If you were in charge of the imperium, what would you do?

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**SomeRandomEvilGuy**

dusara217 wrote:

Plus, didn't each Black Crusade have a specific goal in mind; like, none of them was actually meant to completely destroy the Imperium until the 13th?

Correct.

Hierophant wrote:Chaos certainly is not a meritocracy. It's actually a system ruled by patronage. If the Gods don't favour you, or provide you with boons, then you're nothing.

You could argue that the Gods reward merit, but bear in mind if Abaddon's function (knowingly, or not) is likely to keep the Imperium harried without ever actually causing it to collapse. If so, then he's doing a great job. He has merit in his lack of ability to seal the deal. And it isn't as if the Gods are not known for their plots, or using people for their own ends.

The fluff has stated many times that it is not in the interest of Chaos to see the Imperium, and therefore Humanity, collapse, as it's the source of most of its power. The aims of CSMs differ, but they're just pawns. Abaddon is just a pawn. What he wants doesn't matter. What he does (or doesn't do) is what's important to the Gods.

If you are weak or incompetent, either the Chaos Gods punish you or your fellow heretics do.

As far as I know the idea that it is in interest of Chaos to keep the Imperium intact is supposition. I see no reason having a Chaos dominated style Imperium would not be more beneficial for the Ruinous Powers.

And a 10,000 year plan is a pretty crap plan. There's nothing in it at all that justifies the length, though that could of course simply be down to bad writing. Even then, it doesn't remove the central point, which is that removing Abaddon would simply open the position to someone else. Abaddon, without his gifts, is not anyone special. Hell, even the fluff portrays him as petty and insecure, and he regularly gets disrespected by all manner of other warband leaders and Traitor Primarchs.

Put a ton of resources into killing him, and Honsou, or someone else, gets a promotion and all his Chaos gifts. Nothing has really changed. Nobody really cares about Abaddon (does anyone in Chaos care about anyone else?), and his death would simply cause a series of promotions, nothing more. No morale collapse, nothing.

The fact that the Imperium is superior militarily and is more unified than the forces of Chaos along with there being no way to "blitzkrieg" the Imperium means that a conventional offensive would be annihilated. Not to mention the fact that the Eldar have a tendency to fight Chaos forces as well. Abaddon is the guy who unified the splintered remnants of the traitor Legions, gains the allegiance various Dark Mechanicums and coerces or persuades demons and other forces into helping him. The scale of his operations, and the fact that he turned the Sons of Horus from a crippled Legion into the most powerful Legion as the Black Legion, demonstrate aptitude for his position. If I recall correctly all the Chaos Primarchs bent the knee to Abaddon. He is more influential than they are.

Considering killing him would be a side effect of defeating the 13th Black Crusade it would be hugely important. It's unlikely no other leaders would be killed the war either. It could be a savage blow to power of Chaos for potentially millennia to come.

**pelicaniforce**

Hierophant wrote: his death would simply cause a series of promotions, nothing more

There is no reason to believe that there would be a warmaster or any kind of unified chaos faction after Abaddon. The warbands didn't get together and demand someone weld them into an alliance. As it is, Abaddon probably doesn't have the cooperation of more than 60% of all chaos forces. The Black Legion itself only exists at all because of Abaddon's aggressive recruiting from other gene lines. If a different officer were the most powerful of the former Sons of Horus, like one from the True Sons warband, then the "Black Legion" wouldn't be called that, might not recruit from other gene lines, and might reject daemonic pacts that Abaddon uses liberally. The most important thing is that first point that the legions don't recognize very much mutual self interest. There could be three or six pretenders who all have less power than Abaddon does now and none of whom work with the others.

**Hierophant**

Everyone here confuses the aims and will of the CSMs with that of the Chaos Gods. The two do not always equate, and in fact, quite often do not.

Abaddon rules, in part, because he has the backing of all four Gods. He, like all CSMs, is a pawn. Wittingly or not, he does the bidding of the Gods, and his path is theirs to shape as they see fit.

If a pretender took over, they would just as easily mould him into whatever they wanted him to be, and invest in him the same powers and give him the same access to Daemons, with CSMs that allied to the pretender the same carrots and sticks involved to follow him.

