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If GW decided to do a completely new revamped codex for the Ork faction before 8th edition, what would you want to see in it? Price changes, new models, new rules what?

Personally I would like to see something happen to boyz to make them playable again. I would also like to see a pretty hefty points drop on most units. The fact that a nob biker with a power klaw costs 70pts and a veteran SM sergeant with a Power Fist only costs 56pts should tell you about how over priced Orks are.

I have a small list of things I'd like to see but I doubt it'll ever happen.
I'm not really sure what you men by Make boys playable again.
Just last week I nearly killed a Storm Surge with just shoota boys in hand to hand.
I think the most reasonable thing to hope for is just more new units maybe increasing unit sizes and if not for all units then maybe make Orks BS3.
I also don't get your example of the cost of a Nob Biker with power Klaw against a SM vet with Power fist.

I'd love for my trukks to stop exploding and killing loads of boys. I miss the old Trukk boys rule where they were only hit on a 6. Although now it's just how many models get wounded. Actually just give me back my 3rd edition codex and stick the new stuff in, I'd be happy to have my choppas back.Heck I'll even let GW leave out Stick bombas.

A tad more survivable boyz would be a good start.

Make Ghaz a monstrous creature, but because Orks he can still jump in a truck and join units.

I also don't get your example of the cost of a Nob Biker with power Klaw against a SM vet with Power fist.

Well for starters, a SM Vet Sgt has Higher BS, Higher Initiative, Higher Leadership and a better Save.
A Nob Biker has 1 more attack and and 1 more wound ....that is about it.

A Nob biker costs 20% more then a SM Vet Sgt. Why?

I'm not really sure what you men by Make boys playable again.
Just last week I nearly killed a Storm Surge with just shoota boys in hand to hand.

30 shoota boyz vs a Stormsurge in CC is still going to go in favor of the Storm Surge. 90 attacks on the charge, 60 hits and only 10 wounds. against a 3+ save and 5+ FNP means 3ish wounds out of 8. Stormsurge won't do much in return...until it stomps...and there it wipes out boyz in handfuls. Boyz will fail leadership and do another D6 wounds to themselves. Lets say 12 casualties (I would say that's about average against D3 stomps) so 18 boyz remaining, down to 36 attacks, 24 hits, 6 wounds 1-2 more wounds, and then the StormSurge Stomps again and game over for the boyz. SO either your opponent was an idiot, got unlucky as hell or conversely you got lucky as hell.

So why did I say make them playable again? because the game as it stands has far to many weapons with mid strength and numerous shots. Anything with an AP value beats Ork armor meaning that so long as you wound your probably going to kill the model in question. A great example of this is the Eldar SCAT bike which literally destroys ork boyz in droves. 3 scat bikes fire 12 times, hit 8 times and kill 7 boyz in 1 turn of shooting.

Basically boyz need some form of save or a buff to make them playable in the current edition. It used to be they were fine and were the back bone of a good ork army, now though they aren't worth anything AND the ork codex got nerfed so there are no alternatives really.

-HUGE points reduction
-Mob rule back to original rule
-Kustom stompa
-Kustom vehicels
-More weapon and equipment options for all units and HQ's
-More transport options including a flier
-Vehicle upgrade ptions that increase AV.
-Pain boy in Elite.

UrsoerTheSquid wrote:
Make Ghaz a monstrous creature, but because Orks he can still jump in a truck and join units.

Exactly what would change about Ghaz if he was a monstrous creature who could join squads and jump in transports?

He's already S10 Ap2 so smash doesn't do anything

He doesn't have 2 guns to shoot in the shooting phase

what else does MC do? give him fear?

.

SO either your opponent was an idiot, got unlucky as hell or conversely you got lucky as hell.

