Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 General Annoyance wrote:
I've paid my bill for the food, anything extra is payment of goodwill, not something that should be expected, even if customs in America say that it is expected.

...

But yes, assume I'll keep my wallet shut while I'm there. I'll do my best to prove otherwise.

Yeah if you do that you're just going to come across as a dick to everyone.

It's not just a custom of politeness, it's simply how things work, servers do not get paid enough by the establishment, they're effectively getting paid by you.

Don't get me wrong, I think tipping for average service is stupid, but it's how it works in the US.

Consider that you're basically getting your food cheaper than you would in other countries because you are expected to pay for service separately whereas in other countries that price is built in to the cost of the food itself.

If you don't think service is worth anything, then stick to eating at fast food joints and don't whinge about servers not "earning" their tips.

And again, I say this as someone who thinks standardised tipping is a stupid idea.


Anyway, all that aside, aren't tipping customs different depending on the state? And aren't there some states that the servers have to be paid more if they didn't earn enough in tips?

having worked in a restaurant I have issues not tipping, yeah even at coffee places and convenience markets around school. I know how much those kids likely get paid, and the pains that they have to deal with.
same with take out, the restaurant I worked at had take out, those people busted their butts for those orders, usually having to maneuver around sit in orders and reminding the cooks time and time again to get to their stuff too. sure I tip them less, but rarely less than 10%
I treat coffee how someone else here mentioned bars, buck a drink, if I use a card I round up to the nearest dollar too

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:
I've paid my bill for the food, anything extra is payment of goodwill, not something that should be expected, even if customs in America say that it is expected.

...

But yes, assume I'll keep my wallet shut while I'm there. I'll do my best to prove otherwise.

Consider that you're basically getting your food cheaper than you would in other countries because you are expected to pay for service separately whereas in other countries that price is built in to the cost of the food itself.

In the UK, tipping is discretionary, but some Restaurants try to sneak it onto your bill. That I find insulting and rude. Especially when we keep finding out large chains haven't been doling said tips onto their staff, instead just chucking it in with general takings.

But, as for the US? When in Rome, as the saying goes.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:
I've paid my bill for the food, anything extra is payment of goodwill, not something that should be expected, even if customs in America say that it is expected.

...

But yes, assume I'll keep my wallet shut while I'm there. I'll do my best to prove otherwise.

Consider that you're basically getting your food cheaper than you would in other countries because you are expected to pay for service separately whereas in other countries that price is built in to the cost of the food itself.

In the UK, tipping is discretionary, but some Restaurants try to sneak it onto your bill. That I find insulting and rude. Especially when we keep finding out large chains haven't been doling said tips onto their staff, instead just chucking it in with general takings.

But, as for the US? When in Rome, as the saying goes.

Yeah, I went to one restaurant (not in the US) where I was quite happy with the service and was planning on tipping, they put a service charge on the bill that wasn't outlined in the initial pricing so I just ended up giving them the service charge when I would have been happy to give them more of a tip anyway.

Another occasion (again, not in the US) at a work gathering of 10 or so people we got okay but not exceptional service but they overcharged us and still had the balls to add a service charge. After arguing about it for a while we gave up and paid it but now word of that has probably spread from us 10 to maybe a couple of hundred people.

I do get a bit unhappy when non-US restaurants put on extra service charges, mandatory tipping is a crutch of the USA not something to be proud of IMO Folk in other countries do tip, we just only do it for exceptional service and probably not as frequently as we should.

Servers generally kiss your ass and bend over backwards here in America and that is because they are gunning for a tip.

To be honest, I found that slightly irritating. No, not every choice I make is a good one, and I know it .
Not a fan of the yes-master-attitude, I'd give more for a little sass.
I had to remind myself that I had to tip a lot, at home usually I tip about 3-5%, 10% if the service was exceptional, pizza guy gets to keep the change if it's over 1 Euro, otherwise I'll add 1 Euro.
That said, proper waitstaff (3-year-apprenticeship) don't make minimum wage (roughly 1400 Euro a month) here, more like somewhere a bit above 2000 plus tips.

Yeah, I went to one restaurant (not in the US) where I was quite happy with the service and was planning on tipping, they put a service charge on the bill that wasn't outlined in the initial pricing

I've seen that in Italy. Don't like it much. I generally don't like to have to do math to know what I have to pay for. That's also why the taxless sticker prices in the US are quite annoying because you can't avoid that anyway.

