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What i'd really like and what would not happen is to reduce quantity and increase quality. Playing hordes is so annoying. I'd not mind boyz being like 9 pts a pop if they had 6++, fnp and s4. Max 20, nob per every 10 or so, special weapons include big choppas. Nobs have ld8. Something good to mob rule.

You can still do hordes but now it's a manageable amount and you're not forced to play 5+ hours every time.

9 pts for an ork with fnp of 6+ and s4 is still to much. Only need to compare with other lines of cool codex to realice. They still have a lack of weapon choices, no good transports (trukks are not as good as some people think or whant to believe), no good iniciative, poor L, the odd mob rule....


If in addition all that they raise BS to 3, then could be more or less fine for 8 pts

Strength 4 on boyz
Warbosses as large as the aos megaboss, maybe with a stat boost
Mob rule back to 5th editions

Tailessine wrote:
Strength 4 on boyz
Warbosses as large as the aos megaboss, maybe with a stat boost
Mob rule back to 5th editions

Indeed warbosses need a buff. They supposely are badasses on melee. and maybe on the paper they are. but once you play on the table, usually marine captains slice them in two cute parts very easy and before they hit with the claw. and, if you dont give the claw, their attacks "boing" on the space marine armor.


Mabe coming back the old rule of the ork melee weapons dont allowing saves better than 4+ the warbosses and orks could be scary at melee again

Anyone actually use the megaboss in 40k? I suppose 'as is' its got eavy armour, big choppa and a slugga, so not mega competitive...

Think the only half competitive is a warboss on bike with klaw and the lucky stick. Mainly because the resistance, speed and cover. The problem is on the assault, with only a save of 4+ and no invulnerable is not valid vs any other melee oriented CG of the game jaja
for that, a megaboss is better (even if the lack of invulnerable is a pain)

In any case, the warboss ALWAYS need a doktor on the same unit to give him the feel no pain. And the lucky stick to repeat the feel no pain haha

 koooaei wrote:
What i'd really like and what would not happen is to reduce quantity and increase quality. Playing hordes is so annoying. I'd not mind boyz being like 9 pts a pop if they had 6++, fnp and s4. Max 20, nob per every 10 or so, special weapons include big choppas. Nobs have ld8. Something good to mob rule.

You can still do hordes but now it's a manageable amount and you're not forced to play 5+ hours every time.

I don't quite get this argument. If things were made cheaper all over the codex it wouldn't influence players to just buy boyz, they will most likely purchase the more expensive units (more Battlewagons, walkers, special characters). Cheaper price I believe won't encourage more players to bring waves of boys, but just more rare units. Though it is about useless, I just love running the ghaz dredd mob because it's so easy to move on the table, and I would welcome room to put more stuff on the board.
Besides, fluff wise orks aren't a quality army, they are a horde army. We don't want to end up the reverse of the spacemarines (who are moderate quality with horde like numbers which is just shameful towards the fluff).
Let's keep orks/nids/guard horde and other armies quality.

While I understand that being more horde focused makes just collecting orks an expensive endeavor , but that just the nature of armies like horde, we have to pay more, but with many players selling their ork armies it isn't as bad if you just buy used.

geargutz wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
What i'd really like and what would not happen is to reduce quantity and increase quality. Playing hordes is so annoying. I'd not mind boyz being like 9 pts a pop if they had 6++, fnp and s4. Max 20, nob per every 10 or so, special weapons include big choppas. Nobs have ld8. Something good to mob rule.

You can still do hordes but now it's a manageable amount and you're not forced to play 5+ hours every time.

I don't quite get this argument. If things were made cheaper all over the codex it wouldn't influence players to just buy boyz, they will most likely purchase the more expensive units (more Battlewagons, walkers, special characters). Cheaper price I believe won't encourage more players to bring waves of boys, but just more rare units. Though it is about useless, I just love running the ghaz dredd mob because it's so easy to move on the table, and I would welcome room to put more stuff on the board.
Besides, fluff wise orks aren't a quality army, they are a horde army. We don't want to end up the reverse of the spacemarines (who are moderate quality with horde like numbers which is just shameful towards the fluff).
Let's keep orks/nids/guard horde and other armies quality.

