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Davor wrote:

 HunterEste wrote:
Ok, so I've seen this mentioned in here a few times....but what do you mean when you say "if your opponent gets a double turn, you get one next"? If this is an actual thing, can you tell me which page of the current GHB it is on? No one at my local store apparently knows this.

Double turn would go something like this. You win initiative and tell me to go first. Then you go second. Then you win initiative again but this time you decide to go first. So hence you have a double turn. Thing is, now I go second. I could win initiative and then I can say I go first, then I have the double turn.

Hope this helps.

Yes that does, thank you. I thought you guys were saying you automatically got 2 turns in a row if your opponent had just gotten 2.

I'd like to see summoning have a slight change.
You can summon back non leader units which you have payed for in your army list
Is
I have a block of 20 skellies which set up and paid for in my initial army list.they then get destroyed. I can then summon them back for "free". This way you don't punish death armies unfairly and it at least means that as a Death Player my skeleton hordes would actually become viable for a attrition style list. This combined with keeping deathless minions the same as it is now (maybe boost its range) would at least allow non flesh eater/tomb king death lists to actually have a decent chance again st a lot of the armies which currently have battle tomes.

A PDF download listing all point changes, so those on a budget don't need the new book.

Points for at least 3 new factions, i.e. released after those.


Some clarity on the summoning grey areas, esp. replaced models and horrors.

 EnTyme wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 auticus wrote:
What do i want

Actual balance or as close as we can get. So better points.
Skirmish rules.

More campaign support.

More optional house rules that make things like shooting into melee have a risk for the shooter and can hurt their own buddies.

What don't I want?
A return to crutches and obvious takes. Or should I say, more of them.

I don't want a loosening up of the balanced rules for balanced games.

We as a community say we want balance in one hand and then in the other wish we could do stuff like super summon and spam over powered spells.

Keep the balanced games balanced. Bring in optional rules for narrative games.

Basically where I'm at, with the exception of skirmish rules simply because I doubt their offering would beat Hinterlands. Of course if they could adopt that ruleset it would be great.

I'm hoping one of these days, Bottle is going to start a blog update with "So I'm on the way to a meeting in Nottingham"

Thanks for the kind words you two! And that's the dream haha!

I would like to see some non-allegiance breaking units across each alliance. Fyreslayers for Order (to represent their sell-sword status), Gargants for Destructions, perhaps Everchosen for Chaos (or undivided) and zombies or skeletons for Death.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
I'd like to see summoning have a slight change.
You can summon back non leader units which you have payed for in your army list
Is
I have a block of 20 skellies which set up and paid for in my initial army list.they then get destroyed. I can then summon them back for "free". This way you don't punish death armies unfairly and it at least means that as a Death Player my skeleton hordes would actually become viable for a attrition style list. This combined with keeping deathless minions the same as it is now (maybe boost its range) would at least allow non flesh eater/tomb king death lists to actually have a decent chance again st a lot of the armies which currently have battle tomes.

You would never see anything but death at a tournament ever again. The amount of BS you could pull with an ability like this would be insanity. Deathless minions is already one of the best abilities in the game, why in all the 9 circles of hell would extend it's range?

This wouldn't make non-competitive death armies competitive, it would make competitive death armies literally unbeatable,

 DarkBlack wrote:
A PDF download listing all point changes, so those on a budget don't need the new book.

Points for at least 3 new factions, i.e. released after those.


Some clarity on the summoning grey areas, esp. replaced models and horrors.

In a game where people regularly drop $65+ for a single set, I don't think a yearly $25 release is going to break the budget bank....I'd be grateful that codexs are at thing of the past and warscrolls are available at no cost online.

I'm honestly all for keeping the current summoning rules, but with the simple addition that any points reserved out of your list for summoning are multiplied by 1.5 when the game starts.

ERJAK wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
I'd like to see summoning have a slight change.
You can summon back non leader units which you have payed for in your army list
Is
I have a block of 20 skellies which set up and paid for in my initial army list.they then get destroyed. I can then summon them back for "free". This way you don't punish death armies unfairly and it at least means that as a Death Player my skeleton hordes would actually become viable for a attrition style list. This combined with keeping deathless minions the same as it is now (maybe boost its range) would at least allow non flesh eater/tomb king death lists to actually have a decent chance again st a lot of the armies which currently have battle tomes.

You would never see anything but death at a tournament ever again. The amount of BS you could pull with an ability like this would be insanity. Deathless minions is already one of the best abilities in the game, why in all the 9 circles of hell would extend it's range?