KTG17 wrote:
As a waiter all thru college, I tip closer to 20%, but what really annoys me are tip jars in places like coffee or donut shops or tip lines on credit card slips. If you are bringing me my food and refilling my drink, I am going to treat you as well as you treat me. I am not going to tip you for ringing me up at a register. I hate it.

What is next? Tipping the cashier at Walmart?

Thats my thoughts on it. MAYBE at a coffee shop but only if the coffee maker is really pleasant but even then Im not a fan for the reason you mentioned

Coffee isn't a problem. I don't and can't drink it. Brings on a migraine without fail!

For curiosuty, in the UK, many places are not supposed to take tips.

Managers will insist that staff should refuse tips, and if they find any tips they will probably throw them in the till to offset any mischange/voids.

It makes for very awkward exchanges, where you have a generous patron being insistant the server takes the tip, while the manager looms around the corner and the staff member stuttering about how they really can't accept the patron's generosity.

Surely the sensible system would be pay the staff a reasonable wage AND allow them to pocket any bonus customers might feel like gifting them?

I see where it comes from though.

Many many moons ago, my first proper job was working in a Hotel. One of our customers got food poisoning, and was in a bad way. Me being me, I called my local GP surgery, and was able to arrange a house call (1997, so rare, but not unheard of). Result of that was he was sent to hospital for urgent reasons, and the blokes wife gave me a £50 tip.

I saw little of it, because Hotel Policy was to pool the tips - theory there being the Kitchen Staff themselves didn't get paid tips at all, only the wait staff.

nareik wrote:
For curiosuty, in the UK, many places are not supposed to take tips.

I have never been anywhere in the UK that does not accept tips.

My girlfriend has been a waitress part time for several years.

Her first and most important piece of advice:

ALWAYS TIP WITH CASH

The reason being the server *will* have to pay taxes on tips which are charged on a credit/debit card.

As some have said, 15 to 20% is a fairly common range...but do not hesitate to tip more if you get excellent service (and conversely if you get terrible service).

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

I saw little of it, because Hotel Policy was to pool the tips - theory there being the Kitchen Staff themselves didn't get paid tips at all, only the wait staff.

I dislike that. If I am tipping I am tipping the waiting staff for their service, not the quality of the food. If they give me terrible food but exceptional service I will tip, if I get crap service but exceptional food they will get nothing. To me the tip is for the customer service. If a chef wants a split of the tips they should work front of house and deal with the crappy demands of customers.

Having said that I disagree with tipping in general. What makes food service exceptional to any other service provided? The team I manager, who are a customer service team, don't get tips. The food industry just seems to get away with paying people less. Make the cost upfront. I do tip, around 10% (rounding up or down to the nearest £1), but am never happy about it. It's an extra charge that is not up front. I refuse to tip if there is a mandatory service charge, and where it is optional I will try and pay it in cash. I dislike paying a tip on card, but often that is all I have. I particularly dislike it when I go out with a friend who has spent a lot of time in the US and likes to leave a 20% tip, which is huge in the UK.

If I went to the US I would tip, as it is what is done. I don't agree with it or the way the it works in the US with this making up the bulk of pay, and the fact that tipping is claimed to improve service, but then paid regardless of the service given, but it's not my country.

 TheMeanDM wrote:
My girlfriend has been a waitress part time for several years.

Her first and most important piece of advice:

ALWAYS TIP WITH CASH

The reason being the server *will* have to pay taxes on tips which are charged on a credit/debit card.

As some have said, 15 to 20% is a fairly common range...but do not hesitate to tip more if you get excellent service (and conversely if you get terrible service).

Err, shouldn't they be declaring cash tips and paying tax on them as well?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

XuQishi wrote:

Yeah, I went to one restaurant (not in the US) where I was quite happy with the service and was planning on tipping, they put a service charge on the bill that wasn't outlined in the initial pricing

I've seen that in Italy. Don't like it much. I generally don't like to have to do math to know what I have to pay for. That's also why the taxless sticker prices in the US are quite annoying because you can't avoid that anyway.