While I understand that being more horde focused makes just collecting orks an expensive endeavor , but that just the nature of armies like horde, we have to pay more, but with many players selling their ork armies it isn't as bad if you just buy used.

+1

Several times facing marines with orks my rival was more miniatures than me, jsut because I wanted to put some kans and other ork stuff. The ork army has a lot of units fair overpriced. Is not really that "cheap" army some people say. An ork cost more or less the half of a marine....but I can tell you that is way easier kills 2, 3 and 4 orks than only one marine: a large blast on a boyz units and pray yourself to mork and gork, no mention flamers (weapons really cheap)

Is not good that (for example) an ork vehicle had a weapon equivalent to other tanks from the game but
- with the half or so of range
- less strength
- the half of BS
- a lot less of armor-plating
- being open-toped

and in addittion of all and as funny element, it costs the same or being even more expensive.

something is terrible wrong

I'd like to see codex wide points reductions, army wide 6+ fnp, klan supplements and most importantly snotling bases!

Yes, I don't agree with different stats for shootas and slugga.

All we need are reasonable points, 6+ FNP, old looted bs 2 vehicles, and Klan perks like foc manipulation and things like the speed freek rule of retreating to their trukk for overall flavor. Old choppas would be nice, but I don't see it happening.

For Kanz, well the all the Orky Walkers, I'd like to see 'Ere we Go! standard, maybe some new weapons for Kanz, Nauts become Assault vehicles, and a ramshackle type rule for them where they can ignore a hull point removal on a certain roll. Or even a hull point removed might actually cause a repair, that seems a little orky. Just keep beating it until it works. Something like when a hull point is removed, roll a dice on a 6, they roll on another chart that can do things like ignore the hull point, regain hull points, get extra movement next turn, or even an Invuln save for the turn. Sure its random, but it could be fun and add a little extra to walkers.

I'd like to see the boyz all of them get the toughness and strength they deserve, Basically the large green Brutes that they are that can Clobber but can shot for shysters.

SemperMortis wrote:

Asuo wrote:
My 5 pence.

- Bring back the old Mob rule.
- New rule for boyz mobs, if the size is over a certain point then upgrades become free, so the bigger the unit the cheaper it gets.
- Looted vechiles as currently written should be a transport option for all unit that can get a truck.
- Sort out Killer Kans.
- Bring back old Looted vechiles, ie you get ones from other codexs but with draw backs.
- Squigoths should be in the dex.
- Clans back please.
- Sort out Naughts, you can get a stompa for a few quid more, why would you take a naught with its current rules, maybe 7 hp superheavy for a few points more.

Plus plenty more thats already been pointed out.

Nobody takes Naughts right now except as fluffy fun lists. Giving it Super Heavy doesn't fix any of the MASSIVE problems it has right now, it just makes it harder to kill. They still have terrible weapons, they still have a transport capacity of 6? Why 6? and it isn't even assault so you can't do anything with those 6 models except use them like we use the Stompa currently, as extra IWND/repair rolls at the end of a turn. I would field a Naught if it was a SHW WITHOUT a point bump but even then it will be comparable to a Knight and it won't be nearly as good.

The best weapon a Naught has is the Morkanaut's KMK. But you can take 5 of those for cheaper by fielding a Mek Gun battery...which is ironically harder to kill currently then an AV13 walker.

The Naught really does stand out as a sucker piece, so many weapons that can't fire, the sucky transport feature, i wouldn't really know where to start. Since the Stompa exists in the super heavy role maybe the Naught needs to be made into somthing else, as a heavy dread it stucks, how does it compare to the forgeworld megadread?