This wouldn't make non-competitive death armies competitive, it would make competitive death armies literally unbeatable,

Why would I extent its range? Because death heroes are fragile as hell and Death as a faction is Much more reliant on our heroes being within a certain range to a unit to give them +1 to hit in the case of skeletons.

Yeah, I don't see how not fething over Death with summoning would make them "literally unbeatable". The issue now is Death relies on its characters to do anything; without the characters, death has basically no real buffs and hits typically very weak and has low saves so can't take hits back. With the way shooting is, it's trivially easy for anything with shooting to just target characters, even when you lock them in combat, and remove the way Death replenishes/buffs their units. That's the issue at its core, you have an entire grand alliance that relies on heroes in a game that makes it super easy to snipe out heroes.

Death seems to have been balanced around the idea of being able to summon a near-unlimited supply of weak minions. Without it, they seem rather weak. I don't think anyone was ever really scared of summoning Skeletons or Zombies. The problem is summon Vargheist and Vampire Lords on Zombie Dragons, etc. Here's an idea for a new summoning rule:

Each wizard may summon one battleline unit per game at no cost provided they would normally be able to summon that unit. Any other summoned unit must be paid for with points. Units summoned for free to do not count toward capturing objectives, though they may still block enemy models from capturing them.

Thoughts?

Remove narrative play so people stop tryin to play it. No one has fun it just hurts trying to pretend it's fun.

Either erase the models or give them a book. Like fire bellies has 1 model....... And gut busters has 3. Either merge them erase them or give them a book.

 EnTyme wrote:
Death seems to have been balanced around the idea of being able to summon a near-unlimited supply of weak minions. Without it, they seem rather weak. I don't think anyone was ever really scared of summoning Skeletons or Zombies. The problem is summon Vargheist and Vampire Lords on Zombie Dragons, etc. Here's an idea for a new summoning rule:

Each wizard may summon one battleline unit per game at no cost provided they would normally be able to summon that unit. Any other summoned unit must be paid for with points. Units summoned for free to do not count toward capturing objectives, though they may still block enemy models from capturing them.

Thoughts?

I would basically just say you can't summon monsters. I don't know, it's a weird thing. I agree death feels like the balance a horde of gakky dudes that you can just keep bringing back; nerfing summoning in matched play removes that, and Death becomes the "I can replenish guys every turn" faction, but some of them (FEC in particular) have it tied to characters that are super easy to shoot off the board, so you have a horde of gakky guys that you can't brig back, can't buff and hit like a limp noddle and take hits like a paper bag.

Wayniac wrote:
Yeah, I don't see how not fething over Death with summoning would make them "literally unbeatable". The issue now is Death relies on its characters to do anything; without the characters, death has basically no real buffs and hits typically very weak and has low saves so can't take hits back. With the way shooting is, it's trivially easy for anything with shooting to just target characters, even when you lock them in combat, and remove the way Death replenishes/buffs their units. That's the issue at its core, you have an entire grand alliance that relies on heroes in a game that makes it super easy to snipe out heroes.

Well, first off the general model does not have to be a hero, it could be the champion of a large unit and thus unable to be picked out with shooting. It would still grant deathless minions because it's wording is "within 10" of the general or a hero from your army". Secondly, heroes are no longer responsible for replenishing numbers in existing units because the unit standard bearers do that, who cannot be picked out of the unit and work regardless of hero presence. Finally, while I will say that Death generally has a steeper learning curve compared to other Grand Alliances, we can see that they aren't performing poorly in the competitive scene (quite the opposite, in fact) so it's unlikely that they will need some sort of buff across the whole alliance even after the problem units are nerfed.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Yeah, I don't see how not fething over Death with summoning would make them "literally unbeatable". The issue now is Death relies on its characters to do anything; without the characters, death has basically no real buffs and hits typically very weak and has low saves so can't take hits back. With the way shooting is, it's trivially easy for anything with shooting to just target characters, even when you lock them in combat, and remove the way Death replenishes/buffs their units. That's the issue at its core, you have an entire grand alliance that relies on heroes in a game that makes it super easy to snipe out heroes.

Well, first off the general model does not have to be a hero, it could be the champion of a large unit and thus unable to be picked out with shooting. It would still grant deathless minions because it's wording is "within 10" of the general or a hero from your army". Secondly, heroes are no longer responsible for replenishing numbers in existing units because the unit standard bearers do that, who cannot be picked out of the unit and work regardless of hero presence. Finally, while I will say that Death generally has a steeper learning curve compared to other Grand Alliances, we can see that they aren't performing poorly in the competitive scene (quite the opposite, in fact) so it's unlikely that they will need some sort of buff across the whole alliance even after the problem units are nerfed.