Oh don't get me started. The massive pile of pennies I ended up with after giving up trying to pay exact change when the price you see isn't the price you pay

Waiters are always paid at least minimum wage (federal minimum $7.75(?)/hr, but most states are higher) regardless of tips.

When tips are included, the number varies by state. In my state, if tips exceeding minimum are received, they receive something like 4.50/hr.

So if they receive $10 in tips in an hour, they earn $14.50 that hour. If they receive $2 in tips in an hour, they receive at least $7.75 (in this case - $5.75 + $2 in tips).

It's often repeated around the internet that waiters make $2-3 per hour, and thus are making only 80-120 a week and you're horrible for not tipping. It's not true.

Personally, I think it's a crappy system.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 TheMeanDM wrote:
My girlfriend has been a waitress part time for several years.

Her first and most important piece of advice:

ALWAYS TIP WITH CASH

The reason being the server *will* have to pay taxes on tips which are charged on a credit/debit card.

As some have said, 15 to 20% is a fairly common range...but do not hesitate to tip more if you get excellent service (and conversely if you get terrible service).

Err, shouldn't they be declaring cash tips and paying tax on them as well?

*Technically* yes, all tips regardless of how paid are supposed to be reported as taxable income.

In reality? Doesn't happen that way.

Just like double taxation. It technically doesn't happen...and yet it most definitely does.

Waiters should be paid by their employers, not depend on the kindness of strangers. If your business can't afford to pay a living wage, shut down your business and go sell insurance with your uncle.

Anyone that disagrees with me is wrong and probably kicks puppies.

fething puppy kickers.

SirWeeble wrote:
Waiters are always paid at least minimum wage (federal minimum $7.75(?)/hr, but most states are higher) regardless of tips.

When tips are included, the number varies by state. In my state, if tips exceeding minimum are received, they receive something like 4.50/hr.

So if they receive $10 in tips in an hour, they earn $14.50 that hour. If they receive $2 in tips in an hour, they receive at least $7.75 (in this case - $5.75 + $2 in tips).

It's often repeated around the internet that waiters make $2-3 per hour, and thus are making only 80-120 a week and you're horrible for not tipping. It's not true.

Personally, I think it's a crappy system.

I haven't tried to do the maths but when I look around a restaurant and see 2 or 3 people serving a bunch of folks ordering expensive food and think each of them is handing over 20% extra straight to the server, I think that must not be too bad, it just must suck working in a restaurant that's quiet or working at quiet times of day. That means 17% of the money paid by customers is going directly to the server without considering other folk required to make the business run, rent for the building, the cost of the food itself, utilities and whatnot.

If people paid me 20% of what they pay the company I work for I'd have been a rich man years ago

 TheMeanDM wrote:
My girlfriend has been a waitress part time for several years.

Her first and most important piece of advice:

ALWAYS TIP WITH CASH

The reason being the server *will* have to pay taxes on tips which are charged on a credit/debit card.

As some have said, 15 to 20% is a fairly common range...but do not hesitate to tip more if you get excellent service (and conversely if you get terrible service).

Not nice policy if you don't use cash. Don't know how it's in US but I NEVER EVER EVER have any physical cash with me unless I know in advance I need to pay something(by say buying 2nd hand models). If tipping would have to be on cash I would be flat out unable to tip as I never have any coins etc. I hate dealing with change. Just slows down payment process.

Makes very annoying part of Japan(that I otherwise love) as it's hard to avoid cash there :(

SirWeeble wrote:
Waiters are always paid at least minimum wage (federal minimum $7.75(?)/hr, but most states are higher) regardless of tips.

When tips are included, the number varies by state. In my state, if tips exceeding minimum are received, they receive something like 4.50/hr.

So if they receive $10 in tips in an hour, they earn $14.50 that hour. If they receive $2 in tips in an hour, they receive at least $7.75 (in this case - $5.75 + $2 in tips).

It's often repeated around the internet that waiters make $2-3 per hour, and thus are making only 80-120 a week and you're horrible for not tipping. It's not true.

Personally, I think it's a crappy system.

"Thus, the maximum tip credit that an employer can
currently claim under the FLSA section 3(m) is $5.12 per hour (the minimum wage of $7.25 minus the
minimum required cash wage of $2.13). Under certain circumstances, an employer may be able to
claim an additional overtime tip credit against its overtime obligations."

