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 Frazzled wrote:
Here is your answer. "Shunning" aka "social pressure" will improve his behavior or better yet, avoid you having to deal with it.
Or you can do what a Texan would do.

Your first game if you lose: you would notice little.
Your first game if you win you may think it is a person that had a bad day.
The second game really comes down to winning and seeing a pattern.
As long as you know your place and lose: you will never have a problem with them.
As soon as you win once: this relationship is all about Timmy showing you who is boss... until you beat him again and he writes you off.

I think the most disagreeable element is while they are trying to push you around to play unfair game rules or ban "OP" models.

I agree dealing with a Timmy the Texan solution would look very tempting, luckily a win allows one to be more indulgent.

 Purifier wrote:

 IronMaster wrote:

 Walnuts wrote:
I'm an adult, I can't even fathom trying to impress a 15 year old. That makes as much sense as getting my cat to think my outfit is 'cool'.

Walnuts, thank you for this line alone. I want to put it in my signature because of it's pure awesome.

I dunno, man. I wouldn't show myself dead in anything my cat hasn't approved of.

*ahem*



This cat has got all of you beat.

 IronMaster wrote:

-Crying Cheese why taking cheesier units

This one always gets me, if for nothing more than the hypocrisy
"Your three LRBT are OP and cheese, and those Exterminators are too cheap, your doing cheesy tank spam"
Said while he has a triple Vindicator unit supported by Invisibility casting Librarians, two Laspreds and a Landraider Terminus Ultra on the field, along with a Primarch, three Master of the Signal and more Chem weapons than you can shake a stick at.

I just have to make one correction because they are truly an awesome chapter with a very, very cool looking chapter master (FW model). It's Carcharodons.

Thankfully, I don't really have anyone like that at my store. One guy is getting on my nerves because I've been showing steps getting closer to finishing a WIP Magmadroth when he's only painted about 12 models and has assembled over 1000. He says I should stop showing it and wait until I can enter it into a contest before I show it again. That had me a little annoyed (since it happened yesterday). But, I'm over it already.

But, besides that, no real TFGs at my local GW shop. There are some ANNOYING people there, but only one WAAC player I can think of. Though, for the most part, he doesn't seem like a TFG... just a guy who plays to win (not to whine or to brag). He's definitely not the kind of person you want playing against a newbie to 40K, but he's not out to brag about how good his army is or be a sore loser if he doesn't win. I guess I'm blessed that I have a good atmosphere to play in.

And, as always, you guys are always a great help when I am assembling a new army, unit/warscroll, formation/battalion and need some advice on how to set them up.

SG

 Talizvar wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Here is your answer. "Shunning" aka "social pressure" will improve his behavior or better yet, avoid you having to deal with it.
Or you can do what a Texan would do.

Your first game if you lose: you would notice little.
Your first game if you win you may think it is a person that had a bad day.
The second game really comes down to winning and seeing a pattern.
As long as you know your place and lose: you will never have a problem with them.
As soon as you win once: this relationship is all about Timmy showing you who is boss... until you beat him again and he writes you off.

this is pretty much how Timmy works.
you see,if Timmy loses then his Ego takes a huge hit, and each loss eats away a little more of it. Timmy just has to win to feel good and superior to all others because everyone else is below Timmy.

I think the most disagreeable element is while they are trying to push you around to play unfair game rules or ban "OP" models.

Aye, it really pisses me off. Leman Russ are 'OP' but a Typhon with mass flamer spam isnt.

How many points is this?

Well, we all approach gaming looking for some satisfaction with it.

I like assembling models, it is a happy thing on it's own.
I like the models to look good so painting is agreeable.
Putting a bunch of models on the table looking all "realistic" is a happy element of gaming, it has some esthetic appeal.

I like strategy and competitive games:
It is great to do your best and pull out a win.
Even better if it is a close match.
If you lose, there is typically something to learn from it.
It is all good.

For the Timmy, they would use potato chips if they could, the win with the least effort is ideal.
They just want to win and will use the rules to beat you with them until that no longer works... then cheating is allowable.
The only thing that a Timmy has taught me:
- Know your rules, they treat it like if you do not know them you "deserve" whatever they make up.
- These are the few that deserve your "A" game no matter what, think of it as a public service.
- My favorite phrase: "Love everyone, trust no-one.". Do not make it easy for them to cheat. Keep your army and list covered till you see your opponent's list in hand. Be nice and respectful.
- Sometimes repeating "Rules as Written" is the main defense against their "fun" scenario they cooked up.

