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 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Out of curiosity, do the loyalist knights in the Astra book happen to have the keyword "Adeptus Mechanicus"?

Nope. Questor Imperialis, Imperium and <Household>

I really like the tantalus for 350 it's amazing! The wraithseer seems fair at 200 with a D-Cannon. I'm a litle sad that the other major model I own is needing a FAQ/Errata for its broken rules (Dimachaeron), but at leat it's cheap!

 NivlacSupreme wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Out of curiosity, do the loyalist knights in the Astra book happen to have the keyword "Adeptus Mechanicus"?

Nope. Questor Imperialis, Imperium and <Household>

Bah, was hoping since the chaos ones got "Dark mechanicus" the loyalist ones would have Adeptus Mechanicus

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Out of curiosity, do the loyalist knights in the Astra book happen to have the keyword "Adeptus Mechanicus"?

None of them have it.

Edit: Dammit didn't refresh.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
At first glance I'm kind of disappointed by the Ork section, but I probably shouldn't be.

The thing I'm sad about isn't points, I haven't got my head around what's fair yet in that regard, I'm just sad that they got rid of so many cool ork units and options.

I'm hoping that Forge World puts out another Ork book in the future that adds some of them back. On one hand they don't produce models for a lot of the stuff anymore, but on the other hand they didn't include rules for some things that they do produce. I'm guessing (hoping) that they didn't include them for the sake of brevity and we'll get them back some day.

What is all missing? I don't have the book yet.

So I looked at the Crassus, that thing seems really good now. You can take it with 4xheavy flamers for 268. It has 20 wounds t8, so is no pushover. It has a rule that it can fire after advancing, which makes those flamers quite usable. And it can hold 35 models.

I think that a Crassus with 10 Bullgryn and some support characters is pretty much the IG version of the assault teminator landraider. It will hit very hard.

Edit: Just saw that it also has the "can fire in combat" rule. This thing with flamers seems super good. Am I wrong?

So many errors in the AM FW index. Malcador Heavy Tank lacks the Grinding Advance rule that the Leman Russ gets (and also the Malcador Defender gets), clearly an oversight. champion for Renegade Militia squads has the wrong name in the wargear upgrade section, Disciple Squads have Fanatic and can also buy a vox caster - both providing the same rule (are they cumulative or not?). The Renegade Chimera and Valkyrie cannot transport Renegade troops (they can only transport AM infantry with no exception listed in the R&H list). Plague Ogryn cost more power than renegade ogryns but cost less points? I guess that's just a symptom of the difference between power and points though. Probably other errors too that I haven't picked up on yet. Lots of spelling and grammatical errors though - clearly the book was rushed and not proof-read properly.

About the Renegade & Heretic list (the reason I got the book), it's been watered down a lot. We lost all the cool warlord options to specialise the list (I liked Bloody-Handed Reaver myself) and we lost the interesting buff that the Baneblade provided, though that's countered by getting full BS4+ AM vehicles rather than the shoddy ones of the past. The Covenants are mostly weak, except for Tzeentch (same as before really) but they kept that ridiculous stipulation on having your warlord come from this list. No way an allied CSM detachment are going to allow this guy to lead the army. Although the bonuses are so weak that do you really need to make him warlord? Probably not.

The addition of Chaos Cultists as troops is nice, you can just straight up insert your CSM cultists into the army as troops and fill out the list with tanks if you like.

The psyker coven, whilst appearing weak on the surface might be pretty good as a psychic denial unit. Much harder to kill that squad than a single character model so against a psychic heavy army they could comfortably roll 3d6 for denial and shut down enemy psychic shenanigans. The other psyker looks fun, turns into a monster when he perils! Interesting mechanic.

I like the plague ogryns, look great a suicide bomb unit. And chaos get some snipers now in the marauder squads.

Overall it looks ok. I can do what I want with the list without it being too restrictive, though that warlord stipulation is still weak as hell. Why can't you just pick a covenant and pick whoever you want as warlord?

At least with 90% of the errrors it is really obvious what they wanted to do. I'm not trying to excuse them, just stating that using the books should not be too hard until they errata them.

