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2015/12/06 03:18:36
Subject: Comrade Corbyn is a commie 'thorn' in the UK's side - discuss.
Well if we didn't insist upon extraditing them to countries who routinely use torture as part of their 'judicial' process thing would undoubtably be a lot smoother. Damn the rule of law for filthy terrorists amirite?
Hey, that's our greatest export you're talking about there.
Now its heavily defended, and it hasn't been invaded or attacked in 30 years.
The lack of the Argentinian Junta may have played some role.....
What does this have to do with Jeremy Corbyn?
It's related to him because British citizens living on more distant territories can expect no loyalty from him regardless of their wishes, Corbyn puts making easygoing relations with other nations higher than the security of the communities living in these territories. There's no real reason to make friends with Argentina and they have no genuine claim to the Falklands, but Corbyn has still made it clear he thinks they should be shared all the same, despite 99% of the inhabitants not wanting that. So much for democracy. It's a worrying attitude to have to world affairs that you would abandon your own people and territory because another country sabre rattles a bit.
It's a bit like the way Corbyn has said he wouldn't use trident even if we were attacked. Using the option of Nuclear deterrent is a choice to be made at the time, a time that will likely never happen simply because of mutual destruction. It's ok to decide that you wouldn't do it, the bluff of the threat you would is enough, no one is going to test it. But don't make it clear to the world in your first week that you're bluffing and would never use it if targeted for nuclear war. What's the point of that other than to make us vulnerable to nuclear bullies in the world?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/06 09:55:08
2015/12/06 10:07:34
Subject: Comrade Corbyn is a commie 'thorn' in the UK's side - discuss.
It's related to him because British citizens living on more distant territories can expect no loyalty from him regardless of their wishes,
Mr Corbyn said in an interview with the BBC in 2013 that a "degree of joint administration" might resolve the conflict over the Falkland Islands. He has not stepped back from the suggestion since making it.
He said: "Other situations like this, for example the dispute between Finland and Sweden over the Aman Islands, was sorted out by some degree of joint administration while maintaining nationality.
"It was done with Hong Kong, it has been done to some extent with Gibraltar. There is a way forward.
Clearly, he is a fifth columnist. Aside from the tiny little fact that Corbyn has never actually said that the Falklands would ever be given to Argentina there is no way that parliament would allow it anyway. Storm in a teacup, just like most of the Corbyn 'controversies'.
There is if the price is giving them a foothold on territory that they have no right to and the people don't want them there. It's like being scared of some spoilt brat kicking you in the shin so you share half your sweets with them.
there is no way that parliament would allow it anyway. Storm in a teacup, just like most of the Corbyn 'controversies'.
Except it shows again the huge division between Corbyn and his party. There needs to be a clear united focus on shared values and purpose. We don't have that, there's Corbyn doing his own thing and many of his own cabinet and party doing something completely contrary. God knows what a government would look like with the party blowing one way and another all the time and the opposition party effectively getting to choose what gets passed.
Corbyn did win on a large mandate from party members. But this gets brought up again and again in relation to trident and similar. I thought the focus of his campaign in which he won was on domestic economic issues and resisting unfair austerity. But the debate has hugely been about trident since and Corbyn keeps choosing to bring it up. I despair at this, he fuels distractions to the actual problems we face economically and socially so he can push high profile, unrealistic pacifist rhetoric.
2015/12/06 10:37:16
Subject: Comrade Corbyn is a commie 'thorn' in the UK's side - discuss.
And I have spent the last couple of hours restating the same statement repeatedly while watching this evening episodes of the Bridge when I can be bothered to glance at the computer.
Whats your excuse?
I disagree with your opinion. You keep posting it. If you don't want people responding to and disagreeing with your opinions, maybe you shouldn't post them. Everyone has the right to reply in a public forum.
2015/12/06 10:44:59
Subject: Comrade Corbyn is a commie 'thorn' in the UK's side - discuss.
Its not unrealistic though. We both know that nuclear weapons will not be used by the UK, quite possibly by any state ever again. By far the closest that we ever came to nuclear Armageddon was the cold war and even then the sheer devastation that a nuclear war would have caused for no gain prevented their use. The only people mad enough to actually use nuclear weapons are terrorists. On that basis the money would be far, FAR better spent elsewhere, like reversing the Tory's ideologically driven austerity for example.
