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The Citadel is clearly alien made though, not sure how the Imperium would feel about using it.

 Hoyt wrote:
The Citadel is clearly alien made though, not sure how the Imperium would feel about using it.

They used the blackstone fortresses which were alien made. The imperium is no stranger to using xenos tech. Hell the deathwatch can equip eldar weaponry.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Hoyt wrote:
The Citadel is clearly alien made though, not sure how the Imperium would feel about using it.

They used the blackstone fortresses which were alien made. The imperium is no stranger to using xenos tech. Hell the deathwatch can equip eldar weaponry.

True, though aren't the blackstones origins unknown to the Imperium? They might just assume they were human made in the Dark Age of Technology.

 Hoyt wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Hoyt wrote:
The Citadel is clearly alien made though, not sure how the Imperium would feel about using it.

They used the blackstone fortresses which were alien made. The imperium is no stranger to using xenos tech. Hell the deathwatch can equip eldar weaponry.

True, though aren't the blackstones origins unknown to the Imperium? They might just assume they were human made in the Dark Age of Technology.

blackstone fortresses were alien in nature, the imperium didn't assume that at all. THey were like "Oh cool a free ship!"

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Hoyt wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Hoyt wrote:
The Citadel is clearly alien made though, not sure how the Imperium would feel about using it.

They used the blackstone fortresses which were alien made. The imperium is no stranger to using xenos tech. Hell the deathwatch can equip eldar weaponry.

True, though aren't the blackstones origins unknown to the Imperium? They might just assume they were human made in the Dark Age of Technology.

blackstone fortresses were alien in nature, the imperium didn't assume that at all. THey were like "Oh cool a free ship!"

Hmmm, in that case, the Imperium would probably nick the Citadel and strip out pretty much everything and turn it into a fortress/naval resupply yard with which to use to conquer the rest of the ME races (assuming the tau don't assimilate the turians first).

 Hoyt wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Hoyt wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Hoyt wrote:
The Citadel is clearly alien made though, not sure how the Imperium would feel about using it.

They used the blackstone fortresses which were alien made. The imperium is no stranger to using xenos tech. Hell the deathwatch can equip eldar weaponry.

True, though aren't the blackstones origins unknown to the Imperium? They might just assume they were human made in the Dark Age of Technology.

blackstone fortresses were alien in nature, the imperium didn't assume that at all. THey were like "Oh cool a free ship!"

Hmmm, in that case, the Imperium would probably nick the Citadel and strip out pretty much everything and turn it into a fortress/naval resupply yard with which to use to conquer the rest of the ME races (assuming the tau don't assimilate the turians first).

The tau would be destroyed in the ship to ship combat. Remember the crusade against the tau? you know the patehtically small fleet that almost destroyed the tau?

And the small titan legion that almost wiped out the tau as well?

Yeah I remember that.

The tau are pathetic in the eyes of the imperium.

@Hoyt
Mate I think you misunderstood, I said that the ship's were used as FTL missiles, their FTL drives are capable of reaching those kinds of speeds, well the smallest ones anyway. Which would put Imperial warships at a severe disadvantage, why?

They could sit fairly far outside the reach of Imperial weapons range and ram them with that kind of force before they ever knew what hit them. On top of all that, you do remember Void Shields rely upon the warp, at least partly in order to work.

How would they work without the warp?

And stated before, it would take literally eons to move without the warp unless they figured out how to integrate Mass Effect FTL drives into their ships. Which would take a while, since the Admech takes their sweet time.

@Slayer-Fan123
Yeah that would be funny to watch, the only drawback is that Elcor move very slowly, but they'd be packing a whole squad's worth of firepower. Varren may do the trick though, they grow up to very large sizes and can work in fairly harsh environments.

Lets not forget Vorcha breed like rats and can be used as cheap infantry, the Tau could easily exploit that.

In the Taros Campaign the Tau managed to destroy several Imperial Navy vessels, something the Turians cannot do. The Tau Navy maybe weak by 40k standards but its 40k.

The Tau Navy would steamroll Reapers. The Turian Hierarchy is nothing to them. Though on the ground they would inflict negligible casualties on the Tau, though with Tau orbital supremacy the Turians would be hard pressed to organize an effective defence of their worlds.

Sources:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Taros_Campaign
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/reapers-mass-effect-vs-tau-empire.278606/


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Evident-Disaster wrote:
@Hoyt
Mate I think you misunderstood, I said that the ship's were used as FTL missiles, their FTL drives are capable of reaching those kinds of speeds, well the smallest ones anyway. Which would put Imperial warships at a severe disadvantage, why?