Death aren't doing poorly? When most of deaths success is down to certain models which you can't buy anymore or a subfaction which was never really popular in the case of flesh eaters. A lot of death players like me want to be able to actually play a undead horde army and have it actually work. Even with all of the buffs certain units get from being a certain unit size or being close to a hero most of our units hit like a damn piece of wet paper. The whole point of undead in previous additions of warhammer was our units were worse than other aids equivilents however to balance this out death could summon certain units for free to use as a road block and allow is to gang up on one unit with 2 or more units and butcher it. Now gw has made us even more reliant on our heroes in a game where its easy to snipe them. Now I see 2 ways of fixing this problem death faces
Allow us to summon back units we have already paid for in our army lists for free and give our heroes either a better save or more wounds
Or
Instead of giving our heroes better saves or more wounds allow them to join units and make them more killy.

A lot of death players like me want to be able to actually play a undead horde army and have it actually work.

If you think for one second that a zombie horde army isnt viable and quite strong.. you must just have bad dice.

The whole point of undead in previous additions of warhammer was our units were worse than other aids equivilents however to balance this out death could summon certain units for free to use as a road block and allow is to gang up on one unit with 2 or more units and butcher it. Now gw has made us even more reliant on our heroes in a game where its easy to snipe them

previous additions of warhammer

There is your first problem. Its a new game. Stop complaining. Adapt and overcome. Your battleline/horde units are much much stronger now. Try not putting your heros in a position to be picked off ..BY THE WAY.. by the FEW units that can actually take out a hero from long range.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

A lot of death players like me want to be able to actually play a undead horde army and have it actually work.

If you think for one second that a zombie horde army isnt viable and quite strong.. you must just have bad dice.

The whole point of undead in previous additions of warhammer was our units were worse than other aids equivilents however to balance this out death could summon certain units for free to use as a road block and allow is to gang up on one unit with 2 or more units and butcher it. Now gw has made us even more reliant on our heroes in a game where its easy to snipe them

previous additions of warhammer

There is your first problem. Its a new game. Stop complaining. Adapt and overcome. Your battleline/horde units are much much stronger now. Try not putting your heros in a position to be picked off ..BY THE WAY.. by the FEW units that can actually take out a hero from long range.

Actually there are many things in the game that can easily deal with hordes and champion of slaanesh is right if you don't run tomb kings or mournghouls and most high rating death lists contain these without them death is not all the great at all. Also the heroes are petty terrible where they can easily get sniped hence why many who don't use tomb kings run the Vampire lord on the dragon. Even then he becomes a bigger target and there are tons of things in the game that can easily take down heroes like him.

Death without tomb kings or mournghouls are in a rut, tomb kings is how I imagined the death grand alliance would play. All of them synergize well and they can restore models via banners and wizards and some of the units are nails, the hordes hold the line while your heroes and elites are the linchpin, why do you think in the updated general handbook II almost all the tomb king options they showed us went up in points? Largely our heroes suck have you seen the generic vampire lord option? He is down right terrible? Why do you think everyone in the grand alliance death forums tell people to convert to a vampire lord on a abyssal terror?

"Death is doing well" No, Tomb Kings are. A faction that exists only via a legacy "get you by" compendium, whose models are out of production and can't easily be gotten. I wouldn't consider them even a part of Death, since they aren't. They're a legacy army that happens to be skeletons.

The problem is that Death hordes are weak, and only are not weak with characters, but it's easy to remove characters, especially characters with only a couple wounds and a 4+/5+ save. I'm speaking specifically about Flesh_Eater Courts here, thus far the only death army that has its own battletome. The characters, barring the king on monster (who is also a huge target for everything), are easy to snipe out. Crypt Ghast Courtier? 4 wounds, 5+ save. A unit of Judicators can shoot him off the board with no effort, to say nothing of any sort of hero with multiple wounds/shots. Literally there are only three things making death worth a gak: 1) Tomb Kings, who again I don't even consider to be Death since they aren't even under the Death profiles, but the Compendium Profiles along with "Bretonnia" and "The Empire" and other things from WHFB, 2) The Mournghoul, and 3) Taking like a huge amount of dudes with Ghoul Patrol so you don't need the character to replenish, and then just hope you roll enough dice that your opponent fails their saves.

