Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Skyweavers got a bit cheaper, for what it's worth, but they were super-expensive to begin with.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I want Jetbikes that feel like they get something out of being Jetbikes instead of the poor-man's-Crisis-Suits we get. Melee weapons. Fusion guns. Move-shoot-move. That sort of thing.

With the fairly new craftworld Jetbike kit, extra weapon options aren't likely to happen anytime soon. Also the melee options are covered by shining spears.

Personally don't like Move-Shoot-Move. Whilst fitting, the mechanic often just ends up frustrating whomever plays against it. There are only so many times a person can be told that they've just been shot by a unit they can't shoot back.

- Cheaper twin shuri-catapults would be nice. Moving into practical melee range with such a fast unit should have a big payoff, but the cost and fragility of the unit makes the risk too great.
An overall slight price reduction on the base jetbike would be much appreciated. I think multiple wounds are generally overpriced on bike units across multiple armies.

- Better internal balance amongst the falcon chassis tanks.
As it stands, Wave Serpents are tougher, have a bigger transport bay and are the most efficient AT platform (Using T7, 3+ save)
Then Falcons
Then Nightspinners
And in dead last, the utterly woeful Fire Prism.

Its so bad, that a stationary Fire Prism with Shuriken Cannon does less wounds to a T7, 3+ save model than the same number of points in the star anti-tank and fairly costed unit of Dire Avengers.

I also think that this is a case of the Prism Cannon (and, to a slightly lesser extent, the Doomweaver) needing to be upgunned or have more utility than the tank as a whole getting a points drop.
If the current Fire Prism was as efficient as a Twin Brightlance, Shuriken Cannon Wave Serpent against T7, 3+ then the whole package would need to cost 98 points.
In a world where Rhinos have 2 less wounds, no fly, lower movement and cost 70 points, thats just taking the piss.

Straight up doubling the Prism Cannon's damage output would put it in the roughly the right ballpark (about 0.0232 wounds per point for a stationary Shuriken Cannon Fire Prism). For reference, this is less efficient than Dark Reapers, Crimson Hunters, Hemlock Wraithfighters and War Walkers.
For the Doomweaver, re-adding some movement shenanigans (-2" of movement to Infantry units wounded by it and nearby ones for example?) and a small amount of damage should put it in a good spot.
Wave Serpents also likely need a nerf.

- Dire Avengers need to be cheaper

- Vypers need to be cheaper

- Guardians either having a Rapid Fire 1, 24" Shuriken Catapult with Dire Avengers keeping an assault version or Guardians having access to a completely different weapon option with a range >12"

- Craftworld special rules being unique to non-Ynaari to balance Battle Focus being worse than Strength from Death. Or alternatively have the Craftworld special rule(s) replacing the faction rule.

- Saim Hann Craftworld rule
> let transports move then disembark passengers
> Windrider Jetbikes have a battlefield role of troops
> Jetbikes have 6+++ dodge save? Or some other small boost to survivability?

Introduce the ability "Skilled rider" and apply it to all <Saim Hann> jetbikes: If the unit has Advanced, it is -1 to be hit and counts as "50% in cover" regardless of actually being in cover or not

Fast pointy ear wrote:

Personally don't like Move-Shoot-Move. Whilst fitting, the mechanic often just ends up frustrating whomever plays against it. There are only so many times a person can be told that they've just been shot by a unit they can't shoot back.

See, this is where reworking Overwatch to be a conscious decision to sacrifice shooting in your turn to interrupt your enemy after "declaring to attack" would have been an ideal fix. That, or allowing AOE weapons to model "barrage bombardment" where you could fire at a point, and make units *entering* that point take damage. In fact, if you read Pete Haines' old fluff on IG Armored Companies, they're usually described as having excessive artillery support assigned for such a purpose, to cordon off enemy mobility.

As for random bits ported to 8e:

-I wish the Death Jester had access to a Prismatic Lance, for more general flexibility/tacticalness.

-I always found it weird that the Voidweaver worked best going Backwards. I imagine that for 7e, upping its cost by 30-40 points and making it a Flyer with Vector Dancer was the way to go; this would give it a distinct role to the Starweaver rather than being a mandatory Formation Tax. I do still find it weird that it's modeled to have an aft-firing cannon but this has no impact in-game.

-Fire Dragons get to alternate between Fusion or Flamer mode, both options weaker than the "core". They should be breachers extraordinaire rather than strict AT. Maybe let the Exarch take an Eldarified Demolition Charge for some extra havoc.

