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My only concern with putting in feminine faces as well is that it ain't coming for free and I certainly don't want it replacing my male faces or what-not.

I think "feminine" is exactly the wrong thing to shoot for with Space Marines, for a lot of reasons. If there must be female Space Marines, they should be pretty butch.

I think it would make marketing sense (there's enough people supporting the idea in every Femarine thread ever created that there's bound to be a sizable population making that purchase, and people who dislike them are far more likely to just not buy them rather than abandon purchasing GW models/products entirely) to the point where it would make GW some money (not as much as Space Marines, but no subfactions makes as much as Space Marines, so setting the bar there is a non sequitor), and while I'd rather they introduce them through NuMarines or through pre-implantation phenotype-modifications rather than retcon the existing lore, I ultimately wouldn't be pissed if they did perform that sort of retcon because its ultimately not that important to the overarching nature of the setting (being the bastard lovechild of grimdark, silliness, and more copyright violations than you could shake a stick at).

That said, I also voted "no" on the poll, as I've no real interest in purchasing an Imperial army, and have no plans in the future to do so.

I'd totally go for an upgrade kit of female Tau heads, though.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
I think it would make marketing sense (there's enough people supporting the idea in every Femarine thread ever created that there's bound to be a sizable population making that purchase,

I think that the thread poll begs to differ.

 Traditio wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
I think it would make marketing sense (there's enough people supporting the idea in every Femarine thread ever created that there's bound to be a sizable population making that purchase,

I think that the thread poll begs to differ.

To be honest, I voted "no" because I wouldn't buy a male Space Marine kit either, as well as a female one.

Verviedi wrote:To be honest, I voted "no" because I wouldn't buy a male Space Marine kit either, as well as a female one.

That's kind of the point though, isn't it?

Female space marines are very much a niche interest.

In order to buy female space marines, two things have to be the case:

1. You have to be in the market to buy space marines.

2. You must want those space marines to be female (or, at the very least, not care whether or not they are female).

If either of those conditions is not met, GW doesn't make a sale.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will say this:

Perhaps the poll numbers aren't so bad as might appear at first glance.

Under the assumption that 29 percent of GW's player base actually purchased female space marines, that could actually prove a lucrative investment on GW's part.

That's a big assumption, though.

And it only works if you assume that an equal or greater number of people who otherwise would have purchased marines end up deciding against making a purchase because female space marines angered them.

So basically, it requires two assumptions:

1. Substantial percent of the player base makes a purchase

and

2. No boycott is triggered.

So, I'm going to take the bait again here:

I play Sisters of Battle. I don't play "Female Space Marines". My army isn't an army of genetically engineered killing machines, but female, but an army of warrior-nuns who can achieve feats surpassing that of said engineered killing machines, including literal miracles, though force of will, blind faith, and an unhealthy cult of martyrdom. I am playing an army that has pipe organs on crawler treads, uses the bones of martyred comrades as battle standards, and has silly gold-trimmed breastplates. I'm not playing Space Marines.

If there were female Imperial Guard kits, I would buy a few dozen. But, I also don't care enough about it to find alternate female Imperial Guard bits.

 Traditio wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
I think it would make marketing sense (there's enough people supporting the idea in every Femarine thread ever created that there's bound to be a sizable population making that purchase,

I think that the thread poll begs to differ.

The thread's poll suggests something like a (EDIT: Not a full third. actually closer to a quarter) quarter of all players polled would purchase Femarines.

A QUARTER OF ALL THOSE POLLED. A QUARTER.

For it to make marketing sense, it needs to make money. It doesn't have to be purchased by every (or even half) of all players. But if a full QUARTER of all GW players made that purchase, honey, that would probably outsell most Space Marine kits.

Do you think a full quarter of players would purchase Tau kits? Tyranid kits? Ork kits? Imperial Guard kits? Eldar kits? Necron kits?

Would a full quarter of players actually purchase ANY kit other than MAYBE Space Marines?

