the three following questions and i think both things can be accomplished simultaneously:
The first I specifically about Abbadon and his accomplishments:
1. Who else in the entirety of the 40K Universe has accomplished as much with so little, and had to build every inch of what they have as opposed to having it handed to them by a fact of legacy or inheritance?
The other two are just in general about your view point on the requirements for greatness and success in this universe.
2. What is the yard stick by which we should measure success on the galactic scale?
3. What is your definition of a great warrior an leader?

The only answer that i could give to these three questions that come close to abaddon would be lord solar Marcharius.

Honestly I just think Abbaddon gets screwed by simple logistics mainly, and he was always a sub-par geneal as point one. He inherited the largest or second largest legion of superhumans and still fraks up.

Getting past a stumbling-block would be a start. But he is hindered a lot by like the mentioned logistics.

Abbaddon is a great leader and warrior, backed by fluff heis not a great supreme commander.

I would agree with that assessment.

 GKTiberius wrote:
I would agree with that assessment.

Thank you.

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:
my argument is that to assess his lack of overall victory as his personal failure as many people have done is not only wrong it isn't fair to the character. It would be more accurate to say he hasn't achieved his goal yet, but he isn't a failure as a warlord. if he was that he would have been killed and replaced by now. plain and simple.

That aside, his legacy or impact on the galactic narrative is more substantial than any other non primarch, (ab)human.

For me, is a great leader and warrior, he just doesn't cut it as an overall general as he fail despite even with the Planet killer to achieve everything. Sure some can be attributed to seasonal rot, but also Chaos is nothing if chaotic and even in the HH-novels its alluded to that they need humans. Plus even there he is a leader with flaws regarding his temper almost as bad as Eidolon.

i fail to see how these things are his personal failings. I would understand your point of view if someone else could have done it better or could accomplish what he hasn't, but to say he is bad because he failed at a possibly un-doable task seems asinine. The same argument could be said of the inquisition for not rooting out the taint of chaos in the galaxy, or the Emperor of man kind for not completing the great crusade.

Im not saying he is amazing or worthy of veneration or the greatest thing since spiky sliced bread, but he isn't terrible and a total failure.

I honestly want to see from your point of view and want you to see it from mine. Please answer the three following questions and i think both things can be accomplished simultaneously:
The first I specifically about Abbadon and his accomplishments:
1. Who else in the entirety of the 40K Universe has accomplished as much with so little, and had to build every inch of what they have as opposed to having it handed to them by a fact of legacy or inheritance?
The other two are just in general about your view point on the requirements for greatness and success in this universe.
2. What is the yard stick by which we should measure success on the galactic scale?
3. What is your definition of a great warrior an leader?

The only answer that i could give to these three questions that come close to abaddon would be lord solar Marcharius.

Honestly I just think Abbaddon gets screwed by simple logistics mainly, and he was always a sub-par geneal as point one. He inherited the largest or second largest legion of superhumans and still fraks up.

Getting past a stumbling-block would be a start. But he is hindered a lot by like the mentioned logistics.

Abbaddon is a great leader and warrior, backed by fluff heis not a great supreme commander.

He didn't actually inherit the Sons of Horus though. After the Heresy he went on a voyage of personal discovery (gap year) and when he returned the legion was broken and the other legions, lead by the Emperor's Children, had eyes on their destruction.

Abaddon had to take the legion by subverting or destroying by force it's remaining figure heads. He didn't actually default to Legion commander on account of being the first company captain.

When he took over the legion it was a fraction of his previous size and required extensive rebuilding.

Who else in the entirety of the 40K Universe has accomplished as much with so little, and had to build every inch of what they have as opposed to having it handed to them by a fact of legacy or inheritance?

That's the main point. He didn't take over the legion at all.

The Black Legion and the Sons of Horus aren't the same entities. The Sons of Horus had functionally ceased to exist with the fall of Lupercallia and the theft of Horus' corpse, and whilst many of the survivors ended up in the black legion, many (most?) of them aren't former sons. Certainly in their initial assault on the Emperor's Children they are a mixed bag of ex-justaerin, world eaters, thousand sons and emperor's children.

Abbadon's big legacy (to date, anyway) is that he's built his own damn legion from scratch.

locarno24 wrote:

Who else in the entirety of the 40K Universe has accomplished as much with so little, and had to build every inch of what they have as opposed to having it handed to them by a fact of legacy or inheritance?

That's the main point. He didn't take over the legion at all.

The Black Legion and the Sons of Horus aren't the same entities. The Sons of Horus had functionally ceased to exist with the fall of Lupercallia and the theft of Horus' corpse, and whilst many of the survivors ended up in the black legion, many (most?) of them aren't former sons. Certainly in their initial assault on the Emperor's Children they are a mixed bag of ex-justaerin, world eaters, thousand sons and emperor's children.

Abbadon's big legacy (to date, anyway) is that he's built his own damn legion from scratch.

Agreed, that is what I am saying. He built everything he has to work with and as a result, any activity outside of the eye with him at the head of a large force is a pretty impressive accomplismnet

Just a point of contention against the pro-Abaddon side of the argument; he hasn't united all the legions every crusade; often it is not more than himself, some carefully chosen warriors and maybe a second traitor legion.

