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2018/01/07 17:01:28
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
tneva82 wrote: Unhappy are always more noisy than happy ones. Internet basics 101. Just because there's more complains doesn't mean most aren't happy and gw would need to be idiots to think so and do changes to next years schedule based on that. Once sale results come in that's more conclusive.
Once sales results come in it's a little late, don't you think? Not sure why you think they'd be wrong to change their schedule based on feedback either?
Sales data is there at the end of march. Then they can change schedule which if they put emergency calls will be visible late fall.
Changing schedule based on internet whining would mean they would be burning money changing plans always as complains are always loudest. If thev just listen internet everything they do is wrong. Complainers migh' change but complains are always loudest.
With year plus lead times such fickle changes are bad ldeas and then what when sales prove you wrong? You burned monev, change isn't even on stores for months and you need to change again. Gg. If you were at charge of gw it would be bankrupt at no time
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/01/07 17:08:28
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
ImAGeek wrote: It’s called the vocal minority for a reason.
You have evidence to prove this is the minority then?
We already have all the evidence we need to know that the backlash is from a minority’s. There is the group of people who are GW customers, then there is a subset of that group which is GW customers with Facebook accounts, then there is a subset of that group which is GW customers with Facebook accounts who are posting negative comments about the release on the Warhammer page. Same thing with this forum. There are all the DakkaDakka accounts then there are the DakkaDakka accounts that represent GW customers then there are the DakkaDakka accounts posting negative comments about the release schedule.
What evidence do you think exists that would lead someone to believe that a significant percentage of GW customers are posting negative feedback online and that GW will suffer lower sales if they don’t make changes to mollify the negative feedback?
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
2018/01/07 17:22:25
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
tneva82 wrote: IIf thev just listen internet everything they do is wrong.
But wait....aren't people on the internet largely responsible for telling GW that they need to make plastic Sisters? Don't you want plastic Sisters?! But if they listen to the internet everything they do is wrong?! Dat paradox life.
Prestor Jon wrote: We already have all the evidence we need to know that the backlash is from a minority’s. There is the group of people who are GW customers, then there is a subset of that group which is GW customers with Facebook accounts, then there is a subset of that group which is GW customers with Facebook accounts who are posting negative comments about the release on the Warhammer page. Same thing with this forum. There are all the DakkaDakka accounts then there are the DakkaDakka accounts that represent GW customers then there are the DakkaDakka accounts posting negative comments about the release schedule.
What evidence do you think exists that would lead someone to believe that a significant percentage of GW customers are posting negative feedback online and that GW will suffer lower sales if they don’t make changes to mollify the negative feedback?
You misunderstood what I meant by "minority". Just because a group is being vocal, that does not necessarily make it the "minority" in terms of it's feelings on a particular topic.
The number of people posting negative feedback online is representative (as you've said) of their entire customer base. The more people that are posting negatively online, the more people in their customer base that are unhappy. Their customer base hasn't suddenly increased overnight. Do the maths.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/07 17:23:11
2018/01/07 17:23:32
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
tneva82 wrote: Unhappy are always more noisy than happy ones. Internet basics 101. Just because there's more complains doesn't mean most aren't happy and gw would need to be idiots to think so and do changes to next years schedule based on that. Once sale results come in that's more conclusive.
Once sales results come in it's a little late, don't you think? Not sure why you think they'd be wrong to change their schedule based on feedback either?
ImAGeek wrote: The amount of dissent against something on the internet ultimately doesn’t prove anything.
Well it kinda does. Particularly when we look at other announcements that have been met with much more favourable responses. If every announcement GW made was like the one yesterday I would be sitting here agreeing with you both, but the fact is - it was entirely different. The reaction from the community was significantly more negative than "normal" (whatever that is) and I think it's that which speaks volumes.
[quote=Fenris-77 748075 9773835 1547.jpg
AlexHolker wrote: If GW was inclined to lump the Sisters in with Space Marines they would have got their plastic kits a decade ago. The Sisters do wear power armour, but they offer something distinct that the Custodes do not. The game is inundated with all sorts of "the best abhuman freaks genetic engineering and surgery can buy," but the Sisters are the best humans. They are the battlefield representatives of the Imperial Faith. And they are women.