They could sit fairly far outside the reach of Imperial weapons range and ram them with that kind of force before they ever knew what hit them. On top of all that, you do remember Void Shields rely upon the warp, at least partly in order to work.

How would they work without the warp?

And stated before, it would take literally eons to move without the warp unless they figured out how to integrate Mass Effect FTL drives into their ships. Which would take a while, since the Admech takes their sweet time.

@Slayer-Fan123
Yeah that would be funny to watch, the only drawback is that Elcor move very slowly, but they'd be packing a whole squad's worth of firepower. Varren may do the trick though, they grow up to very large sizes and can work in fairly harsh environments.

Lets not forget Vorcha breed like rats and can be used as cheap infantry, the Tau could easily exploit that.

Forgot the part about Void Shields using the warp, even without them Imperial ships require many megatons of firepower to bring down even without shields, something ME ships lowly kiloton weapons couldn't do.

About the FTL missiles, this is clearly stated by ME3's codex as being completely impossible: http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_Reaper_War#Desperate_Measures

Also eezo is not required to use Mass Relays.

Really? What the heck?
Before they mentioned jack squat about that.

i really hate it when they pull something like that,

 Evident-Disaster wrote:
Really? What the heck?
Before they mentioned jack squat about that.

i really hate it when they pull something like that,

Yeah, back when Mass Effect 3 came out and it was said it was impossible to beat the Reapers conventionally, I always wondered why they couldn't just weaponise their ships FTL.

then I looked it up and found that wiki page

It makes sense, Bioware would want to avoid people pointing out a massive logical fallacy, and then having a lot of people asking why the heck they didn't figure out a way to beat the Reapers using ships as weapons.

Though I am curious, they did have a means of getting past the safety feature before didn't they before?

Only thing I could find about weaponized FTL was this;

July 2010 - Week Five

07/26/2010 - Hierarchy Officials Destroy Weaponized FTL Plotters

“Citadel Council observers were on hand in the city of Vallum today as Hierarchy forces destroyed the captured, weaponized FTL plotters found a month ago (Earth Standard) in the Diluvian city of Madra. "These are symbols of a type of war no civilized galaxy wants and no civilized galaxy should suffer," said Taetrian Primarch Idus Valen, who was given the honor of detonating the plotters at a bomb range at Fort Urix. Asked if the plotters' creator, Vamire Squaron, was the only person with the knowledge and intent to create weapons such as these, Valen seemed to agree but gave a noncommittal response. Asked how the plotters represented a type of war different than one involving conventional weapons of mass destruction such as a dreadnought's main gun, Valen responded, "I'm sorry, but that's all the time we have."”

It seemed like some sort of FTL bomb to use on a city, probably not much more powerful than a nuke though.

Source: http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Cerberus_Daily_News_-_July_2010

Well actually we don't know what void shields do.

A Void Shield is a special form of gravitic or electrically-charged energy field employed by the Imperium of Man's various military forces to protect super-heavy vehicles like starships and Titans from enemy attacks. Void Shields use Imperial Warp-based technology to displace ranged attacks by subtly distorting the localized space-time around the point of impact. It is unclear whether Void Shields neutralize the projectile or energy beam, transport it into the Warp, or whether they use some other method to displace the damaging force of a physical attack upon the vehicle or vessel. Void Shields act in the same manner as Ork Kustom Force Fields, though Ork energy fields are far less reliable and tend to be inoperable once downed. Inversely, Imperial Void Shields can be re-activated after being collapsed, even during battle. In combat, Void Shields do not protect from close combat assaults or other vehicles moving through them to then attack the shielded vehicle or vessel.

Its just a field, it may utltize the warp or it might be a field that is erected by electricity and or some other type of creation.

But still the imperium's war vessels have adamantium, cermite and several other things that make their vessels nigh invincible. Even if a vehicle is 'stealthed' as long as it is visible to the naked eye, the imperium could devastate it. Surprise attacks on an imperial fleet is nigh impossible for the ME universe.

Plus the only thing I can think of that actually uses Warp energies is the gellar field.

Void Shields are used to protect every member onboard their ship from solar radiation and the like.

Its a dual purpose.

Saying Warp Doesn't work here isn't really an excuse. The Warp is everywhere, its an alternate dimension, you really can't get rid of it. The warp is basically a parallel dimension that ships use in the imperium to get place to place.

Warp based technology is common in the imperium. Something the ME universe would no doubt be interested in how it works. There are no pyskers powering these ships. But all imperial vechiles use some sort of warp power.
In fact most of 40k has its basis around the warp. The Tau, The Imperium, Eldar, Orks, and even the Tyranids. The warp is central to their technologies.

If they don't have void shields the tau, eldar, humans, space marines, orks hell every other race excluding the necrons and tyranids would die from solar radiation before the crusades could even begin.

