Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Have you seen how insane the "Skaven don't exist" meme is with the fans?

CA's just playing on that.

I suspect that its because the Skaven don't directly fit into the Vortex theme of the game. The two elven races and the Slaan all have immediate reasons to be interested in the Vortex. The Skaven, however, do not.

Or, at least not yet...

It's also possible that the work on the Skaven isn't as far along.

Stupid man-thing, Skaven do not-not exist no-no, go back to dream-sleep, and ignore the gnaw-burrow sounds, they are delusion yes-yes.

Skaven and the vortex is easily explained. Skaven hate Lizardmen. Destroying the vortex means daemon invasion. Skaven might profit from that and else they certainly don't give a flying feth about consequences.

Well they did blow up the chaos moon in order to get the warpstone quicker. Like continent size chunks landing everywhere quicker, but a dead toad saw to that one. Spoilsport.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They cant make Skaven paid DLC, but they can launch with three new factions, a limited Skaven roster (similar to Chaos without the DLC) and use Skaven as the 'generous' FLC playable race later. and you still get four new factions at release in game..

The advantages of this is that it keeps the portal campaign a three way, with Skaven being a major nuisance in Lustria rather than a major component, and means the FLC when it comes places the bulk of Skaven campaign in the Old World where it belongs.

For Skaven if Thanquol is not one of the legendary lords they are doing it wrong, and Thanquol is not New World based. Queek Headtaker is the main contender for the second legendary lord as the combat variant and he is based in the Worlds Edge mountains.

The at release forces could include Lord Skrolk as the NPC legendary lord commanding Skaven forces in Lustria in the portal campaign. Post SKaven FLC reklease he would be folly playable.

The principle paid DLC for this edition is Tomb Kings, and thier inclusion would allow the global campaign map on release to be combined from segments (Empire Total War style) into a single continuous map. It would make sense to do Araby as a faction, though Araby could be reduced to empty desert if the devs don't want to create their own factions.

This would leave Ogres and Chaos Dwarves as paid DLC additions to the third game, which according to rthe Russian leaks is based around the Daemons of Chaos split into four factions (possibly with faction based mortals built in)..

Misread

?

Had thought you said that Skaven would be akin to Brettonia, rather then an actual on release faction.

Regardless I don't believe they'll hold back on Skaven at least, having four playable races would be more to the benefit then holding back.

They won't launch with three factions though, this is what it says on the steam page:
"Meanwhile a fourth, secretive race stirs, their motives obscured by sinister plots and machinations. The time for revelation is nigh…

Four races, four outcomes, a single goal: control of the Great Vortex, for good or ill....

...Playing as one of 8 Legendary Lords across 4 iconic races"
They will almost certainly add Skaven on the start because of their dlc practices (no dlc for dlc). Seeing as it is a stand alone game in Lustria/Southlands Thanquol seems very likely due to his iconic/famous character.

Furthermore, I don't think the Brets were considered a 5th faction in TWW 1

You are misreading this Zebio, Skaven will be there from the start, but likely will be incomplete. The Skaven FLC would involve characters on the Old World and inclusion there.

Skaven need their main characters, and its very clear who one of them should be Thanquol. He is by far the most memorable rattie of the whole race.

Having Thanquol start in Lustria just doesn't work IMHO. Hr needs to be skulking around the black mountains plotting the demise of dwarf-things and orc-things and man-things and above all rival rat-rats, with predictable results.

If the rats are fully involved in the portal campaign then so be it, if so the Old World map needs updating from release also.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Furthermore, I don't think the Brets were considered a 5th faction in TWW 1

There were officially four races at release, with two half-races added on as NPC factions. Chaos was the first DLC available for upgrade to a full faction roster from the start. Brets came later. From experience of multiplayer Bret players could more than hold their own with the limited roster available though some units got a temporary boost to cover wider roles, like bowmen.

 Orlanth wrote:
You are misreading this Zebio, Skaven will be there from the start, but likely will be incomplete. The Skaven FLC would involve characters on the Old World and inclusion there.

Skaven need their main characters, and its very clear who one of them should be Thanquol. He is by far the most memorable rattie of the whole race.

