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Nathan Poe is having a field day in this thread...

Ruin wrote:
Nathan Poe is having a field day in this thread...

Who is Nathan Poe?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hm?

Was there anything inherently wrong with just deciding to pick up Eldar or Dark Eldar?

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Was there anything inherently wrong with just deciding to pick up Eldar or Dark Eldar?

I dont like them.
Dark eldar are too evil and dont like the way either of them look.

 DizzyStorey wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Was there anything inherently wrong with just deciding to pick up Eldar or Dark Eldar?

I dont like them.
Dark eldar are too evil and dont like the way either of them look.

Then just play Tau? I'm honestly confused as to what you want in an army or if you even want an army to begin with and this is all just an elaborate ruse. You need to be more specific on what you are looking for.

We know what you don't like so far:
DEldar
Eldar
SoB

And what you "like":
Female "space marines"
The Closet Communists Tau

 Tactical_Spam wrote:


Then just play Tau? I'm honestly confused as to what you want in an army or if you even want an army to begin with and this is all just an elaborate ruse.

Like I said, Poe's Law.

The real question is why someone would burden themselves having to obtain 5(?) goddamn codices. Its close to a pipe dream hoping to manage the special rules correctly, not to mention you still have to deal with One Eye Open and the varying levels of it.

Just play Dark Eldar and convert the army from there, it has a large variety of rules that generally are never seen because most want raiders and poison racks. From there you have access to Battle Brothers for two other factions.

 DizzyStorey wrote:
Okay so I have an idea for a mercenary crew! with no alliences to Tau, Terra, Space marine or any of the others!
The entire army is made up of alliance without there own civilization! A crime boss or mercenary group perhaps?

The Commander is a Sslyth warboss, cruel and vicious! ( Keep in mind i am completely new and do not know how powerful these units are and if they will work for this )
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Dark-Eldar-Sslyth

Some human mutan big muscles!
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Militarum-Auxilla-Ogryns

Some Ratling Snipers
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Imperial-Guard-Ratlings

Some Kroot infentry for good mercenary fodder.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Tau-Empire-Kroot-Carnivore-Squad
They bring some Kroot hounds
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Tau-Empire-Kroot-Hounds
Kroot Rider!
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Tau-Empire-Krootox
And a Kroot Shaper!
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Tau-Empire-Kroot-Shaper

Some Sting Wings for added lethality.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Tau-Empire-Vespid-Stingwings

-- Maybe List --

A weapon building monkey pet
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Grey-Knights-Jokaero-Weaponsmith

Razor Wings as pets!
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Dark-Eldar-Razorwing-Flock

Fenrisian wolves as pets.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Space-Wolves-Fenrisian-Wolf-Pack

A rare creature for tracking
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Dark-Eldar-Ur-Ghul

A big scary pet from a death world.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Dark-Eldar-Clawed-Fiend


ANYWAY could this work? If so what should i add or remove?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A army with no label or allience.

Are you basing you unit selection on the models you would like to use? I know the feeling - many of my thousands of models were chosen for that reason alone.

You can have the best of both worlds in a couple of different ways:

Write your story about your army - which you have already started and then have a think about how you make the army without spending large sums of money on something that may or may not be enjoyable.

Do you have any of the rules/ codexes at the moment?

The list above you could probably do with a Tau / Dark Eldar Codex but using the models you like and then you could get some games in - see what you like. I have found most people are quite willing to let people proxy etc in casual games as long as they have some idea what the model represents. You are likely to get a more favourable reaction and a game if you show up and say:

I am running a Tau / Dark Eldar list with some proxies to represent the army fluff, so they are all pretty much what you see except for the following:

Many people will not actually be interested in why you have chosen an army or specific models as long as they can play a good game and understand what it is they facing.

The whole female Sisters / male Space Marine stuff can be a sore point with some - personally I like that there are two gender specific elements of the Imperial military - I would like it a whole lot more if they did make plastic sisters - still have hundreds of pounds waiting for more such models.

GW finally realised a plastic Celestine and her two bodyguards and they are great models as well as being one of the go to Power units at the moment - hence why they often show up in Marine lists.............

Having thought some more, I think the first thing you need is not models or armies, but codicies. You're going for a very 'kitchen sink' approach and that is very discordant and confusing to follow. I think a deeper understanding of each army's mechanics is going to help you more than any advice we can give about army choices given your very wide sweep or likes.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 DizzyStorey wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Was there anything inherently wrong with just deciding to pick up Eldar or Dark Eldar?

I dont like them.
Dark eldar are too evil and dont like the way either of them look.

Spoiler:

I think its funny how you wanted to use a bunch of Dark Eldar models to make up your army. You gave me the impression that you liked the Dark Eldar.