Virtually no CSM that deals with the Gods has any real control over their path in life other than an illusory one. Even the Primarchs were nothing more than pawns, and that's the main, ironic tragedy/stupidity of the CSMs. They believed they rebelled to throw off their shackles, but instead just entered into an even greater form of slavery, albiet a more subtle one.

**EmpNortonII**

Hierophant wrote:
Everyone here confuses the aims and will of the CSMs with that of the Chaos Gods. The two do not always equate, and in fact, quite often do not.

Abaddon rules, in part, because he has the backing of all four Gods. He, like all CSMs, is a pawn. Wittingly or not, he does the bidding of the Gods, and his path is theirs to shape as they see fit.

If a pretender took over, they would just as easily mould him into whatever they wanted him to be, and invest in him the same powers and give him the same access to Daemons, with CSMs that allied to the pretender the same carrots and sticks involved to follow him.

Virtually no CSM that deals with the Gods has any real control over their path in life other than an illusory one. Even the Primarchs were nothing more than pawns, and that's the main, ironic tragedy/stupidity of the CSMs. They believed they rebelled to throw off their shackles, but instead just entered into an even greater form of slavery, albiet a more subtle one.

Kurze didn't.

**Hierophant**

Kurze had very little truck with the Gods, and neither do the majority of the Night Lords, which is why I emphasised that element. Abaddon is the champion of Chaos Undivided. They're at polar ends of the CSM spectrum.

The non-Chaos worshipping elements of the Night Lords and the Alpha Legion (the majority) likely have infinitely far more free will than anyone dwelling in the Eye of Terror. If you live near the Warp and you deal with the Gods, then you're simply part of a larger plot. You're a tool, and nothing more.

**Stormwall**

Require all female officers to wear miniskirts.

(Don't get triggered folks, there is an obvious refrence in there.)

Track down the Emperor's biological sons.

**Filch**

Psienesis wrote:
Filch wrote:
Psienesis wrote:
... and after 25,000 years of research into building that monstrosity, you learn it's still taken out by a single infantryman with a melta-bomb.

Also, this is the fluff forum, points values and the like do not exist as in-universe concepts.

Invincible Behemoth special rule causes any explosion results to instead cause d3 hp losses. A Mega Sentinel with 16 hp would need about 6 melta bomb explosions.

The main idea was to just get every guardsmen into a sentinel. Make sentinels abundant and so numerous that sentinels be the go to army force instead of marines.

The "A Melta-Bomb Turns BaneBlades into Puddles of Slag" (AMBTBBiPoS) rule, as defined in the fluff for Baneblades and melta-bombs, and 40k in general, states that a weapon is only as destructive as its Cool Factor. If a Melta-bomb is used against the wall of some nameless building to attack some faceless mooks inside it, then it just blows a hole in the wall, maybe.

If the melta-bomb is carried by a Named Character on foot, without the benefit of heavy support and is charging a vehicle manned by his/her Nemesis? That melta-bomb will cause the deaths of worlds, *especially* if Our Hero is injured and/or dies in the resulting explosion.

you do understand Imperial Knights have Invincible Behemoth and its real.

**Grey Templar**

EmpNortonII wrote:
I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.

Out of curiosity, why?

The Tau are a worthlessly tiny annoyance in one tiny insignificant corner of the Galaxy. Plus, nothing they have is better than what the Imperium already has theoretical access to. The Imperium could arm all their soldiers with power armor, plasma guns, and give them hover tanks if they wanted. The issue is that would mean they'd only be able to arm a tiny fraction of what they currently do. Getting some Tau technology wouldn't change the issue of finite resources.

Lasguns, LRBTs, and all the other gear Guardsmen get isn't the best, but it ensures the job gets done. As opposed to having only a small number of highly equipped but terribly outnumbered soldiers.

The Lasgun and LRBT are actually quite decent vehicles. The lasgun is cheap, very reliable, has decent stopping power, and is simple to operate. The LRBT is also cheap, has good armor, a long range and powerful gun that is both simple to operate and keep running, it runs on just about any combustible liquid, and its an all around reliable vehicle.

It doesn't matter if a Hammerhead is 3 times as good as an LRBT when you can deploy 9 LRBTs for the cost of one Hammerhead.