Yes the math wasn't on my side at all. MY friend had two Storm Surges in a unit and was trying that move shoot and them stomp in close combat thing he saw online. The stomps wiped my boys out. I inflicted 4 unsaved wounds just with HoW. So ya, I got lucky but with so many dice it's easiest just to roll for the 6's.
I don't have any issues with the SM Vet being less points than the Nob at all. (from your example) I see no reason thy should be the same costs as they aren't the same thing.
I wouldn't turn my nose up at a points Drop for a Nobs Mob. I'd like that a lot. I've used Nobs less than a dozen times ever. MANZ all the way. what is it like 41 points for a Power klaw nob in a mob of boys vs 40 for a single MANZ.
it would be good to have Nobs at least come in mobs of up to 15 or 20 and have Evy' armour.
I will say I don't like the current codex very much. Many of the HQ's should be unit upgrades.
This codex is a real downer. Part of the problem will always be the rule set as well. 5th edition combat resolution was so bad I quit playing for a few years. Sadly I'll take the mob rule chart any day over that. Although I wish it was better.
Ghazghkulls council of WAAAGH 771 points. Not having Ork mobs self destruct or flee. Priceless.

the_scotsman wrote:


what else does MC do? give him fear?

Strike at initiative

There is so much cool stuff they could do with Orks. For a start I reckon they should be able to take any vehicle from any codex as long as the model has been modelled to represent the fact that it's been looted.

Maybe have some kind of tweak to make them a bit more ramshackle and orky, and alter the bs / ws to orky profiles but I think the concept would be amazing.

If you wanted to do that, I'd just arm him with something specific beyond just 'power klaw' - naming it is both an opportunity to remove unwieldy and also an opportunity to give it something else as a 'tweak' - master crafted, shred, instant death, concussive, AP1, something like that.

Mob rule - leadership as mob size - was elegant, and I preferred it to what we have now. The only thing I'd suggest is having 'number of wounds' not 'number of models' - that way Nobz actually improve a unit's morale, and nobz units actually have a decent 'leadership'.

Well for starters, a SM Vet Sgt has Higher BS, Higher Initiative, Higher Leadership and a better Save.
A Nob Biker has 1 more attack and and 1 more wound ....that is about it.

A Nob biker costs 20% more then a SM Vet Sgt. Why?

Bad example. The Nob biker has a lower BS but his gun is twin-linked, and it's a much better gun.

He has more wounds. He has a higher toughness - such that he doesn't suffer instant death from the sergeant's power fist, in fact.

He has more attacks, and furious charge, and since he's a bike, moves faster and is more likely to get the charge - where he gets hammer of wrath. By comparison, the sergeant's higher initiative is irrelevant as he has an unwieldy weapon too.

Orks have plenty of units which aren't great, but nob bikers are one of the good ones. Footslogging nobz are a bigger (probably the biggest) problem.


If I was going to see anything be brought back, I'd like to see more of the different Klanz being a thing. I'm not sure how, precisely, but making a mob 'feel' like a Deathskull or Blood Axe mob would be nice.

Plus, super-cyboarz would be cool.

I do like the stompa, and it plays, works and looks cool. Cost-wise it could do with looking at but it's not as far out of whack as some stuff.

The orkanauts need toning up badly - making them a small superheavy walker - the ork analogue to the knight - makes sense to me. They needn't be 'better' than a knight, just different, but at the moment a primarily assault-focused walker cannot footslog across the board - but running wastes your non-trivial firepower.

What the ork codex needs most is some flavour back. Let's have some clan rules, include junkas and trakks, make the wargear do something useful.

Mechanically I think ork stats are too iconic to change so they can be fixed via wargear. Increase the number of shots that their weapons fire (very orky , compensate for poor aiming with additional firepower), cc weapons that genuinely boost effectiveness, etc.

Models - I want a new buggy based on the drawing in IA8.

The problem with 'make them cheaper' is that Ork armies already take forever to play. I'd like them to keep the model count the same, but make the Orks actually worth a damn. Our ability to do damage and take it, especially at range, just never impresses.

In particular, how does this army deal with stuff like Droppod spam lists, Tau, Necrons and Eldar? I mean, not just 'good books', but 'enemies that stay far away and shoot you and then move fast'. Assault doesn't work, as often they can move away faster than you can approach.

Sadly, I'm not convinced that GW really has a solid plan for how Orks fit into the current rules set; thus we get cheap-and-useless.

I want to see some of the stuff that has popped up for Orks in "The Beast Arises" series.

There's Ork Nobz with looted Bullgryn shields that were running point for Gretchin kamikazes. They'd lock their shields then raise the shields just enough for a tide of Gretchin kamikazes to run out through them.