The one interesting thing is that the ground war for these things is definately one sided, the Imperium wins hands down against what ever the systems alliance throws at the Imperial Guard. i wonder how they would react to a warlord titan.

Though the images I have that are conjured up are reapers vs Warlord Titans, Titans firing inferno cannons at them and the reapers being literally melted like wax.

 Asherian Command wrote:

The tau would be destroyed in the ship to ship combat. Remember the crusade against the tau? you know the patehtically small fleet that almost destroyed the tau?

And the small titan legion that almost wiped out the tau as well?

Yeah I remember that.

The tau are pathetic in the eyes of the imperium.

You appear to be thinking of the Damocles crusade, instead of the more recent taros campaign. During the taros campaign, the tau unveiled stuff like the tiger shark ax-1-0, with guns powerful enough to one-shot titans. And that was also when their new fleet was used, which are more than a match to the imperial vessels While the imperium lost 2 cruisers, a light cruiser and 8 escorts, the tau lost one carrier and 8 escorts.

Now the tau are still tiny to the imperium, but regularly defeat imperial forces much greater in size.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

The tau would be destroyed in the ship to ship combat. Remember the crusade against the tau? you know the patehtically small fleet that almost destroyed the tau?

And the small titan legion that almost wiped out the tau as well?

Yeah I remember that.

The tau are pathetic in the eyes of the imperium.

You appear to be thinking of the Damocles crusade, instead of the more recent taros campaign. During the taros campaign, the tau unveiled stuff like the tiger shark ax-1-0, with guns powerful enough to one-shot titans. And that was also when their new fleet was used, which are more than a match to the imperial vessels While the imperium lost 2 cruisers, a light cruiser and 8 escorts, the tau lost one carrier and 8 escorts.

Now the tau are still tiny to the imperium, but regularly defeat imperial forces much greater in size.

Taros Campagin ugh. The one where it was only imperial guard and a small titan legion? Right?

Then the Ziest campagin where the space marines almost annihilated the Tau and reclaimed half the worlds the tau conquered.

The Taros Campagin if I remember right was a failure in that it wasn't a great engagement for the imperium and was half cocked and unprepared, and it didn't have any members of the Damocles crusade joining in the combat.

So I think it was a slaughter only because there were no veterans in that engagement.

@Asherian Command
Not necessarily, the multiverse is massive, this can justify why this particular universe has no 'warp', though it has something different, not something unlike the warp, but different fundamentally it doesn't come off as the same thing.

Well, that's my reason, in honesty it was mainly to balance out factors like warp demons and so forth from completely wrecking utter havoc and turning Mass Effect into an utter hellhole.

That and trying to make a scenario which doesn't automatically lead to total annihilation flat out, like with virtually everything with Vs 40k usually does. There's just no substitute, the whole universe of 40k is unbelievably overpowered as anyone wants it to be. Well in my honest opinion, that's usually from reading all kinds of novels, others are more humble about things, and some are not.

Running this down by the established codex does give some kind of basis at which I can draw comparison, but in the end it still feels like this one falls once more in favour of 40k. Though I don't think Mass Effect would simply succumb to the Imperium and other factions quite so easily.

Except for the Necrons, I'll give credit to those fellows, they really know how to do damage.

Also could someone answer about my biotic questions from above? I really would like to hear opinions about the pros and cons of biotics within Mass Effect to Psykers in 40k. Well more like what one would react to the other and such, it's an interesting thing I haven't quite figured out.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

The tau would be destroyed in the ship to ship combat. Remember the crusade against the tau? you know the patehtically small fleet that almost destroyed the tau?

And the small titan legion that almost wiped out the tau as well?

Yeah I remember that.

The tau are pathetic in the eyes of the imperium.

You appear to be thinking of the Damocles crusade, instead of the more recent taros campaign. During the taros campaign, the tau unveiled stuff like the tiger shark ax-1-0, with guns powerful enough to one-shot titans. And that was also when their new fleet was used, which are more than a match to the imperial vessels While the imperium lost 2 cruisers, a light cruiser and 8 escorts, the tau lost one carrier and 8 escorts.

Now the tau are still tiny to the imperium, but regularly defeat imperial forces much greater in size.

The Tau carrier was in fact a Custodian-class Battleship (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Custodian-class_Battleship), the most powerful vessel the Tau can field. It managed to destroy a Lunar-Class Cruiser, one of the most common Imperial warships (six hundred in service with the Imperium in the Segmentum Obscurus alone, probably more ships than the entire Tau navy has at it's disposal). Other than that ship(which isn't very impressive), Tau vessels are completely outmatched in space and would get slaughtered in open combat, against a proper Imperial fleet.