Thats beside the point though, Corbyn did push the issue at the Labour conference because it is a long standing aim of his. Since then it has been the SNP that have been focusing on Trident , precisely because they know how divisive it is with Labour and they want to ensure that Scottish Labour sinks with all remaining hands in the Scottish elections next year.
The Falklands thing is a total red herring, just like the "Corbyn supports the IRA!" hysteria. (By that standard, the rest of the UK political establishment supports the UVF and the UDA).
Corbyn and a few others voted against the Welfare Bill. The rest of the pseudo-Tories in the Labour parties were so focused on triangulating to the Right that they went and voted against.
That's just one issue, bombing Syria is another, where New Labour shows itself to be right wing and closer to the Tories than their membership. Stuff like that is why Corbyn won the leadership contest, and why I support him. Sure, he's a sort of unrealistic old lefty at times, but god damnit I prefer that to an unrealistic Neo-Con promising that bombs are going to make things better in the Middle East.
The New Labour wing voted to cut benefits to the poorest and most vulnerable because "the whip said so" and then kicked up murders when they were going to be asked to vote against a dubious and badly thought out bombing campaign, the essence of gesture politics at it's most cynical. If the British government really wanted to do something about ISIS they would put pressure on their noble allies Saudi Arabia to stop their citizens funding and supporting them and exporting their crazed Wahhabist brand of Islam across the world, and pressure on their NATO ally Turkey to stop bombing the Kurds and buying ISIS oil and allowing ISIS fighters through their border with Syria. But instead we get a bombing campaign with no clear strategic goal in sight, because bombing people is more politically comfortable than confronting the scummy behaviour of an ally.
New Labour look to me like they're trying to prove they are a macho party - taking "hard decisions" to hurt the poor and bomb people who are far away for the optics of it, rather than for any principle. They disgust me.
I used to think that Britain had one of the most odious left wings in Europe. Corbyn gives me hope for the decency and compassion of the British Left who were smothered in the Blair years. I'm cheering you guys on.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/06 11:22:54
You misundertand. The fact that the UK has a mass immigration problem at the moment is undeniable [...]
No, it isn't. You're one of the richest countries in the world. You have huuuuuge assets, you're just not willing to use them on refugees or immigrants, but trying to claim that your way of life is about to collapse because of the immigration is utter nonsense.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: He represents no threat to the British way of life, it's people like you with your vague allusions to dislike of 'ethnics' that reek of the jackboots my family shed blood and lots life fighting against, you're the threat to the British way of life, you're the ones that are warping the idea of national pride in beautiful Britannia into a sly fascism and xenophobia. Now slither off to your National Front meeting.
My girlfriend of nearly three years is Nigerian and two of my friends are Muslim, so the implication that I'm a racist is as laughable as it is groundless and pathetic.
Did you honestly just pull the "I have a black friend, I can't be racist!" card? I'm starting to think we should add that one to the Dakka bingo.
Muhr wrote: I don't hate immigrants, I just happen to think we have more than enough of them here and should close our borders to any more, as well as leaving the EU. I'm sick of Brussels throwing its weight about with us.
I think Monty Python can make my point for me here:
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2015/12/06 12:17:40
Subject: Comrade Corbyn is a commie 'thorn' in the UK's side - discuss.
Yet the dose of reality doesn't extend to the human rights act and the vast fortune the UK spends defending terrorists against deportation.
Whaaaa?
You're an ork?
Intelligent input required.
Well if we didn't insist upon extraditing them to countries who routinely use torture as part of their 'judicial' process thing would undoubtably be a lot smoother. Damn the rule of law for filthy terrorists amirite?
It took eleven years to remove Hamza and extradite him to the US. So, no, not right at all.
Cases where there is genuine risk are often flatly refused, this I have no complaint about. However most cases involve a lot of red tape, exceptional leave to remain on 'humanitarian reasons' due to dogma.
Canada processes and extradites in a week, and doesn't have a negative rep for doing so. The UK system is long winded inefficient and not fit for purpose. Oftw the system is unable to actually deport people who have failed to gain asylum also.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
2015/12/06 13:23:23
Subject: Comrade Corbyn is a commie 'thorn' in the UK's side - discuss.
It took eleven years to remove Hamza and extradite him to the US. So, no, not right at all.
Because of the severe issues with the US prison system and its use of indefinite solitary confinement. If the US had a more humane prison regime then he would have been extradited years earlier, probably within months of his extradition being granted. Its almost as if the British legal system requires some kind of humane standard for the treatment of prisoners.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/06 13:26:48
Muhr wrote: You misundertand. The fact that the UK has a mass immigration problem at the moment is undeniable
Citation needed.