**EmpNortonII**

Stormwall wrote:

Track down the Emperor's biological sons.

Given his obsession with all-male color-coordinated armies, you're not going to find any.

**Furyou Miko**

EmpNortonII wrote:
Stormwall wrote:

Track down the Emperor's biological sons.

Given his obsession with all-male color-coordinated armies, you're not going to find any.

The Emperor, canonically, has lots of children. :p

**dusara217**

Furyou Miko wrote:
EmpNortonII wrote:
Stormwall wrote:

Track down the Emperor's biological sons.

Given his obsession with all-male color-coordinated armies, you're not going to find any.

The Emperor, canonically, has lots of children. :p

Not even the metaphorical kind, his children could literally fill up vacant lots via sheer numbers.

**Psienesis**

When you're almost 40,000 years old when you decide to sorta shuffle off the mortal coil, you had an awful lot of time to go Kirking around the galaxy.

you do understand Imperial Knights have Invincible Behemoth and its real.

And slap a melta-bomb on an IK's butt and watch it vanish into a super-heated cloud of adamantine gas. This is what melta-bombs are for, what they are specifically designed to do. It's a melta. This is a technology designed for the express purpose of cutting the uncutable, melting the unmeltable, and rendering heavy armor into a cute concept.

**Champion of Slaanesh**

I'd destroy the inquisiton and grey knights kill the high Lords then force everyone to reject the Emporer and turn to Nurgle

**Psienesis**

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
I'd destroy the inquisiton and grey knights kill the high Lords then force everyone to reject the Emporer and turn to Nurgle

... are you sure you chose the right username?

**EmpNortonII**

Furyou Miko wrote:
EmpNortonII wrote:
Stormwall wrote:

Track down the Emperor's biological sons.

Given his obsession with all-male color-coordinated armies, you're not going to find any.

The Emperor, canonically, has lots of children. :p

Apparently so...

Fun fact I learned looking into this.... apparently, psycannons, psyk-out grenades, and similar weapons are made by 1) the Emperor's psychyic gak and piss or 2) melting down the Emperor's children... wow.

Ya know, if he does turn into a God, he is gonna be PISSED at the Inquisition...

**Unit1126PLL**

Also, I still think all of you are dooming humanity just by changing anything.

As has been said, 40k is not some insane place where a single sensible man could wave a sensibility-wand and just fix it up - the Imperium of Man is the best that can be done given the situation at hand.

**Psienesis**

Unit1126PLL wrote:
Also, I still think all of you are dooming humanity just by changing anything.

As has been said, 40k is not some insane place where a single sensible man could wave a sensibility-wand and just fix it up - the Imperium of Man is the best that can be done given the situation at hand.

Excepting Hover-thrones. Hover-thrones make everything more awesome by at least 15%.

**Unit1126PLL**

Psienesis wrote:
Unit1126PLL wrote:
Also, I still think all of you are dooming humanity just by changing anything.

As has been said, 40k is not some insane place where a single sensible man could wave a sensibility-wand and just fix it up - the Imperium of Man is the best that can be done given the situation at hand.

Excepting Hover-thrones. Hover-thrones make everything more awesome by at least 15%.

The Imperium has hover-thrones!

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-JP/Archmagos-Draykavac-Archmagos

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Addendum: Well, the Adeptus Mechanicus does, at least.

**Grey Templar**

EmpNortonII wrote:
Furyou Miko wrote:
EmpNortonII wrote:
Stormwall wrote:

Track down the Emperor's biological sons.

Given his obsession with all-male color-coordinated armies, you're not going to find any.

The Emperor, canonically, has lots of children. :p

Apparently so...

Fun fact I learned looking into this.... apparently, psycannons, psyk-out grenades, and similar weapons are made by 1) the Emperor's psychyic gak and piss or 2) melting down the Emperor's children... wow.

Ya know, if he does turn into a God, he is gonna be PISSED at the Inquisition...

Given his actions, I doubt he gives 2 feths about his biological children.

**Psienesis**

Unit1126PLL wrote:
Psienesis wrote:
Unit1126PLL wrote:
Also, I still think all of you are dooming humanity just by changing anything.

