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 chaosmarauder wrote:

The most common occurrences of Snap Shots are when models with
Heavy weapons move and shoot in the same turn or when units make Overwatch shots. If a model is
forced to make Snap Shots rather than shoot normally, then its Ballistic Skill is counted
as being 1 for the purpose of those shots, unless it has a Ballistic Skill of 0 (in which case it may not
shoot).

You can see in the context of where it is written it only applies to snap shots and is not a blanket RAW rule to shooting with Ballistic skill 0 in other cases.

As I've already stated, there's a second possible context for that. It is also possible that the paragraph states what happens during snap shots, unless its BS is already lower than 1 (aka BS0) and just re-explains what happens in that case.

In other words, it could be that the bracketed text is just a reminder that BS0 units still can't shoot, and that Snap Shots being at BS1 doesn't let them Snap Shoot. I'm not saying you're definitely wrong, because it should be answered more specifically, but to me it only makes sense that the bracketed text is so bracketed for this reason (of just re-explaining something that already is, just like the use of this bracket here, as I've already stated all of this).

EDIT: And remember, everyone here seems to agree that whether or not this is RAW, we're all HIWPI is the same; Yes, go ahead and use that Psychic Skriek with the Patriarch.

 Yarium wrote:


As I've already stated, there's a second possible context for that. It is also possible that the paragraph states what happens during snap shots, unless its BS is already lower than 1 (aka BS0) and just re-explains what happens in that case.

Perhaps, but without an actual phrase for the bracketed portion to reference, RAW it would actually require an Errata to make it valid. (By adding the definition for no ability for ballistic skill)

I don't have the Patriarch so I have no personal view of this, just RAW rules lawyering cause I'm bored at work.

Personally I think the best RAI/HIWPI argument was an older one - the mini game with the deathwatch and Patriarch/Gene steal cult had an ability for the Patriarch to psychic shriek in it. Thats my favorite RAI proof.

ERRATA
40K RULEBOOK Page 27 – The Psychic Phase, Witchfire Add the following sentence after the fourth sentence of the first paragraph: ‘However, some witchfire powers do not have a weapon profile (such as the Telepathy power, Psychic Shriek); where this is the case, no To Hit roll is required – the attack hits automatically.’

BS0, snap shots, zero-level stats etc are all irrelevant. This one Errata in the FAQ says that the Genestealer Patriarch can shoot Psychic Shriek because it doesn't roll to hit. It's not a blast, it's not a beam, it's not a template: Psychic Shriek is it's own thing that is an exception to the Witchfire rules.

 chaosmarauder wrote:
@Charistoph

pistols, plasma, cannons - all of those things require skill to aim and hit a target - i.e. ballistic skill - you added lascannons and lasguns and other beams - still require skill to aim and understandably require ballistic skill to hit.

The shriek has been FAQed to auto-hit, no need to roll to hit.

The BRB absolutely does not define 'no ability' of ballistic skill (value 0) to disallow all shooting attacks - its just that if you look on the ballistic skill table, 0 is not listed so you could not hit - IF you had to roll to hit - which shriek does not.

The fluff supports it and the rules support it.

You are using real-world terms to justify a case that involves in game definitions that have been quoted to you.

Templates also do not require a Roll To Hit to aim and hit a target. Blasts and Barrage do not require a Roll To Hit to aim and hit a target.

The BRB definitely states that BS 0 has no ability to use anything connect to this stat. What is BS defined as, again?

Now, unless you can provide definitive proof that "no ability" equals "uses but automatically miss" instead, I'm going to have to stick to the definitions provided by the game in its several locations.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ixi_DUCK_ixi wrote:

ERRATA
40K RULEBOOK Page 27 – The Psychic Phase, Witchfire Add the following sentence after the fourth sentence of the first paragraph: ‘However, some witchfire powers do not have a weapon profile (such as the Telepathy power, Psychic Shriek); where this is the case, no To Hit roll is required – the attack hits automatically.’

BS0, snap shots, zero-level stats etc are all irrelevant. This one Errata in the FAQ says that the Genestealer Patriarch can shoot Psychic Shriek because it doesn't roll to hit. It's not a blast, it's not a beam, it's not a template: Psychic Shriek is it's own thing that is an exception to the Witchfire rules.

Incorrect on several levels.

Snap Shots cannot be fired with weapons that automatically hit. This is before Roll To-Hit, so is relevant.

