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 Ginjitzu wrote:
[
I know it's getting a bit off topic, but this thread brings to my mind two more questions:

How do you guys know so much about Games Workshop's manufacturing practices?

We don't we guess a lot. Most of the better guesses are based on experience in casting or other production methods. But they hremain guesses unless you actually work there or have some other method of knowing the production proses .




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is a good example of a guess disguised as knowledge ; ) .

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

Forge World, like most other resin casters, cast their resin in vacuum chambers, to force out the gas bubbles in the liquid resin before it cures.

I do not believe this. My experience with FW resin is that their bubbles are smaller than when I cast stuff in resin. This suggests to me that they are casting under high pressure to reduce the size of the bubbles rather that lures them out but also might make those who refuse to leave bigger, But hey this is also just a guess.

[quote=BattlegrinderBecause the other option might be to spend even more money on a metal model, or not have it at all. Ineleastic demand and exclusivity do funny things to how the market works. Try asking someone why they went with Comcast for their cable in spite of how awful they are.

I have some finecast stuff. A lot of it is garbage. Bent staffs galore.

Davor wrote:
Actually it's a good analogy. You can make your own minis as well as make your own Italian food as well. Problem is when making your own minis it will not be as good or for making your own Italian it still won't be as good as the restaurants.

No, it's a bad analogy because making models to the same standard as a professional sculpter, even a professional sculpter using a sucky material, is waaaaaay beyond the vast majority of people, either from a time investment perspective, money investment perspective or lack of skill. Making italian food to the quality of a restaurant is far more reasonable for your average person to achieve. You might not be able to make italian food to the level of a three michelin star chef, but making something as good or better than a "bad" italian restaurant is totally an achievable goal for many if not most people.

So yeah, bad analogy is bad. You're just building yourself a straw man to cut down and even a minor application of logic demonstrates that.

There really isn't any good analogies that come to mind, because there's specific reasons why complaining about FC after continuing to buy FC is a totally valid thing to do.

you either want or don't want

It's obviously not that simple and to act like that's the case is just being disingenuous.

You can want something enough to buy it but dislike it enough to complain about it afterwards. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

I'm sure finecast does sell poorly, after investing so much in to switching over to it they pretty much immediately started phasing it out. So people are very likely buying less of it, but occasionally a model comes up that you like so much you're willing to pay the premium and deal with the crappy flaws, just because you put your money down for it doesn't preclude you from complaining about the high price and crappy quality afterwards.

I have had no problems with finecast, I like it. My Typhus and don't prince rock.

To answer your question, we as the consumers paid for it, we accept or don't accept the quality. That is why they can make it.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
There really isn't any good analogies that come to mind, because there's specific reasons why complaining about FC after continuing to buy FC is a totally valid thing to do.

Cable companies, or the console market. They have exclusivity/monopolies on services or access, and if you want cable/Halo/Mario/...drawing a blank on Sony IP, you go through them and put up with them, or you don't get it.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Davor wrote:
Actually it's a good analogy. You can make your own minis as well as make your own Italian food as well. Problem is when making your own minis it will not be as good or for making your own Italian it still won't be as good as the restaurants.

No, it's a bad analogy because making models to the same standard as a professional sculpter, even a professional sculpter using a sucky material, is waaaaaay beyond the vast majority of people, either from a time investment perspective, money investment perspective or lack of skill. Making italian food to the quality of a restaurant is far more reasonable for your average person to achieve. You might not be able to make italian food to the level of a three michelin star chef, but making something as good or better than a "bad" italian restaurant is totally an achievable goal for many if not most people.

So yeah, bad analogy is bad. You're just building yourself a straw man to cut down and even a minor application of logic demonstrates that.

There really isn't any good analogies that come to mind, because there's specific reasons why complaining about FC after continuing to buy FC is a totally valid thing to do.

Nope it's not bad at all. Just because you disagree doesn't mean you are correct. You are the one who brought up making your own Italian food. So the same can be said for the mini as well. I am going by what you say and now you say I am straw manning it?

you either want or don't want

It's obviously not that simple and to act like that's the case is just being disingenuous.

You can want something enough to buy it but dislike it enough to complain about it afterwards. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

I'm sure finecast does sell poorly, after investing so much in to switching over to it they pretty much immediately started phasing it out. So people are very likely buying less of it, but occasionally a model comes up that you like so much you're willing to pay the premium and deal with the crappy flaws, just because you put your money down for it doesn't preclude you from complaining about the high price and crappy quality afterwards.

Then you go complaining to the proper people instead of whining on the internet. Again, either accept or don't. People start to need taking responsibility for their own actions. Want to complain? Perfectly fine. Want to whine about it, I guess you can do that as well. All I know as a wise Guru once said, "If it hurts when you hit yourself, stop hitting yourself.". So in other words don't whine if you keep doing you know will hurt you.