Death needs help, and a huge reason why is because summoning was nerfed to gak to stop the ridiculous abuse that I think it was Chaos players doing (pink horrors summoning pink horrors etc. etc.)

Stop putting my heroes on the position they can be easily sniped? Tell me have you faced storm cast ? Maybe sylvaneth or destruction heck even chaos can easily snipe our heroes. Zombie horde is strong until you realize units with a lot of attacks which do multiple damage carve right through them and what's all the rage right now multi wound good save units which can do a lot of damage in one round of combat.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Stop putting my heroes on the position they can be easily sniped? Tell me have you faced storm cast ? Maybe sylvaneth or destruction heck even chaos can easily snipe our heroes. Zombie horde is strong until you realize units with a lot of attacks which do multiple damage carve right through them and what's all the rage right now multi wound good save units which can do a lot of damage in one round of combat.

With the way LOS rules work (i.e. super loose), it's almost impossible to NOT put heroes in position they can be sniped. Even hiding behind a building, all it takes is something moving around an angle and drawing line of sight to a portion of the body, and boom LOS (had this happen with a knight venator, he moved just enough at an angle so he could see a small portion of a haunter courtier's base who was hiding behind a large building, and shot him off the board). You can't hide behind anything with how true LOS works; models won't block, I've had people argue that flying creatures can see over everything on the table because they can fly (just fly up high enough to see), that archers can just shoot upwards at an angle to hit something hiding behind something else, etc. Making heroes integral to armies and then having it be super simple to snipe them out is a fething dumb idea, period.

Wayniac wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Stop putting my heroes on the position they can be easily sniped? Tell me have you faced storm cast ? Maybe sylvaneth or destruction heck even chaos can easily snipe our heroes. Zombie horde is strong until you realize units with a lot of attacks which do multiple damage carve right through them and what's all the rage right now multi wound good save units which can do a lot of damage in one round of combat.

With the way LOS rules work (i.e. super loose), it's almost impossible to NOT put heroes in position they can be sniped. Even hiding behind a building, all it takes is something moving around an angle and drawing line of sight to a portion of the body, and boom LOS (had this happen with a knight venator, he moved just enough at an angle so he could see a small portion of a haunter courtier's base who was hiding behind a large building, and shot him off the board). You can't hide behind anything with how true LOS works; models won't block, I've had people argue that flying creatures can see over everything on the table because they can fly (just fly up high enough to see), that archers can just shoot upwards at an angle to hit something hiding behind something else, etc. Making heroes integral to armies and then having it be super simple to snipe them out is a fething dumb idea, period.

Exactly this. Its way too easy to snipe heroes in AoS which IMO feels wrong. Even throwing them into combat doesn't help as they can still be sniped even there

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

Wayniac wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Stop putting my heroes on the position they can be easily sniped? Tell me have you faced storm cast ? Maybe sylvaneth or destruction heck even chaos can easily snipe our heroes. Zombie horde is strong until you realize units with a lot of attacks which do multiple damage carve right through them and what's all the rage right now multi wound good save units which can do a lot of damage in one round of combat.

With the way LOS rules work (i.e. super loose), it's almost impossible to NOT put heroes in position they can be sniped. Even hiding behind a building, all it takes is something moving around an angle and drawing line of sight to a portion of the body, and boom LOS (had this happen with a knight venator, he moved just enough at an angle so he could see a small portion of a haunter courtier's base who was hiding behind a large building, and shot him off the board). You can't hide behind anything with how true LOS works; models won't block, I've had people argue that flying creatures can see over everything on the table because they can fly (just fly up high enough to see), that archers can just shoot upwards at an angle to hit something hiding behind something else, etc. Making heroes integral to armies and then having it be super simple to snipe them out is a fething dumb idea, period.

Exactly this. Its way too easy to snipe heroes in AoS which IMO feels wrong. Even throwing them into combat doesn't help as they can still be sniped even there

Right. It makes it exceedingly hard for an army with limited/no range because there is literally no way to stop the enemy from shooting you to shreds AND hitting you in melee. It's my honest hope they add something to help mitigate shooting, because right now it's ridiculous.

Why are death considered so bad? I've always put death quite high on the power tree due to having Bravery 10 on everything. They don't even pay for it, I remember doing a direct comparison between Brettonian Peasants and Deathrattle Skeletons which have incredibly similar stat-lines with the skeleton being slightly better, and the Skeleton only paid 0.5pts more for ld 10.

