Tau Tidewall rampart rules.

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**blaktoof**

Caederes wrote:
blaktoof wrote:
thoughts on the tidewall:

interestingly enough it also affects the Tau player, if you move onto it, or within 1" of the shieldlines, the tau shots bounce back on them as well as the rules only specify models within 1", and not friendly models, or tau models. This also prevents the tidewall from moving. Considering certain armies can move and turboboost quite far you can in effect nullify the tidewall on turn 1. Charge tau turn 2 with your units if they are still there (some things with re-rollable jinks will be...) and if they overwatch any of your re-rollable cover saves will let you roll a dice to see if you auto wound the tau that fired at you.

Please Tau players take this thing in your army lol.

By the looks of it to get within 1" of the shield-wall would mean being in base contact with the terrain...which would be illegal if there is a unit garrisoning it per the rules for defence lines if I'm remembering their rules correctly. Not so easy to nullify. You also have to be either on the terrain or surrounding it entirely so it can't move.

Additionally, I like the assertion that the re-rollable Jinks are such a big deterrent to an army that has by far the most Ignores Cover of any codex in the game.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
People are scared of the lack of a Strength value for precisely the opposite reasons to the ones you talk about. A Leman Russ Punisher shooting at a unit that Goes to Ground while manning a Tidewall will kill itself even though normally its guns wouldn't be able to hurt anything that is AV12 or above.

You cannot move into b2b with the wall as that counts as being in b2b with the models

The wall is battlefield debris, and not a model, and there is no rule preventing you from moving within 1" of the wall- as long as you are more than 1" away from the models on the otherside.

The D comment, was because a few posts people commented they would auto kill their characters by doing orbital bombardment etc.

as such it is very viable to just move within 1" of the wall and be more than 1" away from the models on the otherside- preventing the wall from moving and causing any models on the otherside firing at you with weapons that cannot ignore cover (yeah tau can get markerlight hits, but usually its on 1-2 units a turn...) having re-rollable cover saves will still protect you versus many shots.

**casvalremdeikun**

I kinda want to make the Blood Angels formation that generates difficult terrain when it deep strikes. Move your stupid 265 of line over that. Meanwhile, eat a bunch of Flamer shots. I really want a squad of TFCs for my Crimson Fists now. A Land Raider Achilles would be nice too.

Edit: Damnit, the Angel's Wrath trick wouldn't work. Oh well.

**Matt.Kingsley**

Dozer Blades wrote:
Lychguard used to have basically the same rule and it wasn't the end of the world. It is something new that is nice for Tau and it's not cheap either.

The difference is:

- Lychguard w/ Shield had a 3+/4++ then, and the deflection only worked with the ++ save. Basically the enemy had to shoot them with AP1-3 weapons for the reflection to even occur.
- The Dispersion shield could only deflect shots into a unit with 6". The shieldwall can hit a unit on the other side of the world.
- The Dispersion shield reflected the shot back as an auto hit using the original shot's Str and SP, not as an auto glance/wound with an AP value.

"Basically the same" as in same idea, completely different execution.

**Dozer Blades**

Less whining back then though for sure.

**Mallich**

Dozer Blades wrote:
Less whining back then though for sure.

Indeed. People didn't whine about the lychguard shield idea being so poorly executed that anti-infantry guns could harm distant heavy vehicles.
... Because the lychguard shields didn't work that way.
Now there's a shield rule that does work that way and, surprise surprise, people are objecting to the poor execution. How horrid of us.

**Pain4Pleasure**

Our tau player bought this. We have explained to him that he will be forced to tell us if he is bringing it, so that we may stock up on ignores cover firepower to render it useless.

**Talys**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
I kinda want to make the Blood Angels formation that generates difficult terrain when it deep strikes. Move your stupid 265 of line over that. Meanwhile, eat a bunch of Flamer shots. I really want a squad of TFCs for my Crimson Fists now. A Land Raider Achilles would be nice too.

Edit: Damnit, the Angel's Wrath trick wouldn't work. Oh well.

I don't think I've played on a table in the last three years with enough space to actually deploy the Tidewall in an intelligent way -- much less move it more than a few inches

I think the movement stuff is only really useful for a scenario where the table is specifically designed for the Tidewall to move. I mean, if your Fortress of Redemption could move, it really wouldn't be any better, because well, it's just too big to go anywhere.

**Dozer Blades**

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Our tau player bought this. We have explained to him that he will be forced to tell us if he is bringing it, so that we may stock up on ignores cover firepower to render it useless.

I remember watching a landraider blow itself up shooting at them.

**hanshotfirst**

WHAT?!? damnit someone near me just bought 3... and i have very litter ignores cover... maybe to troll him i will use some tua allies...

**master of ordinance**

Well I will have no problems as I refuse to play the resident Tau players but I can see the stupidity in this. It has no range on the deflection and can allow what is essentially a HMG (IE, the Heavy Stubber) to remove a HP from one of my Leman Russes. Now this really is beyond stupid.

**Co'tor Shas**

Dozer Blades wrote:
Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Our tau player bought this. We have explained to him that he will be forced to tell us if he is bringing it, so that we may stock up on ignores cover firepower to render it useless.

I remember watching a landraider blow itself up shooting at them.

Like, all in one turn, or over time?

**Valkyrie**

To be fair I doubt we'll see much use of them considering they're already sold out. Good job GW, your products are sold out before they even hit the shelves.

**Tiger9gamer**

Valkyrie wrote:
To be fair I doubt we'll see much use of them considering they're already sold out. Good job GW, your products are sold out before they even hit the shelves.

on the app today they announced they will be available separately on the 31st of october

**Valkyrie**

Tiger9gamer wrote:
Valkyrie wrote:
To be fair I doubt we'll see much use of them considering they're already sold out. Good job GW, your products are sold out before they even hit the shelves.

on the app today they announced they will be available separately on the 31st of october

Fair enough, consider me corrected.

