Space Wolves and Primaris marines.

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**Dakka Wolf**

hobojebus wrote:
Dakka Wolf wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Mleander wrote:
Does anyone have any more info on this new Wolfspear Chapter?

A LITTLE it's not much though, I'll give what I can.

The Wolf Spear are a new chapter made up of the remains of the Primaris Space Wolves from the Grey Shields, based on Raukos (the world where Gulliman ended the Indomatus Crusade) their job is to Guard "The Pit" which is, as I understand it a part of the great rift. Raukos is one of several guard station worlds that the Imperium is eistablishing along it until they can figure out how to close the bloody thing.

Makes me wonder if the Space Wolf chapter has, for the moment rejected Primaris Marines. or at least the ones they've not created themselves.

I remember reading Sanguinius wasn't overly fond of the first Terran Blood Angels, maybe Russ held similar views.
One thing I know is Russ wanted Space Wolves' successors encircling the Eye of Terror, this might not be a rejection so much as a beginning to that desire, then again it could be both.

No Russ took his new legion into orc territory and over five years killed every last green skin and emerged with a fully unified force, wolves respect their elders they would of welcomed the experience of the terrans.

Nothing like bonding over a massacre.

**Ruin**

Mleander wrote:
hobojebus wrote:
Galas wrote:
If Space Wolves accept Wulfen, they are gonna accept Primaris Marines.

Wulfen were wolves before they changed they share the same gene father and heritage, even separated by 10 millennium they are still one and the same.

These new guys are not fenrisians so far as we know, they don't share their experience fighting trolls, kraken and wyrms on the ice Fields so they can't ever be true wolves.

I don't think they were wolves, But marines with the curse of the Wulfen.

From warhammer40k.wiki
"The Wulfen are Space Marines of the Space Wolves Chapter who have succumbed to the Curse of the Wulfen and transformed into savage, malformed lupine mutants. Within every Space Wolf's gene-seed is the specific genetic sequence known as the Canis Helix which invests the Space Wolves with the acute predatory senses of the Fenrisian Wolves native to their homeworld of Fenris. When Aspirants undergo the beginning of the physical changes that will transform them into superhuman Astartes during the brutal trial known as The Blooding, not every candidate is able to overcome the feral Curse that the activation of the Canis Helix unleashes within them, and they suffer the horrible fate of transforming into one of these fell creatures."

"Wolves" there is shorthand for Space Wolves. He didn't literally mean wolves. I hope.

**hobojebus**

Ruin wrote:
Mleander wrote:
hobojebus wrote:
Galas wrote:
If Space Wolves accept Wulfen, they are gonna accept Primaris Marines.

Wulfen were wolves before they changed they share the same gene father and heritage, even separated by 10 millennium they are still one and the same.

These new guys are not fenrisians so far as we know, they don't share their experience fighting trolls, kraken and wyrms on the ice Fields so they can't ever be true wolves.

I don't think they were wolves, But marines with the curse of the Wulfen.

From warhammer40k.wiki
"The Wulfen are Space Marines of the Space Wolves Chapter who have succumbed to the Curse of the Wulfen and transformed into savage, malformed lupine mutants. Within every Space Wolf's gene-seed is the specific genetic sequence known as the Canis Helix which invests the Space Wolves with the acute predatory senses of the Fenrisian Wolves native to their homeworld of Fenris. When Aspirants undergo the beginning of the physical changes that will transform them into superhuman Astartes during the brutal trial known as The Blooding, not every candidate is able to overcome the feral Curse that the activation of the Canis Helix unleashes within them, and they suffer the horrible fate of transforming into one of these fell creatures."

"Wolves" there is shorthand for Space Wolves. He didn't literally mean wolves. I hope.

Yes it was shorthand.

**BrianDavion**

Dakka Wolf wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dakka Wolf wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Mleander wrote:
Does anyone have any more info on this new Wolfspear Chapter?

A LITTLE it's not much though, I'll give what I can.

