FFG launches Runewars (Rune Wars?), their own tabletop miniatures game

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**Erebus Studios**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Two words:

Proprietary Dice

A mass wargame with its own special dice. Yeah... no thanks.

From my experience into board gaming I can say that a lot of tabletop gaming games can benefit learning from. well see how this game turns out, but FFG are one of the top companies in board gaming, they have produced several successful games , and some that have for sure struggled, but the company over all knows what it is doing and understands the importance of IP and I think they have thought their new game out quite well. (edit - this is if the rumors prove true that they are going to stop their current deal with GW, it is still up in the air at the moment and is no more than a rumor).

The minis are not of my personal taste, no grittiness and a lack of realism, but fantasy flight tends to be High fantasy focused so this is no surprise to me. I wish them the best of luck but I am sure they will do well over all. Also I think its not a bad idea for them to be leaving GW, as that company and its one IP are not going anywhere good , so better for FFG to stop spending money on a dying franchise and instead spend that money growing their own.

**ced1106**

First impressions up on BGG: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1617009/initial-thoughts-after-gencon-demo

Comparison to X-Wing: Yes, any person familiar with X-Wing or Armada will instantly recognize this as the fantasy war version of these precursors. There are dials, movement templates and dice with even the same hit graphics on them. But to call this game "Rune-Wing" would be a disservice since it isn't just the fantasy version of the same game. Similar to how Armada feels different from X-Wing, RW feels even more distinct in game play than either of these two and not just because the theme is different. The things I love about X-Wing are maintained--predetermined and hidden actions, simplified movement and combat, etc. But this is definitely a WAR game, not a skirmish. On the back of each unit's card, there are possible configurations of the units and how many movement templates can be tied together and the squads can get HUGE. It looks like you can buy four of the base sets and you still wouldn't field the largest configuration. But for those that might be scared off by this, don't be--you definitely have a very playable game with just the base set, even more so than with the base starter set for X-Wing. (We asked about tournament standards and the demo folks didn't know.)

I really like how the initiative is hidden based on which action you choose, unlike in X-Wing where the initiative of each unit is fixed and public. This makes for very interesting decisions to make because you aren't sure which units will go first, therefore your planned charge might fail because they managed to move further away before you go. Also, in RW, you don't do all your move actions and then attack--each squad or unit will move and activate on its initiative turn. Also, there is a corresponding modifier that goes with your action but you are restricted to choosing the modifier with the same color as your action (or grey that can be used with any action). ...

Comparison to other war games: This has many features of most other wargames where you have buffs and banes, charge rules, moral checks, unit special abilities, and randomness from dice rolls that can ruin the best laid strategic plans. It also looks like you can configure all kinds of army lists since points are listed on the back of the unit's card for different sizes as well as corresponding power cards that you can choose for them. If I remember correctly, there aren't any defense rolls but units have some special abilities that might make them block some of your hits. But overall, combat is resolved fairly simply and quickly so you aren't getting bogged down.

The other thing that has to be noted is the MINIS ARE UNPAINTED! Everyone at the demo was asking about this since X-Wing and Armada has pretty sweet pre-paint jobs. But for those that have never painted minis, you are going to have to learn to do it yourself (I have a tutorial video for how to do this quickly HERE) or *GASP* play with unpainted minis.surprise I can't imagine FFG would insist on painted minis for tournament play.

After the demo (which admittedly was limited to three rounds) I found RW to hit my sweet spot, similar to Deadzone (first iteration). Deadzone has simplified movement and combat but in-depth strategy. But RW is fantasy and the minis are very high quality, as to be expected for FFG. For a gamer like me, this is the war game that I have been waiting for a long time--simple mechanics but deep strategy. Also, I've found it incredibly impressive that FFG has done a relatively good job keeping wave 1 ships still relevant so hopefully this will remain true for RW where power creep kills of older units.