The Naught probably should be made into a Super Heavy, if only for the fact that it fulfills basically the same role as an Imperial Knight (with the Stompa coming closer to a Warhound). They also need some serious beefing up. At the moment, their ability to put out damage is really underwhelming, and just stomps alone probably wouldn't change that.

But I also want to push back against those asking for straight point drops: our army already takes too long to play! I'd really prefer to see some rules changes that actually made our units worth their current points, not just give us yet more stuff to move around.

There are lots of ideas on this thread I could really get behind but ork strength really bugs me.
I think a nice simple change would be swap strength and WS stats. Str 4, WS 3 however furious charge for orks instead increases WS on the charge (call it something else). Its a nice little buff and could still fit the fluff. Ork hits are more likely to land on the charge and if they don't hit well with that initial overhead chop then they find it harder to hit the opponent in subsequent phases. We continue to do better damage after the initial charge. Its a nice little army wide buff as nearly everything I play is WS4 so you end up hitting on 4s anyway, WS 3 wouldn't make a difference.

So would doing the following improve the naught?
- Make it a super heavy (can fire all guns and stomp)
- Increase HP to 7
- Give it Assault vehicle and a rule that means it can deploy into assault by pushing back enemy models to allow the carried ones to fit.
- Might need a points increase not sure?

Watching the cost of the Imperial knight, the cost of naught is a robbery. It costs toooooo much having less invulnerable, less bs, less weapons (and not just less weapons, also way worst), no S D attacks, no superheavy rules....

It sucks and is a shame

Gonna echo some of the stuff i really agree with

-Make Painboys an upgrade for a random boy, like a Mek. An HW choice really limits my options
-Reduce points on big things like Kanz, Deff Dreads
-MOAR Heavy Support slots. God, I run out of these so fast

geargutz wrote:

I don't quite get this argument.

When was the last time you played 100+ footslogging boyz?

 koooaei wrote:

geargutz wrote:

I don't quite get this argument.

When was the last time you played 100+ footslogging boyz?

about 2 weeks ago But, i know what your getting at, they are rare now to find because armies have so many ways to utterly destroy cheap horde armies.

people seem to forget that a couple of editions ago, a tabling was RARE. You played the game to the very last turn to find a winner. Vehicles were durable and infantry were easier to kill, but back then Heavy Bolters were actually worth a damn because of the incredibly rate of fire! of course since then we now have the Power creep where 3 shots per model is considered above average while 4 shots is incredible for the rate of fire. Plus we have gone from S4 being the norm to more S5-7 being the norm.

In my Ork army I fire off more S5 and S7 shots then I do S4. What that has done is made infantry rather squishy. If they dont have good armor or some other mitigation ability they just die by the droves and aren't worth their points. That is why Biker armies are so popular these days, T5 is almost a necessity for troops these days, or at the least having a 3+ armor save or Jink.

For Orks and the other Horde armies though, what the power creep has done is basically invalidating their HORDE style of play. I have watched a 300 Boy Green Tide get tabled turn 3 by an Eldar Player using Scat Bikes and Wraith Knights, in 4th edition that would never EVER have happened.

I'm going to go against the grain here, and say that I actually love the new mob rule chart. Now before you guys start frothing at the mouth, let me explain. My play style uses a lot of small units. Typically at least 3 squads of 10 man 'eavy armor trukk boyz. If we were still using the old mob rule, and I got up in my opponent's face, and got clobbered in melee (say 5 out of the 10 boys died, and I only killed 2 in return), then my leadership went way down, and I'm very likely to run away, get caught and die right there. Now with the new mob rule, 5 guys die, I fail leadership, but then I roll to see what happens.

1/6 chance I just stay in and pass. Awesome.
1/2 chance I fail and die (as I don't have 10+ models any more). Not awesome.
1/3 chance I take d6 hits (average of 3.5 hits, and 1.75 wounds, and 0.875 deaths with my armor) and I pass. I probably lost a boy (or two if I didn't have armor), but I stayed in combat, did not run, and the power klaw is still alive. Awesome.

Also, I can reroll with the bosspole.