Having Thanquol start in Lustria just doesn't work IMHO. Hr needs to be skulking around the black mountains plotting the demise of dwarf-things and orc-things and man-things and above all rival rat-rats, with predictable results.

If the rats are fully involved in the portal campaign then so be it, if so the Old World map needs updating from release also.

My problem with Skaven in the old world is how will it work. Will they be only playable for owners of game 2? Would you need game 1 for the old world campaign? Most likely, so will flc for the old world mega map only be for that map? This is where I can see issues setting in. Once we have 3 different campaigns (as they confirmed with only 1 using the whole map) what piece of dlc goes where or where doesn't it?

As Skaven will be in the release of Warhammer 2 but the larger campaign map will not be, who will they include for just Lustria? Will it just be clan pestilens? Are they going to do multiple flc packs for Skaven or do separate Skaven clan packs not count as dlc for dlc? Their weird stance on dlc really makes things needlessly complicated.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
You are misreading this Zebio, Skaven will be there from the start, but likely will be incomplete. The Skaven FLC would involve characters on the Old World and inclusion there.

Skaven need their main characters, and its very clear who one of them should be Thanquol. He is by far the most memorable rattie of the whole race.

Having Thanquol start in Lustria just doesn't work IMHO. Hr needs to be skulking around the black mountains plotting the demise of dwarf-things and orc-things and man-things and above all rival rat-rats, with predictable results.

If the rats are fully involved in the portal campaign then so be it, if so the Old World map needs updating from release also.

My problem with Skaven in the old world is how will it work. Will they be only playable for owners of game 2? Would you need game 1 for the old world campaign? Most likely, so will flc for the old world mega map only be for that map? This is where I can see issues setting in. Once we have 3 different campaigns (as they confirmed with only 1 using the whole map) what piece of dlc goes where or where doesn't it?

As Skaven will be in the release of Warhammer 2 but the larger campaign map will not be, who will they include for just Lustria? Will it just be clan pestilens? Are they going to do multiple flc packs for Skaven or do separate Skaven clan packs not count as dlc for dlc? Their weird stance on dlc really makes things needlessly complicated.

This is precisely why I am thinking FLC release. you cant make it part of th core game because its an unresolved feature. While nearly all Warhammer 2 players will also have 1 there has to be a separation. Having a large portion of the documented features not plyable in th core game doesnt work as a marketing concept. However having Skaven as both a core race and paid DLC will inflame the community. Making the Skaven in the old world FLC makes the most sense. It means that Warhammer 2 would have a substantial; FLC upgrade available without having to give race away they can sell.

If we follow CA's current marketing plan logically Tomb Kings will be a major DLC expansion, with a separate campaign map for purchasers, maybe a campaign set earlier in the timeline. then unless Araby is included as a faction there arent any other major SDLC packs that can really be added. You can get character packs equivalent to Grim and the Grave, proably covering the long war between High and Dark elves but the release schedule would be shorter than for Warhammer 1, CA is running out of races and will need to leave Chaos Dwarves and Ogres aside in order to haver a map expansion with Warhammer 3.

CA needs FLC sweeteners, preferably a race pack in order to buy goodwill to account for the £15 DLC releases they want to get us to buy. Total War Warhammer series is getting very expensive, I think it will eventually cost upwards of £150 to buy the whole lot even with third party seller discounts. I still think that is a must buy, but it is not a bargain.

 Orlanth wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
You are misreading this Zebio, Skaven will be there from the start, but likely will be incomplete. The Skaven FLC would involve characters on the Old World and inclusion there.

Skaven need their main characters, and its very clear who one of them should be Thanquol. He is by far the most memorable rattie of the whole race.

Having Thanquol start in Lustria just doesn't work IMHO. Hr needs to be skulking around the black mountains plotting the demise of dwarf-things and orc-things and man-things and above all rival rat-rats, with predictable results.

If the rats are fully involved in the portal campaign then so be it, if so the Old World map needs updating from release also.

My problem with Skaven in the old world is how will it work. Will they be only playable for owners of game 2? Would you need game 1 for the old world campaign? Most likely, so will flc for the old world mega map only be for that map? This is where I can see issues setting in. Once we have 3 different campaigns (as they confirmed with only 1 using the whole map) what piece of dlc goes where or where doesn't it?