One other thing to note is that RW seems to be able to support multiplayer, which is a huge bonus for me since I rarely play 1v1. In fact, I demoed with a friend and due to dual dials, it was more fun for both of us to be controlling two units and coordinating together than our opponent who had to make all the decisions himself. And this was with the base set--you can imagine with larger point battles that having multiple generals or even factions could work (although the game isn't necessarily designed for it).

If you don't like proprietary dice, you're not going to like the dials...!

Spoiler:

Or, dice, I suppose.

Spoiler:

**Mymearan**

Jesus., those dials. The battlefield is going to look like a carnival.

**Vertrucio**

Those dials are placed face down during play. I rather like the concept in terms of compartmentalizing the complexity.

We'll see how it plays in practice though.

**judgedoug**

Azazelx wrote:
judgedoug wrote:
I have little interest but why does everyone keep thinking they are prepainted? Because the pics show painted minis? Does everyone think this is the same with GW? Both FFG and GW both say miniatures are unpainted. I'm wondering where the disconnect is.

Probably because X-Wing is prepainted and people have forgotten about DUST (or at least that DUST was/is merely pre-primed).

I like these models, actually. The undead especially, and the Humans look like Mantic's Basileans done right.

I think it speaks more to people making a judgment call without bothering to learn anything about what they are making a judgment call about. It took perhaps three whole seconds to read the official release news and discover that they are unpainted. It takes more time to type out an opinion about the miniatures based on incorrect information. Thanks, internet!

I agree; the humans could easily be used as Basileans. It's a shame about Asmodee's price fixing because getting a couple core sets at 35% off is a lot more desirable than getting one core set at only 10% off.

**455_PWR**

Hmm. Well ffg makes some slick board games, card games, etc (but pricey too). I think they should stick to that. They tried their hand at Dust and parted ways. This game has too many issues.

1. Too cartoony/ancient style minis. 2. Those wheels 3. Wierd dice. 4. Movement templates

Aesthetic is not for me, but maybe works for others. Templates only work in terminator genysis, but that's because that game scales from a game board to a table top wargame with rulers. The dice, tokens, and wheels? That's too much for a board game. It's like they took descent, wfb, and kow, and tried to have a problem child lol.

Maybe their next skirmish game will be more normal.

**Sqorgar**

455_PWR wrote:
Hmm. Well ffg makes some slick board games, card games, etc (but pricey too). I think they should stick to that. They tried their hand at Dust and parted ways. This game has too many issues.

They weren't creatively in charge of Dust, and only with the Dust Warfare rules (which FFG wrote) did it approach being and actual miniatures game. But RuneWars is FFG's own IP and they might be more invested in it than something where the license has to be renewed every few years.

FFG has been circling the miniatures market for years. It was inevitable. Ever since the first DOOM game, they've been getting closer and closer to a full miniatures game. X-Wing/Armada are the big hybrid games, but Imperial Assault and BattleLore 2E are more minis game than not. RuneWars takes X-Wing and moves it just a bit further towards full blown miniatures game. Unpainted, multi-pose miniatures was the last hurdle left for them to cross.

Maybe their next skirmish game will be more normal.

FFG bought the L5R license straight up, and I'd be surprised if they weren't going to make it a tent pole IP alongside Runebound, Arkham, and Android. I'd expect a bunch of L5R spin offs, including a miniatures game - especially if they ever lose the Star Wars license. So my prediction is L5R.

**Red Viper**

Very interested in this. My two favorite games right now are KoW and then various Attack/X Wing settings.

It's in direct competition with KoW, and that's going to be a tough sell for my group. Plus, KoW lets you use any models you want so it was a real easy transition.

I'm going to watch this closely, but there's no way I'm starting a new game with only two factions. Humans and Undead have zero appeal for me, but I think I'm in the minority there. Bring out some Dark Elves (I'd secretly settle for elves... don't tell FFG), or some anthropomorphic animals... and then we'll talk.

**Sqorgar**

Red Viper wrote:
I'm going to watch this closely, but there's no way I'm starting a new game with only two factions. Humans and Undead have zero appeal for me, but I think I'm in the minority there. Bring out some Dark Elves (I'd secretly settle for elves... don't tell FFG), or some anthropomorphic animals... and then we'll talk.