Demantiae wrote:

I like the plague ogryns, look great a suicide bomb unit. And chaos get some snipers now in the marauder squads.

Wut?!

checks

WOOT! I've always wanted some chaos snipers in my army! That's awesome! EDIT: and a min squad plus sniper rifles is only 34 points! Mama mia that's a spicy meatball!

I'm annoyed that the renegades still have that stupid random LD rule. I'm fine with the army having hardcore fanatics and press-ganged rabble, but I want to choose which is which and model them accordingly. And of course if you have a large army, keeping track of all the leadership scores is an utter nightmare.

 zammerak wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
At first glance I'm kind of disappointed by the Ork section, but I probably shouldn't be.

The thing I'm sad about isn't points, I haven't got my head around what's fair yet in that regard, I'm just sad that they got rid of so many cool ork units and options.

I'm hoping that Forge World puts out another Ork book in the future that adds some of them back. On one hand they don't produce models for a lot of the stuff anymore, but on the other hand they didn't include rules for some things that they do produce. I'm guessing (hoping) that they didn't include them for the sake of brevity and we'll get them back some day.

What is all missing? I don't have the book yet.

I don't have the older Forge World books on-hand, but from what I remember off the top of my head the only thing that they currently make that is technically missing is the Mega-Dread. I think they want us to play them as Meka-Dreads, although the Mega-Dread has weapons on its body that cannot be purchased by the Meka-Dread. I can understand that they wanted to save space in the book, but it's weird considering they have separate entries for the Battlewagon with Lifta-Droppa* and the Battlewagon with Supa-Kannon.
*They don't currently make a model of the Battlewagon with Lifta-Droppa.

I would argue that they also had models of the Gun Trukks (I think that's what they were called, the Trukks that hauled around a big gun instead of passengers) as they produce separate weapons that could just be glued onto the bed of a trukk just like they do with the Big Trakk.

They have the Kill Bursta and Kill Blasta, but no Kill Krusha. I know they had a different model for it in the past and they were somewhat different tanks, but I think they were close enough that they could have just made it another weapon choice in the Kill Tank data sheet. Yeah, they don't actually make the weapon for it, but they don't make the weapons that a lot of other vehicles have access to (Big Zzappas, Supa-Skorchas, Lifta-Droppas on Battlewagons, half the options on a Grot Mega Tank, etc.).

They also don't have Gun Wagons, Mekboy Junkas, Battle Fortresses, those missile launcher buggies, cyborks or any of the flyers. That's more understandable as they haven't made models of those in a while (except for maybe the flyer?).

They do have the Kustom Stompa. It doesn't have nearly as many options, but at least it's there.

I hope I don't sound too negative, as a lot of what they have seems pretty cool. Squiggoths, Gargantuan Squiggoths, Big Trakks and Meka-Dreads all seem good.

I'm hoping this is just a rushed set of rules and they'll release better ones down the road with more stuff put back in. I'm also hoping that if they don't include rules for some of the models they no longer make, like the Looted Wagon and Battle Fortress, that they produce Rhino and Baneblade "upgrade" kits and release rules for them.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
FAQ for the valkyries grav-chute insertion incoming. It was fun while it lasted boys.

Can you elaborate?

I just realized Death Korps Heavy Weapons Teams can take Heavy Flamers, that incredibly awesome actually. Shame though that normal death korps infantry squads can't take heavy weapons teams, though it stills cheaper putting the heavy flamers on heavy weapon squads instead of the more expensive engineers which the increased ballistic skill would be wasted on flamers.

My copy's is on its way across the pond, but can anyone share some details on the sythed hirodule?

 ross-128 wrote:


Granted, it's only one unit per searchlight, so it's kind of a quasi-Order. But we can put +1 to hit and make plasma weapons IMMUNE TO OVERHEATING! That's awesome! That thing hardly needs a weapon, it can pay for itself just by doing that!

Sorry, no overheat immunity. page 181 of the big rule book "A roll of 1 always fails, irrespective of any modifiers that may apply"

Though veterans with are going to love that 2+ to hit they could get, though 50 conscripts hitting on 4+ is going to be interesting.