Zero-level stats indicate an inability to use whatever is connected to it, such as BS with shooting. This is before Roll To-Hit, so is relevant.

If it stated, "regardless of BS", you would have a case, but it does not.

 chaosmarauder wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

If you have not ability, you can not perform anything related to that ability.

You may not use any bolters. you may not cast any witchfires, none. nothing at all. you have no ability...

This is also backed up by the Snap Shot rules.

BS0 means you may not use any shooting attacks.

Psychic Shriek is a witchfire, which is a shooting attack.

Under Zero-level Characteristics it defines what 'no ability' means in the second paragraph for Weapon Skill, Attacks, Armour Save, Strength, Toughness or Wounds. But provides no definition for Ballistic Skill - which means anyone creating one is trying to define their intent but it is not RAW.

You're second point about not shooting with ballistic skill 0 is in the context of snap shots only.

from the BRB under snap shots:

The most common occurrences of Snap Shots are when models with
Heavy weapons move and shoot in the same turn or when units make Overwatch shots. If a model is
forced to make Snap Shots rather than shoot normally, then its Ballistic Skill is counted
as being 1 for the purpose of those shots, unless it has a Ballistic Skill of 0 (in which case it may not
shoot).

You can see in the context of where it is written it only applies to snap shots and is not a blanket RAW rule to shooting with Ballistic skill 0 in other cases.

There is only a RAI explanation for not shooting shriek with BS0 - not a RAW one. And there are many RAI arguments for allowing to shoot it as well.

Your arguments are incorrect.

RAW a BS of 0 means they have "No ability whatsoever in that field"

Why are you trying to have a model with a BS 0 use an ability in that field if they have "no ability whatsoever in that field"

RAW, a model with BS 0 can not make shooting attacks.

P.S. the second paragraph for Weapon Skill, Attacks, Armour Save, Strength, Toughness or Wounds are all examples. If you have a WS of 0 you can not strike blows. that is one of the examples. Inferring from that example, a model with a BS 0 would then not be able to use shooting attacks.

OK so if we are talking RAW, no where in the rulebook does it actually say that anything that automatically hits has to use its BS. I do not see that rule. Those of you claiming it can't shoot an ability that automatically hits because its BS0 need to actually show where it says it cant do so in the rulebook. Because the quoted information NEVER says that an ability that automatically hits ever uses its ballistic skill in any way. BS0 is NOT a snapshot, period. Its also not a template, its an ability that automatically hits. AUTOMATICALLY. Until the rule that counter acts automatic is shown, it DOES automatically hit with the power.

Ah, this reminds me of why Zogwart was total buns in the 6th edition. He had witchfires, but BS0, meaning he could never actually use his psychic powers.

In reference to the BS0 and how it interacts with Snap Fire, I think that's a flawed argument. It doesn't actually describe how BS0 interacts with shooting attacks under normal conditions. Only during a subphase in which models are forced to BS1 if they are higher than BS1. It basically is saying BS0 models stay at BS0 (They don't gain accuracy) and are unable to fire snapshots.

Under the new FAQ, it seems that a BS0 model can use Shriek and auto hit under normal conditions (Due to the ruling on how such attacks now work), but if it would be required to snap shoot for any reason, it can't. Against a flyer or something, it becomes odd.

I'd rule that Psy Shriek will hit, because the rules for Psy Shriek say it auto hits. A specific rule beating the basic rule. So they could Shriek a flyer, auto hit, and roll to damage as usual. Just HIWPI, though I suppose we should ask the FB page as we'll just go in circles here.

(Though this question seems very situational, as only firing at flyers would 'force' a snap shot with a psychic power...or unless somehow BS is dropped to 0 through a game effect...and maybe invisible...hmmm)

Dyslexican32 wrote:OK so if we are talking RAW, no where in the rulebook does it actually say that anything that automatically hits has to use its BS. I do not see that rule. Those of you claiming it can't shoot an ability that automatically hits because its BS0 need to actually show where it says it cant do so in the rulebook. Because the quoted information NEVER says that an ability that automatically hits ever uses its ballistic skill in any way. BS0 is NOT a snapshot, period. Its also not a template, its an ability that automatically hits. AUTOMATICALLY. Until the rule that counter acts automatic is shown, it DOES automatically hit with the power.