As Skaven will be in the release of Warhammer 2 but the larger campaign map will not be, who will they include for just Lustria? Will it just be clan pestilens? Are they going to do multiple flc packs for Skaven or do separate Skaven clan packs not count as dlc for dlc? Their weird stance on dlc really makes things needlessly complicated.

This is precisely why I am thinking FLC release. you cant make it part of th core game because its an unresolved feature. While nearly all Warhammer 2 players will also have 1 there has to be a separation. Having a large portion of the documented features not plyable in th core game doesnt work as a marketing concept. However having Skaven as both a core race and paid DLC will inflame the community. Making the Skaven in the old world FLC makes the most sense. It means that Warhammer 2 would have a substantial; FLC upgrade available without having to give race away they can sell.

If we follow CA's current marketing plan logically Tomb Kings will be a major DLC expansion, with a separate campaign map for purchasers, maybe a campaign set earlier in the timeline. then unless Araby is included as a faction there arent any other major SDLC packs that can really be added. You can get character packs equivalent to Grim and the Grave, proably covering the long war between High and Dark elves but the release schedule would be shorter than for Warhammer 1, CA is running out of races and will need to leave Chaos Dwarves and Ogres aside in order to haver a map expansion with Warhammer 3.

CA needs FLC sweeteners, preferably a race pack in order to buy goodwill to account for the £15 DLC releases they want to get us to buy. Total War Warhammer series is getting very expensive, I think it will eventually cost upwards of £150 to buy the whole lot even with third party seller discounts. I still think that is a must buy, but it is not a bargain.

I actually expect Skaven to be in the core game and then get a lord pack with RoR such as the grim and the grave of Lizards versus Rats (don't forget game 1 had two of those that included core units for each faction so room for all 4 core factions again). With the seeming popularity of Skaven online going the flc route might not be Sega approved. Thats exactly my problem with Skaven, their lineup seems too big for just a single flc release or to just be included as a core feature (unless they significantly upped their game at CA about implementation). I have no clue about how exactly they will implement it, but Skaven seem like a very good lure for game 2 and if given as flc to game 1 owners the value of game 2 will be significantly lower relatively speaking. They are going to have to walk a fine line between appeasing game 2 buyers and not letting game 1 go stale, but as sales move on to game 2 anyway, they might care less about 1. They did the core and paid dlc for all the four core races in game 1, so if Skaven are core in 2, I'm almost certain they will get dlc. And it has to make sense to game 2 owners without acces to the old world campaign in case they don't have game 1. This sort of mess is exactly why they should have made warhammer 2 an expansion instead of a standalone, because by the end of game 3 we will have 4 different grand campaigns with dlc that slots into one or two but not the other one etc etc.

I seriously hope there won't be a pre-order dlc race in the form of Tomb Kings as the Warriors of Chaos are quite terribly implemented in the first game. I agree that its a prime candidate for dlc (mainly because its also one of the only candidates possible with lustria and the southlands). The FLC sweetener might be Araby, reskins of Empire units and one or two newly designed units based on Warmaster models. They have to start pulling races from somewhere as they already used up half on just game 1 (unless they count the 4 chaos gods as separate factions, but still), maybe some sort of minor Amazon faction or Vampire Coast gunpowder zombies.

I agree its going to be really expensive by 1 game with 'add-ons' standards, but in the end you get all races for a price lower than buying a single army in a setting that is dead. So in the end its worth it to me, even though it hurts my wallet (although the modding community certainly makes it a bit easier, some great mods).

They aren't a pre-order race. Geez how many times does CA have to say it's four core races now for TW2 since they upped their plans. Unless those leaves become mighty ferocious tree faction I think it's a safe bet the Skaven will be the fourth faction. Who else could it be? They said they want to do the main factions first before considering any smaller ones.

If any race has a chance of being pre-order flc it's the Tomb Kings. Then again they are kind of hinting there might not be a pre-oder flc race. I think that if there is pre-order dlc it will be an additional start placing and LL as has been speculated.

 Gamgee wrote:
They aren't a pre-order race. Geez how many times does CA have to say it's four core races now for TW2 since they upped their plans. Unless those leaves become mighty ferocious tree faction I think it's a safe bet the Skaven will be the fourth faction. Who else could it be? They said they want to do the main factions first before considering any smaller ones.