RuneWars (the original board game) had Daqan Lords (human), Latari Elves, Uthuk Y’llan (demons), the Undead, and neutral units like the mountain giant and razor wings. BattleLore had the same factions and units (no elves), so I'll bet RWM does as well. Rune Age, a card game, added Orcs and Dwarves. So, unless RWM pulls a BattleLore and dies three factions in, elves will probably be the fourth faction released.

**Kovnik Obama**

ced1106 wrote:
First impressions up on BGG: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1617009/initial-thoughts-after-gencon-demo

Comparison to X-Wing: Yes, any person familiar with X-Wing or Armada will instantly recognize this as the fantasy war version of these precursors. There are dials, movement templates and dice with even the same hit graphics on them. But to call this game "Rune-Wing" would be a disservice since it isn't just the fantasy version of the same game. Similar to how Armada feels different from X-Wing, RW feels even more distinct in game play than either of these two and not just because the theme is different. The things I love about X-Wing are maintained--predetermined and hidden actions, simplified movement and combat, etc. But this is definitely a WAR game, not a skirmish. On the back of each unit's card, there are possible configurations of the units and how many movement templates can be tied together and the squads can get HUGE. It looks like you can buy four of the base sets and you still wouldn't field the largest configuration. But for those that might be scared off by this, don't be--you definitely have a very playable game with just the base set, even more so than with the base starter set for X-Wing. (We asked about tournament standards and the demo folks didn't know.)

I really like how the initiative is hidden based on which action you choose, unlike in X-Wing where the initiative of each unit is fixed and public. This makes for very interesting decisions to make because you aren't sure which units will go first, therefore your planned charge might fail because they managed to move further away before you go. Also, in RW, you don't do all your move actions and then attack--each squad or unit will move and activate on its initiative turn. Also, there is a corresponding modifier that goes with your action but you are restricted to choosing the modifier with the same color as your action (or grey that can be used with any action). ...

Comparison to other war games: This has many features of most other wargames where you have buffs and banes, charge rules, moral checks, unit special abilities, and randomness from dice rolls that can ruin the best laid strategic plans. It also looks like you can configure all kinds of army lists since points are listed on the back of the unit's card for different sizes as well as corresponding power cards that you can choose for them. If I remember correctly, there aren't any defense rolls but units have some special abilities that might make them block some of your hits. But overall, combat is resolved fairly simply and quickly so you aren't getting bogged down.

The other thing that has to be noted is the MINIS ARE UNPAINTED! Everyone at the demo was asking about this since X-Wing and Armada has pretty sweet pre-paint jobs. But for those that have never painted minis, you are going to have to learn to do it yourself (I have a tutorial video for how to do this quickly HERE) or *GASP* play with unpainted minis.surprise I can't imagine FFG would insist on painted minis for tournament play.

After the demo (which admittedly was limited to three rounds) I found RW to hit my sweet spot, similar to Deadzone (first iteration). Deadzone has simplified movement and combat but in-depth strategy. But RW is fantasy and the minis are very high quality, as to be expected for FFG. For a gamer like me, this is the war game that I have been waiting for a long time--simple mechanics but deep strategy. Also, I've found it incredibly impressive that FFG has done a relatively good job keeping wave 1 ships still relevant so hopefully this will remain true for RW where power creep kills of older units.

One other thing to note is that RW seems to be able to support multiplayer, which is a huge bonus for me since I rarely play 1v1. In fact, I demoed with a friend and due to dual dials, it was more fun for both of us to be controlling two units and coordinating together than our opponent who had to make all the decisions himself. And this was with the base set--you can imagine with larger point battles that having multiple generals or even factions could work (although the game isn't necessarily designed for it).

If you don't like proprietary dice, you're not going to like the dials...!

Spoiler:

Or, dice, I suppose.

Spoiler:

I'm very stoked about this. While the miniatures are not necessarily my favourite, the game seems to be exactly what I'm looking for in a wargame, but has never really found : a maneuver-centric massed-battles game with hidden-information and easy to resolve combat mechanics.