No where does it state that anything that automatically hits can be used when it is BS 0. Simply put, the ability to hit automatically is great, but only if you can initiate the situation in the first place. BS is the ability to shoot. A BS 0 means you have no ability to shoot. No ability to shoot, no ability to hit, automatically or otherwise.

Yes, BS 0 is not a Snap Shot, it is worse than a Snap Shot. You can still fire a Heavy Weapon at BS 1. You cannot at BS 0.

Melevolence wrote:In reference to the BS0 and how it interacts with Snap Fire, I think that's a flawed argument. It doesn't actually describe how BS0 interacts with shooting attacks under normal conditions. Only during a subphase in which models are forced to BS1 if they are higher than BS1. It basically is saying BS0 models stay at BS0 (They don't gain accuracy) and are unable to fire snapshots.

Of course it cannot shot. It cannot shoot in the first place. If they could shoot before, then why would this statement be needed?

Melevolence wrote:Under the new FAQ, it seems that a BS0 model can use Shriek and auto hit under normal conditions (Due to the ruling on how such attacks now work), but if it would be required to snap shoot for any reason, it can't. Against a flyer or something, it becomes odd.

But it has nothing to do with that judgement. Nothing in there was regarding if it couldn't be initiated in the first place, which is what BS 0 causes.

 Charistoph wrote:

Tonberry7 wrote:Templates and blasts aren't like Psychic Shriek because you still use BS re scatter. Where does it say that BS0 absolutely excludes making a shooting attack?

I don't remember Templates Scattering, and not all Blasts are affected by BS. But still, BS 0 means no ability to Shoot. This is reinforced by the Snap Shot rule that someone previously quoted.

Snap Shots
Under specific circumstances, models must fire Snap Shots – opportunistic bursts of fire ‘snapped’ off in the general direction of the target. The most common occurrences of Snap Shots are when models with Heavy weapons move and shoot in the same turn or when units make Overwatch shots. If a model is forced to make Snap Shots rather than shoot normally, then its Ballistic Skill is counted as being 1 for the purpose of those shots, unless it has a Ballistic Skill of 0 (in which case it may not shoot).

Sorry but these rules you have quoted are in regard to Snap Shots. Nothing you have said proves conclusively that a Patriarch can't use Psychic Shriek.

If you have no ability, and you use an ability, have you complied with the rule? Simple yes or no.

 Tonberry7 wrote:

Sorry but these rules you have quoted are in regard to Snap Shots. Nothing you have said proves conclusively that a Patriarch can't use Psychic Shriek.

It was a reference, a reinforcement, as I stated. Now, can you demonstrate that BS does not provide the ability to Shoot according to its own definition?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
If you have no ability, and you use an ability, have you complied with the rule? Simple yes or no.

100% this.

No ability = can not shoot.

If you have BS 0 you cannot make shooting attacks, even if they do not roll to hit or automatically hit. Those are still shooting attacks, which you cannot do if you have BS 0.

 Charistoph wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:

Sorry but these rules you have quoted are in regard to Snap Shots. Nothing you have said proves conclusively that a Patriarch can't use Psychic Shriek.

It was a reference, a reinforcement, as I stated. Now, can you demonstrate that BS does not provide the ability to Shoot according to its own definition?

A reinforcement of what? Your opinion? I agree that if you're BS0 in most cases you can't shoot as if nothing else you'd need to roll a 7 on a D6 to hit. It may well be that they intended an outright prohibition on shooting with BS0 but I think Psychic Shriek is a special enough case that currently leaves things open to interpretation. So I can see your argument and it could be correct in this case but to be fair iirc you haven't had the greatest record in rules interpretations.

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:

Sorry but these rules you have quoted are in regard to Snap Shots. Nothing you have said proves conclusively that a Patriarch can't use Psychic Shriek.

It was a reference, a reinforcement, as I stated. Now, can you demonstrate that BS does not provide the ability to Shoot according to its own definition?

A reinforcement of what? Your opinion? I agree that if you're BS0 in most cases you can't shoot as if nothing else you'd need to roll a 7 on a D6 to hit. It may well be that they intended an outright prohibition on shooting with BS0 but I think Psychic Shriek is a special enough case that currently leaves things open to interpretation. So I can see your argument and it could be correct in this case but to be fair iirc you haven't had the greatest record in rules interpretations.