-Dire Avengers get to emphasize the "balanced" parts of their aspects. They get to throw an extra grenade over other units, bring deployable cover, and get 3+ armor.

I like the Fire Dragon suggestion a lot - it addresses the internal balance issue that Wraithguard are, for the most part, as good at AT as Fire Dragons.

After seeing 2 <chapter> tactics rules (RG: -1 to hit and UM: +1Ld and fall back/shoot). I am guessing the different <Craftworld> will be:
-Aspect Warriors gaining the +1 BS/WS again (possibly counting as troops too)
-Wraiths gaining old Battle Focus (possibly counting as troops too)
-Shuriken weapons rending on a 5+ instead of 6+

What do you guys think?

Tautastic wrote:
After seeing 2 <chapter> tactics rules (RG: -1 to hit and UM: +1Ld and fall back/shoot). I am guessing the different <Craftworld> will be:
-Aspect Warriors gaining the +1 BS/WS again (possibly counting as troops too)
-Wraiths gaining old Battle Focus (possibly counting as troops too)
-Shuriken weapons rending on a 5+ instead of 6+

What do you guys think?

It's a per-craftworld thing, not a per-aspect.

So you'd get something like:

Saim-Hann: Buff to Jetbikes
Ulthwe: Buff to Guardians

Etc.

You cannot give Aspect Warriors +1 BS/WS...they do not deserve to be 2+ (much as Guardians do not deserve to be their current 3+).

 Elbows wrote:
You cannot give Aspect Warriors +1 BS/WS...they do not deserve to be 2+ (much as Guardians do not deserve to be their current 3+).

Canonically, some of them are old war veterans.. IG Vets get a 3+ from being career soldiers with human targetting gear and eyesight...

OTOH, I wouldn't mind the nerf to 4+ if they had 24" range rifles.

The classic Craftworld traits would actually be pretty different from the two Marine traits we've seen, which apply broadly to units which are expected to form the bulk of any Marine army. It'd be kind of weird if, after these, Alatoic had a rule that only buffs Rangers (1 unit) and Ulthwe had a rule that only buffs Guardians (2 units) and Saim-Hann had a rule that only buffs Jetbikes (2 units).

They might do this -- it's kind of the obvious path to take -- but traits consistent with the Marines' would look a lot different.

Specific unit buffs are problematic because they create an annoying incentive to create spammy lists and go Craftworld shopping. You build a good generic Eldar army and then you observe that you've used a bunch of Guardians so might as well pick Ulthwe for free buffs. Either you balance Wraiths around Iyanden and make them probably not worth it in a generic list or you risk Iyanden being too strong.

On the other hand, army composition is what has historically distinguished the Craftworlds and it would be hard to hand out buffs which apply broadly but also encourage fluffy composition.

I kind of like the idea of giving each Craftworld a broadly useful trait and then giving a pretty irrelevant buff to their characteristic units, like counting them as Troops. Of course, this probably means you see a lot of Ulthwe Aspect Hosts, if their broad trait turns out to be good for that.

nerfing wave serpent so that actual battle tank feel more like heavy hitter

sabarslax wrote:
nerfing wave serpent so that actual battle tank feel more like heavy hitter

The Wave Seprent is pretty balanced for its cost right now. What's needed is a Fire Prism and Falcon buff, because they are pretty much useless right now. Nerfing the WS without changing them just drops Eldar by a tier.

I am leaning more toward a very broad buff for the different <Craftwords> similar to how the 2 chapter tactics that have been revealed.

I think there is currently 3 very thematic lists; Aspect Warriors, Wraiths, and Guardian heavy lists.

Aspect Warriors getting the +1 to BS or WS is very similar to Raven Guard's -1 to hit.

Wraiths getting automatic 6" advance move seems reasonable. Maybe also being able to assault and/or shoot heavy weapons at -1 to hit.

Guardians getting a buff to their shuriken weapons. Maybe +6" range or 5+ to rend.

Specific strategems would be a little hard to guess. I am thinking one of them might be to give all shuriken weapons rend for the shooting phase for 3 CP. One wraith unit being able to advance and extra D6" for 1 CP. No idea what the Aspect Warriors would get...Maybe a scout move or Deep Strike for 1 CP per unit?

Tautastic wrote:
I am leaning more toward a very broad buff for the different <Craftwords> similar to how the 2 chapter tactics that have been revealed.

I think there is currently 3 very thematic lists; Aspect Warriors, Wraiths, and Guardian heavy lists.