The Wolf Spear are a new chapter made up of the remains of the Primaris Space Wolves from the Grey Shields, based on Raukos (the world where Gulliman ended the Indomatus Crusade) their job is to Guard "The Pit" which is, as I understand it a part of the great rift. Raukos is one of several guard station worlds that the Imperium is eistablishing along it until they can figure out how to close the bloody thing.

Makes me wonder if the Space Wolf chapter has, for the moment rejected Primaris Marines. or at least the ones they've not created themselves.

I remember reading Sanguinius wasn't overly fond of the first Terran Blood Angels, maybe Russ held similar views.
One thing I know is Russ wanted Space Wolves' successors encircling the Eye of Terror, this might not be a rejection so much as a beginning to that desire, then again it could be both.

it could simply be something as simple as the space wolves couldn't handle the sheer number of Space Wolf Primaris Marines produced. given they;re limited to only 1 chapter right now if Gulliman had produced say a modest 2000 Primaris Space Wolves that'd be WAAAY more then the space wolves could take in without impacting their chapter

You jest right? The Space Wolves have the capacity to have a solid ten thousand Marines, currently they'd be lucky to have six hundred including the Wulfen.
More likely Guiliman negotiated 2000 Primaris Marines for some Codex compliance.

I don't jest at all. you'll notice I said "impact their chapter" not "break the codex" it's an assimilation thing, take in too many Primaris Marines and it could swamp the chapter, impacting the chatper's culture.

**Dakka Wolf**

BrianDavion wrote:
Dakka Wolf wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dakka Wolf wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Mleander wrote:
Does anyone have any more info on this new Wolfspear Chapter?

A LITTLE it's not much though, I'll give what I can.

The Wolf Spear are a new chapter made up of the remains of the Primaris Space Wolves from the Grey Shields, based on Raukos (the world where Gulliman ended the Indomatus Crusade) their job is to Guard "The Pit" which is, as I understand it a part of the great rift. Raukos is one of several guard station worlds that the Imperium is eistablishing along it until they can figure out how to close the bloody thing.

Makes me wonder if the Space Wolf chapter has, for the moment rejected Primaris Marines. or at least the ones they've not created themselves.

I remember reading Sanguinius wasn't overly fond of the first Terran Blood Angels, maybe Russ held similar views.
One thing I know is Russ wanted Space Wolves' successors encircling the Eye of Terror, this might not be a rejection so much as a beginning to that desire, then again it could be both.

it could simply be something as simple as the space wolves couldn't handle the sheer number of Space Wolf Primaris Marines produced. given they;re limited to only 1 chapter right now if Gulliman had produced say a modest 2000 Primaris Space Wolves that'd be WAAAY more then the space wolves could take in without impacting their chapter

You jest right? The Space Wolves have the capacity to have a solid ten thousand Marines, currently they'd be lucky to have six hundred including the Wulfen.
More likely Guiliman negotiated 2000 Primaris Marines for some Codex compliance.

I don't jest at all. you'll notice I said "impact their chapter" not "break the codex" it's an assimilation thing, take in too many Primaris Marines and it could swamp the chapter, impacting the chatper's culture.

Ahh, my bad - I thought you meant the Fang couldn't host that many Marines.

**Books**

Mleander wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Mleander wrote:
Galas wrote:
If Space Wolves accept Wulfen, they are gonna accept Primaris Marines.

Wasnt Wulfen the long lost 13th great company? In other words already Space Wolves.

sure but they where massivly mutated etc. which is seen as a abd thing. almost any other chapter would have been horrified and screamed "purge them all" the space wolves reckongized and accepted their common ancestory

True. Maybe one could justify the Primaris marines as the 14th Company or maybe just The/1st Reinforcement Company?

dont muse about such, the 12 companies represent sw heritage. the 13th represents the fallen sw, the ones who continued their pursuit of chaos into the warpway. Primaris are as welcome to fight along side us as any of our rivals are, however they are not true sw until they have bled our enemies with us and once this has been done much like during the founding they will be accepted as sw. I would be open to an intensified ritual to initiate them though. For Russ and the Allfather!

**hobojebus**

Fyi they recovered the 13th from Prospero in a recent book along with their heresy era vehicles.