The Tau won the Taros campaign because of poor choices on the Imperium's part, nothing more. The only reason their hasn't been a proper crusade mounted against the Tau is because the other threats the Imperium face are far greater than a tiny Xeno empire taking some border worlds.

Though by Mass Effect standards the Tau would crush the Reapers, nevermind the Citadel races.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

The tau would be destroyed in the ship to ship combat. Remember the crusade against the tau? you know the patehtically small fleet that almost destroyed the tau?

And the small titan legion that almost wiped out the tau as well?

Yeah I remember that.

The tau are pathetic in the eyes of the imperium.

You appear to be thinking of the Damocles crusade, instead of the more recent taros campaign. During the taros campaign, the tau unveiled stuff like the tiger shark ax-1-0, with guns powerful enough to one-shot titans. And that was also when their new fleet was used, which are more than a match to the imperial vessels While the imperium lost 2 cruisers, a light cruiser and 8 escorts, the tau lost one carrier and 8 escorts.

Now the tau are still tiny to the imperium, but regularly defeat imperial forces much greater in size.

Taros Campagin ugh. The one where it was only imperial guard and a small titan legion? Right?

Then the Ziest campagin where the space marines almost annihilated the Tau and reclaimed half the worlds the tau conquered.

Ah the zeist campaign, which was a diversion by shadowsun. She took the opportunity with the imperium distracted, to claim even more worlds. The reading in the tau codex is:

The space marines drive the tau from many worlds in the sector, and while losses are regrettable, the gains elsewhere are on such a scale that, even to the causality conscious tau, shadowsun's diversion seems not just acceptable, but shrewd.

And I'll remind you that during the Taros campaign, there were four companies of marines. And we have no record of the size of the titian legion in the Damocles crusade, only that it existed.

 Evident-Disaster wrote:
@Asherian Command
Not necessarily, the multiverse is massive, this can justify why this particular universe has no 'warp', though it has something different, not something unlike the warp, but different fundamentally it doesn't come off as the same thing.

Well, that's my reason, in honesty it was mainly to balance out factors like warp demons and so forth from completely wrecking utter havoc and turning Mass Effect into an utter hellhole.

That and trying to make a scenario which doesn't automatically lead to total annihilation flat out, like with virtually everything with Vs 40k usually does. There's just no substitute, the whole universe of 40k is unbelievably overpowered as anyone wants it to be. Well in my honest opinion, that's usually from reading all kinds of novels, others are more humble about things, and some are not.

Running this down by the established codex does give some kind of basis at which I can draw comparison, but in the end it still feels like this one falls once more in favour of 40k. Though I don't think Mass Effect would simply succumb to the Imperium and other factions quite so easily.

Except for the Necrons, I'll give credit to those fellows, they really know how to do damage.

Also could someone answer about my biotic questions from above? I really would like to hear opinions about the pros and cons of biotics within Mass Effect to Psykers in 40k. Well more like what one would react to the other and such, it's an interesting thing I haven't quite figured out.

Biotics don't have risk all the dangers of the Warp but they are nowhere near the potential of Psykers, the abilities of the more powerful psykers in 40k would seem godlike to the ME races. Also according the Lore (not gameplay) biotics have to consume a lot of calories just to let off a handful of powers, not something you can rely on regulary.

 Hoyt wrote:


The Tau carrier was in fact a Custodian-class Battleship (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Custodian-class_Battleship), the most powerful vessel the Tau can field. It managed to destroy a Lunar-Class Cruiser, one of the most common Imperial warships (six hundred in service with the Imperium in the Segmentum Obscurus alone, probably more ships than the entire Tau navy has at it's disposal). Other than that ship(which isn't very impressive), Tau vessels are completely outmatched in space and would get slaughtered in open combat, against a proper Imperial fleet.

The Tau won the Taros campaign because of poor choices on the Imperium's part, nothing more. The only reason their hasn't been a proper crusade mounted against the Tau is because the other threats the Imperium face are far greater than a tiny Xeno empire taking some border worlds.

Though by Mass Effect standards the Tau would crush the Reapers, nevermind the Citadel races.

That's because the tau are tiny compared to the imperium. A "proper" imperial fleet is probably 3x the size of a tau one with some ships that the tau have no equivalent for.. But that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about equivalent ships. Tau cruisers are a match for imperial cruisers, that sort of thing.


