Gitzbitah wrote:
'Civil' Unrest mobile grievance cart. Fully stocked with top hats, monocles, dueling gloves for slapping of those that wrong you, and a selection of moustaches.

You know- I bet you would clean up at just about any sporting event with that now. Even if they were just buying the gear for selfies.

Asterios wrote:

 feeder wrote:

Col. Dash wrote:
Prestor John- Sheriffs are constitutionally elected officers who while their duty is to enforce the law, they are also charged with enforcing the constitution in their domains. The 2nd Amendment falls into this domain thus why they are the ones to sign off on it. I believe this is the sheriff's duty in every state. The real kicker is that some states are shall issue states and some are may issue states. NC I believe is a shall issue state like most southern and red states. NY is a may issue state and you have to prove a reason so he may or may not issue it. In a shall issue, they shall issue the permit unless they have a good legally binding reason not to.

That's why if there ever was to be a confiscation of guns in this country, it would be up to the sheriff to decide whether that was constitutional or not and whether to enforce it. Sheriffs hold a lot of power, they and your local politicians are the ones who will have the biggest impact in your life and it pays to pay attention and vote wisely for them.

If something occurs at this rally, I doubt it will be the Black Panthers that start it. They seem to be fairly well disciplined for a rabble and listen to their leaders. If something happens it will be a lone wolf type that instigates it. The last thing the Panthers want is a massacre of some sort which really puts them in negative spotlights. They know with their guns they will be big targets. While they may talk and look all big and bad, they know they wouldn't stand for long against prepared and armored cops in a stand up gun fight.

I doubt it would be NBP vs cops. It would be NBP vs Various Rednecks for Trump. How the cops respond to that, idk.

think it might break down to NBP vs. Cops then since don't think many rednecks up that way.

as to who starts it? who knows it could be any single small item that starts something and with guns on both sides it could get ugly real quick.

 Hordini wrote:
Open carry is legal in Ohio, and they are just as free to exercise their 2nd Amendment right as anyone else. I'm not sure who is really going to be hypocritical about that. It's not like most people who support the 2nd Amendment never had it cross their minds that minorities also have constitutional rights and access to weapons.

 Jihadin wrote:
About to start Open Carry. Using my holster I used on my deployments. Not sure which side arm I want to carry though. Thinking a 10mm or just go with a 45..

 redleger wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 redleger wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Given that, historically, most gun control measures in the USA were designed to stop African - Americans from getting their hands on firearms, it will be interesting to see if the usual suspects support 2nd amendment rights for every American, or just a select few...

Given that you are not an American citizen, do you have any data to back that up?

Data? You're pulling my leg!!!

Reaching over to my bookcase, I open my American history textbooks and what do I see:

Take aim! 1831. In the aftermath of the Nat Turner rebellion, Tennesse passes gun control laws that stops freemen from owning guns. No such law was passed stop white Americans from owning guns...Arkansas followed in 1836, Florida in 1838...

Boom! southern states deny African Americans the right to own arms following the civil war and the reconstruction period.

"In the period after the American Civil War, blacks rushed to buy firearms and formed militias to protect their newfound rights. Anti-slavery activists like William Lloyd Garrison were indignant that African Americans had their right to bear arms curtailed. In a publication issued shortly after the war, the African Methodist Episcopal Church – noted the importance of the Second Amendment to African Americans: ‘We have several times alluded to the fact that the Constitution of the United States guarantees to every citizen the right to keep and bear arms."

And here's more:

"A stark illustration of the racist precedents for the idea of ‘gun culture’ can be found in an article in the Atlanta Journal, written after the Atlanta race riot of 1906: ‘Disarm the negroes… A good negro is contaminated by the possession of a weapon in a time like this; a bad negro is made very much worse the moment he places a pistol in his pocket...."

Bang! Ronald Reagan, hero of the right, as governor of California, brings in restrictive firearm controls to stop those African Americans wearing berets from getting their hands on guns.

"It is also worth remembering that the first act of the Black Panthers in the 1960s was to protest against a gun-control proposal – the Mulford Act (1967) – being put through the California legislature specifically to stop armed Panther patrols. Carrying shotguns and rifles, the Panthers continually promoted armed self-defence. Arrayed against them were Republicans Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan.."

But wait! Reagan and Nixon were heroes of the right, heroes and defenders of civil liberty, were they not? Or is this just a myth?