The rule literally says that if you have a 0, you lack any ability whatsever in that regard. You lack the basic ability to perform shooting attacks at BS0. There is no "in most cases" when you say "any ability whatsoever", it leaves no room at all.
And the To-Hit table simply doesn't a "7" since the actual rule is "here is a table, use it for comparing your roll to your BS". There is literally no BS0 entry in the table, and the "7 minus BS equals ToHit" is not the rule, just a "helping rule of thumb".

And just because GW overrules their rules as written - as they've done in multiple instances in the FAQ - doesn't mean a literal interpretation of the rules was wrong - it simply wasn't the intention of the author. The INTENTION with BS0 Witchfires is clear - at least for the Patriarch - to everyone: Yes, you should be able to cast it. It's HIWPI, but it's not what the rules say right now.

 Tonberry7 wrote:
A reinforcement of what? Your opinion? I agree that if you're BS0 in most cases you can't shoot as if nothing else you'd need to roll a 7 on a D6 to hit. It may well be that they intended an outright prohibition on shooting with BS0 but I think Psychic Shriek is a special enough case that currently leaves things open to interpretation. So I can see your argument and it could be correct in this case but to be fair iirc you haven't had the greatest record in rules interpretations.

It has already been stated it several times by now since that post you quoted. It is a reinforcement of the the definition of the BS characteristic AND the zero-level characteristic rule working in conjunction to deny the ability to even make Shooting Attacks before a Roll To Hit can happen. It has nothing to do with the ability to "roll a 7 on a D6 to hit".

And be careful what statements you make about a person's "record in rules interpretations". It could be considered trolling, especially when you ignore what else a person has already stated in that thread.

This is a situation in which the faq has caused a problem.

Under witchfire rules it states that all witchfire powers must roll to hit unless they are a template that hit automatically.

The psychic shriek power requires you to target a unit implying a to hit rule is required.

The to hit chart has no option for BS0 therefore a BS0 character cannot use it.

The faq has said that it auto hits which bypasses the rules for wutchfire powers requiring a to hit roll.

It is possible that the faq (being a 1st draft) may have made a mistake but psychic shriek is deliberately a witchfire power and not a malediction or nova.

It is therefore clear that a jink prevents its use however a BS0 character (based exclusively on the faq) has no need to roll to hit because it auto hits. Ballistic skill is used exclusively in this game to roll to hit. If a power does not need to hit it disregards the restriction of BS0.

INcorrect, as already shown

You have no ability to shoot. How are you then using such an ability to make a shooting attack?

 nurgle86 wrote:
This is a situation in which the faq has caused a problem.

Under witchfire rules it states that all witchfire powers must roll to hit unless they are a template that hit automatically.

The psychic shriek power requires you to target a unit implying a to hit rule is required.

The to hit chart has no option for BS0 therefore a BS0 character cannot use it.

The faq has said that it auto hits which bypasses the rules for wutchfire powers requiring a to hit roll.

It is possible that the faq (being a 1st draft) may have made a mistake but psychic shriek is deliberately a witchfire power and not a malediction or nova.

It is therefore clear that a jink prevents its use however a BS0 character (based exclusively on the faq) has no need to roll to hit because it auto hits. Ballistic skill is used exclusively in this game to roll to hit. If a power does not need to hit it disregards the restriction of BS0.

It's still a shooting attack that doesn't require a ToHit roll as it automatically hits. You simply cannot perform a shooting attack, even if it would automatically hit. You might have a super-intelligent smart missile that's literally fire&forget and never misses it's target, but if you have no means to actually launch it, you won't be able to use it. Same applies to the psychic / BS0 thing.
Is it stupid? Sure.
Is it not what was intended? Sure.
But it's the rules as they're written.

Just houserule it. If we're lucky they'll include something like "Witchfires that do not require a ToHit roll can be manifested and resolved without the use of the Ballistic Skill, so BS0 will not prevent you from using Psychic Shriek. Having to snapshot also doesn't affect such powers (Or "Having to snapshot however prevents you from using such powers", whichever they intended.)

The problem here is the interpretation of the words 'no ability'. They are unfortunately vague enough to open to interpretation that no ability is read by some people as is not allowed to...

Instead of looking at it as no ability to shoot it should be looked at as no ability to hit.

Ballistic skill is the ability to hit something. Psychic shriek has been specified in the faq as not needing a to hit roll. Having no ability in hitting something but not being required to hit something equates to the power resolves as described.