I'm not arguing that the tau can stand against the might of the imperium, far from it (I even say they can't in my original post), I'm simply disagreeing that the tau are as outmatched as asherian makes them out to be.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Hoyt wrote:


The Tau carrier was in fact a Custodian-class Battleship (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Custodian-class_Battleship), the most powerful vessel the Tau can field. It managed to destroy a Lunar-Class Cruiser, one of the most common Imperial warships (six hundred in service with the Imperium in the Segmentum Obscurus alone, probably more ships than the entire Tau navy has at it's disposal). Other than that ship(which isn't very impressive), Tau vessels are completely outmatched in space and would get slaughtered in open combat, against a proper Imperial fleet.

The Tau won the Taros campaign because of poor choices on the Imperium's part, nothing more. The only reason their hasn't been a proper crusade mounted against the Tau is because the other threats the Imperium face are far greater than a tiny Xeno empire taking some border worlds.

Though by Mass Effect standards the Tau would crush the Reapers, nevermind the Citadel races.

That's because the tau are tiny compared to the imperium. A "proper" imperial fleet is probably 3x the size of a tau one with some ships that the tau have no equivalent for.. But that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about equivalent ships. Tau cruisers are a match for imperial cruisers, that sort of thing.


I'm not arguing that the tau can stand against the might of the imperium, far from it (I even say they can't in my original post), I'm simply disagreeing that the tau are as outmatched as asherian makes them out to be.

Most Tau ships cannot match the Imperial equivalent though, the only known ship is the Custodian-class Battleship, which is a match for one of the weakest Imperial cruisers, the Lunar-Class.

 Evident-Disaster wrote:
@Asherian Command
Not necessarily, the multiverse is massive, this can justify why this particular universe has no 'warp', though it has something different, not something unlike the warp, but different fundamentally it doesn't come off as the same thing.

Well, that's my reason, in honesty it was mainly to balance out factors like warp demons and so forth from completely wrecking utter havoc and turning Mass Effect into an utter hellhole.

That and trying to make a scenario which doesn't automatically lead to total annihilation flat out, like with virtually everything with Vs 40k usually does. There's just no substitute, the whole universe of 40k is unbelievably overpowered as anyone wants it to be. Well in my honest opinion, that's usually from reading all kinds of novels, others are more humble about things, and some are not.

Running this down by the established codex does give some kind of basis at which I can draw comparison, but in the end it still feels like this one falls once more in favour of 40k. Though I don't think Mass Effect would simply succumb to the Imperium and other factions quite so easily.

Except for the Necrons, I'll give credit to those fellows, they really know how to do damage.

Also could someone answer about my biotic questions from above? I really would like to hear opinions about the pros and cons of biotics within Mass Effect to Psykers in 40k. Well more like what one would react to the other and such, it's an interesting thing I haven't quite figured out.

Easy pros: the Biotics are easy to control and can be augmented rather easily. It is not always naturally occuring and can be easily put under control. Unlike pyschic powers they allow for more easier control and speed, cannot be disrupted.

Cons: not as powerful, set power limit, knowledge of powers do not grant you an advantage, powers do not grow unless artificially induced, powers can easily be out done, bullets still can kill you. Do not conjure up powers beyond imagination, rather limited.

 Hoyt wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Hoyt wrote:


The Tau carrier was in fact a Custodian-class Battleship (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Custodian-class_Battleship), the most powerful vessel the Tau can field. It managed to destroy a Lunar-Class Cruiser, one of the most common Imperial warships (six hundred in service with the Imperium in the Segmentum Obscurus alone, probably more ships than the entire Tau navy has at it's disposal). Other than that ship(which isn't very impressive), Tau vessels are completely outmatched in space and would get slaughtered in open combat, against a proper Imperial fleet.

The Tau won the Taros campaign because of poor choices on the Imperium's part, nothing more. The only reason their hasn't been a proper crusade mounted against the Tau is because the other threats the Imperium face are far greater than a tiny Xeno empire taking some border worlds.

Though by Mass Effect standards the Tau would crush the Reapers, nevermind the Citadel races.

That's because the tau are tiny compared to the imperium. A "proper" imperial fleet is probably 3x the size of a tau one with some ships that the tau have no equivalent for.. But that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about equivalent ships. Tau cruisers are a match for imperial cruisers, that sort of thing.


I'm not arguing that the tau can stand against the might of the imperium, far from it (I even say they can't in my original post), I'm simply disagreeing that the tau are as outmatched as asherian makes them out to be.

Most Tau ships cannot match the Imperial equivalent though, the only known ship is the Custodian-class Battleship, which is a match for one of the weakest Imperial cruisers, the Lunar-Class.

And where do you get that information, may I ask?

