Who is the strongest psyker excluding the Emprah?

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**Gordon Shumway**

Atia or Sad Panda.

**oldzoggy**

ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

I'd certainly agree that Eldrad and Farseers aren't the most powerful psykers around, possibly the biggest reason for this is that they have to hold back. A Farseer can never access their full potential, they have runic protection layers that limit the amount of warp energy they can call upon because to draw. Eldrad's soul simply couldn't handle the same amount of psychic power a Primarch could because when he uses that much power he attracts every Daemon to claw at his defences, defences he'd himself strip away to try access this power, he'd be ripped to shreds.

I remember an old piece of fluff about Chaos Eldar, the few survivors of the fall that stayed within the eye of terror. They became some of the most powerful servants of Chaos, able to draw upon their full psychic potential without fear of Daemonic interference because they became one with the warp. The fluff has barely been mentioned since, but I'd imagine a Chaos Eldar would be a league above a Farseer in the same way as Sorcerers are a league above Librarians.

The question was in all of time right. So why not include pre fall eldar.

**Robin5t**

Grimdark wrote:
G00fySmiley wrote:
Grimdark wrote:
eosgreen wrote:
eldrad has gota be the most powerful? right?

I think Eldrad is the most competent, but not the most powerful.

fair point perhaps (though I think it is not accurate given the connection to the warp elder have thanks to the old ones manipulation), but assuming your premise is correct what is more impressive a muscle bound 240 lb 6'2 22 year old dude breaking 3 pine boards, or a 5' 5 125 70 year old doing he same. or how about a F350 pulling a load getting 5 mpg, and a Corolla pulling the same load getting 30 mpg.

We're going for 'stronger'.

Others already covered why Eldrad shouldn't be the strongest.
Fair fight, 1vs1, Eldrad doesn't cut it against many of the guys running for the title.

But that's not the Farseer's job description, and Eldrad is in charge of assuring that space elves win. Showing off isn't part of the job.

About Mephiston I don't know if he's a BAMF because psyker or because he overcame the black rage. If I remember correctly he was a normal member of the librarius before the accident that made him Mephiston.

I disagree, if Eldrad wants to break some fool over his knee head-to-head he's right up there with the best of them. Just ask Abaddon.

**ALEXisAWESOME**

Robin5t wrote:
ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
What are Mephistion's psyker feats? All I've read about him is how great a fighter he is and how powerful his will is but nothing distinctly arcane or psychically skillful.

I'd certainly agree that Eldrad and Farseers aren't the most powerful psykers around, possibly the biggest reason for this is that they have to hold back. A Farseer can never access their full potential, they have runic protection layers that limit the amount of warp energy they can call upon because to draw. Eldrad's soul simply couldn't handle the same amount of psychic power a Primarch could because when he uses that much power he attracts every Daemon to claw at his defences, defences he'd himself strip away to try access this power, he'd be ripped to shreds.

I remember an old piece of fluff about Chaos Eldar, the few survivors of the fall that stayed within the eye of terror. They became some of the most powerful servants of Chaos, able to draw upon their full psychic potential without fear of Daemonic interference because they became one with the warp. The fluff has barely been mentioned since, but I'd imagine a Chaos Eldar would be a league above a Farseer in the same way as Sorcerers are a league above Librarians.
You could apply that to White Seers, too. Eldar seers who are utterly immune to Chaos don't really have to worry about how much power they throw around.

Characters corrupted by chaos are as a rule of thumb usually more powerful then someone on equal terms on the good side. It's always been the way because Chaos worshippers can call upon the power of Daemons and Blood Sacrifices while White Seers presumably don't practice such evil arts. As for Eldrad throwing down with Abbadon if you read the passage he didn't read any super powerful Psyker gak, he simply foresaw the single pathway he could of taken to end the fight. Perfect foresight is very handy is a fight but won't be much good in a fight against Magnus who can turn the air to plasma.

**Galef**

Out of 3 pages, I am surprised no one has mentioned Kiaros FateWeaver, the LoC so gifted that Tzeentch himself can't claim to know as much as him (on a count of him throwing Fateweaver into the Infinity well and him surviving)

**Camundongo**

I would rank Eldrad at about the same as Ahriman (hell, they're roughly the same age). Eldrad is better at divination and possibly a more skilled psyker, but at this point I would say Ahriman has access to more raw power and a god behind him (however unwillingly).

And Galef, Fateweaver is probably in a similar boat to Eldrad - he probably has roughly the same sorcerous power as other LoC, but being able to view the future gives him a powerful edge.

**Typically-Wardian**

My vote goes to Tigurius. He's the only ppsyker to take information from the Tyranid Hive Mind, which means he bested millions of psykers simultaneously.

**pm713**

Or that somebody is a special favourite....

There's Njal. He killed an entire army of Khorne Daemons.

**rabidguineapig**

Galef wrote:
Out of 3 pages, I am surprised no one has mentioned Kiaros FateWeaver, the LoC so gifted that Tzeentch himself can't claim to know as much as him (on a count of him throwing Fateweaver into the Infinity well and him surviving)

QFT. How did everyone just completely forget Kairos during this whole discussion?

**Typically-Wardian**

Because demons shouldn't count in a psyker discussion.

**pm713**

Why?

**Typically-Wardian**

Because psykers use the warp to do their stuff, and demons are just made of warp.