**Books**

hobojebus wrote:
Fyi they recovered the 13th from Prospero in a recent book along with their heresy era vehicles.

yeah I know, and I use the wulfen often as they tend to feth gak up.

**BrianDavion**

hobojebus wrote:
Fyi they recovered the 13th from Prospero in a recent book along with their heresy era vehicles.

yeah the space wolves 8th edicition codex will likely give us 13 active great companies

**Northern85Star**

Sales > lore to GW. GW wants to push a new line of SM, making all SM players eventually replace their old collection for huge profits.

Wulfen are accepted by SW since they are normal marines mutated by the canix helix. The geneseed is absolutely vital to SW identity. That is why primaris cannot replace SW marines, unless current SW lore is discarded.

What i think we will see is new lore for SW being that SW primaris marines will somehow have the canix helix, so that primaris can ultimately also replace the old SM, without a loss of what makes SW SW. I think we will see unique SW primaris units together with the release of the codex, which is why the SW codex is last in line.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
... and since old marines can supposedly be “upgraded” to primaris (talk about deus ex machina), charcters and wolf guard might simply be upgraded as a step up in hierachy. As a badge of honour.

**BrianDavion**

Northern85Star wrote:
Sales > lore to GW. GW wants to push a new line of SM, making all SM players eventually replace their old collection for huge profits.

Wulfen are accepted by SW since they are normal marines mutated by the canix helix. The geneseed is absolutely vital to SW identity. That is why primaris cannot replace SW marines, unless current SW lore is discarded.

What i think we will see is new lore for SW being that SW primaris marines will somehow have the canix helix, so that primaris can ultimately also replace the old SM, without a loss of what makes SW SW. I think we will see unique SW primaris units together with the release of the codex, which is why the SW codex is last in line.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
... and since old marines can supposedly be “upgraded” to primaris (talk about deus ex machina), charcters and wolf guard might simply be upgraded as a step up in hierachy. As a badge of honour.

.. why wouldn't Primaris Marines have the Canis Helix? Te Lore suggests that the Primaris Marines are CLOSER to their primarch (geneticly speaking)0 then old marines

**Northern85Star**

Right you are!

**hobojebus**

BrianDavion wrote:
Northern85Star wrote:
Sales > lore to GW. GW wants to push a new line of SM, making all SM players eventually replace their old collection for huge profits.

Wulfen are accepted by SW since they are normal marines mutated by the canix helix. The geneseed is absolutely vital to SW identity. That is why primaris cannot replace SW marines, unless current SW lore is discarded.

What i think we will see is new lore for SW being that SW primaris marines will somehow have the canix helix, so that primaris can ultimately also replace the old SM, without a loss of what makes SW SW. I think we will see unique SW primaris units together with the release of the codex, which is why the SW codex is last in line.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
... and since old marines can supposedly be “upgraded” to primaris (talk about deus ex machina), charcters and wolf guard might simply be upgraded as a step up in hierachy. As a badge of honour.

.. why wouldn't Primaris Marines have the Canis Helix? Te Lore suggests that the Primaris Marines are CLOSER to their primarch (geneticly speaking)0 then old marines

Cawl fekked around with it to make it more stable, but given he's not the allfather who's to say his meddling hasn't made things worse.

Book clearly suggests grimnar is worried about that, I would imagine they'll be used as cannon fodder until real fenrisians can be elevated to sky warrior status and then their threads so will be cut.

**Crimson**

Why are people still behaving like the Primaris are brand new? It has been over a century since Gathering Storm, and chapters have had the tech to make their own Primaris Marines for a century. At this point all marines who are about hundred years old or younger are Primaris. There has been plenty of time for the first Primaris marines to make into the higher ranks.

If the Wolves retain their old training practices, one could imagine that the new recruits first become some sort of assault type marines, so 'Blood Claws' are probably Reivers, while more experienced marines will become 'Grey Hunter' Intercessors. Hellblasters are the Long Fang equivalent. I am not to sure about Inceptors and Aggressors.