Only two things keep me from pledging here and now to buy two cores : 1) This may means that a Star Wars wargame is on it's way. Seriously, this should happen. And you should be allowed to field x-wings miniatures to simulate the fight above the battlefield. 2) I'd like to know if there are going to be multiple cores with different factions. I like the undead, but aren't that stoked about the humans.

**frozenwastes**

I'm getting less and less patient with the table clutter of x-wing, so this game is definitely not appealing to me. The puzzle edge bases alone are a deal breaker for me. Add in those goofy double dials and proprietary dice and there's just no way I'm going anywhere near this.

As for the blocks of troops approach to a game, I think the decline of WHFB during 7th end 8th and replacement by AoS might show that the market for a game like this has shrunk significantly. Mantic's Kings of War always struck me as going after a shrinking market base and now this is going to be competing for the same pool of money.

**Kovnik Obama**

frozenwastes wrote:
I'm getting less and less patient with the table clutter of x-wing, so this game is definitely not appealing to me. The puzzle edge bases alone are a deal breaker for me. Add in those goofy double dials and proprietary dice and there's just no way I'm going anywhere near this.

As for the blocks of troops approach to a game, I think the decline of WHFB during 7th end 8th and replacement by AoS might show that the market for a game like this has shrunk significantly. Mantic's Kings of War always struck me as going after a shrinking market base and now this is going to be competing for the same pool of money.

I think you have it backward, the decline of WHFB and AOS replacement means that suddenly, for the 1st time in decades, the market for a game like this has expanded significantly.

**Sqorgar**

Kovnik Obama wrote:

Only two things keep me from pledging here and now to buy two cores : 1) This may means that a Star Wars wargame is on it's way. Seriously, this should happen.

Imperial Assault is their Star Wars miniatures game. Skirmish mode is a wargame, complete with tournaments and competitive support by FFG.

2) I'd like to know if there are going to be multiple cores with different factions. I like the undead, but aren't that stoked about the humans.

If FFG follows their release process for BattleLore, they'll release new factions separately, likely starting with the Uthuk Y'llan. The big question, for me, is whether the core box is required to play the game or if it just represents a convenient two-player starter set.

**Kovnik Obama**

Sqorgar wrote:
Kovnik Obama wrote:

Only two things keep me from pledging here and now to buy two cores : 1) This may means that a Star Wars wargame is on it's way. Seriously, this should happen.

Imperial Assault is their Star Wars miniatures game. Skirmish mode is a wargame, complete with tournaments and competitive support by FFG.

Thank you so much, I was not aware of this. Now I have change our Star Wars Rebellion-Xwing-Imperial Assault campaign to accomodate for a 4th game!

If FFG follows their release process for BattleLore, they'll release new factions separately, likely starting with the Uthuk Y'llan. The big question, for me, is whether the core box is required to play the game or if it just represents a convenient two-player starter set.

Darn, but the Dragon dudes are soooo cool.

**Zetan**

I think this is going to be a huge hit at our local store. We had a huge WFB crowd who were completely uninterested in AoS when it came out. For a while, there was a bit of uncertainty, while some of the community tried KoW, but a larger portion found it too simplistic and ended up playing 9th Age. Neither game is quite as popular as WFB was, though, and in the end, the game that attracted most of them was, surprisingly, X-Wing.

In a way, it makes sense. While KoW bears more resemblance to WFB simply looking at the table, X-Wing is actually a much closer match when it comes to the types of strategies enjoyed by a really competitive WFB player. It's all about out-maneuvering your opponent; both games can be easily won or lost on movement. The only thing it doesn't have is the hobby aspect.

Now, FFG has that covered too. Honestly, once you look past the cartoony aesthetic, the dice, templates, etc., this is the perfect replacement for WFB. Fantasy battles that focus on tactical block movement. The aesthetics will certainly prevent some people from getting into it, but I think a large portion of our players will look past it, and a few will actually be really into it.