I don't disagree, but y'know what's a LOT more distinctive and unique than women in power armour? Aliens. Rightly or wrongly, a SOB release will be seen as "more power armour" which I suspect will be very, very, very badly received.
Whatever else happens they will do more Space Marines - we still have wolfly wolf Wolves and their Primaris, plus likely Emperor's Children and World Eaters, plus Deathwatch, more Primaris etc etc
If they had been a bit more of a break between Imperial Codex's - ie mostly diferent coloured Marines it might have helped.
Again, I believe the backlash of the announcement yesterday will have GW reconsidering their release priorities. If it doesn't, they are not listening to their own customer base and they will no doubt suffer accordingly. Yes they have codexes to release, this isn't about codexes though, it's about new models. I suspect if the next kit release is anything other than a Xenos faction, there will be an incredibly negative reaction from a large proportion of the community. Something that GW will want to avoid I reckon.
The 'backlash' while loud, isn't representative of the community, and I'm pretty sure GW knows this very well. Listening to their customers isn't the same thing as "listen to their very vocal internet customer". GW has had a banner year, and no amount of internet grumbling ius going to make them "reconsider" a winning business plan. Not talking about anyone in particular here, but It always amazes me the degree to which people over-estimate the impact their forum and facebook tantrums are going to have.
How can you say that the backlash of the community isn't representative of said community? It makes no sense. The success of GW last year was down to a number of factors but one huge contributing factor was the "new GW" shtick through an excellent marketing and social media strategy. Not only was this marketing strong but the interaction with the community was positive. Yesterday was not.
I think you need to revisit what the word 'representative' means. The majority of the people who play 40K aren't crying into their Cheerios because the new release is Custodes, nor do those same people care much about the plastic sisters, or about the ratio of Xenos to Power Armor kits. The people who do care about that stuff are the hardcore fans who post a lot on sites like this one. The hardcore players are in no way at all 'representative' of the hobby in general though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/07 17:25:31
He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all.
2018/01/07 17:25:04
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
tneva82 wrote: IIf thev just listen internet everything they do is wrong.
But wait....aren't people on the internet largely responsible for telling GW that they need to make plastic Sisters? Don't you want plastic Sisters?! But if they listen to the internet everything they do is wrong?! Dat paradox life.
Prestor Jon wrote: We already have all the evidence we need to know that the backlash is from a minority’s. There is the group of people who are GW customers, then there is a subset of that group which is GW customers with Facebook accounts, then there is a subset of that group which is GW customers with Facebook accounts who are posting negative comments about the release on the Warhammer page. Same thing with this forum. There are all the DakkaDakka accounts then there are the DakkaDakka accounts that represent GW customers then there are the DakkaDakka accounts posting negative comments about the release schedule.
What evidence do you think exists that would lead someone to believe that a significant percentage of GW customers are posting negative feedback online and that GW will suffer lower sales if they don’t make changes to mollify the negative feedback?
You misunderstood what I meant by "minority". Just because a group is being vocal, that does not necessarily make it the "minority" in terms of it's feelings on a particular topic.
The number of people posting negative feedback online is representative (as you've said) of their entire customer base. The more people that are posting negatively online, the more people in their customer base that are unhappy. Their customer base hasn't suddenly increased overnight. Do the maths.
There was as much, if not more, negativity literally the other day when no models were shown at the end of the AoS Malign Portents countdown. There was much more negativity a couple of years ago when AoS was announced. There’s negativity for every release because you can’t please everyone.
2018/01/07 17:29:08
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
ImAGeek wrote: It’s called the vocal minority for a reason.
You have evidence to prove this is the minority then?
We already have all the evidence we need to know that the backlash is from a minority’s. There is the group of people who are GW customers, then there is a subset of that group which is GW customers with Facebook accounts, then there is a subset of that group which is GW customers with Facebook accounts who are posting negative comments about the release on the Warhammer page. Same thing with this forum. There are all the DakkaDakka accounts then there are the DakkaDakka accounts that represent GW customers then there are the DakkaDakka accounts posting negative comments about the release schedule.