How do you possibly justify setting your bar that irrationally high?

Rather than making whole kits devoted to female space marines, a set of upgrade sprues to make female space marines would be nice.

I voted yes.

Variety is the spice of life. There are a few girls in my gaming group that would appreciate this.

No it does not make marketing sense. You would be alienating those customers who prefer Space Marines to remain exclusively male in order to gain who exactly? In a market that is saturated with politically correct male/female armies GW offers something that is increasingly rare. It makes no marketing sense to dilute the theme of their most popular product for no reason.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

A QUARTER OF ALL THOSE POLLED. A QUARTER.

For it to make marketing sense, it needs to make money. It doesn't have to be purchased by every (or even half) of all players. But if a full QUARTER of all GW players made that purchase, honey, that would probably outsell most Space Marine kits.

There aren't enough votes for this to adequately represent the population. You might only be getting votes from people who already play space marines.

Unusual Suspect wrote:The thread's poll suggests something like a (EDIT: Not a full third. actually closer to a quarter) quarter of all players polled would purchase Femarines.

A QUARTER OF ALL THOSE POLLED. A QUARTER.

For it to make marketing sense, it needs to make money. It doesn't have to be purchased by every (or even half) of all players. But if a full QUARTER of all GW players made that purchase, honey, that would probably outsell most Space Marine kits.

Do you think a full quarter of players would purchase Tau kits? Tyranid kits? Ork kits? Imperial Guard kits? Eldar kits? Necron kits?

Would a full quarter of players actually purchase ANY kit other than MAYBE Space Marines?

How do you possibly justify setting your bar that irrationally high?

Fair point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Marmatag wrote:
Rather than making whole kits devoted to female space marines, a set of upgrade sprues to make female space marines would be nice.

I voted yes.

Variety is the spice of life. There are a few girls in my gaming group that would appreciate this.

Purely from a financial perspective, a female space marine upgrade sprue would probably make a lot of sense.

 Marmatag wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

A QUARTER OF ALL THOSE POLLED. A QUARTER.

For it to make marketing sense, it needs to make money. It doesn't have to be purchased by every (or even half) of all players. But if a full QUARTER of all GW players made that purchase, honey, that would probably outsell most Space Marine kits.

There aren't enough votes for this to adequately represent the population. You might only be getting votes from people who already play space marines.

Probably true (though I know for a fact that the poll includes "No" results from at least one player who doesn't play Space Marines... me!), though even if that were the case, a full quarter of Space Marine players purchasing that kit would probably STILL outsell other factions.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

A QUARTER OF ALL THOSE POLLED. A QUARTER.

For it to make marketing sense, it needs to make money. It doesn't have to be purchased by every (or even half) of all players. But if a full QUARTER of all GW players made that purchase, honey, that would probably outsell most Space Marine kits.

There aren't enough votes for this to adequately represent the population. You might only be getting votes from people who already play space marines.

Probably true (though I know for a fact that the poll includes "No" results from at least one player who doesn't play Space Marines... me!), though even if that were the case, a full quarter of Space Marine players purchasing that kit would probably STILL outsell other factions.

That's not a conclusion you can draw; I think you're being facetious though

And I would definitely buy upgrade sprues. I would also buy upgrade sprues that had normal amounts of hair. Not everyone is bald.

Whether it makes sense depends largely on why the SoB have been somewhat neglected and what exactly female space marines entail model wise.

If it is just because the demand isn't there for SoB style models, I'm not sure female space marines will help that. You could try mostly space marine models with only the helmetless models having anything noticeably female about them, in which case it wouldn't even be a new model line so much as a couple new models and a handful of bits. Not a huge amount of profit in this, but honestly wouldn't take much effort either.

On the other hand, if SoB have more of a squat situation going on (no one at GW/few in the community like the theme and play style of the army), then yeah a big thing of noticeably female space marines models could sell well.