How on earth does that make me a racist, which is what you're implying.
That'd be the bit where, in a sentence that roundly criticises those that voted for him as "do-gooder sheeple", you felt the need to point out that "the vast majority of those 60,000 voters were from ethnic minorities who he'd pandered to". You're criticising the voters for voting for him, and then feel the need to point out that they're from Ethnic minorities. Why? Why does them being ethnic minorities have any effect whatsoever? They're just as british as you or I, but for some reason you feel the need to single them out as if their votes are somehow suspect. That is why people are hinting that you might be a bit racist.
My girlfriend of nearly three years is Nigerian and two of my friends are Muslim, so the implication that I'm a racist is as laughable as it is groundless and pathetic.
I've been accused in this thread of being nasty to anyone who disagrees with me. Also not true! Bullying, intimidating, abusing and threatening others with different opinions is Corbyn's inner circles favourite habit and, it seems, yours, not mine.
That'd be because you described anyone that supports him as "do-gooder sheeple". It's odd, but immediately dismissing the opinions of those that disagree with you tends to not promote calm, polite discussion. You also insist on referring to him as "Comrade Corbyn" which, again, kinda suggests that maybe you don't want a discussion, and are actually here to rant about the left.
And one more thing! Some idiot on here said that I'm probably another "ill-advised Tory". I certainly am not a Tory! I voted for UKIP which is my right to do so.
"I'm not a tory! I am in fact even *more* right wing than the tories!"
I don't hate immigrants, I just happen to think we have more than enough of them here and should close our borders to any more, as well as leaving the EU. I'm sick of Brussels throwing its weight about with us.
Personally, I feel that we reached our limit back in 1066 when the Norman's invaded. It's all gone downhill from there.
Seriously though, the recent rhetoric regarding immigration has been terrifying. There was an article run in the Telegraph a couple of weeks ago that was advocating that the Rivers of Blood speech wasn't incorrect, and that Enoch Powell was right. Enoch "the face of British racism" Powell is being lauded as correct. How does that not terrify people?
I think that the time isn't right for Corbyn in a nutshell
Corbyn's agenda involves a socialist approach to the domestic system involving more benefits, more spending, more quality of life stuff, when the furor about immigrants supposedly arriving en masse in this country is at one of its peaks
He wants to talk about Trident in a period where David Cameron can spend all day talking about national security and drawing attention to stuff like ISIS
Oh and pretty much all of the media want his head to the point that they have no problem with literally cutting his sentences in half to completely change the meaning of what he says.
This is particularly damning when he talks about how it would have been better to put Osama Bin Laden on trial, which is a fair point, but he's then quoted as saying it was a "tragedy" to imply he's a "terroist sympathizer" . One of the things I most agree with as someone that doesn't often hold unmalleable beliefs on things in politics is that we should actually figure out what the point of view of the people we're bombing and calling terroists is. Its not an immediate suggestion you agree with them at all if you just talk to them. Calling Hamas "friends" though was somewhere between a political £%^" up and a total oddity, I'll admit. Obviously, that sort of attitude is easily seen as abhorrent when it comes to ISIS. I can see why. The thing is though, ISIS wins the propaganda victory every single time someone like Hilary Benn stands up and says that Islamic State must be destroyed. That's so easy for these people to twist into an attack on Islam that it becomes less unbelievable that people flock from all over the planet to this organisation. In that case though we'll never be able to find compromise because their beliefs are so utterly ridiculous and suicidal. We could use more tact, perhaps.
Basically, Cameron's going to walk all over him. I'd be hard pressed to say Corbyn will be the next Prime Minister even if the next Tory candidate for the position is total gak and David Cameron does a terrible job in the rest of his time. That's how easy his job is going to be.
Would I vote for him? No. I don't have enough confidence he'll do a good job, especially with the way he parades his pacifism, which I think will compromise his judgement and weaken the position of the country pointlessly. But I think that his approach is refreshing and in some ways there's noticeable merit in it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/07 01:43:16
2015/12/07 05:13:54
Subject: Comrade Corbyn is a commie 'thorn' in the UK's side - discuss.
Did you honestly just pull the "I have a black friend, I can't be racist!" card? I'm starting to think we should add that one to the Dakka bingo.