There are more than 3 themes that are fieldable in CWE...

I like to bring Khaine and a bunch of Guardians.

Saim-Hann is Jetbike Spam
Ulthwe is Guardian/War Walker spam

You can go with the old Epic: Armageddon thing with Biel-Tan's Swordwind list - tank heavy.

 Selym wrote:

Tautastic wrote:
I am leaning more toward a very broad buff for the different <Craftwords> similar to how the 2 chapter tactics that have been revealed.

I think there is currently 3 very thematic lists; Aspect Warriors, Wraiths, and Guardian heavy lists.

There are more than 3 themes that are fieldable in CWE...

I like to bring Khaine and a bunch of Guardians.

Saim-Hann is Jetbike Spam
Ulthwe is Guardian/War Walker spam

You can go with the old Epic: Armageddon thing with Biel-Tan's Swordwind list - tank heavy.

To be fair the three example you gave are basically some form of a guardian heavy theme list. Maybe the exception of Saim-Hann (Shinning Spears), but that will only benefit 2 units and I think the buffs would be much broader and affect more units. I think they will avoid buffing Monsters and Vehicles anymore this edition. Sfd and the 2 chapter tactics exclude vehicles and monsters with a small exceptions (Ycarne and Dreads).

I surely would assume that Ulthwé's craftworld tactics would also benefit Farseers and Warlocks in some way, as well as Guardians.

I'm curious if we're likely to see rules for the different Masques, to be honest. The Veiled Path having better Shadowseers? The Midnight Sorrow improving the Solitaire? Interesting possibilities there.

I just had a horrible idea.

What if GW decided that CWE, DE and Harlies are "all just Eldar anyway", rolled them into one codex and distributed CT's thusly:

Craftworlds: Battle Focus
Commorraghians: Power From Pain
Ynnari: Strength From Death
Harlequins: Rising Crescendo

Distributed to units as they are now. Just... making those the Eldar version of CT's.

 Selym wrote:
I just had a horrible idea.

What if GW decided that CWE, DE and Harlies are "all just Eldar anyway", rolled them into one codex and distributed CT's thusly:

Craftworlds: Battle Focus
Commorraghians: Power From Pain
Ynnari: Strength From Death
Harlequins: Rising Crescendo

Distributed to units as they are now. Just... making those the Eldar version of CT's.

So, exactly like the last edition then?

 Selym wrote:
I just had a horrible idea.

What if GW decided that CWE, DE and Harlies are "all just Eldar anyway", rolled them into one codex and distributed CT's thusly:

Craftworlds: Battle Focus
Commorraghians: Power From Pain
Ynnari: Strength From Death
Harlequins: Rising Crescendo

Distributed to units as they are now. Just... making those the Eldar version of CT's.

I highly doubt it. Mainly because Space Marines has an extra special rule beside the CT's (reroll morale).
What would be interesting is how would they separate the Codexes. I do not think Ynnari and Harlequins needs its own Codex unless they add more units to them both.

possible, but Why would GW sell just one £30 rulebook when they could sell four?

That strikes me as pretty unlikely since Craftworlds are such an easy thing to do and are something that Eldar players really want. You need like 5 or 6 of them total and there's prior work suggesting themes, and the fluff in the codex is already going to mention the different Craftworlds. Also, they did explicitly promise this in Your Codex is Coming: "For you gamers out there, one very exciting addition are new rules representing specific sub-groups in many of the major factions; these range from old classics like the Space Marine Chapters or Chaos Space Marine Legions to returning rules for individual craftworlds, as well as previously unexplored groupings like Necron dynasties and Adeptus Mechanicus forge worlds. These will be included in each codex."

Dark Eldar Kabals, Cults, and Covens seem a lot trickier. These aren't nearly as all-encompassing as Chapters or Regiments or Craftworlds. As far as I can tell, and not counting the vehicles which can be from wherever, the only <Kabal> units are Archons (and their courts), Warriors, Trueborn, and Ravagers. Covens are in similar shape and Cults only do a little better. They're probably not going to have 5 of each of these, right? And I don't think there's a whole lot of fluff on particular groups the way there is with Craftworlds. I could see being given a set of generic rules where we just pick one for each of our groups.

Harlequins are at least almost universally from a Masque, and that's their only grouping, but again they have a problem where nobody knows much about different Masques, and certainly they don't have any preexisting gameplay identity. The subfaction is small enough that maybe they don't get rules like this.