Fire! The NRA, during the 1960s, that fearless defender of the 2nd amendment, backed the Mulford act...

Well, I never... Who would have thought that an organisation tasked with defending the right to bear arms should itself back gun control against certain sections of American society...

I'm not having a go at you, but I do like America, its people, and I love American history...

Sadly, though, the history of the 2nd amendment is littered with clear examples of measures being passed to deny Black Americans their constitutional rights...and that in itself is anti-American...

apologize to all if it looked like I was saying non Americans should not post here, what I was actually looking for is what was posted in response, which is what I wish would happen more when I hear the "bad Americans and their gun laws" sentiment coming from many users here. I have no isue with the multi-national discussion, its one reason I hang out here since my 40k life is currently stagnant.

Now for the meat and potatoes. We as a country have come a long way, but we are not there yet. We have done deplorable things from our treatment of the native Americans to the internment camps of the Japanese American's at the start of WWII. I defend no law that is anti-group, even if that group is just a cover for bad people to do bad things. Individuals can un-earn the rights they have as Americans by doing certain acts, and proving that they can not be trusted with firearms, example federal conviction, no more weapons for you.

The 60s was ripe with open racism and segregation which tore a hole in our society. All of your examples seem to be pre 1960s, and are good examples but what about current laws. Federally, on paper anyway, we can not make those laws. American's of all nationalities are able to own any legal weapon they choose as long as they meet the requirements of the back ground check, and other local and state laws. So historically you are correct, however in reference to current times, none of those laws apply, and therefore are not real arguments to support your original claim. If we didn't want black Americans to own or operate weapons of any kind, my unit would literally have no one left to shoot the howitzers and my section would pretty much not have a job.

 feeder wrote:

Asterios wrote:



and I repeat where did Reuters get it? the other link that mentions oath keepers is not Reuters though. so there must have been something said by someone unless Reuters is making it up?

I don't know what to tell you, pal. If you're still at the stage where you refuse to believe legitimate sources like Reuters then perhaps talking with grown ups isn't for you.


Does anyone else know what the police are supposed to do in the not-unlikely event that two opposing armed groups start shooting at each other?

 Frazzled wrote:

 feeder wrote:

Asterios wrote:



and I repeat where did Reuters get it? the other link that mentions oath keepers is not Reuters though. so there must have been something said by someone unless Reuters is making it up?

I don't know what to tell you, pal. If you're still at the stage where you refuse to believe legitimate sources like Reuters then perhaps talking with grown ups isn't for you.


Does anyone else know what the police are supposed to do in the not-unlikely event that two opposing armed groups start shooting at each other?

Sure, do like they did in the Waco biker shootout, shoot the hell out of everyone, arrest the hundred or so survivors, keep them jailed for months, and then quietly bury it...

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
That's why I dislike the NRA, not because I'm anti-American, or bashing gun owners, but because they're hypocrites, a historical roadblock to giving minorities the 2A rights that they are morally, and legally, entitled too.

 feeder wrote:

 Gitzbitah wrote:
'Civil' Unrest mobile grievance cart. Fully stocked with top hats, monocles, dueling gloves for slapping of those that wrong you, and a selection of moustaches.

You know- I bet you would clean up at just about any sporting event with that now. Even if they were just buying the gear for selfies.

I think you're on to something here. You gotta cut Relapse and myself in as Creative, however.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
About to start Open Carry. Using my holster I used on my deployments. Not sure which side arm I want to carry though. Thinking a 10mm or just go with a 45..

Be a rebel, forget modern weapons and use a pistol from the Napoleonic wars. Yes, you might only get two shots a minute, but if you make those shots count

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
About to start Open Carry. Using my holster I used on my deployments. Not sure which side arm I want to carry though. Thinking a 10mm or just go with a 45..

Be a rebel, forget modern weapons and use a pistol from the Napoleonic wars. Yes, you might only get two shots a minute, but if you make those shots count

Two shots a minute? Tut tut. Someone needs to work on their drills.

A good soldier should be able to fire three rounds a minute in any weather

 Hordini wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
That's why I dislike the NRA, not because I'm anti-American, or bashing gun owners, but because they're hypocrites, a historical roadblock to giving minorities the 2A rights that they are morally, and legally, entitled too.