For those wanting a game system that has "female space marines" go here:

http://shop.prodosgames.com/72-space-crusade

Just for sheer visual and story telling variety I'd like to see more female models from GW across the board. But female Marines for the existing Astartes? Nah that ship sailed decades ago. But if GW are introducing NuMarines then they are already taking a big risk by adding a new model range and making a big addition to the games background. A couple of bare heads here and there and a role in the NuMarines fluff would give players an option that they could easily ignore if they wanted to.

I don't think that mixed gender NuMarines would invalidate the SoB any more than having the SoS in 40K does. Providing the Sisters get the support the faction deserves, they have a very clear Catholic church in space turned up to eleven theme. This could provide a good contrast to the NuMarines if as Robute's creation they hold closer to the old Imperial truth.

krazynadechukr wrote:
For those wanting a game system that has "female space marines" go here:

http://shop.prodosgames.com/72-space-crusade

Ugh Unless the game is an out and out cliche parody, I'd rather stick with the current sausage party then have models with the sci-fi version of a chainmail bikini.

 Otto von Bludd wrote:
No it does not make marketing sense. You would be alienating those customers who prefer Space Marines to remain exclusively male in order to gain who exactly? In a market that is saturated with politically correct male/female armies GW offers something that is increasingly rare. It makes no marketing sense to dilute the theme of their most popular product for no reason.

GW has alienated me as a Tau player that preferred my Taus to remain using exclusively tanks, because the idea of giant robots-suits is absurds. But here we are now, with Riptides, Stormsurges and Tau'nar. And it appears that is making money so GW.
In a market that is saturated with Giant-Godzilla-Spam armies GW chosed to offer something of the same, and people buyed that at dozens. They diluted the theme of a popular faction for more money. The only thing here is that Space Marines players are the most entitled players you are gonna encounter out there, that thing all should catter to their tastes and they have the right tho have an opinion on everything that happes related to their faction or no, and that they should reveice a special threatement unlike everyone like the special snowflakes they are.

If tomorrow GW brings to the table a complete female-version of the entire Space Marines Range, they will gain money with that. And not a small amount of money. And I said this without wanting Female Space Marines, I want plastic sisters of battle, but deny reality is to behave like an ostrich, hiding its head in a hole in the ground
Just like Numarines are alienating all the Space Marines players with a model range that from one day to the other, now are midgets. And if you think that isn't gonna sell, oh boy I have something to tell ya!

I do not think we need to see female space marines, I also would not buy them.
But there is other Places that GW needs more, This includes in there stories and the way they write the setting.
I would rather they put some real effort into the setting beyond space marines at this point.

Nope. Certain things are part of a faction's identity. SM being all male (and by extension SOB being all female) is one of them.

Just like you wouldn't give Eldar blocky vehicles or light Jacks in Khador (to give an example from another system). These are part of the design vocabularies, as GW themselves put it; for the factions. You stray too far from these and you risk diluting what makes each faction unique.

 Galas wrote:

 Otto von Bludd wrote:
No it does not make marketing sense. You would be alienating those customers who prefer Space Marines to remain exclusively male in order to gain who exactly? In a market that is saturated with politically correct male/female armies GW offers something that is increasingly rare. It makes no marketing sense to dilute the theme of their most popular product for no reason.

GW has alienated me as a Tau player that preferred my Taus to remain using exclusively tanks, because the idea of giant robots-suits is absurds. But here we are now, with Riptides, Stormsurges and Tau'nar. And it appears that is making money so GW.
In a market that is saturated with Giant-Godzilla-Spam armies GW chosed to offer something of the same, and people buyed that at dozens. They diluted the theme of a popular faction for more money. The only thing here is that Space Marines players are the most entitled players you are gonna encounter out there, that thing all should catter to their tastes and they have the right tho have an opinion on everything that happes related to their faction or no, and that they should reveice a special threatement unlike everyone like the special snowflakes they are.