In previous editions of warhammer, Undead were under powered stat-wise because they had to pay for the fact they never ran away but crumbled instead, allowing you to use them with clinical precision. But they don't do that here, they have similar stat-lines to everyone else except bravery 10, which they don't seem to pay for, why should they get to summon units for free?

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Why are death considered so bad? I've always put death quite high on the power tree due to having Bravery 10 on everything. They don't even pay for it, I remember doing a direct comparison between Brettonian Peasants and Deathrattle Skeletons which have incredibly similar stat-lines with the skeleton being slightly better, and the Skeleton only paid 0.5pts more for ld 10.

In previous editions of warhammer, Undead were under powered stat-wise because they had to pay for the fact they never ran away but crumbled instead, allowing you to use them with clinical precision. But they don't do that here, they have similar stat-lines to everyone else except bravery 10, which they don't seem to pay for, why should they get to summon units for free?

It's not so much "they should get to summon for free" it's that death seems to be balanced around having garbage troops that you can just have keep popping up, but that's normally tied to characters which, as it has been said, is really easy to snipe them out and remove the main benefit that Death has (i.e. bring back dudes). Summoning is just an easy thing to point out as being a way to help keep the feel of death.

Guess what, everyone has problems with their linchpin characters getting sniped with little counter play. This is not a death problem and even then making summoning free doesn't fix it, it just makes more problems. This leaky bucket has a hole in it, better add more water.

The argument that if something doesn't perform in tournaments it needs a buff is false; the viable options in tournaments right now are all overpowered. Saying 'this is bad because this overpowered thing is better' is hardly compelling.

Wayniac wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Why are death considered so bad? I've always put death quite high on the power tree due to having Bravery 10 on everything. They don't even pay for it, I remember doing a direct comparison between Brettonian Peasants and Deathrattle Skeletons which have incredibly similar stat-lines with the skeleton being slightly better, and the Skeleton only paid 0.5pts more for ld 10.

In previous editions of warhammer, Undead were under powered stat-wise because they had to pay for the fact they never ran away but crumbled instead, allowing you to use them with clinical precision. But they don't do that here, they have similar stat-lines to everyone else except bravery 10, which they don't seem to pay for, why should they get to summon units for free?

It's not so much "they should get to summon for free" it's that death seems to be balanced around having garbage troops that you can just have keep popping up, but that's normally tied to characters which, as it has been said, is really easy to snipe them out and remove the main benefit that Death has (i.e. bring back dudes). Summoning is just an easy thing to point out as being a way to help keep the feel of death.

This is the bit I don't get, a skeleton isn't any worse than a peasant isn't any worse than a clan rat isn't any worse than free guild militia isn't any worse than a Dark Elf spearman. There are tonnes of units with the same basic 4+ 4+ no rend 1dmg stat-line, each with their own specific mechanics about hordes or hero buffs, but I'd hardly say Skeletons get the worst end of the stick in that regard. Skeletons are not garbage troops in so far as they are more garbage than everyone else puts up with, in fact with Bravery 10 they are in fact *better* than the majority of garbage troops. And almost every single undead banner resurrects some models each turn, so it's not like your models don't have the feeling of returning from the grave.

I don't understand the idea that Death Heroes are more vulnerable than other heroes either. Vampires and Deathrattlers usually have a 4+ Sv, like everyone else. You could argue that FEC are a bit more vulnerable, but they also have uncounterable summoning, but vulnerable important characters might just be a design trait of that army specifically. Death models aren't actually any worse than equivilant units in other factions, except death models get bravery 10 almost for free. Why should death be given a bigger buff to bring back WHFB strengths (raising models) when it totally ignores WHFB weaknesses (crumble)? That just doesn't make sense to me.

If your point is that Death as a faction doesn't have the fancy stuff that stormcasts, sylvaneth or bonesplittas have than I can sympathise with you, but if you're arguing that your garbage units should be better than everyone else garbage AND be summonable for the SAME price then you've got a thhought process I can't understand.

I'm not even on about tournaments I'm talking about in my local store.
Death has many issues
Yes other armies have lynch pin heroes but no other army is reliant on their heroes for their synergy and buffs. Add in to the fact that unlike other aids we have no real shooting and let me tell you my 1 unit of 20 archers who hit on 5s wound on 4s damage 1 arrows don't cut it when it seems 80% of infantry units areulti would d 4+ save with a possible re roll.
Also to those of you saying everyone's troops are garbage yes but at least they aren't relying on a damn hero to give them +1 to hit and make it so most of the tie they actually get a flipping save. Why would bring able to summon back units we have paid for in our army lists be broken? Here's a clue it wouldn't and let me just say I'd happily take the old crumble when they lose combat rules back because at least then I'd have access to necromancy spells to balance out the amount of models I lose.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Why would bring able to summon back units we have paid for in our army lists be broken? Here's a clue it wouldn't .