There's Ork Kommandos with multi-barreled Kustom Shootas, quick descent lines hooked up to what sounds like smaller versions of the Chinork, and clad 'head to toe in black form-fitted armor that deflected energy blasts'.

I want Makari back [maybe as wargear for Thraka].

 Kanluwen wrote:
I want to see some of the stuff that has popped up for Orks in "The Beast Arises" series.

There's Ork Nobz with looted Bullgryn shields that were running point for Gretchin kamikazes. They'd lock their shields then raise the shields just enough for a tide of Gretchin kamikazes to run out through them.

There's Ork Kommandos with multi-barreled Kustom Shootas, quick descent lines hooked up to what sounds like smaller versions of the Chinork, and clad 'head to toe in black form-fitted armor that deflected energy blasts'.

That all sounds AWESOME

Proper looted vehicles
Gretchin army
Looted artillery like the thunderfire

Gork/Morkanauts should be superheavy.

Reduce the stompa's price to 500 or so.

Go back to old mob rule or un-nerf leadership woes in some other way.

Boom...playable, fun army.

Give them an army wide rage special rule. There ya go. Plus fearless (in close combat)

orks no longer have a 6+ armor save it is a 6+ fnp

painbody's docs tools reduce fnp by 2 for a 4+ fnp

cybork body is once again a 5++ and 4++ on characters (IE not all nobs just the boss nob and the warbosses/big meks as they afford a better cybork)

go back to the old mob rule of number of orks

bring back deff rollas to 5th edition rules(it was our most reliable tank popper)

 oldzoggy wrote:
-HUGE points reduction
-Mob rule back to original rule
-Kustom stompa
-Kustom vehicels
-More weapon and equipment options for all units and HQ's
-More transport options including a flier
-Vehicle upgrade ptions that increase AV.
-Pain boy in Elite.

This, except Pain boy should be a slotless HQ, like Meks.

Revamped mob rule table where rolling higher rather than lower leads to good results. (also makes WAAAGH! Ghazghkull rules bearable).

More CC weapon options (at least bring back burnas as weapons for meks/Big Meks and normal boyz as upgrade options). Big choppas with rending at the very least, some alternative to PK, even if its just another melee mode attached to it that allows you to strike at initiative.

Make Oddboyz a 1-3 per HQ slot (so Painboyz, Weirdboyz, Mekboyz - which should go up to nob stats, Big Meks would have Ld9 with T5 and 3 wounds, Warbosses should honestly have a "Warlord" upgrade that gives another wound and attack both of these changes would come with a points increase of course).

Make all nob sized models have Ld8 base, I never understood the Ld7 across the board except for Warbosses/Big Meks. Flash Gitz get 'eavy armour base again and roll D3 for AP instead.

Stormboyz get Jink.

'Eavy Armour goes to 2 ppm rather than 4. Cybork body gives back a 5+ invuln. again or at least stacks with FNP.

Make ramshackle an Ork special rule across the board (including walkers, buggies, etc.) a 5+ invuln. against anything that doesn't have armourbane, melta, ordnance or destroyer.

Fix up some of the weird ends like Boss Zagstruk and Kaptin Badrukk being HQ choices and make them like Snikrot where they don't take a slot as long as their respective units are taken. Badrukk should give his unit preferred enemy and Boss Zagstruk should have D3 HoW hits with his vulcha klaws while giving his unit MTC, maybe make his formation the one where he allows assault from deep strike (damn beakies stealing our stuff).

Cut down significantly on the points costs on things like our walkers and battle wagons alongside burna boyz with some actual decent choices on vehicle equipment like for looted wagons and we're on our way back on track for the WAAAAGH!

I'd quite like these:

Give boss nobz Ld 8, or make bosspoles let you reroll Ld checks. I don't hate the new mob rule quite as much as everyone else seems to, as it's quite characterful, but it can be catastrophic, particularly for smaller units. Maybe reduce it to D3, rather than D6 hits, on a 2-6 result? Seems odd a Nob can potentially cause his own mob more wounds than he can dish out to the enemy.

Assault vehicle for Nauts.