Anyway, we know them, some better than others.
I grew up with a Narcissistic mother so I know quite well these people who like to rewrite the rules to suit them on the fly.

Just say "no" and walk away and you won: it drives them crazy

Disengaging a toxic person entirely is also extremely satisfying, at least for me.

Thankfully not seen anything like this at our club. We did have one guy who would teach you a game but crush you in the most horrid way and really not give you any room for getting to grips with the game. In fact I just gave up on one system I had just started to get into as I had such a pants experience at that game.

We do tend to say what forces we are bringing when arranging games, although I find this does work to your advantage. For example I say I am bringing Imperial Guard I can gauntee that the other player will have grav, melta and haywire etc. Then they seem my full foot guard force

Yeah, my youngest son is a good sport and tends to give too many hints to his older brother in PVP games.

My eldest borders on a WAAC player and I am trying to throttle it down a notch... at least to stay within rules.

You should have seen when I told my youngest son to lie about what he chose just once: wiped the floor of my eldest. He lost his mind! I then asked why he chose that "losing" unit: because it would beat that other one... gotta have them read Sun Tzu.

Second time I said "make sure you "by accident" let your brother see what you chose on the DS game, then keep it covered and change to something else before you battle. HE LOST HIS MIND and could not find a coherent way to ask why the selection changed when he... last kinda saw it.

I had a bunch of models out and my Timmy did his usual army list swap based on what he saw and then I proceeded to use my one and only list that did not use those models... it was awesome. The great thing about this trick is for a "normal" person this would not matter a single bit.

 Selym wrote:
Some of us are good friends with these people when they aren't playing 40k.

So do something other than 40k with them. But really, I don't see how you can be "good friends" with someone who is willing to treat you like that. If a "good friend" was acting like the guy in the OP with me I'd be doing a serious reevaluation of their "good friend" status.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Some of us are good friends with these people when they aren't playing 40k.

So do something other than 40k with them. But really, I don't see how you can be "good friends" with someone who is willing to treat you like that. If a "good friend" was acting like the guy in the OP with me I'd be doing a serious reevaluation of their "good friend" status.

I suspect that these may be in play in some fashion

When someone needs to win that badly it is a core behavior thing.

All that being nice is to set you up for what they need.
I was treated SO NICE while I was a newbie loser.
As long as I remained a "loser" he would be ecstatic to call me friend.
Unfortunately they like to think they are a "mastermind" so if they lose, you must have been cheating, dumb luck or somehow the "system was against them".

In the end, you usually need to say goodbye to those folk.
You may see some lashback however since they had "invested" their valuable time in you and they feel you owe them something... great fun. Run Away!!!!!

 master of ordinance wrote:

 IronMaster wrote:

-Crying Cheese why taking cheesier units

This one always gets me, if for nothing more than the hypocrisy
"Your three LRBT are OP and cheese, and those Exterminators are too cheap, your doing cheesy tank spam"
Said while he has a triple Vindicator unit supported by Invisibility casting Librarians, two Laspreds and a Landraider Terminus Ultra on the field, along with a Primarch, three Master of the Signal and more Chem weapons than you can shake a stick at.

Yes. This. This right here. I guess I'm lucky that I don't have any TFG's at my local store, but there are a couple of unfun ones to play with: the guy who complains every army gets rerolls except his (whilst playing Necrons), the one who buys just the OP all-new models but never paints them, the guy who takes 20 minutes to place 1-2 units, those sorts of things.

I read the whole OP and can't get around why on earth you would play this guy so many times. He seems like a total witch.

 zedmeister wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Some of us are good friends with these people when they aren't playing 40k.

So do something other than 40k with them. But really, I don't see how you can be "good friends" with someone who is willing to treat you like that. If a "good friend" was acting like the guy in the OP with me I'd be doing a serious reevaluation of their "good friend" status.

I suspect that these may be in play in some fashion

Fallacy 1 is not in play. There was a "friend" who pushed me too far on this gak. And was a terrible person outside of 40k, too. Had known him since literally before I was born, as his mum is my mum's best friend.

Dude's been blocked from contacting me for the last two years.