Well got my copy, read the R&H list. Its terrible. Its IG w/o orders, worse stats at the same cost. Guess ill be using the IG index until a proper index is out for us.

Darkmind wrote:
Well got my copy, read the R&H list. Its terrible. Its IG w/o orders, worse stats at the same cost. Guess ill be using the IG index until a proper index is out for us.

If R&H are the same as AM, but with chaos-goodies then why play AM at all? Hopefully it won't be like last edition where AM was one of the worst factions and the answer to "how do I win with guard" was "go play renegade"...

I'm really excited to surprise someone with charging Sentry Pylons. Seems like a nice way to move them up the field quickly

FunJohn wrote:

Darkmind wrote:
Well got my copy, read the R&H list. Its terrible. Its IG w/o orders, worse stats at the same cost. Guess ill be using the IG index until a proper index is out for us.

If R&H are the same as AM, but with chaos-goodies then why play AM at all? Hopefully it won't be like last edition where AM was one of the worst factions and the answer to "how do I win with guard" was "go play renegade"...

Well, right now it's a bit of the opposite. AM is one of the best factions right now and the answer to "how do I win with Renegades" will be "go play Guard". There is literally no competitive reason to play R&H right now, as your unique units are worse than the equivalent ones from AM, and the ones you share are exactly the same, statline, cost everything. For a comparison, R&H either have Cultists directly ported from CSM, or they have WS/BS5+ Sv 6+ D6+2 LD for the exact same price, with the benefits being a re-roll to their probably terrible LD, the possibility for a chainsword eq. and an additional special weapon. Their Enforcers are Commissars, but with worse LD and D3 losses on execution instead of 1, for the same price.

Right now, AM aren't AM with Chaos goodies really. Not only do they not do anything better than AM apart from some weird fluffy assault lists, but they don't do anything different from AM! They are just a bad clone of AM, with the ability to ally with Chaos instead ot the Imperium. If they did something special, that might be redeemable but right now, you could play a R&H army one game and one AM army another and don't feel any different. Your infantry are Guardsmen but worse, your HWT are Guardsmen but worse, your Enforcers are Commisars but worse, your Ogryns are Ogryns but worse etc. Your tanks are AM tanks, because you are just told to take them from the AM list.

I don't even play R&H, I play DKoK, but I feel terrible for those that do. They had some flavour in previous editions, with their cheaper but worse stuff. Right now, they are just worse, not cheaper. I thought my list was shafted with some of the units (Combat Engineers with Hades or Rapiers, Heavy Artillery Carriages and so on), but that is nothing compared to R&H.

I guess you could play fluffy assault hordes with Covenant of Khorne, but it won't net you any wins because your units are bad at shooting and only slightly better at assault, but they are still not a good assault army and you've sacrified a lot of your shooting for that average close combat prowess.

ScarVet101 wrote:

 ross-128 wrote:


Granted, it's only one unit per searchlight, so it's kind of a quasi-Order. But we can put +1 to hit and make plasma weapons IMMUNE TO OVERHEATING! That's awesome! That thing hardly needs a weapon, it can pay for itself just by doing that!

Sorry, no overheat immunity. page 181 of the big rule book "A roll of 1 always fails, irrespective of any modifiers that may apply"

Though veterans with are going to love that 2+ to hit they could get, though 50 conscripts hitting on 4+ is going to be interesting.

That sentence refers to the to hit roll failing, and doesn't actually make the result a one. Plasma overcharge is a separate rule and absolutely uses the modified value, thus immunity with a +1.

 Aenarian wrote:
What the hell, they removed Earthshaker Carriage Batteries and Medusa Carriage Batteries from DKoK? FOOOOOOORGEEEEE WOOOOOOOOOORRLD

Wait a sec I'm still waiting for my index but is this true? Did they really remove Earthshaker and Medusa batteries from the DKoK?
If they did man that sucks.

Reading through the IG book, I get the impression that FW were told about 8E about the same time the rest of us were and knocked everything out in a month. There's tons of stuff missing, or just odd.