You need to read comments before you critique that. Nobody is saying there wont be a fourth new faction at release, there are questions about how much of one of those factions (Skaven) would you get when the much of their content is relevant only to the Total War 1 map.

 Gamgee wrote:

If any race has a chance of being pre-order flc it's the Tomb Kings.

This is a given that Tomb Kings will be seperate DLC because of the gap between the Warhammer 2 campaign map and the Warhammer 1 campaign map. Tomb Kings bridge the two and allow a single coherent map.
They will not be pre-order because the maps are separate at start, and Tomb Kings only makes sense to players who have Warhammer 1 also.

 Gamgee wrote:

Then again they are kind of hinting there might not be a pre-oder flc race. I think that if there is pre-order dlc it will be an additional start placing and LL as has been speculated.

Pre-order DLC is very unlikely as it was not a popular decision, and there is no room for it at this stage. Warriors of Chaos and Brets needed to be included from the outset, though the map could have stopped at the Grey mountains at launch. This made Chaos DLC a feasible decision. Warhammer 2 has few options ofr new races and many options for existing races to have 'cameo' appearances on the new map. Skeggi for instance means and isolated Warriors of Chaos faction base north of Lustria, there are also Von Carstein holdouts along the Zombesi river in Lustria approximately where Uruguay/Argentina would be, meaning a canon presence of two extra factions. CA are spoilt for choice for providing content from existing stock, they are short of packaged material to sell as DLC with exception of charcter packs, and those are not big selleras as it costs as much to animate a new character as a new unit, yet they have a lower market value for DLC sale.

Okay I must have misread then.

What's nice about Skaven for CA is that they'll never have to flesh out Tilea or Estalia more once Skavenblight is active.

They'll basically be free Skaven snacks.

GW wrote off those regions long ago. I have no problems with the map rescaling, and think it makes sense.

You and I know that but try and tell it to the legion of players who keep digging up info from as far as 2nd edition to try and justify the minor races as playable.

 Orlanth wrote:
For Skaven if Thanquol is not one of the legendary lords they are doing it wrong, and Thanquol is not New World based. Queek Headtaker is the main contender for the second legendary lord as the combat variant and he is based in the Worlds Edge mountains.

I doubt that Queek will be a legendary lord right off the back. If we are talking lizard men here then we will probably get clan Pestilens. The rat at the end wasn't a regular rat, if you looked at it it looked like it had boils and other growths coming out of it. I might be reading to much into this but it would make sense for clan Pestilens to lead the charge against the Lizard men. Thanquol I can see though.

Skrolk will have to be the starter lord by my guess. Likely the Skaven will only have the one at launch. With the FLC and related Old World tie in providing Thanquol and Queek.

 Orlanth wrote:
Skrolk will have to be the starter lord by my guess. Likely the Skaven will only have the one at launch. With the FLC and related Old World tie in providing Thanquol and Queek.

The steam page already says they have two lords per core faction with separate starting locations.

New trailer (I think)!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3CmxjTFv_Y

What a terrific first trailer that was, very cool!
2 of my fav races coming, Lizzies and Skaven.

Loved the ending with high elf being nommed. One of best factions owning worst faction in a trailer. Life is good.

I'm not looking to kick the death horse again, even more given that I was the second person who did it (sorry) and I also want for it to stop, but I want to give a few final notes on the "GW decline". (Unless someone else brings it back again and way ott).

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

CMLR wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
That looks so good hopefully they will not add any crap from AoS. The game is amazing and lore based, enjoyable all around.

If they throw in ghost lizards in space ships, space stations and teleport gateways to cinnamon and zuzu or what ever the hell the bubble planets are then it would not be total war. It be sifi war crap tactular.

This game is based on 20+ years of lore and a world that is mapped out. Not a half arse over night fan fiction novel like aos. Total war aos would be a joke. Maze well make harry potter total war.

Yet again more hate towards AoS just 'cuz.