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Hoyt wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Hoyt wrote:


The Tau carrier was in fact a Custodian-class Battleship (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Custodian-class_Battleship), the most powerful vessel the Tau can field. It managed to destroy a Lunar-Class Cruiser, one of the most common Imperial warships (six hundred in service with the Imperium in the Segmentum Obscurus alone, probably more ships than the entire Tau navy has at it's disposal). Other than that ship(which isn't very impressive), Tau vessels are completely outmatched in space and would get slaughtered in open combat, against a proper Imperial fleet.

The Tau won the Taros campaign because of poor choices on the Imperium's part, nothing more. The only reason their hasn't been a proper crusade mounted against the Tau is because the other threats the Imperium face are far greater than a tiny Xeno empire taking some border worlds.

Though by Mass Effect standards the Tau would crush the Reapers, nevermind the Citadel races.

That's because the tau are tiny compared to the imperium. A "proper" imperial fleet is probably 3x the size of a tau one with some ships that the tau have no equivalent for.. But that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about equivalent ships. Tau cruisers are a match for imperial cruisers, that sort of thing.


I'm not arguing that the tau can stand against the might of the imperium, far from it (I even say they can't in my original post), I'm simply disagreeing that the tau are as outmatched as asherian makes them out to be.

Most Tau ships cannot match the Imperial equivalent though, the only known ship is the Custodian-class Battleship, which is a match for one of the weakest Imperial cruisers, the Lunar-Class.

And where do you get that information, may I ask?

Thats from battlefleet gothic.

Also remember the Ziest campagin was considered a success the whole idea that shadow sun out witted Cato Scarius who is hundreds of years older than her is hilarious though.

Also the ziest campagin thing to quote the wiki

By this time, the Ultramarines were no longer the only Space Marine forces in the assault. Forces from the Night Watch, Halo Dragons, Silver Skulls, Sable Swords, Crimson Fists, Iron Lords, Aurora Chapter, Eagle Warriors and the Knights of the Raven, as well as many others, had all joined the Ultramarines in the attack on Augura. Despite the advanced technology, Battlesuits and weaponry, the Tau had no hope for defeating such a huge combined force of Space Marines. Augura's fortresses, shipyards and weapons factories were destroyed and the Tau expansion ended with the Tau falling back to protect more secure territory.[1]
Unfortunately, though the Space Marines had won the war, it was not possible to sanction a thrust into Tau held space as the individual Space Marine forces were required elsewhere in the galaxy and it was only reluctantly that Sicarius gave control of the defence back to the planetary governors.[1]

The Ziest sector was very important and was a tactical victory. The tau took planets no doubt but they were not very important nor where they forgeworlds who often blow themselves up so the tau can't get their technology.

That whole Shadowsun plan soundslike a stupid strategic move. Oh lets attack this sector. Wait nevermind, lets attack these other sectors that are more susceptible.

I am pretty sure the tau sixth edition fluff is pretty dumb.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Hoyt wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Hoyt wrote:


The Tau carrier was in fact a Custodian-class Battleship (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Custodian-class_Battleship), the most powerful vessel the Tau can field. It managed to destroy a Lunar-Class Cruiser, one of the most common Imperial warships (six hundred in service with the Imperium in the Segmentum Obscurus alone, probably more ships than the entire Tau navy has at it's disposal). Other than that ship(which isn't very impressive), Tau vessels are completely outmatched in space and would get slaughtered in open combat, against a proper Imperial fleet.

The Tau won the Taros campaign because of poor choices on the Imperium's part, nothing more. The only reason their hasn't been a proper crusade mounted against the Tau is because the other threats the Imperium face are far greater than a tiny Xeno empire taking some border worlds.

Though by Mass Effect standards the Tau would crush the Reapers, nevermind the Citadel races.

That's because the tau are tiny compared to the imperium. A "proper" imperial fleet is probably 3x the size of a tau one with some ships that the tau have no equivalent for.. But that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about equivalent ships. Tau cruisers are a match for imperial cruisers, that sort of thing.


I'm not arguing that the tau can stand against the might of the imperium, far from it (I even say they can't in my original post), I'm simply disagreeing that the tau are as outmatched as asherian makes them out to be.

Most Tau ships cannot match the Imperial equivalent though, the only known ship is the Custodian-class Battleship, which is a match for one of the weakest Imperial cruisers, the Lunar-Class.

And where do you get that information, may I ask?

The Battle for the Taros System, the Custodian-Class shipA'Rho managed to destroy a Lunar-Class Cruiser while suffering extensive damage, then Admiral Kotto's battlecruiser finished it off. It's the only known deployment of the Custodian class, the most powerful tau ship.

Also this; http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Lar%27shi_Class_Cruiser

During that conflict, the Tau had been shown first-hand where the Kor'vattra was lacking, and attempted to design a ship that could match the Imperium's Lunar Class Cruiser. Although the resulting vessel was still no match for a comparable Imperial warship, the vessel that resulted was nonetheless a credible ship of the line.