Points drop on burnas, non-mega nobz, power klaws, eavy armour.

4+ save for Flash Gitz

Bad example. The Nob biker has a lower BS but his gun is twin-linked, and it's a much better gun.

He has more wounds. He has a higher toughness - such that he doesn't suffer instant death from the sergeant's power fist, in fact.

He has more attacks, and furious charge, and since he's a bike, moves faster and is more likely to get the charge - where he gets hammer of wrath. By comparison, the sergeant's higher initiative is irrelevant as he has an unwieldy weapon too.

Orks have plenty of units which aren't great, but nob bikers are one of the good ones. Footslogging nobz are a bigger (probably the biggest) problem.

My comparison was a Nob biker vs a SM Veteran Sgt on a Bike. They have the same toughness, they both have TL gunz DakkaGunz are marginally better because S5 Assault 3 but they have shorter range and are still only BS2. So really I would call it a draw. The Sgt's Higher initiative only matters if he takes a Power sword instead of a PF, i didn't calculate that into the equation because i was attempting to do like for like. EG A Nob with PK on a bike vs a Vet Marine with a PF on a bike.

Orks have plenty of units which are garbage and Nob Bikers are one of them! 70 points for a single model.

The problem I see as far as bikes go for orks is that they are to expensive. Our characters Pay 25pts for a bike, our Nobz pay 27pts for a bike. Other armies only pay 15-20 why? Again nobody can realistically answer that because GW doesn't have a good reason.

I was also thinking I would like to see Stormboyz drop down to 7pts a model. That seems really cheap (1 pt more then a boy) but look at them, they are basically boyz with 12in movement which is great and all but they tend to kill themselves with that movement. Either reduce the price to 7 or keep it at 9 but give them eavy armor.

Why? Because Orks were the first codex of this edition and after that other armies got points reductions.

I'd love to see more special rules splashed onto the Orks.
Burna Boys should have fear.
Bubble chukkas should have blind or some other useful rule to let them "harm" enemy units in a way that is helpful to the boys.
I can't really see storm boys dropping that low, their maximum move with WAAAGH is what 36".

I'd also really wish for the return of big shootas and bolt on big shootas. as additions for all the trukks and wagons as well as weapons options for all the nobs and bosses.

I actually don't think orks need more special rules. Besides awesome aesthetics, orks are simple to play, more rules I think just detracts from the simplicity of orks. I would prefer codex wide price drops, allow us to field our boyz and those other units we don't often bring because they're expensive. I don't mind my units getting blown to bits if there are plenty to replace them.
Fix our walkers, they are a big part of ork identity, but they suck, either better stats or cheaper.
Other suggestions on this thread are good like shw gmorkanauts, and old mobrule.
I also think we should get some type of sumoning type thing, where we get boyz brought in after turn 2 via tellyportas or kommandoes kunnin. Just something to help replenish our numbers during a game.

What a shame GW hates orks and any of this will come


Or will come with an impressive point increase

I pretty much agree with what's been said.

1) Old mob rule back (or similar)
2) Toughen up boyz.
3) Make "naughts super heavy
4) Reduce Stompa cost
5) Nob LD to 8
6) Some reliable ranged anti-tank (even if it's short ranged). Taking out Knights is a real chore right now.

For a personal change, I'd love to see boyz go back to WS and BS 3 (ala 2nd and 1st editions), but keep the 2 attacks.

 docdoom77 wrote:
For a personal change, I'd love to see boyz go back to WS and BS 3 (ala 2nd and 1st editions), but keep the 2 attacks.

I'd only be okay with this if choppas changed to give +1S (they can lose furious charge) or they get S4 base in return. WS4 is the standard and Orks are made for fightin', so given that most of the Orks that are deployed aren't yoofs they should have WS4 IMO.

OR go the DoW route and make shoota boyz and slugga boyz distinct from one another. Shoota boyz have the WS3 BS3, while slugga boyz have WS4 and BS2.

I'm not an Ork player (at least not yet...) but I'd like to see boys get bumped up to strength 4 base. Orks are fully capable of wrestling with Space Marines (and winning), so making them just as strong as a Marine would be a logical first step in my mind. Whether or not that would necessitate removing furious charge from them I don't know.