Then just play Tau? I'm honestly confused as to what you want in an army or if you even want an army to begin with and this is all just an elaborate ruse. You need to be more specific on what you are looking for.

We know what you don't like so far:
DEldar
Eldar
SoB

And what you "like":
Female "space marines"
The Closet Communists Tau

Well what drew me to this idea was the Kroot actually not the dark eldar beasts. I just like them cause it feels cool to collect animals fromt he 40K universe ( I could even just use them as Fauna for maps i create or mission objectives )

But what drew me to this idea was the idea of an army of Xenos that do not have there own force in the galaxy like the Kroot the Sslyth, and Stingwings.

Anyway! My favourite Armies and the ones I am probably going to go with is humans.
Fem Space Marines.
Or Ragtag band of imperial guard soldiers made up of mutants and Abhumans.
And than third I like Tau cause they seem nicer than the others ( Or at least arent going to glass your planet without trying diplomacy first! ) and I dunno... theres just something adorable about them XD


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 curran12 wrote:
Having thought some more, I think the first thing you need is not models or armies, but codicies. You're going for a very 'kitchen sink' approach and that is very discordant and confusing to follow. I think a deeper understanding of each army's mechanics is going to help you more than any advice we can give about army choices given your very wide sweep or likes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
E-books are like 5 bucks... why would getting 5 codexes be hard? Just google Codex PDF and spend like a few dollars ( Or not.. )

I think the basic idea of alien merc army is perfectly fine, and with some alterations would work fine. If you're willing to include at least some Tau battlesuits (such as Riptides) it would even be quite effective.

However, I'd recommend limiting yourself to two sources (codices) at least for now. With Tau and Dark Eldar you can have a wide variety of different aliens and alien beasts. I'd recommend building the core of your force using the Tau codex, and adding some DE allies for flavour. Once you have a working army you can always expand later with some orks, ogryns or humans or whatever.

As for female marines, if you like the idea go for it. It is ultimately a rather minor fluff alteration.

 DizzyCrash wrote:

E-books are like 5 bucks... why would getting 5 codexes be hard? Just google Codex PDF and spend like a few dollars ( Or not.. )

I mean, yeah, if you get them somewhere illegally. Black Library is (to my knowledge) the only legal site to buy e-codices and they're still at least $25 USD each, typically.

Let me speak from experience and say Dakkadakka does not condone piracy. I suggest you buy whatever codices you need from Black Library.

Also... why are you on a different account? Did you get temp-banned or something?

Nope, no temp ban! Just forgot my passward and username!

And I would never admit to using sites like Utorrent to attain anything openly! I did however not know that there were no legal PDFs available for purchase, i just assumed like everything else in the modern era that they had made an E-book version available.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:
I think the basic idea of alien merc army is perfectly fine, and with some alterations would work fine. If you're willing to include to include at least some Tau battlesuits (such as Riptides) it would even be quite effective.

However, I'd recommend limiting yourself to two sources (codices) at least for now. With Tau and Dark Eldar you can have a wide variety of different aliens and alien beasts. I'd recommend building the core of your force using the Tau codex, and adding some DE allies for flavour. Once you have a working army you can always expand later with some orks, ogryns or humans or whatever.

As for female marines, if you like the idea go for it. It is ultimately a rather minor fluff alteration.

Finally! Thank you for saying that!

And yeah I should probably buy a codex.. I just dont know which to invest in first. I wish i could just study them all first before making up my mind. I really like humans, they are the most identifiable and the easiest to give little names and personalities too which... is kinda a big deal to me XD

There are Ebook versions, but they aren't cheap, sadly.

If they were I'd own every codex in the game

Also the fact that most stores dislike the aspect of printed out codices, they know its pirated and it eats into their margins by having someone with no financial ties take up table space for regular customers. You got to support them somehow they're the lifeline of the community after all.

 Quickjager wrote:
Also the fact that most stores dislike the aspect of printed out codices, they know its pirated and it eats into their margins by having someone with no financial ties take up table space for regular customers. You got to support them somehow they're the lifeline of the community after all.

I just do all my shopping online regardless.. The only board game shop I have in my town is a pretty small one with one shelf at the back of warhammer stuff, most of it is like a million years old and dont even have space wolves ( I was curious about em )

Game workshop charges a gross amount of money for the tiny resin figurines, they aren't bleeding cash. they cant cost much to make and a box of like 5 guys can cost like 60 to 80 bucks and the average entry fee to get into the game can be as high as 200 dollars.
So its a really pricey hobby. So If I buy a e-book copy I should be able to use it in a store. ( Although frankly id more likely find a ripped up old used copy and use it... Or some other way of acquiring it for a lower price investment )

No... it isn't for GW you should buy instore, but for the FLGS itself.