What evidence do you think exists that would lead someone to believe that a significant percentage of GW customers are posting negative feedback online and that GW will suffer lower sales if they don’t make changes to mollify the negative feedback?
It’s just a product of the unfortunate tendency of humans to give more credence to people who agree with them and assume they’re in the majority. I’ve seen a lot of complaints about this release. I’ve also seen a lot of people very excited about it. The general feeling I get from Instagram feed is that people tend to be positive about most releases, are almost uniformly positive about well sculpted minis, whatever they might be and negative about poorly sculpted ones and most of the things I see being painted are new releases. Ultimately that only tells me something about the people I choose to follow though.
I’ve no evidence to say how prevalent either opinion of Custodes is. We’ll know that Custodes were a big success if, in a few years time, the expand the range with new kits.
The reason I think Sisters are getting more and more likely to happen though, is the impression that GW give these days, that (with the exception of marines) big new releases make them more money than tinkering with already well supported ranges.
2018/01/07 17:36:49
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
Fenris-77 wrote: I think you need to revisit what the word 'representative' means. The majority of the people who play 40K aren't crying into their Cheerios because the new release is Custodes, nor do those same people care much about the plastic sisters, or about the ratio of Xenos to Power Armor kits. The people who do care about that stuff are the hardcore fans who post a lot on sites like this one. The hardcore players are in no way at all 'representative' of the hobby in general though.
I disagree entirely. I think the fanbase is made up of extremely passionate, "hardcore" fans and I think they are without question representative of the hobby. This hobby (in my experience anyway) lends itself to a certain type of person who is, for lack of a better word, obsessive. I think this is partly due to the massive barrier to entry in terms of cost (not just models, paints, glue etc), time and learning (the rule sets have never been the most intuitive). These combined factors often mean that once someone is in 40k, they're "all in".
ImAGeek wrote: There was as much, if not more, negativity literally the other day when no models were shown at the end of the AoS Malign Portents countdown. There was much more negativity a couple of years ago when AoS was announced. There’s negativity for every release because you can’t please everyone.
In that case I may be wrong. I didn't see this particular announcement so I couldn't say. I would say that AoS and 40k have slightly different markets but there is no question they are massively interlinked. Fair point.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/07 17:38:59
2018/01/07 18:06:52
Subject: Re:Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
I can corroborate my own store manager said something similar to the OP's story about the Sisters coming up at the meeting.
But he didn't say anything about the Summer, the rest sounded close to how he told it though - just that his own was GW is aware people want it, but no more than that.
He also said it was literally the first question. And is pretty much always the first question at the Manager meetings.
2018/01/07 18:42:55
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
I think they'll need a redesign. Things have been getting more specific ever since the Chapter House case exposed just how generic and legally unprotectable most of their "IP" really was. Now we have Codex: Heretic Astartes and Codex: Astra Militarum. Aeldari? Something tells me space battle nuns using a French national symbol that is totally public domain isn't going to survive a similar review.
2018/01/07 18:46:44
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
Chamberlain wrote: I think they'll need a redesign. Things have been getting more specific ever since the Chapter House case exposed just how generic and legally unprotectable most of their "IP" really was. Now we have Codex: Heretic Astartes and Codex: Astra Militarum. Aeldari? Something tells me space battle nuns using a French national symbol that is totally public domain isn't going to survive a similar review.
Maybe they can rename Sisters of Battle to Adepta Sororitas or something similar...
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2018/01/07 18:52:39
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
I think there will need to be further changes. The sort of corset style, fleur-de-lis, bob haircuts and the like is just super generic. I think it's possible that when and if we ever do get plastic sisters they won't be compatible with the metal ones. They'll look as different as Kasrkin and Tempestus Scions do.