And then Ynnari are either going to just let their units keep their Craftworld/Kabal/Masque rules or require that they give them up in order to get Strength from Death.

Tautastic wrote:

 Selym wrote:
I just had a horrible idea.

What if GW decided that CWE, DE and Harlies are "all just Eldar anyway", rolled them into one codex and distributed CT's thusly:

Craftworlds: Battle Focus
Commorraghians: Power From Pain
Ynnari: Strength From Death
Harlequins: Rising Crescendo

Distributed to units as they are now. Just... making those the Eldar version of CT's.

I highly doubt it. Mainly because Space Marines has an extra special rule beside the CT's (reroll morale).
What would be interesting is how would they separate the Codexes. I do not think Ynnari and Harlequins needs its own Codex unless they add more units to them both.

T'was a horrible idea because of that fact, not in spite of it. It would be rather in keeping with GW's theme of SM's being the snowflake army while Xenos and Heretics are left as either too powerful to use and have friends or too weak to field.

I reckon they'll either do what they did last edition, with Codex: Asuryani and Codex: Drukhari, and DLC content for Harlies and Ynnari; or they'll do a hack job of "adding" stuff to Harlequins and Ynnari lists to make a just-thick-enough codex for £30 each.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dionysodorus wrote:
That strikes me as pretty unlikely since Craftworlds are such an easy thing to do and are something that Eldar players really want. You need like 5 or 6 of them total and there's prior work suggesting themes, and the fluff in the codex is already going to mention the different Craftworlds. Also, they did explicitly promise this in Your Codex is Coming: "For you gamers out there, one very exciting addition are new rules representing specific sub-groups in many of the major factions; these range from old classics like the Space Marine Chapters or Chaos Space Marine Legions to returning rules for individual craftworlds, as well as previously unexplored groupings like Necron dynasties and Adeptus Mechanicus forge worlds. These will be included in each codex."

GW has lied to us before, and I do not believe they have the time or the motivation to do as promised, given the ludicrous release schedule that has been put forward. Odds are that if they do it at all, it will be done so poorly or so badly balanced that we'll wish they'd not bothered.

 Selym wrote:

GW has lied to us before, and I do not believe they have the time or the motivation to do as promised, given the ludicrous release schedule that has been put forward. Odds are that if they do it at all, it will be done so poorly or so badly balanced that we'll wish they'd not bothered.

Given the ludicrous release schedule, I suspect that the codex was mostly done when they wrote that. I imagine that internal testing has been using more than a few WIP codices since before 8th launched. Probably many of the indices are basically: take the current version of the codex, strip out most special rules and any new models, and then maybe do a quick pass to see if that breaks anything.

They might be poorly balanced, sure. It'll be interesting to see how the Marine codex turns out.

 Robin5t wrote:
I'm curious if we're likely to see rules for the different Masques, to be honest. The Veiled Path having better Shadowseers? The Midnight Sorrow improving the Solitaire? Interesting possibilities there.

In the fluff, the solitaires don't belong to any masque. They just happen to join masques during battles, but don't stick around. In the current rule, it's also the case as they're the only unit in the index without the <Masque> faction keyword.

For Harlequins, I see two options:
- the barebone option, where the codex is basically the same thing as the index, with the addition of the relics that were in the 7th ed. codex, plus a couple stratagems (no masque benefits). Fluff and art would be mostly re-used material, and the codex would be a mini-dex like in 7th, or folded into another Aeldari dex.
- the flesh-out option, where they create different rules for the different masques, with new fluff to back it up. This would also come with a least a new kit, and again, fluff and art that goes with it.

And since this thread is pure wishlisting, I would love a Slaneesh release, with a box set that features Slaneesh vs Harlequins, introducing new models from both factions.

I think one thing that needs a major rework is their psychic powers - that's the big reason I picked up Eldar in the first place and would love to see it get a surge. I really miss throwing an eldritch storm at that clump of Tau crisis suits. Same goes for distort weapons, I'd love to get a fluffier version of them than a generic gun.

Also, maybe a minority opinion, but I'd like the wraightknight looked at again. It's not hideous, but it's over-costed currently.

fresus wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:
I'm curious if we're likely to see rules for the different Masques, to be honest. The Veiled Path having better Shadowseers? The Midnight Sorrow improving the Solitaire? Interesting possibilities there.

In the fluff, the solitaires don't belong to any masque. They just happen to join masques during battles, but don't stick around. In the current rule, it's also the case as they're the only unit in the index without the <Masque> faction keyword.