And yet it's true. Can't you see how that could be a good point when arguing against some moron who accuses me of racism? Mass immigration has caused huge problems in the UK. Only someone who wishes to deny those problems for reasons of their own, or who knows next to nothing about what's going off in the UK at the minute, would ever say that. Look at Germany, for example. Merkel was stupid enough to announce to the world that immigrants were all welcome. Suddenly 800,000 immigrants/refugees swarmed into Germany. German citizens have being known to be evicted from their houses because they were single people living in a house just so a group of immigrants could move in. The situation has driven parts of Germany to the brink of civil war. If you're intending on denying that as well you should do your research first because what I've just mentioned is well-known fact.
People like you will always try to trash someones reputation if they speak out by saying enough is enough regarding immigration. It sounds as if you'd allow another Germany to take place in the UK if you were in charge. Good job you're not. I'm not racist and saying I am just on the strength of a couple of my comments is pathetic. You don't know me and have never met me so stick your racist accusation where the sun don't shine, sunshine!
Another reason I think immigration needs an iron fist is that ISIS can take advantage of the situation by sending their fighters into Europe as refugees. The Paris attacks were perpetrated by terrorists who posed as refugees. If Comrade Corbyn were in charge he'd fling the doors to the UK wide open and welcome any and all 'refugees' with open arms. It doesn't take a genius to realise what would happen next. Misguided altruism is destroying Europe, breaking it apart at the seems. The entire EU is desperately struggling to cope with the sheer number of people descending on it, not just the UK. All the lefti luvvies want free movement across the Eurozone, but anyone with any sense can see how dangerously naive that is given ISIS' existence.
Comrade Corbyn, if he were in charge, would see the UK become Europes immigrant/refugee capital and he would see us without a nuclear deterrent at a time when the world is at its most dangerous. He'd also savagely cut our military down to a fraction of its current size, even more than what the current government has done. Different times call for different kinds of leaders. Churchill was the right man for the job during a time when the world was at war. When peace was achieved he wasn't nearly as adept a PM. Comrade Corbyn isn't the man for the job at the moment because of his pacifistic tendencies. I think it was a Roman general who once said "If you want peace prepare for war". Comrade Corbyn doesn't have what it takes to lead this country through what's to come with ISIS, he's too soft and dithers. I can't ever imagine him sanctioning the use of force...ever! If peace ever reigns and the whole country and world resembles Tellytubby land then maybe he'd be the man for the job. The sooner he goes the better.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2015/12/07 05:48:00
"How many people here have telekenetic powers raise my hand" - The Emperor, The council of Nikae
"Never raise your hand to your children, it leaves your midsection unprotected" - The Emperor
"My father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic" - Kharn
2015/12/07 06:46:27
Subject: Comrade Corbyn is a commie 'thorn' in the UK's side - discuss.
motyak wrote: "The Paris attacks were caused by terrorists posing as refugees"
Wasn't that debunked?
No it was a partial explanation. Some of the attackers were recent refugees, some were not.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
2015/12/07 08:42:30
Subject: Comrade Corbyn is a commie 'thorn' in the UK's side - discuss.
motyak wrote: "The Paris attacks were caused by terrorists posing as refugees"
Wasn't that debunked?
No it was a partial explanation. Some of the attackers were recent refugees, some were not.
'some' being 1 out of the 8 attackers, I believe? The rest being French or Belgian nationals. So 'partial explanation ' in so much as the smaller part of my pinky finger is a 'partial hand'
Edit: Evidence here is saying that six of the people involved were French or Belgian nationals, which is more than half of the 11 main perpetrators. So more like saying 2 fingers is a partial fist.
Did you honestly just pull the "I have a black friend, I can't be racist!" card? I'm starting to think we should add that one to the Dakka bingo.
And yet it's true. Can't you see how that could be a good point when arguing against some moron who accuses me of racism? Mass immigration has caused huge problems in the UK. Only someone who wishes to deny those problems for reasons of their own, or who knows next to nothing about what's going off in the UK at the minute, would ever say that. Look at Germany, for example. Merkel was stupid enough to announce to the world that immigrants were all welcome. Suddenly 800,000 immigrants/refugees swarmed into Germany. German citizens have being known to be evicted from their houses because they were single people living in a house just so a group of immigrants could move in. The situation has driven parts of Germany to the brink of civil war. If you're intending on denying that as well you should do your research first because what I've just mentioned is well-known fact.