That's really interesting, and the example you're talking about sounds very disappointing, especially considering that the NRA did assist African-Americans with fighting the Klan on other occasions. I'm wondering why the NC case was different?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
About to start Open Carry. Using my holster I used on my deployments. Not sure which side arm I want to carry though. Thinking a 10mm or just go with a 45..

Be a rebel, forget modern weapons and use a pistol from the Napoleonic wars. Yes, you might only get two shots a minute, but if you make those shots count

Two shots a minute? Tut tut. Someone needs to work on their drills.

A good soldier should be able to fire three rounds a minute in any weather

 MrDwhitey wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
About to start Open Carry. Using my holster I used on my deployments. Not sure which side arm I want to carry though. Thinking a 10mm or just go with a 45..

Be a rebel, forget modern weapons and use a pistol from the Napoleonic wars. Yes, you might only get two shots a minute, but if you make those shots count

Two shots a minute? Tut tut. Someone needs to work on their drills.

A good soldier should be able to fire three rounds a minute in any weather

Not according to a poster awhile back... a shot every 5 seconds...

Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge, ahead of RNC

Cleveland, Ohio (CNN)The head of Cleveland's largest police union is calling on Ohio Gov. John Kasich to temporarily restrict the state's open carry gun laws during this week's Republican National Convention following Sunday's shooting in Louisiana that killed three officers and wounded at least three others.

"We are sending a letter to Gov. Kasich requesting assistance from him. He could very easily do some kind of executive order or something -- I don't care if it's constitutional or not at this point," Stephen Loomis, president of Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association, told CNN. "They can fight about it after the RNC or they can lift it after the RNC, but I want him to absolutely outlaw open-carry in Cuyahoga County until this RNC is over."

State law in Ohio allows for licensed firearm owners to wear their weapons in public. With the exception of a small "secure zone" inside and around the Quicken Loans Arena, residents, delegates and protesters are legally permitted to walk around the city -- including within its 1.7 square mile regulated "event zone" -- with any firearm not explicitly banned by the state.

Kasich, responding to the request, said: "Ohio governors do not have the power to arbitrarily suspend federal and state constitutional rights or state laws as suggested."

"The bonds between our communities and police must be reset and rebuilt -- as we're doing in Ohio -- so our communities and officers can both be safe. Everyone has an important role to play in that renewal," he said.

Earlier, he released a video offering his condolences in the wake of the Baton Rouge attack.

Loomis also said officers here would begin ramping up inspections and oversight over anyone who is holstering a weapon entering the downtown area, where the Republican convention is scheduled to begin on Monday.

"We are going to be looking very, very hard at anyone who has an open carry," he said. "An AR-15, a shotgun, multiple handguns. It's irresponsible of those folks -- especially right now -- to be coming downtown with open carry AR's or anything else. I couldn't care less if it's legal or not. We are constitutional law enforcement, we love the Constitution, support it and defend it, but you can't go into a crowded theater and scream fire. And that's exactly what they're doing by bringing those guns down there."

The first key test for law enforcement comes Monday, as the convention opens, when Citizens for Trump and Black on Black Crime, Inc., which has marched in the past with Black Lives Matter-affiliated protestors, are among the many groups that are set to protest.

Citizens for Trump is scheduled to hold a rally expected to attract more than a thousand people to Settler's Landing Park, less than a mile from where Republican delegates will be gathering at the Quicken Loans Arena.

"We've hired special forces teams for security," the group's executive director, Tim Selaty, told CNN last week, declining to specify who would provide that extra security. "The Secret Service is well aware of what we're doing and they're going to be provided with everything they need to work in tandem with the local local law enforcement."

Alfred Porter Jr., president of Black on Black Crime, Inc., a four-decade-old anti-violence group, told CNN it would not alter a planned demonstration Monday in Cleveland's downtown Public Square.

"Nothing has changed because I still feel the same way, our message will still be the same," Porter said on Sunday afternoon. "We refuse to let anybody who has a simplistic or violent or hateful message stop the type of message that we have been sending out for accountability. Our message is not to go out there and start murdering police officers."

Black Lives Matter activist DeRay Mckesson, who is not in Cleveland, told CNN, "The movement began as a response to violence and a call to end violence. And that call remains as true today as they did yesterday and it will tomorrow."

The Cleveland Police Department did not immediately respond to request for comment.