 Hoyt wrote:
Most Tau ships cannot match the Imperial equivalent though, the only known ship is the Custodian-class Battleship, which is a match for one of the weakest Imperial cruisers, the Lunar-Class.

1) The Custodian class is primarily a carrier, not a true battleship, even if BFG calls it a battleship for rules/size purposes.

2) It wasn't just a Lunar-class cruiser, it was the cruiser, smaller escorts, and an Overlord-class battlecruiser. The Tau blew away the cruiser and damaged the battlecruiser.

3) The A'Rho was bait, not the primary threat. The Tau sacrificed one ship to take the Imperium's fleet out of the fight and leave the convoys unprotected. A carrier shouldn't be in a close-range gun battle in the first place, it should be attacking from long range with its squadrons. But, to accomplish their strategic goals, the Tau put their carrier in a position where it could be chased down and forced to fight up close. And despite the unfavorable circumstances IA3 explicitly states that it was a hard fight for the Imperium.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Hoyt wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Hoyt wrote:


The Tau carrier was in fact a Custodian-class Battleship (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Custodian-class_Battleship), the most powerful vessel the Tau can field. It managed to destroy a Lunar-Class Cruiser, one of the most common Imperial warships (six hundred in service with the Imperium in the Segmentum Obscurus alone, probably more ships than the entire Tau navy has at it's disposal). Other than that ship(which isn't very impressive), Tau vessels are completely outmatched in space and would get slaughtered in open combat, against a proper Imperial fleet.

The Tau won the Taros campaign because of poor choices on the Imperium's part, nothing more. The only reason their hasn't been a proper crusade mounted against the Tau is because the other threats the Imperium face are far greater than a tiny Xeno empire taking some border worlds.

Though by Mass Effect standards the Tau would crush the Reapers, nevermind the Citadel races.

That's because the tau are tiny compared to the imperium. A "proper" imperial fleet is probably 3x the size of a tau one with some ships that the tau have no equivalent for.. But that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about equivalent ships. Tau cruisers are a match for imperial cruisers, that sort of thing.


I'm not arguing that the tau can stand against the might of the imperium, far from it (I even say they can't in my original post), I'm simply disagreeing that the tau are as outmatched as asherian makes them out to be.

Most Tau ships cannot match the Imperial equivalent though, the only known ship is the Custodian-class Battleship, which is a match for one of the weakest Imperial cruisers, the Lunar-Class.

And where do you get that information, may I ask?

Thats from battlefleet gothic.

I'm talking about the specifics that the custodian is only equal to a luner. I have the taros campaign book and it says that the battleship was, in fact, perceived to be the main threat to the imperial fleet, and was specifically the main focus of the imperial fleet until it was eventually destroyed.

Also remember the Ziest campagin was considered a success the whole idea that shadow sun out witted Cato Scarius who is hundreds of years older than her is hilarious though.

Also the ziest campagin thing to quote the wiki

By this time, the Ultramarines were no longer the only Space Marine forces in the assault. Forces from the Night Watch, Halo Dragons, Silver Skulls, Sable Swords, Crimson Fists, Iron Lords, Aurora Chapter, Eagle Warriors and the Knights of the Raven, as well as many others, had all joined the Ultramarines in the attack on Augura. Despite the advanced technology, Battlesuits and weaponry, the Tau had no hope for defeating such a huge combined force of Space Marines. Augura's fortresses, shipyards and weapons factories were destroyed and the Tau expansion ended with the Tau falling back to protect more secure territory.[1]
Unfortunately, though the Space Marines had won the war, it was not possible to sanction a thrust into Tau held space as the individual Space Marine forces were required elsewhere in the galaxy and it was only reluctantly that Sicarius gave control of the defence back to the planetary governors.[1]

The Ziest sector was very important and was a tactical victory. The tau took planets no doubt but they were not very important nor where they forgeworlds who often blow themselves up so the tau can't get their technology.

It's what it says in the book, blame the authors not me. To quote.

The anticipated counter-attack from the imperium fell upon the Zeist sector, and this too was part of Shadowsun's plan. As a diversion, this far-flung system was scarified for the Greater Good of the Third Sphere Expansion. While many seeded colonies fell to the elite forces of the imperium - their vaunted Space Marines - the effort tied down the majority of the Imperium's rapid strike forces and allowed the main Tau assaults to scythe deeply into more desirable neighboring star systems. The worlds of the Imperium toppled on after another before the precision onslaught.

Edit: also, I note that lexicanum seems to only use SM codex as a source, where as the tau codex is the only place where this info is.