As has been said, 40k is not some insane place where a single sensible man could wave a sensibility-wand and just fix it up - the Imperium of Man is the best that can be done given the situation at hand.

Excepting Hover-thrones. Hover-thrones make everything more awesome by at least 15%.

The Imperium has hover-thrones!

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-JP/Archmagos-Draykavac-Archmagos

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Addendum: Well, the Adeptus Mechanicus does, at least.

Pshaw... that is a Hover-Pulpit! I'm talking serious Throneage here!

Spoiler:

**Knockagh**

Yes yes, thanos's throne that's the one. Awesome. Goes through space too.

**EmpNortonII**

Hierophant wrote:

Put a ton of resources into killing him, and Honsou, or someone else, gets a promotion and all his Chaos gifts. Nothing has really changed. Nobody really cares about Abaddon (does anyone in Chaos care about anyone else?), and his death would simply cause a series of promotions, nothing more. No morale collapse, nothing.

The Chaos gods are not known for their ability to get along. They all have interests that work in opposition to each other. It could be that they find a leader quickly... or we get a scenario where the chosen warlords of various Chaos gods war and scheme for control for centuries while the IoM has enough time to crush Gaz, turn back the 'Nids, and hunt Necrons before they wake.... in that order, more than likely.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:
EmpNortonII wrote:
I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.

Out of curiosity, why?

The Tau are a worthlessly tiny annoyance in one tiny insignificant corner of the Galaxy. Plus, nothing they have is better than what the Imperium already has theoretical access to. The Imperium could arm all their soldiers with power armor, plasma guns, and give them hover tanks if they wanted. The issue is that would mean they'd only be able to arm a tiny fraction of what they currently do. Getting some Tau technology wouldn't change the issue of finite resources.

Lasguns, LRBTs, and all the other gear Guardsmen get isn't the best, but it ensures the job gets done. As opposed to having only a small number of highly equipped but terribly outnumbered soldiers.

The Lasgun and LRBT are actually quite decent vehicles. The lasgun is cheap, very reliable, has decent stopping power, and is simple to operate. The LRBT is also cheap, has good armor, a long range and powerful gun that is both simple to operate and keep running, it runs on just about any combustible liquid, and its an all around reliable vehicle.

It doesn't matter if a Hammerhead is 3 times as good as an LRBT when you can deploy 9 LRBTs for the cost of one Hammerhead.

The Tau make their weapons efficiently enough they can arm every soldier with a rifle superior to the bolter humanity reserves for its elite warriors. They're the only race in the galaxy that is advancing technology- every other race has hits its zenith and is falling backwards. Both make the Tau worthwhile allies that can change the fate of the galaxy.

Numerical superiority didn't work out well on Taros. The Tau captured about as many troops as they themselves deployed in the conflict, iirc.

**Champion of Slaanesh**

Psienesis wrote:
Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
I'd destroy the inquisiton and grey knights kill the high Lords then force everyone to reject the Emporer and turn to Nurgle

... are you sure you chose the right username?

I was a follower of the dark prince but then the grandfather showed me the true way :p

**Finlandiaperkele**

I would;

1. Whip Mechanicus into shape (ie. bring them under Imperial authority), remove the infighting, politicising and backstabbing to increase the technological output. Make them start figuring out how to mass-produce a non-warp FTL.

2. Attempt to negotiate a truce with the Eldar. More useful to work together than be at war. Give them free hands to deal with any and all Necron incursions and Tyranid infestations (within reason).

3. Mobilize Segmentum Obscurus, and kick Abbadon back into the hole he crawled from.

4. Start to assign manpower and resources to find a chemical/biological weapon against the Tyranids.

5. Force the Tau to succumb or be destroyed. Give front liability to Ultramar.

6. Start figuring out how to lessen the bureaucracy of the Administratum.

**AtraUnam**

Make peace with Tau then jointly convert a forge world to spew out plasma rifles by the trillions. With every guardsman holding a Tau rifle the Imperiums problems will simply melt away. (Or not as it happens since only las-guns do that)

**dusara217**

Finlandiaperkele wrote:
I would;

1. Whip Mechanicus into shape (ie. bring them under Imperial authority), remove the infighting, politicising and backstabbing to increase the technological output. Make them start figuring out how to mass-produce a non-warp FTL.