Convention CEO Jeff Larson said that organizers remained confident in the security measures currently in place and did not expect Kasich to take any new action.

"The open carry laws in Ohio haven't changed recently, it's been in effect for quite some time, they've had a number of big events that have taken place with open carry without any issues," he told reporters Sunday afternoon. "They've been planning their security around that issue."

The union has also reached out to Police Chief Calvin Williams, asking that officers -- some of whom have been positioned alone and without vehicles -- be grouped together on their patrols, especially outside of the downtown security zones.

"We're going to be doing things differently (after today's attack)," Loomis said. "Right now, the chief of police thinks it's a good idea to have one officer without a car standing at a post in various intersections all around the city? Thirty blocks from downtown? I had a guy last night standing out there by himself without the benefit of protection of a police car. Or partner. That is absolute insanity to me. There is no reason for that. We are going to demand that the police chief -- at a minimum -- make sure that we have three officers working together, watching each other's backs."

 Hordini wrote:
I understand that this is an extremely emotional time. So I hope, that when the head of the Cleveland Police Union, when he regains control of his emotions and his senses, apologizes for his blatant suggestion that the democratically elected governor of a state should suspend the people's constitutional rights for the benefit of a group of people who are supposed to defend those rights. And if he's not willing to apologize and truly doesn't understand the gravity of what he's suggested and how wrong it is, then he should step down and leave the field of anything related to police work for the rest of his life.

The situation in Louisiana is horrible and there is no justification for it, but that doesn't make it okay for the President of Cleveland's Police Union to openly call for a blanket infringement on the Constitutional rights of the public that they are supposed to serve and protect. It's embarrassing to watch.

 MrDwhitey wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
About to start Open Carry. Using my holster I used on my deployments. Not sure which side arm I want to carry though. Thinking a 10mm or just go with a 45..

Be a rebel, forget modern weapons and use a pistol from the Napoleonic wars. Yes, you might only get two shots a minute, but if you make those shots count

Two shots a minute? Tut tut. Someone needs to work on their drills.

A good soldier should be able to fire three rounds a minute in any weather

Not according to a poster awhile back... a shot every 5 seconds...

 Hordini wrote:
I understand that this is an extremely emotional time. So I hope, that when the head of the Cleveland Police Union, when he regains control of his emotions and his senses, apologizes for his blatant suggestion that the democratically elected governor of a state should suspend the people's constitutional rights for the benefit of a group of people who are supposed to defend those rights. And if he's not willing to apologize and truly doesn't understand the gravity of what he's suggested and how wrong it is, then he should step down and leave the field of anything related to police work for the rest of his life.

The situation in Louisiana is horrible and there is no justification for it, but that doesn't make it okay for the President of Cleveland's Police Union to openly call for a blanket infringement on the Constitutional rights of the public that they are supposed to serve and protect. It's embarrassing to watch.

 generalgrog wrote:
The NBPP is a black version of the KKK, so if the KKK where to announce that they were going to open carry, would it get the same press? I wonder if the NBPP would make the same "threat" for the DNC?

 Spinner wrote:

 generalgrog wrote:
The NBPP is a black version of the KKK, so if the KKK where to announce that they were going to open carry, would it get the same press? I wonder if the NBPP would make the same "threat" for the DNC?

Let me know when the New Black Panther Party starts burning crosses and lynching people, and then maybe this statement will make more sense.

Really interested to see if the police union is going to walk that statement back...

 Spinner wrote:

 generalgrog wrote:
The NBPP is a black version of the KKK, so if the KKK where to announce that they were going to open carry, would it get the same press? I wonder if the NBPP would make the same "threat" for the DNC?

Let me know when the New Black Panther Party starts burning crosses and lynching people, and then maybe this statement will make more sense.

Really interested to see if the police union is going to walk that statement back...

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Spinner wrote:

 generalgrog wrote:
The NBPP is a black version of the KKK, so if the KKK where to announce that they were going to open carry, would it get the same press? I wonder if the NBPP would make the same "threat" for the DNC?

Let me know when the New Black Panther Party starts burning crosses and lynching people, and then maybe this statement will make more sense.

Really interested to see if the police union is going to walk that statement back...

have to agree. I see a lot of this "BLM = KKK" and while I dislike the whole BLM ( I think it's a group with good intentions that is morphing into an anti-whites movement), it's nowhere near the level of the KKK.