**Tiger9gamer**

Valkyrie wrote:
Tiger9gamer wrote:
Valkyrie wrote:
To be fair I doubt we'll see much use of them considering they're already sold out. Good job GW, your products are sold out before they even hit the shelves.

on the app today they announced they will be available separately on the 31st of october

Fair enough, consider me corrected.

Yea I posted yesterday that they were out of stock so they may have jynxed it... literally when I saw it I cussed in the college elevator

**Martel732**

master of ordinance wrote:
Well I will have no problems as I refuse to play the resident Tau players but I can see the stupidity in this. It has no range on the deflection and can allow what is essentially a HMG (IE, the Heavy Stubber) to remove a HP from one of my Leman Russes. Now this really is beyond stupid.

Hey, it makes Imperial heavy weapons good against SOMETHING. It just happens to be the vehicle firing the weapon.

**TheCustomLime**

We finally get Xenos terrain and GW finds a way to ruin it. GG, GW. GG.

**Vryce**

I agree that the rule is worded poorly, but the reality is, as others have pointed out, this rampart will be difficult to use in its full capacity. As a Tau player myself, I wont even bother with it. If there's not at least 10 pieces of city ruins terrain (the most ubiquitous terrain @ my FLGS as the owner loves building/painting it), then there's something wrong. I literally would not even be able to deploy it, much less move it. Simply put more terrain on the board if you don't want to face it. If thats not an option, just remember that your opponent spent more than the cost of a decked out Riptide to be able to field it.

I remember how much everyone cried when the Fortress of Redemption was released - when was the last time someone dropped one of those down against you?

**GoliothOnline**

So we have to abuse Ignores Cover right?

Typhon Heavy Siege tank, AWAY!

**Intercessor**

Time to load up on Hellhounds and Bombards...

**Ghaz**

Intercessor wrote:
Time to load up on Hellhounds and Bombards...

... or Necron Tomb Blades with Nebuloscopes (like we need an excuse to take them to begin with

)

**War Kitten**

I need to go buy some more wyverns apparently

**BlaxicanX**

It's a dumb special rule but it doesn't scare me at all from a practical stand-point.

It's way too expensive for what it does, frankly. I don't see it ever ending up in a competitive list.

**Kanluwen**

Vryce wrote:
I agree that the rule is worded poorly, but the reality is, as others have pointed out, this rampart will be difficult to use in its full capacity. As a Tau player myself, I wont even bother with it. If there's not at least 10 pieces of city ruins terrain (the most ubiquitous terrain @ my FLGS as the owner loves building/painting it), then there's something wrong. I literally would not even be able to deploy it, much less move it. Simply put more terrain on the board if you don't want to face it. If thats not an option, just remember that your opponent spent more than the cost of a decked out Riptide to be able to field it.

I remember how much everyone cried when the Fortress of Redemption was released - when was the last time someone dropped one of those down against you?

The difference is that the Fortress of Redemption can only be assembled one way.

The Tidewall Rampart can be assembled multiple ways. The only caveat is that each section must be touching/within 6" of a Shieldline(the straight portion) if separate and that if one section moves, it all moves.

**Vash108**

Cant we just blow it up first, then deal with the Troops?

**JimOnMars**

Vash108 wrote:
Cant we just blow it up first, then deal with the Troops?

No, it's terrain, not a building or model.

**Matt.Kingsley**

The Tidewall isn't actually a building.
The only destructable part is the Railgun emplacement.

**Pain4Pleasure**

People.. Ignores cover is plentyful.. This thing sucks.

**the Signless**

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
People.. Ignores cover is plentyful.. This thing sucks.

Of course, I'll just go and grab my pile of burna-bommers with six single shot skorcha missiles that have to be purchased individually and then. . . I don't know. Realise that ignores cover is only plentiful for certain (read: Tau) armies.

I can't stop thinking what it would look like if someone shot a deathstrike missile at the wall. It would go "boing!"

This model has weirdly worded rules and is too expensive for most games. Nicely done GW.

**Vryce**

Kanluwen wrote:
Vryce wrote:
I agree that the rule is worded poorly, but the reality is, as others have pointed out, this rampart will be difficult to use in its full capacity. As a Tau player myself, I wont even bother with it. If there's not at least 10 pieces of city ruins terrain (the most ubiquitous terrain @ my FLGS as the owner loves building/painting it), then there's something wrong. I literally would not even be able to deploy it, much less move it. Simply put more terrain on the board if you don't want to face it. If thats not an option, just remember that your opponent spent more than the cost of a decked out Riptide to be able to field it.

I remember how much everyone cried when the Fortress of Redemption was released - when was the last time someone dropped one of those down against you?

The difference is that the Fortress of Redemption can only be assembled one way.

The Tidewall Rampart can be assembled multiple ways. The only caveat is that each section must be touching/within 6" of a Shieldline(the straight portion) if separate and that if one section moves, it all moves.

And the more you space the sections, the larger the ultimate footprint becomes, making it even more unwieldy. This thing is a gimmick at best and a hindrance at worst. You may see this fortification once or twice, but once the owner realizes that it's not a moving wall of invincibility and destruction, it'll be gone.

A select few may make this a cornerstone of their army; a player at my FLGS is talking about using one of these alongside a Stormsurge or two and filling the remaining points with cheap troops and a Riptide and is just expecting to table armies and not play for objectives. To which I said - and others have too - "Good luck finding a game."