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What you are expressing basically means that minority people should be held to different standards to majority people.

What if we expected that Jewish people should declare the religion before having sex, because most people aren't Jewish. You can't see they are Jewish, after all.

How is that equal?

Isn't there a basic assumption that there is some kind of problem with having sex with a minority, and it's the minority's fault?

From a Swedish perspective, having sex with someone under false pretenses when you knew or had reason to believe that they would not otherwise consent would be rape. I'm torn on the issue, because while I don't think people should care that their partner(s) is/are trans, people do care. I think I'd land in the same point Prestor Jon made and conclude that if you'd trigger a murder-frenzy by having sex with a transgender person the onus is on you to make sure you ask before. It's impossible to know what sort of silly prejudices someone else has, and it's a bit silly to put the onus on anyone other than the person with the prejudice.

 whembly wrote:
.... that's not rape. It's alot of other things, but definitely not rape.

...this thread is going places...

well the thread was craptacular to begin with.
In Frazzled's world: man commits murder, gets the needle. In other news Canada officially consents to becoming "Norte Texas."

I went through some cultural training recently with my company. It had various stats on various groups as far as health related issues, social issues and other. Here is what absolutely, 100% floored me and I recall the exact percentage because it was so shocking to me:

The Transgender population is 1600% more likely to be murdered.

I can pretty much bank the stat is true, since my Fortune 100 does not put out arbitrary or unresearched info.

The guy should be locked away for freakin' ever and my sincere condolences to the family of the victim. Clearly, the man was a nut case and thought it was alright to bully and murder this person - tragic.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
What you are expressing basically means that minority people should be held to different standards to majority people.

What if we expected that Jewish people should declare the religion before having sex, because most people aren't Jewish. You can't see they are Jewish, after all.

How is that equal?

Isn't there a basic assumption that there is some kind of problem with having sex with a minority, and it's the minority's fault?

There is a problem with your analogy there. Religion is one of things that is listed under a persons profile at a dating site. So people who go to contact you would know, if they bothered to look of course, what your religion is before you agree to meet.

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
What you are expressing basically means that minority people should be held to different standards to majority people.

What if we expected that Jewish people should declare the religion before having sex, because most people aren't Jewish. You can't see they are Jewish, after all.

How is that equal?

Isn't there a basic assumption that there is some kind of problem with having sex with a minority, and it's the minority's fault?

There is a problem with your analogy there. Religion is one of things that is listed under a persons profile at a dating site. So people who go to contact you would know, if they bothered to look of course, what your religion is before you agree to meet.

There are people who also lie about it as well on dating sites. and then there are people running around cat fishing as well.

people are weird.

Oldmike wrote:
[

In some sates in the US it is rape if a man lies about what job he has and there was the story in the UK were a woman was just jailed for pretending to be a man and having sex with another woman

In New Jersey it is considered sexual assault if you get sex by lying about, or deceiving by omission of deal breaking facts about, your life. The inspiration behind passing this law was a women that felt "raped" because her new boyfriend said he didn't have children (he had a young daughter).

I'd say that if they wanted that to be considered sexual assault, that omitting your trans status to someone looking for a "woman" would at least qualify.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
From a Swedish perspective, having sex with someone under false pretenses when you knew or had reason to believe that they would not otherwise consent would be rape. I'm torn on the issue, because while I don't think people should care that their partner(s) is/are trans, people do care. I think I'd land in the same point Prestor Jon made and conclude that if you'd trigger a murder-frenzy by having sex with a transgender person the onus is on you to make sure you ask before. It's impossible to know what sort of silly prejudices someone else has, and it's a bit silly to put the onus on anyone other than the person with the prejudice.

UK had a case too. It was considered rape by deception when a woman pretended to be a man, and had sex pretending to be a man, blindfolding the woman.
The court ruled it rape and she got jail time. This is all UK law of course. (diffrent case, different country and legal system) (we have different legal details and case precedents to the US)

However much legal precedent this side considers it so its no excuse for murder. Lets make that clear now.
It was judged under information that would of caused someone not to consent, so it invalidated the consent I believe is the legal logic.

And lastly. Yes Trans should be treated fairly, and not be the issue ir is.
However it is.

And that means honesty and disclosure seems the only way forward as of current.

 Desubot wrote:

people are weird.

Truer words have never been spoken.

I think there are things that are common sense to disclose to a partner as they are more likely to cause problems than something as petty as hair colour. If something is highly likely to affect someone's choice of consent, you should volunteer it rather than wait for them to stumble across it or wait for them to think of raising the issue themselves.

As I said, told my current gf I was still married when we met because I assumed in probability she'd want to know before going on. I didn't wait months for her to say 'hey, look it's not possible you're actually married and just neglected to tell me all this time? Because that would kinda be important.'

 MDSW wrote:
I went through some cultural training recently with my company. It had various stats on various groups as far as health related issues, social issues and other. Here is what absolutely, 100% floored me and I recall the exact percentage because it was so shocking to me:

The Transgender population is 1600% more likely to be murdered.

I can pretty much bank the stat is true, since my Fortune 100 does not put out arbitrary or unresearched info.

The guy should be locked away for freakin' ever and my sincere condolences to the family of the victim. Clearly, the man was a nut case and thought it was alright to bully and murder this person - tragic.

I've heard this before as well. Although it sounds a bit shocking, it's not quite as bad as it sounds. Trans people make up a disproportionately large amount of the streetwalker prostitutes. once you factor those out, and a number of other factors, they drop down significantly.

Christ on his cross this thread went horrific places. A lot of you should be very ashamed, and some of you won't be in the OT for a while. Jesus bloody wept.