When you've played for years and spent over a thousand dollars (earning minimum wage in my case) on several thousand points of warhammer fantasy models only to be bait and switched by GW and told you "aren't a true fan unless you buy into their new garbage" it's not "just cuz". If fantasy still existed alongside AoS and 40k the hate train would've been far less pronounced. The fact it lives off the death of our game is insulting. My GW where i'm not allowed to play warhammer fantasy anymore (it's not allowed) still has all the Warhammer Fantasy stuff posted on the store. Can you imagine how much that hurts? It's like having to constantly see pictures of your dead close family members or friends to remind you that they're dead. GW can just suck all the ****s in the world for that.

GW deserved to lose players for what they did and the deserve to lose more if they continue on their 'screw good sized portions of the fanbase' route. Just so you know if they squat dark eldar i will leave GW and it's possible they will squat that faction.

No because:

1.- Nothing stops you from playing 7E (8E? lol nope) with friends if GW don't let you play it on your nearest store.
2.- AoS is Fantasy eons in the future. Chaos is the same, Sigmar is the same, plenty of T-W-T-W characters that ascended to Godhood are the same.

Yes, pretty much "just 'cuz".

Also GW is on a great age right now, just check at their financial reports. AoS is doing pretty well and 40K new edition seems to actually one of the best 40K editions so far. I don't get from where you guys get that "GW is dying" data (since one and half decade iirc).

Also, yes, I get the feel, it sucked so hard for me when Blizzard destroyed amazing dungeons and raids like Scholomance or Zul'Gurub in WoW, but I think that starting to see my hobby as a quintessential part of my life is downright unhealthy.

On my "local" area (I'm 4 hours on bus from the nearest flgs, I'm more of a collector because of that), very few players never touched AoS from pure hate, few other left it alone and still play modified 7E games and everybody else is playing AoS on a succesful degree.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
When you work minimum wage and spend 1,000 USD on an army only for GW to say F you after giving them all your hard earned money and never allowing you to play their own game in their stores ever again because of AoS i'd say being pissed and feeling betrayed is extremely valid. In fact i'd say accepting it with open arms and thinking anything GW does is golden is total crap.

I also don't think it's a good metric to compare GW's idiotic old manager to the new guy which built up AoS into a better game system than it was. The failure that was Kirby was about to murder AoS as well. What do you think all that 'last chance to buy' stuff was about with tomb kings and bretonnia? They squatted 2 factions and this is considering they made it so there's only 4 major factions now. It must fail really bad if they can buy models for about 4 other factions and still not be selling enough. Thank god the new GW management has a clue otherwise AoS would've been squatted as well. Much as you guys like to state otherwise that was the reality of the situation. Early AoS without points was awful and the old factions of Old Fantasy are still basically left to rot.

Excellent post, but opinons can vary wildly.

Damn, veteran players over my "local" area say that AoS without points was actually more balanced, and all the victory conditions made the game more engaging. And honestly? it kinda is for me.

Baron Klatz wrote:
The Bonesplittaz would like a word with you. (in fact I think AoS is much better than wfb when it comes to regular army viability post-6th edition. )

Not always. Shadowblades, Firebellies and Maneaters are good examples. Thankfully Spire of Dawn showed that there can be special Battalions that give additional faction keywords to the units.

 Irishpeacockz wrote:
I find it strange that they are not mentioning skaven at all, even though they showed a rat near the end of the trailer and the steam page said it would have 4 races, why the secrecy CA ?

Hype building, what else?.

And, if you are lazy to open a new window:




Bought Legion with discount.
Played Overwatch Uprising almost non-stopping for loot crates.
Now this trailer.
With Mazdamundi, Terradons, Kroq-Gar and Gymloq, literally devouring puny elvish warm-bloods, fulfilling the great purpose.

I'm reaching happiness levels that haven't been possible until now.

What an aeon to be alive!

I'm watching it frame by frame. There are so much stuff going on.

I just can't figure out how they're going to ignore Araby

 Orlanth wrote:
You are misreading this Zebio, Skaven will be there from the start, but likely will be incomplete.

Like Beastmen are now... and probably always will be.

What is missing for beastmen?

 Ashiraya wrote:
What is missing for beastmen?

Gorgon and Jabberslythe are the only thing that I can think of off the top of my head. Maybe a Doombull general as well? I might be missing something.

Having played the Beastmen extensively in Grand Campaign, their roster felt complete to me, even with those omissions.