If tomorrow GW brings to the table a complete female-version of the entire Space Marines Range, they will gain money with that. And not a small amount of money. And I said this without wanting Female Space Marines, I want plastic sisters of battle, but deny reality is to behave like an ostrich, hiding its head in a hole in the ground
Just like Numarines are alienating all the Space Marines players with a model range that from one day to the other, now are midgets. And if you think that isn't gonna sell, oh boy I have something to tell ya!

I think that the lore-based arguments are tenuous at best.

The simple fact is that GW can change the lore at the drop of a hat.

"Hey, so, guys...know how we thought that there was only male primarch gene seed? Look at what the Cultus Mechanicus found!"

 Otto von Bludd wrote:
No it does not make marketing sense. You would be alienating those customers who prefer Space Marines to remain exclusively male in order to gain who exactly? In a market that is saturated with politically correct male/female armies GW offers something that is increasingly rare. It makes no marketing sense to dilute the theme of their most popular product for no reason.

Honestly, we don't need players who whine about armies with gender diversity being "politically correct".

 Verviedi wrote:

 Otto von Bludd wrote:
No it does not make marketing sense. You would be alienating those customers who prefer Space Marines to remain exclusively male in order to gain who exactly? In a market that is saturated with politically correct male/female armies GW offers something that is increasingly rare. It makes no marketing sense to dilute the theme of their most popular product for no reason.

Honestly, we don't need players who whine about armies with gender diversity being "politically correct".

We also don't need players who whine incessantly about getting gender diversity in the Astartes because an all-male warrior coven hurts their fee-fees.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:

 Otto von Bludd wrote:
No it does not make marketing sense. You would be alienating those customers who prefer Space Marines to remain exclusively male in order to gain who exactly? In a market that is saturated with politically correct male/female armies GW offers something that is increasingly rare. It makes no marketing sense to dilute the theme of their most popular product for no reason.

Honestly, we don't need players who whine about armies with gender diversity being "politically correct".

We also don't need players who whine incessantly about getting gender diversity in the Astartes because an all-male warrior coven hurts their fee-fees.

Imagine an internet without those two kinds of people. Beautiful, isn't it?

Verviedi wrote:Honestly, we don't need players who whine about armies with gender diversity being "politically correct".

Several thoughts:

1. Are you really suggesting that people should be excluded from the game based on their political beliefs?

2. Are you really suggesting that people should be excluded from the game based on vocalizing opinions that you disagree with?

3. And to be fair, even if you don't agree with the political sentiment, it would be a perfectly reasonable economic complaint to make if GW decided to "cave in" to the demands of so-called "political correctness" despite the actual wishes of its consumer base, if, in fact, the consumer base were demanding otherwise.

Really, Verviedi, as stated, what you said is 1. unduly offensive/hostile/insulting to people with political opinions that you may not share and 2. is ultimately irrelevant to the topic of the thread.

Save the politics for the off-topic forum, yes?

 Traditio wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Otto von Bludd wrote:
No it does not make marketing sense. You would be alienating those customers who prefer Space Marines to remain exclusively male in order to gain who exactly? In a market that is saturated with politically correct male/female armies GW offers something that is increasingly rare. It makes no marketing sense to dilute the theme of their most popular product for no reason.

GW has alienated me as a Tau player that preferred my Taus to remain using exclusively tanks, because the idea of giant robots-suits is absurds. But here we are now, with Riptides, Stormsurges and Tau'nar. And it appears that is making money so GW.
In a market that is saturated with Giant-Godzilla-Spam armies GW chosed to offer something of the same, and people buyed that at dozens. They diluted the theme of a popular faction for more money. The only thing here is that Space Marines players are the most entitled players you are gonna encounter out there, that thing all should catter to their tastes and they have the right tho have an opinion on everything that happes related to their faction or no, and that they should reveice a special threatement unlike everyone like the special snowflakes they are.