I would love to see a Special Character option for the Harlequins, specifically the Solitaire. As of now, they are good and cheap ( I wish we could get more than one on the table). If only we could get a better version, say 250 points who could be a real beast and go toe-to-toe with greater demons and similar.

Something like the Ancient Solitaire: The Ancient Solitaire has walked the ages between the Aeldari, just outside of Slaanesh's grasp. He knows how fragile their race is, and how close they are to extinction.
M: 12
WS 2+
BS 2+
S 3
T 3
W 8
A 10
LD 10

Has a 3+ Invulnerable save.
Enemy Models suffer -2 to hit him in the shooting phase.
Enemy Models suffer -1 to hit him in the fight phase.
Add +1 Damage to all attacks made by his weapons (kiss,caress)
Any Roll of 6 to wound (in addition to normal damage) does a single mortal wound.

fresus wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:
I'm curious if we're likely to see rules for the different Masques, to be honest. The Veiled Path having better Shadowseers? The Midnight Sorrow improving the Solitaire? Interesting possibilities there.

In the fluff, the solitaires don't belong to any masque. They just happen to join masques during battles, but don't stick around. In the current rule, it's also the case as they're the only unit in the index without the <Masque> faction keyword.

For Harlequins, I see two options:
- the barebone option, where the codex is basically the same thing as the index, with the addition of the relics that were in the 7th ed. codex, plus a couple stratagems (no masque benefits). Fluff and art would be mostly re-used material, and the codex would be a mini-dex like in 7th, or folded into another Aeldari dex.
- the flesh-out option, where they create different rules for the different masques, with new fluff to back it up. This would also come with a least a new kit, and again, fluff and art that goes with it.

And since this thread is pure wishlisting, I would love a Slaneesh release, with a box set that features Slaneesh vs Harlequins, introducing new models from both factions.

In the fluff, the Midnight Sorrow are specifically noted to attract Solitaires with greater regularity than other Masques due to the way they fight, act and generally go about their business.

I have to add something


Dark Eldar

HQ options.... FFS DE is.. do you wan to walk or ride in transport? On there is only 2 transports you can have if you want a unit with you, Raider or Tantalus..... Where is the Wings, Skyboards, Bikes options....
Reavers actually have a roll and get a special upgrade per like Eldar, Harlequin and Corsair bikes do... Why are DE bikes 1 per 3? WTF is that sh!t
Drazhar ability to change... +1 to hit is pointless.... sense he cant be ynnari and that means your Incubi will be DE with PFP, you already get +1 to hit....... He would be Re-rolls
Court cheaper.. They are extremely costly due to them being Characters, 25-30% less cost and you still wont see them played alot.. Maybe Ssylth might be played then.


Harlequins

Death Jester 2 weapon modes mix together into the 1 mode with 3 shots... as of right now he is over costed and doesnt really work.


Corsairs

The Army back....... and special weapons in pairs, no 10pt power swords for no reason, oh and the rules back.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I have to add something


Dark Eldar

HQ options.... FFS DE is.. do you wan to walk or ride in transport? On there is only 2 transports you can have if you want a unit with you, Raider or Tantalus..... Where is the Wings, Skyboards, Bikes options....
Reavers actually have a roll and get a special upgrade per like Eldar, Harlequin and Corsair bikes do... Why are DE bikes 1 per 3? WTF is that sh!t
Drazhar ability to change... +1 to hit is pointless.... sense he cant be ynnari and that means your Incubi will be DE with PFP, you already get +1 to hit....... He would be Re-rolls
Court cheaper.. They are extremely costly due to them being Characters, 25-30% less cost and you still wont see them played alot.. Maybe Ssylth might be played then.


Harlequins

Death Jester 2 weapon modes mix together into the 1 mode with 3 shots... as of right now he is over costed and doesnt really work.


Corsairs

The Army back....... and special weapons in pairs, no 10pt power swords for no reason, oh and the rules back.

Right on the mark, however I'm not sure on the courts of archon yet. They have done well for me in a archons/court deathstar in the couple of games I played with them. I think most of their success is due to the character rules and how they have to be targeted. Can be very annoying to resolve in combat though.

I use all of them except urghuls. I've maybe got lucky rolls with my lhamaen and consistently get at least an extra mortal wound. Although I'm disappointed my medusae lost their flamer status and automatic hits, I wish they would fix that back but they still did decent damage output for me. No longer effective at overwatch though. Sslyth and archons in the front can tank the incoming fire and fire long range.