Stuff like Grenadiers having only 2 specials while MT get up to 4, no apparent Hades option for DKoK engineers, Leman Russ Conqueror's just being flat out superior to basic LRBT's for the points, inconsistencies in T values with the basic codex, etc.

Really a mess of a book from what I've seen, but that seems to apply to everything released thus far.

As is tradition...

I'm a bit disappointed with the book. Loads of Ork units missing, inconsistencies with the Index books (for example unique characters don't have their wargear priced into their unit cost and the 'ard case costs points in IA:Xenos), flawed datasheets (Buzzgob's datasheet outlines the KFF rules but he has no option to take it, or any point cost associated with it) and the general poor quality of the rules and points costs. Buzzgob's BS4+ just for a slugga, Zhadsnark doing nothing at all for Warbikers, overpriced ranged weapons (that at least is consistent with the Ork weapons in the Index I suppose), overpriced and under-optioned Kustom Stompa and the list goes on. All in all I would not have bought the book if I'd have looked inside it first, but I will no doubt end up using some of the rules regardless.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Reading through the IG book, I get the impression that FW were told about 8E about the same time the rest of us were and knocked everything out in a month. There's tons of stuff missing, or just odd.

Stuff like Grenadiers having only 2 specials while MT get up to 4, no apparent Hades option for DKoK engineers, Leman Russ Conqueror's just being flat out superior to basic LRBT's for the points, inconsistencies in T values with the basic codex, etc.

Really a mess of a book from what I've seen, but that seems to apply to everything released thus far.

As is tradition...

I'm thinking that they may have been working from a non-finalised rule set too. MT could have had 2 specials until late in development. The battle cannon could have been nerfed at the last minute (I think it may have had 2d6 shots, which would make the conqueror fit as a weaker version).

Who knows? Something definitely went wrong though.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Reading through the IG book, I get the impression that FW were told about 8E about the same time the rest of us were and knocked everything out in a month. There's tons of stuff missing, or just odd.

Stuff like Grenadiers having only 2 specials while MT get up to 4, no apparent Hades option for DKoK engineers, Leman Russ Conqueror's just being flat out superior to basic LRBT's for the points, inconsistencies in T values with the basic codex, etc.

Really a mess of a book from what I've seen, but that seems to apply to everything released thus far.

As is tradition...

Haven't grenadiers always had two weapons while vets have had three? At least, since 5th edition I think. They've always seemed a bit off compared to their closest IG unit. I'm by no means the DKoK expert though.

Trickstick wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Reading through the IG book, I get the impression that FW were told about 8E about the same time the rest of us were and knocked everything out in a month. There's tons of stuff missing, or just odd.

Stuff like Grenadiers having only 2 specials while MT get up to 4, no apparent Hades option for DKoK engineers, Leman Russ Conqueror's just being flat out superior to basic LRBT's for the points, inconsistencies in T values with the basic codex, etc.

Really a mess of a book from what I've seen, but that seems to apply to everything released thus far.

As is tradition...

I'm thinking that they may have been working from a non-finalised rule set too. MT could have had 2 specials until late in development. The battle cannon could have been nerfed at the last minute (I think it may have had 2d6 shots, which would make the conqueror fit as a weaker version).

Who knows? Something definitely went wrong though.

Yeah, lots of stuff that doesn't seem to line up for whatever reason, missing or nonfunctionally worded options, etc. It feels like a last minute hack job. I would be upset if I'd paid money for the book.

daedalus wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Reading through the IG book, I get the impression that FW were told about 8E about the same time the rest of us were and knocked everything out in a month. There's tons of stuff missing, or just odd.

Stuff like Grenadiers having only 2 specials while MT get up to 4, no apparent Hades option for DKoK engineers, Leman Russ Conqueror's just being flat out superior to basic LRBT's for the points, inconsistencies in T values with the basic codex, etc.

Really a mess of a book from what I've seen, but that seems to apply to everything released thus far.

As is tradition...

