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 Kilkrazy wrote:
There was similar outrage when the LAPD started to buy cars instead of horses.

This is why it is called conservatism.

Cars instead of horses is a logical decision. Try to catch someone in a car with a horse. Switching from normal to "green" cars isn't a rational move, it's motivated by emotion.

Is the opposition to this move a rational move, or is it motivated by emotion?

1) interviewing witnesses and suspects, preparing crime reports and taking statements (if your job is to just go to X house and interview the owner then 2 doors works)
Then you're a regular trooper and need a 4 door.

2) giving evidence in court (ie driving to and from the courtroom)
Then you're a regular trooper or a detective type. See above.

3) visiting schools to give talks (unless you're expecting to arrest the children/staff?)
Have you been to an LA public school. You need body armor, grenade launcher, and your tactical underoos.

4) policing large public events, concerts and demonstrations (you're there to have a presence, any suspects in crimes will be taken away in vans rather than in individual patrol cars to maintain the amount of police at the event)
Ok but wouldn't that be better with a van full of PoPo or just the regular troopers?

I maintain this is just bad pr and will end with them being used for pr shows.


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 d-usa wrote:
Is the opposition to this move a rational move, or is it motivated by emotion?

Its motivated by logic and a review of the information so, rational.
-2 door vehicles have extremely limited usefulness.
-There are comparables that are much cheaper.
-Therefor, its a stunt.


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 Ouze wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
What police job involves a 2 door vehicle?

And the wheel keeps turning.

Reported. You keep attacking people and the forum. If you don't like the opinions of others, don't read them.


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 Kilkrazy wrote:
There was similar outrage when the LAPD started to buy cars instead of horses.

This is why it is called conservatism.

Thats because their Model Ts kept spooking my mare. They weren't even following the law about a man walking in front with a lantern warning passers by!

 d-usa wrote:
Is the opposition to this move a rational move, or is it motivated by emotion?

Make a point or don't. Just asking a question that doesn't seem like you're interested in getting a genuine answer for is often used to look witty, but pretty much everytime makes others look condescending / desperate. I am not saying that this applies to you, internet, communication, etc. but if you're interested in discussing a point, make a point.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
There was similar outrage when the LAPD started to buy cars instead of horses.

This is why it is called conservatism.

Cars instead of horses is a logical decision. Try to catch someone in a car with a horse. ....

I agree. That is why it was weird that conserative people decried the move from horses to cars.

Switching from normal to "green" cars isn't a rational move, it's motivated by emotion.

They aren't switching from normal to green cars. They are adding some electric cars to their overall fleet that contains many different types of vehicles.

 Kilkrazy wrote:


They aren't switching from normal to green cars. They are adding some electric cars to their overall fleet that contains many different types of vehicles.

Good point, my bad on the phrasing. They decided to use "green" vehicles to increase their vehicle pool instead of traditional vehicles and as of now, I don't see a reason for it (genuinely speaking here). Lead by Model is out of question as the main reason for people not interested in electric cars isn't them not being popular, it's the very high price and just seeing officials using them isn't going to solve that. Electric cars further come with disadvantages regular cars don't have, namely limited range and speed.

My wife and I are huge electric car supporters and would never change back from our Tesla, but Teslas are far out of the affordable range for the largest part of the entire world population and they are the only cars that can easily compare to regular cars.

If you ask me without any background knowledge on the matter, I'd wager it's a publicity stunt with the car producer, having sealed a deal with the state / city.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Is the opposition to this move a rational move, or is it motivated by emotion?

Make a point or don't. Just asking a question that doesn't seem like you're interested in getting a genuine answer for is often used to look witty, but pretty much everytime makes others look condescending / desperate. I am not saying that this applies to you, internet, communication, etc. but if you're interested in discussing a point, make a point.

Agreed.
Frankly I could see a use for an electric power vehicle, but for ancillaries-again meter maids and such (but those aren't really cops). Here support staff often operate of vans with their equipment. But a BMW??? Come on!!!

BMW electric cars? Stealthy...you won't hear them approaching when they come to shoot your Corgi. Sounds like money well spent.

You could argue that an electric car could make a better interceptor, especially because of the acceleration advantages of electric. But, I don't think that's the reason for this purchase.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
BMW electric cars? Stealthy...you won't hear them approaching when they come to shoot your Corgi.

Dogs can hear electic cars approaching. Master race etc. It's their secret plan to take over the world, let people murder people with silent cars, making it look like accidents.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
BMW electric cars? Stealthy...you won't hear them approaching when they come to shoot your Corgi.