**IllumiNini**

Typically-Wardian wrote:
Because psykers use the warp to do their stuff, and demons are just made of warp.

Yep. This. Including Daemons doesn't make a lot of sense because of this exact reasoning. Trying to include Daemons is like trying to include Necron Crypteks - they fall outside the definition of what we're comparing.

**Brennonjw**

Tzeentch>Emperor>Magnus>Malcador> Eldrad, Ahriman, etc.>everything else

**Iron_Captain**

Alpharius
/thread

**Selym**

thread
/Omegon

**Spetulhu**

ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
What are Mephistion's psyker feats? All I've read about him is how great a fighter he is and how powerful his will is but nothing distinctly arcane or psychically skillful.

He is very very good at enhancing his own already impressive stat line to insane levels, and he has resisted direct demonic temptations with a shrug (making the daemons cry blood). Pulverizing Hive Tyrants is also no mean feat. And he does have some sort of "witch sight" which lets him determie if someone's been tainted by Chaos. Maybe he's not the most powerful (living) psyker after the Emperor but he is certainly on the short ten name list you decide upon that person from.

**Backspacehacker**

I would think an old one technically if any are will alive.

**IllumiNini**

Brennonjw wrote:
Tzeentch>Emperor>Magnus>Malcador> Eldrad, Ahriman, etc.>everything else

Since Tzeetch is a God that is restricted to the Warp, we agreed further back in the thread (a couple of posts above yours) they Tzeentch doesn't count (and same thing with their Daemons).

Backspacehacker wrote:
I would think an old one technically if any are will alive.

I reckon it'd be the miracle of the galaxy if any were, but alas: I don't think any are.

**Backspacehacker**

IllumiNini wrote:
Brennonjw wrote:
Tzeentch>Emperor>Magnus>Malcador> Eldrad, Ahriman, etc.>everything else

Since Tzeetch is a God that is restricted to the Warp, we agreed further back in the thread (a couple of posts above yours) they Tzeentch doesn't count (and same thing with their Daemons).

Backspacehacker wrote:
I would think an old one technically if any are will alive.

I reckon it'd be the miracle of the galaxy if any were, but alas: I don't think any are.

An old one is on par with the emperor even right? It's just they mostly got killed, I would not be surprised if one still existed atleast

**KharnsRightHand**

oldzoggy wrote:
ProwlerPC wrote:
They are fundamentally different and don't obey the laws of physics as our reality knows it. They are made up of the energies swirling in a dimension that doesn't obey the laws of physics as our reality knows it. They are manifestationstill of the emotions, thoughts, ambitions and urges of the trillions upon trillions of psykic races ever since the first warp sensitive race was created by the old ones many eons ago. There's no real way to compare them.

And how is this different from lesser daemons ?

The same way Yahweh is different from humans. After all, lesser daemons are creations of the Chaos gods, offshoots of their own will, right?

**G00fySmiley**

IllumiNini wrote:
Brennonjw wrote:
Tzeentch>Emperor>Magnus>Malcador> Eldrad, Ahriman, etc.>everything else

Since Tzeetch is a God that is restricted to the Warp, we agreed further back in the thread (a couple of posts above yours) they Tzeentch doesn't count (and same thing with their Daemons).

Backspacehacker wrote:
I would think an old one technically if any are will alive.

I reckon it'd be the miracle of the galaxy if any were, but alas: I don't think any are.

Cegorach says hi... by throwing a pie and a buzzer hand shake... but then he got sad and had to wrestle back a solitaire from slaneesh

**Galef**

So what you guys are saying about Daemons is that they should auto-cast powers? Or be like the 5th ed codex where they didn't have Psychic powers but have abilities instead?

I'd be ok with either, but I still think they should be considered in this discussion. Once a Daemon takes physical form in this dimension, they are subject to the physical laws therein. They may be made of "warp-stuff" but while outside the Warp, they still have to channel it's power (hence why the current codex made them psykers)

Being made of Warp simply give them an edge over mortal psykers. Thus FateWeaver would be the most powerful psyker in all of 40K

**Rufiodies**

The Paternova of the Navis Nobilite?

**Psienesis**

Galef wrote:
So what you guys are saying about Daemons is that they should auto-cast powers? Or be like the 5th ed codex where they didn't have Psychic powers but have abilities instead?

I'd be ok with either, but I still think they should be considered in this discussion. Once a Daemon takes physical form in this dimension, they are subject to the physical laws therein. They may be made of "warp-stuff" but while outside the Warp, they still have to channel it's power (hence why the current codex made them psykers)

Being made of Warp simply give them an edge over mortal psykers. Thus FateWeaver would be the most powerful psyker in all of 40K

This is the Background section, game rules don't apply. In essence, any Daemon can just create psychic effects at will. They are creatures created of the raw essence of the Warp. They don't have Perils, they don't need to study powers, they just create them with a thought. That does not, however, mean that what a given Daemon can accomplish through the use of a given power will exceed, or even match, what can be done by a powerful mortal psyker.

**hemingway**

As I recall it from Thousand Sons, Eldrad and Magnus are pretty much on par and at one point attempt parlay as equals. Eldrad is actually considerably more insightful than Magnus, however, perhaps because of his age or maybe because he's not tainted by Chaos. #sixonehalfdozentheother

**IllumiNini**

I'd also add Cacodominus to this list. I mean, not much is known about it, but from the brief description of it as well as that of The Howling paints enough of a picture to make it formidable.