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 Hoyt wrote:

The Battle for the Taros System, the Custodian-Class shipA'Rho managed to destroy a Lunar-Class Cruiser while suffering extensive damage, then Admiral Kotto's battlecruiser finished it off. It's the only known deployment of the Custodian class, the most powerful tau ship.

Also this; http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Lar%27shi_Class_Cruiser

During that conflict, the Tau had been shown first-hand where the Kor'vattra was lacking, and attempted to design a ship that could match the Imperium's Lunar Class Cruiser. Although the resulting vessel was still no match for a comparable Imperial warship, the vessel that resulted was nonetheless a credible ship of the line.

You mean a completely different (now obsolete) ship? Their fleet was originally much weaker than the imperium's (I even said as much), but the new fleet is a match.


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 Peregrine wrote:

 Hoyt wrote:
Most Tau ships cannot match the Imperial equivalent though, the only known ship is the Custodian-class Battleship, which is a match for one of the weakest Imperial cruisers, the Lunar-Class.

1) The Custodian class is primarily a carrier, not a true battleship, even if BFG calls it a battleship for rules/size purposes.

Yep, tau don't actually have a battleship, nor are they likely to get one, as BFG isn't being made anymore.

edit: And it should be noted, IA3 even calls it a"carrier

 Peregrine wrote:

 Hoyt wrote:
Most Tau ships cannot match the Imperial equivalent though, the only known ship is the Custodian-class Battleship, which is a match for one of the weakest Imperial cruisers, the Lunar-Class.

1) The Custodian class is primarily a carrier, not a true battleship, even if BFG calls it a battleship for rules/size purposes.

2) It wasn't just a Lunar-class cruiser, it was the cruiser, smaller escorts, and an Overlord-class battlecruiser. The Tau blew away the cruiser and damaged the battlecruiser.

3) The A'Rho was bait, not the primary threat. The Tau sacrificed one ship to take the Imperium's fleet out of the fight and leave the convoys unprotected. A carrier shouldn't be in a close-range gun battle in the first place, it should be attacking from long range with its squadrons. But, to accomplish their strategic goals, the Tau put their carrier in a position where it could be chased down and forced to fight up close. And despite the unfavorable circumstances IA3 explicitly states that it was a hard fight for the Imperium.

It is a battleship in the same way Emperor-class Battleship, a mixture of both a carrier and a battleship, it is currently as far as as I'm aware the most powerful Tau vessel, with the most firepower.

The Tau had their own escorts as well, and the damage to the battlecruiser was repaired, so it couldn't have been too significant, after losing the Lunar-class, the Overlord then re-engaged and destroyed the Custodian. Not very impressive for being armed with the Tau's best weaponry.

Most Tau ships cannot match the Imperial equivalent, thats what I'm arguing. The Tau had better strategy and tactics during the Taros Campaign, not gonna dispute that.

EDIT: Lexicanum calls it a battleship with the heavy carrier ability of its predecessor, the Gal'leath. It's why I assumed it was the Tau's equivalent http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Or%27es_El%27leath_Class_Battleship

I don't have the Taros book on me so I can't confirm.


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You mean a completely different (now obsolete) ship? Their fleet was originally much weaker than the imperium's (I even said as much), but the new fleet is a match.

That class was born out lessons learned in the Damacles crusade and failed to match a Light Cruiser. Can't find anymore info on any new ships the tau have developed, probably because BFG isn't being made anymore.

Edit: also, I note that lexicanum seems to only use SM codex as a source, where as the tau codex is the only place where this info is.

So it is techinically propaganda or is it truth?

Remember unreliable narrator.

And it should be noted, IA3 even calls it a"carrier

I think it is a carrier.

But everyone it is called a battleship. remember Forgeworld does not overrule what the codex or what GW produces. As it is often a mistake. every book I have references it as a battleship.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Or%27es_El%27leath_Class_Battleship

plus as has been pointed out that Carriers and Battleships are equal in 40k.

But there is a big difference between a battlecruiser and a battleship in 40k. As an Emperors Class Battleship vs an Overlord Battlecruiser, the emperor's class battleship has hundreds of flighter wings and broadsides that could destroy the overlord battlecruiser relatively quickly. Oh look you destroyed a light battle cruiser!

Its why in battlefleet gothic tau lost most of their battles. Tau just don't have a counter to the battleships or star forts of the Imperium.

 Asherian Command wrote:
But everyone it is called a battleship. remember Forgeworld does not overrule what the codex or what GW produces. As it is often a mistake. every book I have references it as a battleship.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Or%27es_El%27leath_Class_Battleship

...

You do realize that the class was created by FW in IA3 and so far only has a single other mention (a brief note in the old Tyranid codex), right?