Haven't grenadiers always had two weapons while vets have had three? At least, since 5th edition I think. They've always seemed a bit off compared to their closest IG unit. I'm by no means the DKoK expert though.

Well, sort of. "Grenadiers", initially, were just Stormtroopers taken as troops. Then they made "Grenadiers" a carapace upgrade option for Veterans and removed the ability to take Stormtroopers as Troops as Stormtroopers gained AP3 as well as a reduced range, but then when FW updated their rules the DKoK Grenadiers ended up being Stormtroopers (without the deployment options) and not Veterans. It appears they remain so, just without the extra weapon options, and they cost 1ppm less and can't Deep Strike or anything.

 daedalus wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Reading through the IG book, I get the impression that FW were told about 8E about the same time the rest of us were and knocked everything out in a month. There's tons of stuff missing, or just odd.

Stuff like Grenadiers having only 2 specials while MT get up to 4, no apparent Hades option for DKoK engineers, Leman Russ Conqueror's just being flat out superior to basic LRBT's for the points, inconsistencies in T values with the basic codex, etc.

Really a mess of a book from what I've seen, but that seems to apply to everything released thus far.

As is tradition...

Haven't grenadiers always had two weapons while vets have had three? At least, since 5th edition I think. They've always seemed a bit off compared to their closest IG unit. I'm by no means the DKoK expert though.

Fluffwise they're still just Guardsmen. Senior Guardsmen* with better guns but still technically Guardsmen.

*Well not really because a Senior Guardsman is the DKoK version of a corporal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Reading through the IG book, I get the impression that FW were told about 8E about the same time the rest of us were and knocked everything out in a month. There's tons of stuff missing, or just odd.

Stuff like Grenadiers having only 2 specials while MT get up to 4, no apparent Hades option for DKoK engineers, Leman Russ Conqueror's just being flat out superior to basic LRBT's for the points, inconsistencies in T values with the basic codex, etc.

Really a mess of a book from what I've seen, but that seems to apply to everything released thus far.

As is tradition...

But we can take veterans in a Hades... which is strange because we don't really have vets and they can't have 4+ saves.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Trickstick wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Reading through the IG book, I get the impression that FW were told about 8E about the same time the rest of us were and knocked everything out in a month. There's tons of stuff missing, or just odd.

Stuff like Grenadiers having only 2 specials while MT get up to 4, no apparent Hades option for DKoK engineers, Leman Russ Conqueror's just being flat out superior to basic LRBT's for the points, inconsistencies in T values with the basic codex, etc.

Really a mess of a book from what I've seen, but that seems to apply to everything released thus far.

As is tradition...

I'm thinking that they may have been working from a non-finalised rule set too. MT could have had 2 specials until late in development. The battle cannon could have been nerfed at the last minute (I think it may have had 2d6 shots, which would make the conqueror fit as a weaker version).

Who knows? Something definitely went wrong though.

Yeah, lots of stuff that doesn't seem to line up for whatever reason, missing or nonfunctionally worded options, etc. It feels like a last minute hack job. I would be upset if I'd paid money for the book.

I don't want to be too negative; I'm happy to be able to have rules to use for the fw stuff, and I plan to use plenty of these units. 8th has me excited and these units offer me more options (my looted wagon is a big trakk now!). But I have to agree that this book is of very poor quality.

Who knew I'd miss alphabetically ordered lists that badly (check the faction wargear and point cost pages). The worst for me is the wraithseer. It can use a wraithcannon or a d-cannon instead of the usual eldar heavy weapons. The strongest of these two weapons averages to about 2 slightly stronger lascannon shots a turn, it's not the 7th ed D. It is cheaper and arguably less powerful than some wraithlord loadouts. The thing is that using one of these two weapons raises the wraithseer's power by +1. That is not how power works. I mean really, they should know how power levels work.

Another thing that annoys me about this book is that Death Korps players need to buy Index 2 just to use 5 units from it.

 Skawt wrote:
My copy's is on its way across the pond, but can anyone share some details on the sythed hirodule?

Well depending on the wording.. they either didnt get enough talons.. or the Barbed got too many..

But other than that they look good