It's hard to argue with well thought out arguments like this. The logic, evidence and cases you've provided are truly insurmountable.

Oh wait...

Have you done any research into what other armies rely on their heroes for buffs? I think you'll find it's most of them. Empire and Brettonia vastly rely on their heroes, as do Khrone Bloodbound, just off the top of my head.

No ranged units? In Vampires, sure. But Tomb Kings have a fair amount, or are you forgetting Shabti Great Bows which are 1 shot Kurnoth Hunters and Screaming Skullcatapults that do a flat reliable 4 damage and can be fired twice a turn with a Necrotec. Death doesn't have many shooting units, but it does have some. It could be argued that this weakness is balanced by having more wizards than most armies (more than Order and Destruction).

Having bad saves? Skeletons have a 6+ Sv, a 5+ against rend nothing. So against the majority of wounds they get the same save as every other chaff unit (5+). I admit they are slightly worse, but they also have a slightly better banner than most others.

And back to your original ''why would bring able to summon back units we have paid for in our army lists be broken? Here's a clue it wouldn't''. My question is why do you get this and not everyone?

Hyperbolic unbacked statements that don't look at the bigger picture don't exactly scream credibility.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Why would bring able to summon back units we have paid for in our army lists be broken? Here's a clue it wouldn't .

It's hard to argue with well thought out arguments like this. The logic, evidence and cases you've provided are truly insurmountable.

Oh wait...

Have you done any research into what other armies rely on their heroes for buffs? I think you'll find it's most of them. Empire and Brettonia vastly rely on their heroes, as do Khrone Bloodbound, just off the top of my head.

No ranged units? In Vampires, sure. But Tomb Kings have a fair amount, or are you forgetting Shabti Great Bows which are 1 shot Kurnoth Hunters and Screaming Skullcatapults that do a flat reliable 4 damage and can be fired twice a turn with a Necrotec. Death doesn't have many shooting units, but it does have some. It could be argued that this weakness is balanced by having more wizards than most armies (more than Order and Destruction).

Having bad saves? Skeletons have a 6+ Sv, a 5+ against rend nothing. So against the majority of wounds they get the same save as every other chaff unit (5+). I admit they are slightly worse, but they also have a slightly better banner than most others.

And back to your original ''why would bring able to summon back units we have paid for in our army lists be broken? Here's a clue it wouldn't''. My question is why do you get this and not everyone?

Hyperbolic unbacked statements that don't look at the bigger picture don't exactly scream credibility.

You mean tomb king units which are put of freaking productoon?
Please tell me how units which are out of production are supposed to be of any use to me.
Yes other aies do rely on their heroes but not as much as Death do I suggest before shouting down mine and other death players valid complaints you try playing a damn death army.
Also why would we get it and no one else? I never said it had to be death only it could be a change to summoning and then they can give death our necromancy spells back.

Let's be fair here, when Death gets their own battle tome they WILL get their necromancy back. Sylvaneth have their own lore, Tzeentch has 2, Bonesplitta's has their own lore. So on that front it's just a waiting game.

I have played death, I've played Tomb Kings. And Sylvaneth. And wanderers. And I've dabbled in Orcs. Death seems no more reliant on their heroes then other hero-centric lists, like an Empire Gunline or an Orc combat list.

Unless you play exclusively in GW stores, there are alternative Tomb King models you know? Kings of War has some fantastic Skeleton Archers and a nice catapult, and Tabletop Minature Solutions are coming out with an Undying Dynasties range currently.

Not to mention in the teaser pictures of the Generals Handbook 2 has Tomb Kings in the same category as Death instead of in a legacy compendium, perhaps teasing a resurgence.

I would be against a change like that. The vast majority of summonable units have Bravery 10, a stat that I think many Daemon/Death players overlook. You don't have to worry about an entire Iron Orc Brute running away, or a host of Dryads fleeing instead of tarpitting like a Skeleton would. It's not that what your suggesting is unreasonable, it's that is that a buff Death and Daemons deserve on top of their already adequate regenerative abilities? I dont think it is.