Dogs can hear electic cars approaching. Master race etc. It's their secret plan to take over the world, let people murder people with silent cars, making it look like accidents.

Plus that car is so small even a wiener dog can see over the dash. If I were a cat in LA, I would now be truly afraid. VROOM! SPLAT!!!!

 Sigvatr wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Is the opposition to this move a rational move, or is it motivated by emotion?

Make a point or don't. Just asking a question that doesn't seem like you're interested in getting a genuine answer for is often used to look witty, but pretty much everytime makes others look condescending / desperate. I am not saying that this applies to you, internet, communication, etc. but if you're interested in discussing a point, make a point.

People in this thread: "This is stupid and people are just doing it because of emotions"
Other people in this thread: "Hear Hear"

Me: "Maybe some people are just opposed to it because of emotions"
Other people in this thread: "What's your point" while ignoring all the actual points already made while repeating the same "this is just because of emotions" mantra.

I get it, I'll see myself out.

 d-usa wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Is the opposition to this move a rational move, or is it motivated by emotion?

Make a point or don't. Just asking a question that doesn't seem like you're interested in getting a genuine answer for is often used to look witty, but pretty much everytime makes others look condescending / desperate. I am not saying that this applies to you, internet, communication, etc. but if you're interested in discussing a point, make a point.

People in this thread: "This is stupid and people are just doing it because of emotions"
Other people in this thread: "Hear Hear"

Me: "Maybe some people are just opposed to it because of emotions"
Other people in this thread: "What's your point" while ignoring all the actual points already made while repeating the same "this is just because of emotions" mantra.

I get it, I'll see myself out.

He's not looking. Bum rush him!

 d-usa wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Is the opposition to this move a rational move, or is it motivated by emotion?

Make a point or don't. Just asking a question that doesn't seem like you're interested in getting a genuine answer for is often used to look witty, but pretty much everytime makes others look condescending / desperate. I am not saying that this applies to you, internet, communication, etc. but if you're interested in discussing a point, make a point.

People in this thread: "This is stupid and people are just doing it because of emotions"
Other people in this thread: "Hear Hear"

Me: "Maybe some people are just opposed to it because of emotions"
Other people in this thread: "What's your point" while ignoring all the actual points already made while repeating the same "this is just because of emotions" mantra.

I get it, I'll see myself out.

If you wanted to make a good post instead of making a drama about it, you should have just said:

"As far as I can see, people claiming that it's a purely emotionally motivated idea ignore all the actual points already made while repeating the same "this is just because of emotions" mantra."

Or, if you wanted to step up, you could have actually listed (rational) arguments in favor of it while acknowledging the disadvantages of electric cars already having been mentioned multiple times.

It will not replace squad cars.

It will serve a specific purpose, like Police-Persons on Bikes and Horses.

It was a free-be loaner, so it cost the tax payers nothing.

On a scale of 0 to oral sex, it rates a 0.45 on my give a damn meter.

 Frazzled wrote:
What police job involves a 2 door vehicle?

Looking cool.

Unfortunately I am blocked from youtube at work, so now I will mentally insert image of Mad Max vehicles in my head.


COOOL!

 dogma wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
What police job involves a 2 door vehicle?

Looking cool.

Tiny Peen Complex Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Police Force?

 Frazzled wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
BMW electric cars? Stealthy...you won't hear them approaching when they come to shoot your Corgi.

Dogs can hear electic cars approaching. Master race etc. It's their secret plan to take over the world, let people murder people with silent cars, making it look like accidents.

Plus that car is so small even a wiener dog can see over the dash. If I were a cat in LA, I would now be truly afraid. VROOM! SPLAT!!!!

Im all for these new cars then.



But man that car is ugly.

i have been seeing the BMW i3 around for the last couple of months here in Manhattan Beach, and it is bigger than it looks in photos...
it is bigger than the Minis, Fiat 500's, and the Smart Cars i see rollin' around town...

even more interesting, it is not a 2-door, but a 4-door...
the two back doors are about half size, open backwards suicide door style, and the two back seats are easy to get into...
the one i see tooling around every Sunday has four grown adults riding comfortably, who have no trouble getting in the car after a trip to the Mongolian BBQ buffet...
it looks to have a bit more interior space than the 4-door Mercedes A Class...
it is a surprisingly roomy little car, about the size of a Honda Fit, which my girlfriend and I (and a big Rottweiler) used to cruise around Portland in quite comfortably...

i don't think a cop will have any problem getting a perp into the back of this thing...
in my experience, L.A. cops are more than happy to fold you into a pretzel before stuffing you in the backseat...
either that, or just shoot you and leave you for the Coroner to haul off!!!
i love L.A.

cheers
jah

 CptJake wrote:
This line is a huge strawman to what seems to b the OP's actual position: You can't get perps into/out of two door cars as easily as you can a 4 door car. Therefore it is dumb to buy or lease expensive 2 door cars.