But those excursions have always been more than just his black legion. whether it is another warband, a daemon host or even just a horde of cultists, there are disparate groups he brings together.

Came here for failbaddon the armless, was not disappointed.

Abaddon to me seems like hes supposed to have tactical prowess, combat power, and the forces of chaos with him.

But he just isn't on the face smashing level of the Primarchs.

Hell, they are all have not returned yet to save the Imperium yet, so obviously there are far greater threats than Abaddon out there.

If Abaddon would force Leman Russ, Vulkan, or the Lion out of retirement, then maybe.

I'd take Sly Marbo over Abaddon.

aw_man wrote:


If Abaddon would force Leman Russ, Vulkan, or the Lion out of retirement, then maybe.

Except they are not in "retirement". Russ went onto the Eye and nothing has been seen of him since, Vulkan is missing and rumored to be the ccaptive of some necron or another, and Lion is in stasis barely even alive, iirc. If they could come back, they would have.

aw_man wrote:
Came here for failbaddon the armless, was not disappointed.

Abaddon to me seems like hes supposed to have tactical prowess, combat power, and the forces of chaos with him.

But he just isn't on the face smashing level of the Primarchs.

Hell, they are all have not returned yet to save the Imperium yet, so obviously there are far greater threats than Abaddon out there.

If Abaddon would force Leman Russ, Vulkan, or the Lion out of retirement, then maybe.

I'd take Sly Marbo over Abaddon.

I wonder how Vulkan can do anything if he is part of museum's exhibition and nothing else, and sudden return of Leman Russ would be the most idiotic thing that gw have done.

Still I am chaos player and I don't see abadon as aspiring or interesting character at all.

 Whiskered wrote:

aw_man wrote:
Came here for failbaddon the armless, was not disappointed.

Abaddon to me seems like hes supposed to have tactical prowess, combat power, and the forces of chaos with him.

But he just isn't on the face smashing level of the Primarchs.

Hell, they are all have not returned yet to save the Imperium yet, so obviously there are far greater threats than Abaddon out there.

If Abaddon would force Leman Russ, Vulkan, or the Lion out of retirement, then maybe.

I'd take Sly Marbo over Abaddon.

I wonder how Vulkan can do anything if he is part of museum's exhibition and nothing else, and sudden return of Leman Russ would be the most idiotic thing that gw have done.

Still I am chaos player and I don't see abadon as aspiring or interesting character at all.

Isn't that a blood Angel? There were Trazyn who somehow got away with telling Sicarus he wanted Robute Guilliman as a museum-piece because he would look better there. I must admit I so would like to look on Sicarus' face when he was told that.

For Vulkan I thought he was in Commorragh providing entertainment.

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 Whiskered wrote:

aw_man wrote:
Came here for failbaddon the armless, was not disappointed.

Abaddon to me seems like hes supposed to have tactical prowess, combat power, and the forces of chaos with him.

But he just isn't on the face smashing level of the Primarchs.

Hell, they are all have not returned yet to save the Imperium yet, so obviously there are far greater threats than Abaddon out there.

If Abaddon would force Leman Russ, Vulkan, or the Lion out of retirement, then maybe.

I'd take Sly Marbo over Abaddon.

I wonder how Vulkan can do anything if he is part of museum's exhibition and nothing else, and sudden return of Leman Russ would be the most idiotic thing that gw have done.

Still I am chaos player and I don't see abadon as aspiring or interesting character at all.

Isn't that a blood Angel? There were Trazyn who somehow got away with telling Sicarus he wanted Robute Guilliman as a museum-piece because he would look better there. I must admit I so would like to look on Sicarus' face when he was told that.

For Vulkan I thought he was in Commorragh providing entertainment.

If I recall properly, one of older necron codices mentioned Vulkan.
This makes me think.
Wouldn't all that stuff that abandon have accumulated would be good addition to said museum?

I think that the one in Commorragh was The Great Khan, or whatever his name is.. it escapes me at the moment.

I thought it was Corax, he is also MIA. And good point Abbaddon with his trinkets would make a nice addition for Trazyn.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
I thought it was Corax, he is also MIA. And good point Abbaddon with his trinkets would make a nice addition for Trazyn.

Corax went into the Eye of Terror, so its unlikely to be him. Lord Blackscale is right, Jaghatai Khan was last seen chasing down Eldar raiders into the Webway so he'd the most likely candidate to have been captured by the Dark Eldar.

So what other marine, chaos or loyalist, can compare with Abbadon? Either through military might, accomplishments, or personal strength of arm? The Ultra-pimp Calgar? He as a ridiculous enough model to compete with Abby, that's certain.

 Lord Blackscale wrote:
So what other marine, chaos or loyalist, can compare with Abbadon? Either through military might, accomplishments, or personal strength of arm? The Ultra-pimp Calgar? He as a ridiculous enough model to compete with Abby, that's certain.

Doesn't they all (the Chapter Masters) have ridiculous models?

 Lord Blackscale wrote:
So what other marine, chaos or loyalist, can compare with Abbadon? Either through military might, accomplishments, or personal strength of arm? The Ultra-pimp Calgar? He as a ridiculous enough model to compete with Abby, that's certain.

Draigo with his hand tied behind his back could beat Failbaddon even if his arms hadn't fallen off.