**pm713**

The Chapters could also not make everyone new into Primaris and stick with what they had before with a few Primaris hanging around.

**Crimson**

pm713 wrote:
The Chapters could also not make everyone new into Primaris and stick with what they had before with a few Primaris hanging around.

Sure, if they want to be stupid (which in 40K is of course perfectly possible.) But it makes no sense to keep producing the inferior model when the upgrade is available.

**ikeulhu**

Crimson wrote:

If the Wolves retain their old training practices, one could imagine that the new recruits first become some sort of assault type marines, so 'Blood Claws' are probably Reivers, while more experienced marines will become 'Grey Hunter' Intercessors. Hellblasters are the Long Fang equivalent. I am not to sure about Inceptors and Aggressors.

I will now be calling SW Primaris marines Blood Reivers, Huntercessors, and Fangblasters, respectively! Inceptors could be a Skyclaw equivalent, so maybe Skyceptors or Clawceptors for them? Closest non Primaris equivalent to an Aggressor is a Terminator in my opinion, so would be Wolf Guard associated. Perhaps Wolfgressors or Agguard?

**pm713**

Crimson wrote:
pm713 wrote:
The Chapters could also not make everyone new into Primaris and stick with what they had before with a few Primaris hanging around.

Sure, if they want to be stupid (which in 40K is of course perfectly possible.) But it makes no sense to keep producing the inferior model when the upgrade is available.

Alternatively they could just be suspicious of them and want more trusted soldiers.

**Crimson**

pm713 wrote:

Alternatively they could just be suspicious of them and want more trusted soldiers.

But they would be recruiting and training the Primaris themselves, just like they'd recruit and thrain the non-primartis aspirants. Why would the Primaris be any less trustworthy than the non-primaris? I understand if some chapters would not want Cawl's Mars-trained creations, but once they get the tech to recruit the Primaris themselves, I really don't see much of an issue.

**pm713**

Crimson wrote:
pm713 wrote:

Alternatively they could just be suspicious of them and want more trusted soldiers.

But they would be recruiting and training the Primaris themselves, just like they'd recruit and thrain the non-primartis aspirants. Why would the Primaris be any less trustworthy than the non-primaris? I understand if some chapters would not want Cawl's Mars-trained creations, but once they get the tech to recruit the Primaris themselves, I really don't see much of an issue.

Because they're different to the norm. The Imperiums incredibly superstitious plus some things are genuinely tainted from the start. Cawl could easily be one of those considering his appearance.

**Gridge**

Crimson wrote:
Why are people still behaving like the Primaris are brand new? It has been over a century since Gathering Storm, and chapters have had the tech to make their own Primaris Marines for a century. At this point all marines who are about hundred years old or younger are Primaris. There has been plenty of time for the first Primaris marines to make into the higher ranks.

If the Wolves retain their old training practices, one could imagine that the new recruits first become some sort of assault type marines, so 'Blood Claws' are probably Reivers, while more experienced marines will become 'Grey Hunter' Intercessors. Hellblasters are the Long Fang equivalent. I am not to sure about Inceptors and Aggressors.

Exactly. It may be a recent change to all of us, but Primaris were gifted to the chapters a century ago along with the knowledge of how to alter the creation process to create new marines. Each chapter already has numerous Primaris veterans and heroes and I'm sure a century is enough time for even the most stubborn old wolf to accept them.

**hobojebus**

They didn't all get numarines at the same time though for some it's still recent.

I can only tell you what's in the book which is cannon, the wolves don't trust them or the changes made to the gene seed.

And when they go to Prospero there are no numarines even though they are taking wounded wolves not yet healed from their last campaign.

**BrianDavion**

hobojebus wrote:
They didn't all get numarines at the same time though for some it's still recent.

I can only tell you what's in the book which is cannon, the wolves don't trust them or the changes made to the gene seed.

