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col_impact wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

Tankbustas are also amazing in general, but especially against their sypders that grant 4+ RP to wraiths.

Wraiths are not affected by +1 to RP due to wording.

Incorrect. The rule says they benefit from the special rule. But RP is worded in such a way that the unit must have the special rule or they will not benefit from it. So to satisfy the Harvest rule and benefit from RP the wraiths have the special rule. The end result is the Decurion grants them a 4+

That's not how it's written, however. RAI it's 5+

I don't know if you'd be able to get that to stick. I've never met or even heard of anyone who plays it that way.
(has there been a YMDC about it?)

Spoiler:

REANIMATION PROTOCOLS
When a model with this special rule suffers an unsaved Wound . . .

The only way a model can benefit from Reanimation Protocols is when it has the special rule. So per RAW there are only 2 ways to play it. Either Reanimation Protocols never works on any unit in the Canoptek Harvest or the units have the Reanimation Protocol special rule and are eligible for the +1 RP Decurion detachment buff.

Ah, yes. It really does appear to be an all or nothing scenario... so it seems RAI would be on the side of the Harvest getting the +1 to RP bonus from the Decurion (the other argument being that the harvest never gets RP... which goes entirely against what is written in the formations rules)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Obligatory reminder to Ork players in this thread:
If you see a Spyder on their side of the table, all long range weaponry needs to focus on it until it's gone. Repeat- do not let it survive past the first couple turns.

Don't have a book on hands but iirc, formation bonus is worded that wraiths can benefit from rp. Means they can have 5+++. But the decurion +1 bonus to rp requires the model to actually have the special rule.
Either way, it's a topic for ymdc. Not like you're gona kill them even with 5+++

 koooaei wrote:
Don't have a book on hands but iirc, formation bonus is worded that wraiths can benefit from rp. Means they can have 5+++. But the decurion +1 bonus to rp requires the model to actually have the special rule.
Either way, it's a topic for ymdc. Not like you're gona kill them even with 5+++

First step for you is to get the books and take a full look at the wording of all rules involved, at which point you will see that "benefit" means "grant the rule" or benefit does nothing and goes against the meaning of "benefit".

Warriors, even in the Decurion, are not much tougher than MEQ (they are weaker than MEQ against AP4). If they beating Nobs it's bad luck.

Alcibiades wrote:
Warriors, even in the Decurion, are not much tougher than MEQ (they are weaker than MEQ against AP4). If they beating Nobs it's bad luck.

They're tougher most of the time. And they get 4+ rerollable on demand. That's 7/8 to save. Means, regular ork boyz need 32 attacks to cause 1 wound on the charge. A nob with a pk will deal around 1 wound if he's not running crypteks. So, you're looking at 2 average dead warriors on the charge.
What i want to say, you should not plan for killing them.

 koooaei wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
Warriors, even in the Decurion, are not much tougher than MEQ (they are weaker than MEQ against AP4). If they beating Nobs it's bad luck.

They're tougher most of the time. And they get 4+ rerollable on demand. That's 7/8 to save. Means, regular ork boyz need 32 attacks to cause 1 wound on the charge. A nob with a pk will deal around 1 wound if he's not running crypteks. So, you're looking at 2 average dead warriors on the charge.
What i want to say, you should not plan for killing them.

Ork against MEQ: 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/3 = 1/12
Ork against Decurion Warrior: 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/16

They are slightly tougher.

EDIT: Oh I think I see your problem. Decurion Warriors do not get 4+ rerollable; they get 4+ with a reroll of 1s within 12" of the overlord. which is IIRC 59% to save, not 7/8.

He was also talking about Orbs which are sometimes used.

Alcibiades wrote:

EDIT: Oh I think I see your problem. Decurion Warriors do not get 4+ rerollable; they get 4+ with a reroll of 1s within 12" of the overlord. which is IIRC 59% to save, not 7/8.

7/8 is for orbs. + they get up from time to time when there's a transport floating nearby. You know, the one that's 11(13)-11(13)-11 with 4 hp.

 koooaei wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:

EDIT: Oh I think I see your problem. Decurion Warriors do not get 4+ rerollable; they get 4+ with a reroll of 1s within 12" of the overlord. which is IIRC 59% to save, not 7/8.

7/8 is for orbs. + they get up from time to time when there's a transport floating nearby. You know, the one that's 11(13)-11(13)-11 with 4 hp.

OK, orbs. That's one-use and is I think 3/4 (rerolling a 4+). Sill high admittedly.

Ghost Arks won't protect them from being swept and so isn't directly factorable into the equation (since it might not be usable if the Orks win).

Well, they proc it when needed and than continue wit regular 4+, 4+++ rerolling 1-s. Remember that they can choose to use rerolls after they see how many rolls failed. Even without a full reroll, they're almost as tough as assault termies. They're basically, 13 ppm termies in terms of durability.

I'm telling this stuff is that cron warriors will not be too far behnd ork nobz even on the nob'z charge. Especially if there's a scythe lord in a squad. They can even win nobz from time to time and it won't be an extraordinary occasion. They won't do a lot of damage, so, it's relatvely safe to st there and score points in the meanwhile.

 koooaei wrote:
Well, they proc it when needed and than continue wit regular 4+, 4+++ rerolling 1-s. Remember that they can choose to use rerolls after they see how many rolls failed. Even without a full reroll, they're almost as tough as assault termies. They're basically, 13 ppm termies in terms of durability.

I'm telling this stuff is that cron warriors will not be too far behnd ork nobz even on the nob'z charge. Especially if there's a scythe lord in a squad. They can even win nobz from time to time and it won't be an extraordinary occasion. They won't do a lot of damage, so, it's relatvely safe to st there and score points in the meanwhile.

Eh, Heavy Bolters and Heavy Flamers make my 13ppm "termies" cry....

Heavy Bolters aren't worth taking. The Ghost Ark will protect the Warriors and then you're still stuck with one of the worst weapons in the game.

Heavy Flamers are excellent though so long as you can get close. That's sometimes an issue though.