2018/01/07 18:56:23
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
How can you say that the backlash of the community isn't representative of said community? It makes no sense. The success of GW last year was down to a number of factors but one huge contributing factor was the "new GW" shtick through an excellent marketing and social media strategy. Not only was this marketing strong but the interaction with the community was positive. Yesterday was not.
[/spoiler] I think you need to revisit what the word 'representative' means. The majority of the people who play 40K aren't crying into their Cheerios because the new release is Custodes, nor do those same people care much about the plastic sisters, or about the ratio of Xenos to Power Armor kits. The people who do care about that stuff are the hardcore fans who post a lot on sites like this one. The hardcore players are in no way at all 'representative' of the hobby in general though.
Yeah. As shocking concept as it might be the forum users are actually MINORITY of players(or other hobbyists like movie goers, ice hockey fans etc). Most players will just buy, paint and play and not bother putting anything on forums or even read. Probably like 70%+ don't even know there's such a thing as forum for them or even if they know there are can't name one! It's just nature of beast not all are INTERESTED in forums.
Then even if you are in forum most just idle around reading. From forum users only minority are actually active posters(this forum admins probably could give good statistics on that! The ones I have been on moderating team however were always so). And when you are angry about something you make much more posts than when you are happy. Happy ones might not even post anything! They just buy their new products and play and go "cool!".
As weird as it might sound to active forum user not all are interested in being active forum user And unhappiness is more likely to be put to words. That is seen in real life everywhere. If you relied on internet you might think world is ending and everybody is miserable, in trouble, workless and doomed.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/01/07 18:56:27
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
No chance of this happening, but I’m sure at least a thousand people will be posting grumpy rants on the internet when GW inevitably releases a new kind of even more elite Space Marine instead of Sisters.
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
2018/01/07 18:58:07
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
The same sort of armour style as the Tempestus scions or some of the armour plates on the mechanicus stuff. Where the embellishments have hints of fleur-de-lis but are not obviously just French national symbols. And the type of armour plates on scions would work great for an obviously female form.
Goth chick space nuns with fleur de lis? That's probably gone for good.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/07 19:00:04
2018/01/07 18:59:32
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
Chamberlain wrote: I think there will need to be further changes. The sort of corset style, fleur-de-lis, bob haircuts and the like is just super generic. I think it's possible that when and if we ever do get plastic sisters they won't be compatible with the metal ones. They'll look as different as Kasrkin and Tempestus Scions do.
Quite possible. Though GW probably considers that acceptable casualty. There probably aren't THAT much old players with existing players who will refuse to buy them for that(some would likely upgrade to new army or still use them side by side) that if it results in better models that attract NEW players for SoB that would be major win for GW.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/01/07 19:01:05
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
MajorWesJanson wrote: We have the Geminae Superia that come with Celestine as a good baseline for what new Sisters of Battle would look like.
That's a very good point. They're sort of AoS looking. Stormcast style knee plates and the edges of their other armour plates are also in that style. The fleurs are more sytlized but mostly still there on the shoulder. Though they have a wide variety of iconography with skulls, imperial "I" symbols, aqullas and stuff. They still have the corset thing and bob haircut (both of which I actually really like).
I would really like it if they did a sisters box or two that covered the different squad types in that same style.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/07 19:11:05
2018/01/07 19:07:15
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
Chamberlain wrote: Actually, I think that might be it. The same sort of armour style as the Temestus scions or some of the armour plates on the mechanicus stuff. Where the embellishments have hints of fleur-de-lis but are not obviously just French national symbols. And the type of armour plates on scions would work great for an obviously female form.
Goth chick space nuns with fleur de lis? That's probably gone for good.
Possibly, but Celestine and her two chums are already rocking the old look. If I was In charge of the design team at GW, I’d make them more copyrightable by diversifying the range, just like Death Guard aren’t just Plague Marines, but also poxwalkers, blighthaulers, drones etc.
I’m wish listing, but I’d love to see an Ecclesiarchy army with Sisters as the core troops. Add in penitent engines, arco flagellants, crusaders, mobile cathedral like vehicles etc and you’ve got something more distinctive than just power armoured women.