"But!" I hear you say. "That's a 50% chance to run! What good is that!?" Well you could look at it that way... or you could see that if it was the old mob rule, I'd be running 100% of the time in this situation, and I'd die. Also, bosspoles give rerolls! So it's not actually a true 50% chance, more like a 25% chance. And who out there wouldn't love to have a 75% chance to keep his boys in close combat, where they can't be shot, and keep a unit tied up?

So while mob rule could be considered worse for the old ideas of boys before toys, nowadays, the new rule is MUCH better for smaller units. Nobz, meganobz, and warbikers can actually use it! When before, we'd have a squad of 4-5 that would NEVER get a good use any rule that relies on you have 10+ boys.

I've won games when my opponent smashed into my small units, and could not budge them just because of the new mob rule.

Although, I have to say, the gazzy rule of +2 is one of the most stupid things I've ever heard, and seriously needs correcting.

So off my soapbox, for codex changes:

- Cheaper 'eavy armor would be fantastic. I'd love that. Also see if we could get 'eavy armor for other units too.

- Army-wide +1 to FNP (so 6+ base) would be fantastic, and fluffy.

- Change the cybork body rule. It seriously needs a revamp. Either change it back to the 5+ invulnerable save (as we desperately need invulnerable saves in close combat!), or make it a +1 to FNP rolls. (So 6+ normally, and 4+ with a painboy. Or if there is an army-wide +1 to FNP, then it's a 5+ normally, and a 3+ FNP with a painboy).

- Cheaper nobs: Now, while I do say this, I have to point out I have a squad of 4 nob bikers I always run that tend to be my MVPs in most games, however, them being 50 points a piece (with a big choppa), or 70 points a piece (with a power klaw) is a bit crazy. Four bikers kitted out the way I use them cost me 260 points. 260!

- Make the Gorka/Morkas Super Heavy: Also a points reduction would be nice too. But seriously, they're just as big, cost even more points, and can easily be killed by one drop pod melta squad on the first turn. They need some serious work.

I like a lot of that, the only thing I have to say is about the Mob Rule. In our last edition it was ridiculous for people to run small squads of boyz up the table, and our small squads that were required to be small (basically everything else) suffered for the old mob rule. However, the new mob rule is only a SLIGHT improvement for those units while it is a HUGE nerf for the big boyz blobs. With the changing of the rules to 7th edition they should have revamped Mob Rule to either be more reliable for smaller units without effecting big units or get rid of it entirely and give orks a flat out LD8 with Stubborn and allow rerolls with a Boss Pole.

Their is realistically only 1-2 armies that have morale problems, they are Orks and DE. DE aren't as bad off because they have decent leadership to start with, orks are screwed by it. almost every other army has some way of mitigating leadership issues. SM with ATSKNF, Elves with just stupid high leadership to start with and rerolls. Necrons with stupidly high leadership, Chaos Marines with LD 9(or was it 10 with VotLW). We either need to get rid of the entire leadership mechanic or fix the massive imbalances in it.

 Palleus wrote:
I'm going to go against the grain here, and say that I actually love the new mob rule chart.

I tend to agree as well, although I like 18 armored boy squads with painboy and nob in a battlewagon. They are fearless in combat even without a bosspole and only rarely suffer more than one wound from mob rule (t4 4+ 5++).

The only thing that is a problem is the 400 points for the unit. It is nowhere near worth that in the current game. Without the BW it's closer but almost always gets eliminated before charging.

A overpriced faction to say the least. But i would love to see the orks to be more "stronger" since they are weak. But i know some people might say they are fine and say there the ork's faction bulk and they shouldn't be bumped up. But that's what I think should be different in the new codex...
And the ork's should have a tank with treads. Like a looted leman russ. But it wasn't stolen, but in fact. Made by da mek's boyz

There are a serious problem when an unit of 30 guards with sarges are more dangerous than 30 orks with nob.

And if the orks are shotas, the guards are cheaper.