I actually haven't had any issues with any of the Finecast models I've gotten. Then again, I've only bought four total. The only problem I've had is that sometimes they just don't wanna stick together (even with superglue). I think some rubber bands would help that in the future, though. Just superglue, rubber bands, and time.

SG

 Whitebeard wrote:
I have some finecast stuff. A lot of it is garbage. Bent staffs galore.

How does a bent staff which takes a few minutes to fix under slightly hot water "garbage"?

Have you never used resin before?

 ServiceGames wrote:
I actually haven't had any issues with any of the Finecast models I've gotten. Then again, I've only bought four total. The only problem I've had is that sometimes they just don't wanna stick together (even with superglue). I think some rubber bands would help that in the future, though. Just superglue, rubber bands, and time.

SG

Bit of greenstuff helps a lot. That or pinning.

morgoth wrote:

 Whitebeard wrote:
I have some finecast stuff. A lot of it is garbage. Bent staffs galore.

How does a bent staff which takes a few minutes to fix under slightly hot water "garbage"?

Have you never used resin before?

It's a problem because it doesn't happen with plastic or (mostly) to metal models. The whole point is that its properties make it unfit for purpose. If your chosen material isn't stiff enough to hold its shape under normal conditions you're using the wrong material. Trying to excuse that with "that's how resin works" misses the point.

Slipspace wrote:

morgoth wrote:

 Whitebeard wrote:
I have some finecast stuff. A lot of it is garbage. Bent staffs galore.

How does a bent staff which takes a few minutes to fix under slightly hot water "garbage"?

Have you never used resin before?

It's a problem because it doesn't happen with plastic or (mostly) to metal models. The whole point is that its properties make it unfit for purpose. If your chosen material isn't stiff enough to hold its shape under normal conditions you're using the wrong material. Trying to excuse that with "that's how resin works" misses the point.

Then comes question of which is worse.

For example plastic by how it works SUCKS for character models as it results in ridiculously priced characters you see. We have GW's obsession with plastic to thank for 30$ characters. Misuse of material choice right there.

Slipspace wrote:

morgoth wrote:

 Whitebeard wrote:
I have some finecast stuff. A lot of it is garbage. Bent staffs galore.

How does a bent staff which takes a few minutes to fix under slightly hot water "garbage"?

Have you never used resin before?

It's a problem because it doesn't happen with plastic or (mostly) to metal models. The whole point is that its properties make it unfit for purpose. If your chosen material isn't stiff enough to hold its shape under normal conditions you're using the wrong material. Trying to excuse that with "that's how resin works" misses the point.

I'm sorry no.

Proper Finecast is way better than metal.

It's crisper, you can heat the thing and bend it to get varied positions out of fixed models, it's light so it doesn't keep on falling, and the paint fething sticks.

If you don't like it, that's your problem, but pretending that white metal was in any way better than Finecast (when it has no problems) is just wrong.

I spend a reasonable amount of time prepping my miniatures, and honestly, between bending back a metal piece or bending back a resin piece under warm water, I don't really see a difference.

Besides, a single piece miniature (with no defects) takes a lot less time to prep, including de-warping, than a plastic model with 15 pieces you need to clean individually before assembly.


I love plastic and I hate warping, I wish GW and FW would learn to cast like the best and stop shipping stuff that shouldn't make it past QC.

My first finecast models were... aweful, just aweful. I sent pictures to GW and they replaced the figures even letting me keep the original messed up ones.

latest finecast acquisition from this past Saturday a squad of legion of the damned... flawless. as has every other finecast model I have bought in the last 2 years

morgoth wrote:

Slipspace wrote:

morgoth wrote:

 Whitebeard wrote:
I have some finecast stuff. A lot of it is garbage. Bent staffs galore.

How does a bent staff which takes a few minutes to fix under slightly hot water "garbage"?

Have you never used resin before?

It's a problem because it doesn't happen with plastic or (mostly) to metal models. The whole point is that its properties make it unfit for purpose. If your chosen material isn't stiff enough to hold its shape under normal conditions you're using the wrong material. Trying to excuse that with "that's how resin works" misses the point.

I'm sorry no.

Proper Finecast is way better than metal.

It's crisper, you can heat the thing and bend it to get varied positions out of fixed models, it's light so it doesn't keep on falling, and the paint fething sticks.

If you don't like it, that's your problem, but pretending that white metal was in any way better than Finecast (when it has no problems) is just wrong.

.

And the issue highlighted here is that proper Finecast is still not easy enough to find. That means it's worse than metal in that regard so it's not as simple as saying "when it works it's great so you're wrong". A well-cast piece of Finecast is great at first but it has too little tolerance to heat and its consistency of quality is way below where metal was.

You can't seriously tell me that you believe white metal was worse in all ways than Finecast? I have Finecast pieces that simply wilt under sufficient heat and, in some cases, gravity. I have metal models that are decades old with none of those problems so I'll happily continue to disagree with your assessment.

I've had poor experiences with resin from a number of manufacturers - I wouldn't touch Finecast with a ten-foot pole.