Personally, I think there is a sense of entitlement going on with the Timmy. I dunno, I think a psychologist would probably have a term for it.

When I see gamers, as a whole, especially the young 'uns, we tend to be at the bottom of the social ladder and the 'losers' at school and in 'real' life - things change as you get older but as a whole, wargaming has a far higher ratio of the socially awkward and inept and the people that are social outcasts amongst the cool kids.

Within gaming though, you have a 'safe space' with fellow nerds who like the same thing, and it feels like you are not a loser any more. For a lot of us, gaming is that safe space and we make friends and come out of our shells over time - I know I did. We 'grow up' - well, kinda!
Where the 'timmy' comes in is where this safe space translates to a desire for empowerment, to be the 'cool dude' amongst the nerds. I'm all for personal empowerment - be a better person. Run faster, for longer, lift more weights, get better and all that stuff. Personal growth. That's all fine, normal and frankly, perfectly healthy and laudable. However, for Timmy, it's an entirely selfish experience. Maybe because he is not the King elsewhere, he needs it here. It's all about him. No one else. You are not a friend. You are a notch on his belt. You are a means to an end. Rather than personal empowerment because of personal growth, we get personal empowerment because of the disempowerment of everyone else. Timmy has to be the cool kid, with the cool toys, who is better than everyone else, and will hold it against you if you have cool toys, if you use them and if you do well. He is no longer special. Because you doing well is a slight against him. He wants the 'illusion' of competition, whereas in reality, he wants to win without trying against opponents who don't have a chance. He wants a two player game, with no one at the other controls (or rather have someone else with the p2 controls, but don't plug them in!) In effect, he is taking the mantle of the 'bully' that probably pesters him elsewhere in real life because the expression of his empowerment comes at the expense of everyone else. He only feels good when everyone else is feeling bad.

I feel sorry for Timmy. I really do. I mean, his desires, however twisted have a grain of honesty, but the execution of them is so often an extremely unhealthy and self destructive approach.

Nothing like that in my surrounding. We're more busy trying to find the balance between my unenjoyable dice defeats at Bolt Action, and my IG stomping them each time despite of all efforts too balance them to cheat, fight, cry or whine

We've got a guy close to what you call a 'Timmy'. 'Mistakes', 'thought that worked that way', etc. Keep an eye on him, he's fine.

When I read the OP though, I got confused. In MtG, a Timmy is probably closer to a fluff bunny. A Spike is closer to a power gamer. Ah well, different lingo cross games.

The Timmy we had was back in the halcyon days of 3rd Ed. who ran a severely OP Biel Tan list which consisted of 5 squads of Dark Reapers, a squad of Banshees in a Falcon for finishing off squads, a couple Vipers, 2 units of War Walkers with Star Cannons over everything that could take them, and if memory serves a Farseer whose sole purpose was to grant rerolls. He would park in a far corner and maximize firing lanes to make you pay for every second of ground you were forced to use. He'd also convince newbies that the game would be more fun if they played long ways, with the short edges being the deployment zone, and damn near 4 feet of kill zone to navigate.

He relished in slaughtering Marines for some odd reason, and on the day he declared he would never play me again, I ran Marines after he specifically asked me to run them against him. Granted, I decided to leave my Crimson Fists in the cabinet while I drug out 2,000 points of Legion of the Damned from the White Dwarf list that came out with the 3rd Ed. Eldar release. I was about every negative name a player could be at that point, and I welcomed it.

 Just Tony wrote:
He'd also convince newbies that the game would be more fun if they played long ways, with the short edges being the deployment zone, and damn near 4 feet of kill zone to navigate.

Classic Timmy
I'm actually really glad that the rulebooks these days have very definite missions with strict deployment zones

 Griddlelol wrote:
I read the whole OP and can't get around why on earth you would play this guy so many times. He seems like a total witch.

I didnt have anyone else to play initially after GW became less social andmore pushing sales. Then it ended up being a habit, even after I got into the club.

Also, it almost becomes a bit of an achievement to crush someone like that. Especially if you do it with an army he's specifically designed his army to beat.

 Just Tony wrote:
Also, it almost becomes a bit of an achievement to crush someone like that. Especially if you do it with an army he's specifically designed his army to beat.