**Tannhauser42**

I actually like the use of movement templates like the ones shown. No more having to watch someone like a hawk when they're measuring their wheels because basic geometry is a lost art. Even the commonly used wheel templates for WHFB weren't that great, as they really only worked for the block size they matched up with.

Now of someone could only find something similar to replace scatter dice with. I swear, the number of times I've wanted to bust out a protractor because the other person fails at angles is mind boggling.

**str00dles1**

Just got back from GenCon. Got to demo this game.

I'm a huge fan of battlelore, so this hit home with me. I will be buying it for sure.

Combat is very easy and gives you a lot of the same choices x wing can give you on moving.

the objectives in the game are like armada, so some screte missions and such for extra points.

They said the starter in the pics is about half what you need to play a tourney game pointswise and will be played on a 6x3.

Feel free to ask questions and I can do my best

**Kovnik Obama**

str00dles1 wrote:
Just got back from GenCon. Got to demo this game.

I'm a huge fan of battlelore, so this hit home with me. I will be buying it for sure.

Combat is very easy and gives you a lot of the same choices x wing can give you on moving.

the objectives in the game are like armada, so some screte missions and such for extra points.

They said the starter in the pics is about half what you need to play a tourney game pointswise and will be played on a 6x3.

Feel free to ask questions and I can do my best

You just convinced me. Do you think this is a simple enough wargame to appeal to boardgamers?

**SnotlingPimpWagon**

Zatsuku wrote:
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
I'm a modeler first, so no rune wars for me 100%
I'll probably read about the rules / watch batreps out of curiosity.

But imperial assault on the other hand is on my radar now!

Wait so... Rune Wars has modelling and painting and you are out on it, but Imperial Assault has neither and you are interested? That's... odd.

Rune wars look bad. As simple as that.

Imperial assault
1) a board game (not a war game)
2) painted minis from it look good
3) Star Wars

**frozenwastes**

Kovnik Obama wrote:

I think you have it backward, the decline of WHFB and AOS replacement means that suddenly, for the 1st time in decades, the market for a game like this has expanded significantly.

I think it's fragmented and shrinking. Maybe FFG's organized play can provide some cohesion bust most ranked up fantasy gamers seem split as to which way to go. Some play a previous edition of WHFB, others play a fan version, others play KoW and now others will play this. End result? A gamer base in decline with fragmented interest that keeps many localities from having a critical mass of gamers.

I'm expecting this project to be successful enough on launch that it will be a net profit for FFG, but not quite enough to sustain with multiple releases past a year or maybe two. If they use X-Wing's "wave" release schedule, I think it'll make it to Wave 3 (X-Wing is currently on Wave 10 upcoming). I hope I'm wrong though. I enjoy seeing ranked up fantasy games on the table and hopefully this will bring those games back to the forefront a bit.

**Rbb**

This seems to have unit cards and upgrade cards like xwing. I hope you don't have to buy all the releases just to get all the good upgrade cards like you do in xwing.

**Kovnik Obama**

frozenwastes wrote:
Kovnik Obama wrote:

I think you have it backward, the decline of WHFB and AOS replacement means that suddenly, for the 1st time in decades, the market for a game like this has expanded significantly.

I think it's fragmented and shrinking. Maybe FFG's organized play can provide some cohesion bust most ranked up fantasy gamers seem split as to which way to go. Some play a previous edition of WHFB, others play a fan version, others play KoW and now others will play this. End result? A gamer base in decline with fragmented interest that keeps many localities from having a critical mass of gamers.

I'm expecting this project to be successful enough on launch that it will be a net profit for FFG, but not quite enough to sustain with multiple releases past a year or maybe two. If they use X-Wing's "wave" release schedule, I think it'll make it to Wave 3 (X-Wing is currently on Wave 10 upcoming). I hope I'm wrong though. I enjoy seeing ranked up fantasy games on the table and hopefully this will bring those games back to the forefront a bit.

I doubt that FFG plans on recuperating every other disgruntled WHFB player out there. If that was their plans, they would have made some attempt at making the game compatible with the more popular ranges. If the round bases are the same size as AoS/WHFB, this could work if they sold the square bases separately.