It is a 1st draft so hopefully this can be cleared up in the final version but until then it would be imo clutching at straws rules lawyering to prevent the power from being resolved

 nurgle86 wrote:
The problem here is the interpretation of the words 'no ability'. They are unfortunately vague enough to open to interpretation that no ability is read by some people as is not allowed to...

Instead of looking at it as no ability to shoot it should be looked at as no ability to hit.

Ballistic skill is the ability to hit something. Psychic shriek has been specified in the faq as not needing a to hit roll. Having no ability in hitting something but not being required to hit something equates to the power resolves as described.

It is a 1st draft so hopefully this can be cleared up in the final version but until then it would be imo clutching at straws rules lawyering to prevent the power from being resolved

Not sure why you feel the need to insult people over a few rules. The people saying "RAW this isn't allowed" are mostly also saying "but HIWPI is that you are allowed to do it". Insisting that "having no ability whatsoever at hitting things" does not include "automatically hitting things" is the odd interpretation here, at least to me. And as I said - I'm fine with you playing it that way in this instance as it's highly likely that that's what GW intended, so please, calm down .

nekooni wrote:

 nurgle86 wrote:
The problem here is the interpretation of the words 'no ability'. They are unfortunately vague enough to open to interpretation that no ability is read by some people as is not allowed to...

Instead of looking at it as no ability to shoot it should be looked at as no ability to hit.

Ballistic skill is the ability to hit something. Psychic shriek has been specified in the faq as not needing a to hit roll. Having no ability in hitting something but not being required to hit something equates to the power resolves as described.

It is a 1st draft so hopefully this can be cleared up in the final version but until then it would be imo clutching at straws rules lawyering to prevent the power from being resolved

Not sure why you feel the need to insult people over a few rules. The people saying "RAW this isn't allowed" are mostly also saying "but HIWPI is that you are allowed to do it". Insisting that "having no ability whatsoever at hitting things" does not include "automatically hitting things" is the odd interpretation here, at least to me. And as I said - I'm fine with you playing it that way in this instance as it's highly likely that that's what GW intended, so please, calm down .

I'm really sorry if you thought I was insulting anyone. I did not intend to include an insult in any of my words and if you thought it was an insult then I hope you re-read what I wrote because I can't see what I wrote as an insult.

I'm also very calm. I'm new to this forum so you won't really know me from what I write but It is NEVER my intention to insult people who are discussing their views openly.

I was suggesting that the words leave an interpretation open and I think that interpretation is wrong.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
If you have no ability, and you use an ability, have you complied with the rule? Simple yes or no.

Don't hold your breath getting an answer. We should not be discussing this from the point of view of the BS0 Patriarch, which clearly is an oversight on GW's part. It has already been established many times that BS0 prevents shooting attacks and a witchfire is a shooting attack, even those ones without a profile.

As the topic was psychic shriek and snapshots, there doesn't seem to be a definite answer yet. Are GW's FAQs complete now or still in draft? As snapshots are part of the Shooting domain, thus also affecting Witchfires, I'm not sure how to go from there. This is more of a case that could I hit a flyer with them or not?

On one side is the requirement to snapshot at flyers, which you can't do with something that automatically hits.
On another side is the ruling that no to hit roll is needed.

I'd go carefully here and not make the profile-less witchfires any more powerful and can see rules supporting this view rather than the other one.

rules lawyering is a bad phrase to use.

"no ability" is pretty conclusive. You have no ability to do anything with shooting at all.

Naw wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
If you have no ability, and you use an ability, have you complied with the rule? Simple yes or no.

Don't hold your breath getting an answer. We should not be discussing this from the point of view of the BS0 Patriarch, which clearly is an oversight on GW's part. It has already been established many times that BS0 prevents shooting attacks and a witchfire is a shooting attack, even those ones without a profile.

As the topic was psychic shriek and snapshots, there doesn't seem to be a definite answer yet. Are GW's FAQs complete now or still in draft? As snapshots are part of the Shooting domain, thus also affecting Witchfires, I'm not sure how to go from there. This is more of a case that could I hit a flyer with them or not?

On one side is the requirement to snapshot at flyers, which you can't do with something that automatically hits.
On another side is the ruling that no to hit roll is needed.

I'd go carefully here and not make the profile-less witchfires any more powerful and can see rules supporting this view rather than the other one.

But that's easily resolved.