That is literally impossible. Every single government organization in the world has politicking and infighting and backstabbing in it; it's how people gain power within the organization and it's how Generals become Generals, the CIA directory became the CIA director, etc. Developing FTL drives that aren't Warp-reliant could take millenia, as virtually any FTL drive would need to defy the laws of physics just to move faster than light. As it is, Warp Drives allow ships to travel millions of light years in a couple of months.

2. Attempt to negotiate a truce with the Eldar. More useful to work together than be at war. Give them free hands to deal with any and all Necron incursions and Tyranid infestations (within reason).

MAkes sense, except for the second sentence. The Eldar would need some serious help to deal with Necrons and 'Nids, not to mention the fact that they wouldn't much care about Imperial systems lost to Necrons.

3. Mobilize Segmentum Obscurus, and kick Abbadon back into the hole he crawled from.

To do so, you would need to get a Warp God more powerful than Chaos Undivided to stabilize the EoT, and that simply isn't going to happen.

4. Start to assign manpower and resources to find a chemical/biological weapon against the Tyranids.

They would simply adapt to it, but if you were to, say, create a rapidly evolving, semi-intelligent mutagen (similar t the Tyranids, really), you could, potentially, conquer them. However this would, invariably, bite the Imperium in the ass later on.

5. Force the Tau to succumb or be destroyed. Give front liability to Ultramar.

This has been tried, and it failed.

6. Start figuring out how to lessen the bureaucracy of the Administratum.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you simply misworded this. Perhaps you meant "lessen the complexity and inefficiency of the bureaucracy", which would be beneficial.

**person67**

this is under the assumption that I am a mortal who needs to remain alive.

1. Get rid of the PDF and replace it with the SDF (sector defence force). this should allow individual worlds to hold out better because more local forces will be available while the IG or SM.

2. Try and create a better list of all the worlds occupied by humanity. Somehow convince the Navis Nobilite to create a shared star map through magic or the 3 Bs (bribery, blackmail and bullying).

3. Declare certain worlds under the governorship of the IG either in strategic positions or worlds in risk of attack and get them to build fortifications massively.

4. Set up something similar to the AdMech but with less religious stuff. Over a long time far exceeding my own lifetime they would replace the AdMech through slowly reverse- engineering and finding and copying STCs.

This won't solve the issue but at the end of the day I will still be alive sitting on my hover throne and then place might be a tiny bit nicer.

**dusara217**

Well, if you do the last one, you'll be dead within a week of coming into power.

**DoomShakaLaka**

dusara217 wrote:
Well, if you do the last one, you'll be dead within a week of coming into power.

Your a real negative Nancy you know that?

**endlesswaltz123**

LumenPraebeo wrote:
Bring reform to the Administratum, the Imperial Navy, the Imperial Guard, dismantle the Inquisition and bring all its personnel under the responsibility of the Officio Assassinorum. Bring reform to the Officio Assassinorum, and turn it into an general Intelligence branch of the Imperium. Increase Space Marine chapters, begin a 27th Founding. Increase Deathwatch chapter to legion strength, 10,000 strong. Start a propaganda campaign to increase colonization. Especially to worlds in between trade hubs. Initiate research project to find more efficient ways of terraforming, I imagine this will require bringing in knowledge from the Ordo Xenos and the Martian priesthood. Increase propaganda campaign for the celebration of the Emperor and his Primarchs. Remove Ministorum leaders from seats of power. Reverse positions of authority for the Adepta Sororitas, bringing the Ministorum under the watchful eye of the students it graduates. Remove their ships, and make sure the Sororitas work in close tandem with the Navy and Guard. Bring reform to the Arbites, make sure they conform to standard equipment. Lower tithes on planets across the board, but bring the taxes up to standard. No uneven tithes on planets of the same grade. Increase production demands on the Mechanicus and Forge Worlds. Bring reforms to education across the Imperium. Increase ship production. Demand increase in workers. Demand increase in Navigator population. Fix the Golden Throne.

Only just started reading this thread, but you'd do well to last 5 minutes with such wide and in-universe radical changes. The only question would be, who would get to you first, the inquisition or the Ecclesiarchy.