2018/01/07 19:13:17
Subject: Re:Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2018/01/07 19:25:13
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
Was anybody really asking for Custodes that badly?
And yet people have been begging for Sisters since time immemorial and GW won't even release a box of basic troops.
I feel I don't really understand anything anymore.
2018/01/07 19:27:57
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
dan2026 wrote: Was anybody really asking for Custodes that badly?
And yet people have been begging for Sisters since time immemorial and GW won't even release a box of basic troops.
I feel I don't really understand anything anymore.
Apparently, yes. According to an interview with GW at open day by Chapter Master Valrak, Custodes sold really well, so GW decided to release them as a whole army.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/01/07 19:33:08
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
dan2026 wrote: Was anybody really asking for Custodes that badly?
And yet people have been begging for Sisters since time immemorial and GW won't even release a box of basic troops.
I feel I don't really understand anything anymore.
Apparently, yes. According to an interview with GW at open day by Chapter Master Valrak, Custodes sold really well, so GW decided to release them as a whole army.
But didn't the special edition resin canoness and the Celestine triple pack sell like hot cakes too?
It seems to me like everyone is shouting for SOB. Even the GW store managers.
So where are they? Instead we have Custodes.
I can understand why people are frustrated and angry.
This dance has been going on for years.
2018/01/07 19:33:37
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
Chamberlain wrote: I think they'll need a redesign. Things have been getting more specific ever since the Chapter House case exposed just how generic and legally unprotectable most of their "IP" really was. Now we have Codex: Heretic Astartes and Codex: Astra Militarum. Aeldari? Something tells me space battle nuns using a French national symbol that is totally public domain isn't going to survive a similar review.
That is stupid, and whatever idiot at GW came up with it should have been fired. If you care whether your IP is protectable or not, why abandon it without a fight? All that means is that everyone except you gets to exploit the IP you have built up over decades, while you slink off empty handed.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
2018/01/07 19:33:53
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
Much more importantly than begging, people actually bought Custodes in surprising quantities. GW cares very much about who's actually buying what, not so much about internet ranting.
He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all.
2018/01/07 19:36:58
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
dan2026 wrote: Was anybody really asking for Custodes that badly?
And yet people have been begging for Sisters since time immemorial and GW won't even release a box of basic troops.
I feel I don't really understand anything anymore.
Maybe Stormcast Eternals are selling really well, so maybe GW thinks people want gold marines in 40K now. Or maybe they need to sell all those gold cans of spray paint that are not selling so maybe GW thinks this will help them sell that stock.
Or we are back to we don't know what GW is thinking and their logic behind it.
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
2018/01/07 19:56:41
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
Fenris-77 wrote: Much more importantly than begging, people actually bought Custodes in surprising quantities. GW cares very much about who's actually buying what, not so much about internet ranting.
I think its always sales first, and then feedback second. Which is good.
People bought up the custodes in BoP, and the 30k sets have probably sold well. Gw knows Custodes will sell, and start design work for 8th.
Gw releases triumvirate with celestine, and internet freaks out. GW sees this, and starts redesign of Sisters for 8th, based on what they hear.
Seems the most likely plan/procedure, assuming they intend to release SoB.
2018/01/07 19:59:01
Subject: Plastic Sisters of Battle Release Possible in Summer
dan2026 wrote: Was anybody really asking for Custodes that badly?
And yet people have been begging for Sisters since time immemorial and GW won't even release a box of basic troops.
I feel I don't really understand anything anymore.
Maybe Stormcast Eternals are selling really well, so maybe GW thinks people want gold marines in 40K now. Or maybe they need to sell all those gold cans of spray paint that are not selling so maybe GW thinks this will help them sell that stock.
Or we are back to we don't know what GW is thinking and their logic behind it.
Except that they explicitly said that the reason is because they were surprised how well the first Custodes kit sold. No need for any other twists of logic. They made a thing. It sold well. They’re making more things like it.
And unhappiness is more likely to be put to words. That is seen in real life everywhere. If you relied on internet you might think world is ending and everybody is miserable, in trouble, workless and doomed.
~4100
~1660