I have no clue as to how you think you can guess the longevity of the game before it is even reviewed. I too can make guesses based on no information whatsoever : the Conquest LCG is sure to have dozens more cycles, the FFG-GW relationship has never been healthier.

**Zatsuku**

Rbb wrote:
This seems to have unit cards and upgrade cards like xwing. I hope you don't have to buy all the releases just to get all the good upgrade cards like you do in xwing.

That would kill any chance of me playing it, but also wouldn't make sense for what they are selling as a mass battle game. Upgrade cards will have to be restricted to faction or buyable in packs.

**str00dles1**

Kovnik Obama wrote:
str00dles1 wrote:
Just got back from GenCon. Got to demo this game.

I'm a huge fan of battlelore, so this hit home with me. I will be buying it for sure.

Combat is very easy and gives you a lot of the same choices x wing can give you on moving.

the objectives in the game are like armada, so some screte missions and such for extra points.

They said the starter in the pics is about half what you need to play a tourney game pointswise and will be played on a 6x3.

Feel free to ask questions and I can do my best

You just convinced me. Do you think this is a simple enough wargame to appeal to boardgamers?

I do.

It uses the moving templates, so that's a bonus. I know a lot of board gamers who hate using a ruler for traditional war games.

Most figures will be one piece. The big guys are fit together like the bigger stuff for battlelore or imperial assault.

It has simple enough mechanics to grasp quickly, but has a lot of depth. Espeically for the table top war gamer.

For example a unit of 4 skeletons might get to pick from 1 upgrade symbol, for say 16 points. While a big unit of 32 could pick from 6 different things but they cost a lot of points.

Not sure where all the hate is coming from. I feel this appeals to people also who played Warhammer fantasy, but didn't like how long it took or how boggled down it got (and the fact is was killed for AoS) and who don't like kings of war. Its movement trays with x wing rulers in fantasy.

**Davor**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Two words:

Proprietary Dice

A mass wargame with its own special dice. Yeah... no thanks.

I take it you don't like Age of Sigmar then eh?

**spiralingcadaver**

I find it a bit odd that people seem to think boardgamers don't know how to play complex games.

Regarding dislike, I think the game looks mechanically interesting enough, but kind of generic and not aesthetically very contemporary, so price will be a limiting factor.

**Davor**

I think those dials will be great for the game. I mean now we can have both sides move at the same time or at least get rid of the I do everything, you do everything. This might actually work.

**str00dles1**

Davor wrote:
I think those dials will be great for the game. I mean now we can have both sides move at the same time or at least get rid of the I do everything, you do everything. This might actually work.

Well you don't move at the same time.

Such as if I wanna do a 4 move charge it might show a 5 on the dial next to the symbol. You activate moves from lowest number to highest. Incase of a tie, whoever has the int that turn gets to activate first.

**agnosto**

str00dles1 wrote:

Not sure where all the hate is coming from. I feel this appeals to people also who played Warhammer fantasy, but didn't like how long it took or how boggled down it got (and the fact is was killed for AoS) and who don't like kings of war. Its movement trays with x wing rulers in fantasy.

It wouldn't be the internet if there weren't a small group of people jumping to conclusions over a few pictures and an incomplete idea of gameplay. No, much easier to declare it a steaming pile of gack now than actually wait until it's released and give it an objective try.

**Red Viper**

spiralingcadaver wrote:
I find it a bit odd that people seem to think boardgamers don't know how to play complex games.

I tried to get some very smart MTG and boardgame coworkers into war machine. The rules they picked up fine... It was the movement. Some just couldn't seem to move with a tape measure and would hold it backwards, others would get super detailed and take forever to move to their spots.

X wing and attack wing were the perfect middle ground. deadzone has potential, but I haven't gotten around to it.

This is looking promising.

I think I'll still play KoW with my real friends, but this game could be a hit with boardgamers and maybe more importantly... The flgs's which all regularly run ffg events already