I'm going to say it again, and I'm going to make sure I use big letters so that you actually read it, and then I'm going to explain why afterwards.
Citation Needed.
You know why? Because it's not 'well known fact'. If you're making that sort of claim, you don't make some sort statement and qualify it by telling the person that you're arguing that they're ill-informed. The burden is on you to prove your assertions. Supply some goddamn evidence for these sweeping claims about imminent German civil war, or just stop talking.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2015/12/07 09:33:18
motyak wrote: "The Paris attacks were caused by terrorists posing as refugees"
Wasn't that debunked?
No it was a partial explanation. Some of the attackers were recent refugees, some were not.
'some' being 1 out of the 8 attackers, I believe? The rest being French or Belgian nationals.
Two are known to have entered the EU posing as refugees. One was known to be in the EU already. Three had left the EU but returned by unknown means. The other three are unknown.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
2015/12/07 09:50:34
Subject: Re:Comrade Corbyn is a commie 'thorn' in the UK's side - discuss.
The point is, that to the hardcore anti-immigration mind, the fact that half the Paris attackers were EU citizens or Muslim/Arab descent merely shows it was a mistake to allow Muslims, Arabs and other outsiders to settle in EU (white) countries, and they should be deported.
This of course ignores the point that there are many French citizens of Algerian descent because France colonized Algeria in the 19th century, and got kicked out in the 1950s and for one reason or another this brought a lot of Muslim, Arab Algerians to mainland France. Their children and grandchildren have every right to live in France, and practice their religion, profession and politics within the law.
El Torro wrote: We've just had a by-election where Labour won a larger share of the vote than they did in the General Election (for that seat). Of course one shouldn't read too much into by-election results but this could be an indication that Corbyn isn't as disliked as the media would like us to think.
I don't agree with everything Corbyn does but I think he's a breath of fresh air in an environment where the only discernible difference between different politicians is what colour their tie is.
Corbyn's greatest strength is probably also the reason why he won't make it to the next General Election, he actually wants to change things in a meaningful way.
Just on the Syria thing, Corbyn has said in recent weeks that he believes we should be tracking down the people that fund ISIS and those who buy their oil. This will hurt them much more than dropping even more bombs on innocent civilians. Cameron doesn't want to do this though and it's about time people started asking why.
Because Cameron likes sucking up to the saudi's. And they are into this up to their necks.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
2015/12/07 10:44:32
Subject: Comrade Corbyn is a commie 'thorn' in the UK's side - discuss.
Crazy right? The idea that we should protect British citizens...
You mean what is actually happening?
At the end of the day though the Falklands are essentially a small village several thousand miles away. 'National security' only goes so far.
National security isn't just a matter of defending stuff that is within convenient reach. In a globalised world, British interests lie all over the place, and our trade routes in and out.
Crazy right? The idea that we should protect British citizens...
You mean what is actually happening?
At the end of the day though the Falklands are essentially a small village several thousand miles away. 'National security' only goes so far.
National security isn't just a matter of defending stuff that is within convenient reach. In a globalised world, British interests lie all over the place, and our trade routes in and out.
We can't even protect British interests in Scotland, when Russian subs start hanging around the Trident base, never mind the far corners of the globe!
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/12/07 13:47:12
Subject: Comrade Corbyn is a commie 'thorn' in the UK's side - discuss.
I read that Britain has to ask for sea patrol planes from NATO allies when russian subs lurked.
On the face of it that's not good, and I hope that the decision to scrap the planes is reversed and new ones obtained.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
2015/12/07 14:08:01
Subject: Comrade Corbyn is a commie 'thorn' in the UK's side - discuss.
MrDwhitey wrote: I read that Britain has to ask for sea patrol planes from NATO allies when russian subs lurked.
On the face of it that's not good, and I hope that the decision to scrap the planes is reversed and new ones obtained.
I know, it was absolutely disgusting when Corbyn got rid of them, the bloody coward.
Wait, what do you mean they were gotten rid of in 2010 by George Osborne? I thought Corbyn was the one that was going to get rid of the military and lead us to lose our military presence?
If you're wondering about my viewpoint on Corbyn by the way, my first post sort of expressed it. It was directed at how I would respond to the original poster, and not how I would describe Corbyn, if that helps.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/07 14:21:38
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
2015/12/07 14:38:31
Subject: Comrade Corbyn is a commie 'thorn' in the UK's side - discuss.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Aaaand you owe me a new keyboard Goliath!
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