 Quickjager wrote:
No... it isn't for GW you should buy instore, but for the FLGS itself.

Whyyyy? I am not concerned if Scallywags stays open... its been open for 25 years in my home town its doing just fine... And its not like I play in stores I play with my friends, any time iv ever brought my magic cards to a store iv encountered smug a-holes who i can barely tolerate long enough to finish the game... One dude took my cards out of my hand and laughed at my deck... ( Lucky I didnt deck him... )
After a few encounters like that I decided it was less fun than just playing a match with my friends and siblings.

So buy from GW directly then. Get your books from EBay or BL.

I will be buying from whatever gives me "the consumer" the cheapest and most efficient service. If GW wants to compete and they indeed have the best prices than they will receive my money. But I am a big supporter of whatever way is best for the consumer, the seller has to match the buyers preferences not the other way around.

Now as far as I know they could indeed have the best prices. But if not, ebay.ca gets all my cash or Kijiji or second hand stores selling used bits. You the consumer deserve the lowest possible prices and the most convenient and efficient service providable.

 DizzyStorey wrote:
I will be buying from whatever gives me "the consumer" the cheapest and most efficient service. If GW wants to compete and they indeed have the best prices than they will receive my money. But I am a big supporter of whatever way is best for the consumer, the seller has to match the buyers preferences not the other way around.

Now as far as I know they could indeed have the best prices. But if not, ebay.ca gets all my cash or Kijiji or second hand stores selling used bits. You the consumer deserve the lowest possible prices and the most convenient and efficient service providable.

I think Tactical_Spam is just passing on the official and legal advice on Dakka.

On Dakka, I don't believe it's permitted to support illegal copies and piracy on this site, end of.

It's like recasts - we can't outright support them, due to their dubious legality.

And no, as the consumer, I do not deserve the lowest possible price - I am allowed the freedom to choose my product and the right of fair trade. I don't deserve anything.

So its a really pricey hobby. So If I buy a e-book copy I should be able to use it in a store. ( Although frankly id more likely find a ripped up old used copy and use it... Or some other way of acquiring it for a lower price investment )

The store owner has no obligation to let you use it. It's a fake copy, akin to a recast, and they are well within their rights to deny it's use.

If I showed up to a GW store with recast models, and a photocopied codex, you think they should let me play when I've essentially pirated their stock?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 DizzyStorey wrote:
I will be buying from whatever gives me "the consumer" the cheapest and most efficient service. If GW wants to compete and they indeed have the best prices than they will receive my money. But I am a big supporter of whatever way is best for the consumer, the seller has to match the buyers preferences not the other way around.

Now as far as I know they could indeed have the best prices. But if not, ebay.ca gets all my cash or Kijiji or second hand stores selling used bits. You the consumer deserve the lowest possible prices and the most convenient and efficient service providable.

I think Tactical_Spam is just passing on the official and legal advice on Dakka.

That and I like to shill for GW.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 DizzyStorey wrote:
I will be buying from whatever gives me "the consumer" the cheapest and most efficient service. If GW wants to compete and they indeed have the best prices than they will receive my money. But I am a big supporter of whatever way is best for the consumer, the seller has to match the buyers preferences not the other way around.

Now as far as I know they could indeed have the best prices. But if not, ebay.ca gets all my cash or Kijiji or second hand stores selling used bits. You the consumer deserve the lowest possible prices and the most convenient and efficient service providable.

I think Tactical_Spam is just passing on the official and legal advice on Dakka.

On Dakka, I don't believe it's permitted to support illegal copies and piracy on this site, end of.

It's like recasts - we can't outright support them, due to their dubious legality.

And no, as the consumer, I do not deserve the lowest possible price - I am allowed the freedom to choose my product and the right of fair trade. I don't deserve anything.

So its a really pricey hobby. So If I buy a e-book copy I should be able to use it in a store. ( Although frankly id more likely find a ripped up old used copy and use it... Or some other way of acquiring it for a lower price investment )

The store owner has no obligation to let you use it. It's a fake copy, akin to a recast, and they are well within their rights to deny it's use.

If I showed up to a GW store with recast models, and a photocopied codex, you think they should let me play when I've essentially pirated their stock?

Obligated to let me use? ... Iv never even seen a games workshop store in my life, why would i care what they let me use?
And I stand by what i said, consumer deserves the best possible service, you dont owe a company or store anything. I am not supporting anything illigal unless you count buying used goods illegal.