Witchfires without a profile are shooting attacks that do not require a to-hit roll as they hit automatically
shooting attacks that do not require a to-hit roll as they hit automatically cannot be used when snapfiring

therefore: witchfires cannot snapfire.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
rules lawyering is a bad phrase to use.

If that was an isnulting phrase i'm sorry. I come from a CCG MtG background where thats a term we regularly use.

 nurgle86 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
rules lawyering is a bad phrase to use.

If that was an isnulting phrase i'm sorry. I come from a CCG MtG background where thats a term we regularly use.

Welcome to the forums nurgle86! Before Wizos (or perhaps Gleemax...) nuked the WotC forums, I had participated or at least lurked on the Rules forums there. I really enjoyed the atmosphere there, but I think it was because MtG has a very tight rules-set that expertly describes all possible game states and exactly what happens in each one, ensuring a uniform play experience. Sometimes people would argue the rules on that forum, but it was very clearly black and white "yes" or "no", and often was resolved when someone found the right rules references. On the rare occassion that this wasn't the case, the rule would then be brought up in the Rules Templating forum, governed over by qualified judges, and the question of "should this be a rule?" would take place. There were numerous times where the game's rules were actually changed based on these discoveries. When someone just repeated the same argument over and over, despite a clear rule being given, we called them trolls, and that was that.

However...

Currently, and for the forseeable future, Warhammer doesn't have this. These rules are written in both hard rules and stylistic languages. This works fine for the most simple scenarios, but starts to break down when you start zeroing in on specific corner cases. This thread being a perfect example; what does BS0 really mean? There's only one place in the whole codex that outright states what happens with BS0, but that wording can be read in two different ways (with the bracketed text being entirely contextual in one way, or entirely general in another way), with no definite means of saying with 100% confidence which is the correct way. We don't have a Rules Templating forum that could have any authority either. Even if we did, the rules would be unlikely to have an Errata made for them (though GW may be having a change of heart on this now!). As such, a rules debate here often forums into an endless spiral. One side says "no, this is right, because of this", and the other side says "no, this is right this other way, because of this", and then they just scream that same argument back and forth until the topic gets locked.

Ultimately, your approach of being level-headed is a good one, and I didn't read anything insulting in what you wrote, but it is the internet, and the tone of a post can easily be misinterpreted.

@ Yarium - well said!

On the GW facebook FAQ, under Witchfire FAQ specifically, several people have asked them to clarify this, using the Patriarch/Shriek as an example. Lets see if they do in the final draft.

This conversation has very much gone down the line of "can BS=0 fire or not" rather than the topic of Psychic Shriek and snapshots.

Back on to this, there appears to be a confusion in this excerpt from the FAQ: "no To Hit roll is required – the attack hits automatically". We know that "weapons that do not roll to hit" roll is defined in the rulebook, and such weapons implicitly cannot fire snap shots. But the second part of that excerpt - "hits automatically", is confusing. This is because weapons that do not roll to hit (such as template, blast etc) do not hit automatically. But this new FAQ says that these witchfires do.

Does "hits automatically" therefore trump the snapshots rule?

Warhanna wrote:
This conversation has very much gone down the line of "can BS=0 fire or not" rather than the topic of Psychic Shriek and snapshots.

Back on to this, there appears to be a confusion in this excerpt from the FAQ: "no To Hit roll is required – the attack hits automatically". We know that "weapons that do not roll to hit" roll is defined in the rulebook, and such weapons implicitly cannot fire snap shots. But the second part of that excerpt - "hits automatically", is confusing. This is because weapons that do not roll to hit (such as template, blast etc) do not hit automatically. But this new FAQ says that these witchfires do.

Does "hits automatically" therefore trump the snapshots rule?

Witchfires wrote:Similarly, a witchfire power must roll To Hit, unless it is has the Blast special rule, in which case it scatters as described in the Blast special rule, or it is a Template weapon, which hit automatically.

Nova wrote:A nova power automatically targets and hits all enemy units (...)

Blast Markers and Templates wrote:To work out the number of hits, you normally need to hold the template or blast marker over an enemy unit or a particular point on the battlefield, and then look underneath (or through, if using a transparent template) to see how many models lie partially or completely underneath. A unit takes a hit for each model that is fully, or even partially, underneath the template or blast marker.

There is no To-Hit roll, in other words you automatically hit anything that's under the blast / template once it's been placed (=after scatter, for templates).