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The problem with that set up is I lose Unit wide 4++ and a 5+ FNP without Azreal. I also lose hit and run from Celestine and Hatred From the Chaplain.

What I was thinking is if I take Sammuel instead of Celestine would the unit get Ravenwing Scout move?

No you don't.
You have only used one detachment - Wolf Claw Strike Force - is a Force Org Chart. That leaves you two more detachments/fomations you can work around.

Formation #1
Wolf Claw Strike Force
Command - Heralds
Auxiliary - Wolfkin
Core - Great Pack
675 points

Formation#2
CAD - Dark Angels
HQ St Celestine
TROOPS 2x Scouts/Tacticals
Lord of War Azrael
525 points

Formation#3
Libby Conclave
195 points

1395 points spent, three formations used.

Can't you have both Tigurius and Loth in your conclave by the way ?

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
No you don't.
You have only used one detachment - Wolf Claw Strike Force - is a Force Org Chart. That leaves you two more detachments/fomations you can work around.

Formation #1
Wolf Claw Strike Force
Command - Heralds
Auxiliary - Wolfkin
Core - Great Pack
675 points

Formation#2
CAD - Dark Angels
HQ St Celestine
TROOPS 2x Scouts/Tacticals
Lord of War Azrael
525 points

Formation#3
Libby Conclave
195 points

1395 points spent, three formations used.

Why using the Wolf Claw Strike Force? Don't get it there - the Heralds of the great wolf are not ICs anymore so you can't join them to the wolfkin. If you use the Heralds then you need to spam Iron Priests on thunderwolves with cyberwolves (you can use Champion of Fenris detachment for this) - but then you're not playing a barkstar anymore. If you play a Wolf Claw Strike Force at least add a wyrdstorm bortherhood for more psychers (but you pay 1 battle leader which is a nice punch but 5 units on foot for nothing= 300pts wasted).

With 3 sources - CAD Dark Angel (Sammael + Azrael, 5 scouts and 1 drop pod tac squad at least. You can add a chaplain or Celestine), Wulkin and then Liby conclave with tigui is the most reliable.

@Morgoth: you can't have both tigui and Loth in the same conclave, as they are from 2 different chapter tactics.

The best Barkstar is the one which has been deleted and returned to the carrying case!

the metil wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
No you don't.
You have only used one detachment - Wolf Claw Strike Force - is a Force Org Chart. That leaves you two more detachments/fomations you can work around.

Formation #1
Wolf Claw Strike Force
Command - Heralds
Auxiliary - Wolfkin
Core - Great Pack
675 points

Formation#2
CAD - Dark Angels
HQ St Celestine
TROOPS 2x Scouts/Tacticals
Lord of War Azrael
525 points

Formation#3
Libby Conclave
195 points

1395 points spent, three formations used.

Why using the Wolf Claw Strike Force? Don't get it there - the Heralds of the great wolf are not ICs anymore so you can't join them to the wolfkin. If you use the Heralds then you need to spam Iron Priests on thunderwolves with cyberwolves (you can use Champion of Fenris detachment for this) - but then you're not playing a barkstar anymore. If you play a Wolf Claw Strike Force at least add a wyrdstorm bortherhood for more psychers (but you pay 1 battle leader which is a nice punch but 5 units on foot for nothing= 300pts wasted).

With 3 sources - CAD Dark Angel (Sammael + Azrael, 5 scouts and 1 drop pod tac squad at least. You can add a chaplain or Celestine), Wulkin and then Liby conclave with tigui is the most reliable.

@Morgoth: you can't have both tigui and Loth in the same conclave, as they are from 2 different chapter tactics.

That is the current set up I have. I added a Inter Chaplain, and in stead of Sammual I am Using Celestine. What advantage does Sammael have over Celestine?

the metil wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
No you don't.
You have only used one detachment - Wolf Claw Strike Force - is a Force Org Chart. That leaves you two more detachments/fomations you can work around.

Formation #1
Wolf Claw Strike Force
Command - Heralds
Auxiliary - Wolfkin
Core - Great Pack
675 points

Formation#2
CAD - Dark Angels
HQ St Celestine
TROOPS 2x Scouts/Tacticals
Lord of War Azrael
525 points

Formation#3
Libby Conclave
195 points

1395 points spent, three formations used.

Why using the Wolf Claw Strike Force? Don't get it there - the Heralds of the great wolf are not ICs anymore so you can't join them to the wolfkin. If you use the Heralds then you need to spam Iron Priests on thunderwolves with cyberwolves (you can use Champion of Fenris detachment for this) - but then you're not playing a barkstar anymore. If you play a Wolf Claw Strike Force at least add a wyrdstorm bortherhood for more psychers (but you pay 1 battle leader which is a nice punch but 5 units on foot for nothing= 300pts wasted).

With 3 sources - CAD Dark Angel (Sammael + Azrael, 5 scouts and 1 drop pod tac squad at least. You can add a chaplain or Celestine), Wulkin and then Liby conclave with tigui is the most reliable.

@Morgoth: you can't have both tigui and Loth in the same conclave, as they are from 2 different chapter tactics.

The Heralds can look out for themselves and it's not too hard to make a ministar out of them, one libby with invisibility and they're pretty hard to stop and threatening enough to divvy up supporting fire or prevent an army from committing all their blockers to a single front. They're also powerful enough to bring down MCs, Vehicles and good sized Units by their lonesome

The biggest issue with most Deathstars is that everything is committed to that Deathstar with only a few small tax options working outside, when you come up against another Deathstar and you know they'll be locked in combat for four or five turns having something small, fast and resilient/powerful that can work alone gives you options for winning the game outside the Deathstar vs Deathstar or Deathstar vs Tarpit grind.

KnightScion wrote:


That is the current set up I have. I added a Inter Chaplain, and in stead of Sammual I am Using Celestine. What advantage does Sammael have over Celestine?

Celestine will give your a more beefy and survivable character and you can give Azrael "It Will Not Die" - no mistakes in taking her. Retaining Sammael gives you 1 guy with a jetbike to grab an objo last turn with a better reach than a normal bike.
If you don't want that turbo-boosting capability, Celestine is better: same price, gives more bonuses to the army and way more tougher.

The Inter Chaplain is nice, but you might want to have an extra liby outside the Conclave to cast that 4th power (you can even maybe squizze in Ezekiel).

@Dakka Wolf, Heralds are good - but not amazing. They can be a nice start up pack for a pure SW deathstar and pack it with IronPriests with cyberwolves - but that's it. And you can get better things for less points elsewhere (or more flexibility).

The barkstar build relies on the 40+ wolves and Azrael to make it survivable, once you miss one or the other you're not in a barkstar build anymore (which then will deviate from the topic). I agree with you that a star will mean a huge commitment of your forces, although Barkstar get the summoning mechanic which, in a clutch match by using Screamers gets you what you're looking after.