But yeah. for people who dont care about playing with strangers ( Or like me and have never even seen a GW store in there lives or new they existed ) than that sounds rediculous, i am sure the little hobby shops i go to wouldnt tell me to leave for using my computer to check rules. or whatever models i want. i mean that store makes money off of a million different products and have been run by a mom and pop for like 30 years, they know everyone and cant imagine them caring.

 DizzyStorey wrote:
[

Obligated to let me use? ... Iv never even seen a games workshop store in my life, why would i care what they let me use?

...and the FLGS?

Whether it is a GW store has nothing to do with it.

Nothing sexist about space marines being all male. It's established in the fluff why they can't be female in the first place. Also, I never saw you complain that sisters of battle are all female? There's established fluff as to why they're female, but that's sexist right?

Point of order- codex compliant Astartes are male. There is, however, nothing stopping a renegade apothecary from making female Space Marines at all. The Imperium is gak and inherently sexist, but you don't have to be a pure Imperial loyalist. The initial game concept was an 80s British Dredd-style parody of macho scifi tropes. People tend to take it too seriously.

Long story short, it's your army so do what makes you happy I'd love to do some female Chaos marines. Some local warlords who got bumped up the foodchain and given the required surgeries to wear power armour would be great fun for some Chaos Chosen.

Regarding a hodgepodge list, I'd recommend seeing what you can do with existing lines and proxies, for example:

Inquisition/imperial agents or w/e it's called now has a ton of variety and squad customizability
the combined Eldars could pretty easily represent any fast/elite-ish list of specialists
deathwatch is made of squad specialists if going for something heavier/smaller

I think the big things to consider are making guys distinct and figure out a system of representing different types of guys.



On the female space marine front, it isn't canon, but canon on that front is also pretty lame, from some pretty transparent old power fantasy stuff. If you want to do it, go for it. If you're going to a game store or whatever, just be ready with something to explain it. Probably safest along the lines of "I felt like tweaking the setting for my army" or "this is how I thought about my version of the setting." Just try to avoid anything that evolves into an argument over the fluff, since it isn't canon and nerds aren't the best at accepting that, but hopefully if you shift it to "homebrew" territory, it won't be a problem.

It seems like some unkind words were said before and derailed the thread a bit so I'm just gonna give my 2 cents on the original post and some public service announcements.

Some of the options you want are not possible as while Warhammer 40k does have an "unbound" format, it is only in reference to army composition. You still need to obey all unit requirements. That said, some of the advice you got on the first page is somewhat skewed or flat out wrong.

The Sslyth is part of the Court of the Archon, but the FAQ (last I checked) clarified that the Archon isn't necessary to field one; having an Archon just makes it so that they don't take up a HQ slot otherwise. They also have a minimum squad size of 1, so it's perfectly legal to field a single Sslyth as your "HQ". Just be aware that he will lack a lot of rules and other benefits genuine independent characters and HQ get. Namely he does NOT have the "Character" rule, so if you have any other models with the character rule (sergeants, special characters, other independent characters) then they will be forced to be the warlord. In addition the Sslyth will also not get a Warlord trait for the same reason (he's not a character).

The Ur-Ghul is also part of the court of the archon, and thus can be fielded on it's own without the beastmaster. I think most people got this one confused with the Khymera. In addition the Beast Master is no longer required to field the unit with the Khymera, Clawed Fiend and Razorflock, but it's not advised to do so without him as their leadership is so bad that if they ever need to take a Morale check without their master, they will pretty much run off the board (especially the Razorflock and Khymera, as those buggers are fast).

Finally, people have pointed out that deployment will be an issue. My response is if you know the units inside out and have a decent plan for them (and keep them outside the "I will stab you for giggles" range from each other) then it can work. Melee and Ranged units can be far away from each other due to the nature of their work and can help each other without ever getting close to one another. If you want to field an army like this for the sake of the theme, you gotta be prepared to do some serious tactical limboing, but it can be worth it. This is coming from a guy who once fielded Genestealers alongside Imperials (and I didn't lose that badly either) before the genestealer cult was a thing.

On the subject of where to get codexes, I just like to point out that we as Dakka never wish to endorse or even talk about illegal sources. This is not us being dicks, but GW has closed down forums and communities for such infringement in the past and we're much more willing to throw the offender under the bus rather than have the entire community go down for it. So please don't bring them up.

That said, where the OP wants to purchase his/her codexes is completely up to them. It's their money and if they don't feel like buying from a FLGS, we shouldn't guilt them into it. FLGS should survive, but not on panhandling like this. They should do so on their own merits and services. My FLGS gave me great deals and so I will make an infrequent expensive purchase now and again to show my support, but that is under my own volition and because I want to reward them for great service, not because they're running late on the bill payments.