If tomorrow GW brings to the table a complete female-version of the entire Space Marines Range, they will gain money with that. And not a small amount of money. And I said this without wanting Female Space Marines, I want plastic sisters of battle, but deny reality is to behave like an ostrich, hiding its head in a hole in the ground
Just like Numarines are alienating all the Space Marines players with a model range that from one day to the other, now are midgets. And if you think that isn't gonna sell, oh boy I have something to tell ya!

I think that the lore-based arguments are tenuous at best.

The simple fact is that GW can change the lore at the drop of a hat.

"Hey, so, guys...know how we thought that there was only male primarch gene seed? Look at what the Cultus Mechanicus found!"

Especially since there were female Space Marines referenced in RT era products (e.g. the Little Sisters of Purification). Writing them out of the game came later.

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Ugh Unless the game is an out and out cliche parody, I'd rather stick with the current sausage party then have models with the sci-fi version of a chainmail bikini.

I take it you didn't look that close, you only saw the almost tasteful PG 13 stuff. The other half don't even get that much clothing. Of particular interest was the chaos terminator who just has her tits out and no chest armor. Also the naked female greater demon of nurgle who I expect will end up in my nightmares at some point.

Given that the game is a ripoff of an old 40k board game (with literally the same name) I think they were going for cliche parody. Or at least that was the excuse.

OT; does anyone know of the new sisters of silence stuff has been doing well?

It is possible to have tasteful women in miniature games.

Female Marines would be essentially the same as male marines, just with slightly different heads.

Female Guardsmen would be much the same, with perhaps some different fanciness on lady commissars and the like.

 JNAProductions wrote:
It is possible to have tasteful women in miniature games.

Female Marines would be essentially the same as male marines, just with slightly different heads.

Female Guardsmen would be much the same, with perhaps some different fanciness on lady commissars and the like.

What?! No. Female miniatures are impossible to differentiate at this scale without boob-armour or bikinis! We are playing 28mm, not 54mm! Have you tried to see the faces of the Catachans models and see if they are actually male? Omg, they are totally indistingible. Is almost EPIC scale!

/S

 Asmodai wrote:

 Traditio wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Otto von Bludd wrote:
No it does not make marketing sense. You would be alienating those customers who prefer Space Marines to remain exclusively male in order to gain who exactly? In a market that is saturated with politically correct male/female armies GW offers something that is increasingly rare. It makes no marketing sense to dilute the theme of their most popular product for no reason.

GW has alienated me as a Tau player that preferred my Taus to remain using exclusively tanks, because the idea of giant robots-suits is absurds. But here we are now, with Riptides, Stormsurges and Tau'nar. And it appears that is making money so GW.
In a market that is saturated with Giant-Godzilla-Spam armies GW chosed to offer something of the same, and people buyed that at dozens. They diluted the theme of a popular faction for more money. The only thing here is that Space Marines players are the most entitled players you are gonna encounter out there, that thing all should catter to their tastes and they have the right tho have an opinion on everything that happes related to their faction or no, and that they should reveice a special threatement unlike everyone like the special snowflakes they are.

If tomorrow GW brings to the table a complete female-version of the entire Space Marines Range, they will gain money with that. And not a small amount of money. And I said this without wanting Female Space Marines, I want plastic sisters of battle, but deny reality is to behave like an ostrich, hiding its head in a hole in the ground
Just like Numarines are alienating all the Space Marines players with a model range that from one day to the other, now are midgets. And if you think that isn't gonna sell, oh boy I have something to tell ya!

I think that the lore-based arguments are tenuous at best.

The simple fact is that GW can change the lore at the drop of a hat.

"Hey, so, guys...know how we thought that there was only male primarch gene seed? Look at what the Cultus Mechanicus found!"

Especially since there were female Space Marines referenced in RT era products (e.g. the Little Sisters of Purification). Writing them out of the game came later.

So Tigurius should still be half Eldar, right?