You called it a strawman, and then you repeated the same argument. That's amazing.

To guide you through this, yes, obviously a two door car is impractical for arrests. Similarly, a taser is really impractical for stopping a bank robber with an automatic weapon. But people realise that not all policing is about shootouts with bank robbers, and for a lot of the rest of the job the taser is exactly what you need. Similarly, there's plenty of policing that isn't about making arrests (let alone high speed chases). Having specialist, cheaper to run cars for those roles isn't necessarily a bad idea.


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 CptJake wrote:
I just wanted to point out how folks like Sebster (and others) are completely misrepresenting the OPs objection to the 2 door cars.

I don't even know how you reached a point where you believed I was directly commenting on the OP, as opposed to the complaints made across the thread. Let's just call that imaginative interpretation on your part and move on.

Anyhow, there were two complaints in this thread, one about the number of doors, one about the inability to handle pursuits. Both arguments were silly, but one was much sillier than the other, and so for fairly obvious reasons I picked the weaker argument to demonstrate why that whole line of thinking was foolish.

And if we really want to get into it, electric and hybrid cars don't necessarily have better 'lifetime costs' especially with gas prices less than $4 per gallon. Take away federal subsidies to purchase prices and gas/diesel vehicles do even better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality


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 Sigvatr wrote:
Cars instead of horses is a logical decision. Try to catch someone in a car with a horse. Switching from normal to "green" cars isn't a rational move, it's motivated by emotion.

You have absolutely no idea what motivated this. No clue. But that doesn't stop you speculating wildly that this must be some irrational, emotional decision, presumably by some completely idiotic lefties that exist only in Tom Clancy's fever dreams.

It may well be that this is a poor decision, done through a misguided do-gooding. Or it may be purely cynical, a tiny amount of money they know is wasted but useful for PR. Or it may be there's a sweetheart deal from BMW, who are offering the vehicles cheap to get market access and good feedback on the performance of their new cars. Or it may be part of a greater economic deal, the county committing to these vehicles as the start of a larger fleet purchase to attract BMW manufacturing to California. Or maybe, just possibly, there's actually a role for small electric cars in a support role in the LAPD.

Any of those are possible, plus probably dozens of other scenarios. But by all means just keep deciding what it must be in your head, because you have political beliefs.


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 Frazzled wrote:
Then you're a regular trooper and need a 4 door.

Lots of police departments don't assign specific cars to specific officers, but have a pool of vehicles. So if you're on patrol you take the cruiser, if you're doing other stuff a smaller car might work.

 feeder wrote:
Tiny Peen Complex Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Police Force?

Yes, actually. The purchasing officer who buys/leases Dodge Challengers is not much different than those Tacti-fools who took part in the recent MRAP giveaway. It's all about the ePeen.

 Breotan wrote:

 feeder wrote:
Tiny Peen Complex Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Police Force?

Yes, actually. The purchasing officer who buys/leases Dodge Challengers is not much different than those Tacti-fools who took part in the recent MRAP giveaway. It's all about the ePeen.

Sad thing is, in some of those cases, those cars are only rolled out to car shows for the "cool" factor.

But they can be used for good things as well. In Oregon where I'm from, and I've heard of one also in Vegas,. the local PD and Sheriff's offices have cars that have been confiscated that are brought down to local drag strip where you can try to beat the 5-0 in what amounts to a "street legal" dragster. Around the area where I'm from, the effect this "program" has had is quite remarkable. We used to have a legit street racing problem, particularly when those stupid Fast and Furious movies were coming out every 6 months. Now, street racing is down to next to zero; and all of the "notorious" racers (the ones who've been caught and charged) are at the tracks on a Friday/Saturday night, instead of open roads.

Some communities use the "sports car" models for their School Resource Officers and the like. Such figures aren't actually expected to make arrests and transport (that's why schools keep calling the police during events, both real and otherwise) but they are highly visible and visually-striking.

It's not for the kids, it's for the parents who drive by the school. They see that the school has a police presence, so it must be safe(r).