And when they go to Prospero there are no numarines even though they are taking wounded wolves not yet healed from their last campaign.

which might just imply the NuMarines are all still in the field. it's not a lack of trust. the doubts about the Primaris Marines are hardly a "WE DON'T TRUST THEM AT ALL" it's more "these guys are even more removed from humanity then normal marines, I hope it doesn't lead to some chapters becoming problematic" There's certainly no suggestion the space wolves are just going to throw them away. although it seems likely to me they'll adopt primaris Marines slowly. with geneseed being the way it is it may be more efficant for some chapters to keep producing standard marines for some time to come. And it means if primaris marines DO turn out to have a flaw they're not completely fethed. But don't confuse doubts with outright hatred

**hobojebus**

Better they sleep on red snow than bring maleficarum into the Aett.

**Dakka Wolf**

Double post.

**Duskweaver**

Even if a chapter has the ability to create new Primaris marines, they still require different armour, weapons, equipment and even vehicles from those the chapter has been using for millennia. If a chapter can't get enough suits of Mk.X armour to equip all its new recruits, for example, then it makes sense to keep making some non-Primaris marines and keep using their existing stockpile of older power armour.

**Karhedron**

hobojebus wrote:

Cawl fekked around with it to make it more stable, but given he's not the allfather who's to say his meddling hasn't made things worse.

Book clearly suggests grimnar is worried about that, I would imagine they'll be used as cannon fodder until real fenrisians can be elevated to sky warrior status and then their threads so will be cut.

Indeed, Cawl is extraordinarily arrogant. Just because he believes he has done what he set out to do does not make it so.

‘What of those gene-lines with more deeply ingrained flaws?’ asked Guilliman. ‘The Blood Angels and the Space Wolves?’
Cawl’s research, and his own reading, had uncovered dangerous faults that the sons of both gene-lines in question had done their best to hide.
‘The corrected flaws in the new gene-stocks show no signs of regression to previous unstable states, whether in successor Chapters composed entirely of the new Primaris Space Marine type, or in already established Chapters. Elimination entirely of the more idiosyncratic traits of some gene-lines is, however, not to be recommended. They form part of the Emperor’s original vision, and are, in any case, crucial to their proper function. The improved gene-seed of Ninth and Sixth Legion stock is operating within acceptable parameters.

However the fluff in the Blood Angels codex has a contingent of Primaris Marines losing their cool during a battle with the Alpha Legion and going all-out psycho on them. Whether this was just an extreme version of the Red Thirst or some the beginnings of the Black Rage is unknown at this point but Corbulo hurried back to Baal to inform Dante.

Bottom line is that Cawl's tinkering may not be as perfect as he thinks it is. By giving an assessment of the Primaris Marines from Cawl's PoV rather than a 3rd person perspective, they have left the door open to future problems or to old ones like the Black rage and Wulfen curse resurfacing.

**hobojebus**

Imagine the tears primaris wulfen would bring about.

**Dakka Wolf**

The Space Wolves have had stories about Wolf Priests coming close to untying the Canis Helix, would any of them suggest sending the Primaris Marines they actually recieved out to see if Terran Space Wolves can find new populations that they aren't bound to the way the Space Wolves are leashed to Fenris?

**Delvarus Centurion**

Mleander wrote:
I'm relatively new to the 40k universe and my question is very fluff related.
I've started collecting Space Wolves since I like the look of them and the lore I've read so far.
The question I have is how will the SW react to the reinforcements of the Primaris marines?
How will they fit into their packs? As far as I understand, every SW must start their career as a Blood Claw then earn the ranks of Grey Hunter, Long Fang, Scout and so on.

For example. According to the Dark Imperium box, a Primaris Intercessor marine has the same type of pack markings(a black mark over a red field) as a Grey Hunter, a seasoned warrior.
I have a hard time seeing the Grey Hunters or any other SW accepting that these fresh out of the pod marines will have any other rank in their packs other than Blood Claw(if they are even accepted as SW).

I pre-ordered a Dark Imperium box since I think the box itself and all the models look awesome. I'm thinking of painting the Primaris marines as their own "reinforcement chapter" and not accepting them into my SW packs.

I'm asking the more seasoned SW commanders here, what are your thoughts on this? How will you handle these new marines?

I use Primaris as true scale marines, converted all the models I need.