I would say I had to "bite" on those kinds of challenges as well.
I find it a particularly satisfying win when someone cheats or pushed for more than they were "entitled" and beating them anyway.
Nice to look them in the eye and say "I know what you did, I let it happen and beat you anyway.".
They will never play you again and that is a terrific way to end it.

Yeah, it happens man. I'm lucky that where I live (Chicago) even after the closing of the Battle Bunker and almost all GW brick and mortars still has a thriving 40k community. If it did not, I'd take who I can get as far as opponents go, and there are def some people who I can think of that I'm in no rush to play against again.
That stated, don't forget events. Sometimes you can't chose your opponent!

 Just Tony wrote:
Also, it almost becomes a bit of an achievement to crush someone like that. Especially if you do it with an army he's specifically designed his army to beat.

Aye it does. Crushing him last Monday felt so good, it was a sweet revenge even though he complained throughout the entire battle about how long I was taking and that I had two LoW I still enjoyed crushing him.

 Talizvar wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
Also, it almost becomes a bit of an achievement to crush someone like that. Especially if you do it with an army he's specifically designed his army to beat.

I would say I had to "bite" on those kinds of challenges as well.
I find it a particularly satisfying win when someone cheats or pushed for more than they were "entitled" and beating them anyway.
Nice to look them in the eye and say "I know what you did, I let it happen and beat you anyway.".
They will never play you again and that is a terrific way to end it.

I'll be honest, I never did. Inevitably the actual game would be full of whining, rules lawyering, arguing about LOS etc. etc. Not worth my time.
I think the only time things got "aggressive" was one of these games. When I disagreed with a git and wouldn't budge he started to get weird.
So no, don't think its particularly worth it.

Yeah, my issue is I have a "big red button" for bullies so tend to take a run at them when I see browbeating going on.

If I was a little more able to let that kind of thing go, I would see merit in just not getting involved in the hassle.

The whining just means you are doing it right with those types.

The rules lawyering is actual no big deal, the "rule misremembering" or "rule intentional misinterpretation" is the irritating part. I just love the "state it loud and confidently" if you want to BS properly.

LOS became less of an issue with my laser pointers.

I guess if you have no particular axe to grind, just avoiding those types altogether (once aware of them) is the best method. Kinda like our motto: "Don't feed the Trolls".

 Walnuts wrote:
That stated, don't forget events. Sometimes you can't chose your opponent!

Thankfully in formal events there's usually a judge/TO to call in when TFG starts trying to cheat, and TFG can be removed from the event if they refuse to behave.

Joined to answer this thread...

My Timmy was a codex hoping chea who hid behind "fluffy" lists and extreme focus on alpha strike.

the main way he would cheat was by swapping unit loadouts after you started getting models out of your case i.e. that marine squad with the melta gun on the list actually now has a flamer when I see you pulling orks out the box. Approached him about it once or twice and he admitted it and begrudgingly accepted he did it.

anyways his list of fluffy codex hops:

5th edition he had Ironwarriors who were a siege assault company so naturally had to use Blood Angel rules with lots of dreads and good stuff.

Grey Knights came with uber cheese after this so the Ironwarriors were swapped for them, warp quake shenanigans and lots of dread knights... this one had no fluff just unashamed cheese.

Tau got updated after this so he started a Tau army (Farsight Enclaves with all suits, riptides, the works). Our group eventually refused to play this and he sold them off for....

Eldar... fluffwise corsairs who focused on hit and run raids, rules wise as many wave serpents, wraiths and pheonix lords as you can fit in. didnt really suit the theme imoho. after he got bored with this he swapped to...

Space wolves, that are sometimes raptors, and occassionally white scars and also iron hands. All depending on who he was facing. Add in the appropriate counter assassin too, some inquisition and later mechanicus, you get the picture.

Lastest codex hop was back to Tau Farsight Enclaves with lots of ethereals, breachers, suits etc etc.

I've actually left the group he plays in after our last game and joined full time to another group. I got first turn with IG and nuked about 50% of the units with markerlights, making his suits a little less effective. That apparently was an unforgivable sin so he slowed the game down to a halt, measured every shot and angle, tried to get half my units not to shoot because of LoS issues and challenged every rule from my codex I used. I asked him to play nice and stop half way through the game, he refused and continued. I walked and havent been back. New group has a mini Timmy but you cant avoid it, much happier now.

P.s. I dont claim to be perfect either =)