And in addition as to why to always pay cash tip:

Credit Cards: Where tips are charged on a credit card and the employer must pay the credit card
company a percentage on each sale, the employer may pay the employee the tip, less that percentage.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
If people paid me 20% of what they pay the company I work for I'd have been a rich man years ago

I know a guy who works at upscale places (not five star but not the kind of place typical people can afford as a mere night out either) and he makes about $300 a night. His favorite customers are the ones who order multiple bottles of wine as his place apparently doesn't do cheap wine and two bottles basically earn him $50 in tips alone.

Lucky bastard XD

I always thought that 10% was a standard appropriate tip haha! Although, as it is immediately obvious from my accent that I'm not from the USA I doubt anyone took offence.

You could always feign ignorance and not tip at all? Just make sure not to eat in the same place twice

I'm usually cashless too - but when on holiday, reckon I'd have a decent wedge on hand until I can suss out the prevalence of stuff like contactless payments - I'm also wary of additional charges from my bank, and things like my card getting lost/pinched, leaving me without access to money.

At least with cash, I can leave $300 or something in my hotel room - enough to see me through the remainder if I don't do anything expensives.

 TheMeanDM wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 TheMeanDM wrote:
My girlfriend has been a waitress part time for several years.

Her first and most important piece of advice:

ALWAYS TIP WITH CASH

The reason being the server *will* have to pay taxes on tips which are charged on a credit/debit card.

As some have said, 15 to 20% is a fairly common range...but do not hesitate to tip more if you get excellent service (and conversely if you get terrible service).

Err, shouldn't they be declaring cash tips and paying tax on them as well?

*Technically* yes, all tips regardless of how paid are supposed to be reported as taxable income.

In reality? Doesn't happen that way.

Just like double taxation. It technically doesn't happen...and yet it most definitely does.

There was a time when I might have made exceptions to help folk avoid paying tax, these days not so much (now that I'm paying a decent chunk of tax myself that I can't avoid ). As much as I hate tax, there should be legit channels for people who can't afford to pay it to get refunds on it rather than just avoiding the system entirely.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LordofHats wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
If people paid me 20% of what they pay the company I work for I'd have been a rich man years ago

I know a guy who works at upscale places (not five star but not the kind of place typical people can afford as a mere night out either) and he makes about $300 a night. His favorite customers are the ones who order multiple bottles of wine as his place apparently doesn't do cheap wine and two bottles basically earn him $50 in tips alone.

Lucky bastard XD

I don't usually eat in fancy joints, but occasionally I've thought "Damn, this person is making a huge amount of money in tips off me for what amounts to about 5 minutes of actual interaction with me"

Wow....damn...read this again and tell me that the employer isn't screwing the wait staff:

Credit Cards: Where tips are charged on a credit card and the employer must pay the credit card
company a percentage on each sale, the employer may pay the employee the tip, less that percentage

** esited for reading comprehension..lack of! **
O U C H to the employee...for not having done anything except for their job!

I think you're misreading that. The employee pays the credit card processing fee on the tip amount, not the entire purchase amount (which could, with a small tip, leave the employee with a negative tip). So in your example the employer deducts 5% of the $10 tip, giving the employee $9.50. That's a loss, sure, but not a crippling one. The actual reason to pay cash is that it's tax-free income.

 Peregrine wrote:
I think you're misreading that. The employee pays the credit card processing fee on the tip amount, not the entire purchase amount (which could, with a small tip, leave the employee with a negative tip). So in your example the employer deducts 5% of the $10 tip, giving the employee $9.50. That's a loss, sure, but not a crippling one. The actual reason to pay cash is that it's tax-free income.

Fixed it....you are right...it wasn't as bad as I was thinking. Stupid geaveyard shift making my brain mush!

tneva82 wrote:

 TheMeanDM wrote:
My girlfriend has been a waitress part time for several years.

Her first and most important piece of advice:

ALWAYS TIP WITH CASH

The reason being the server *will* have to pay taxes on tips which are charged on a credit/debit card.

As some have said, 15 to 20% is a fairly common range...but do not hesitate to tip more if you get excellent service (and conversely if you get terrible service).

Not nice policy if you don't use cash. Don't know how it's in US but I NEVER EVER EVER have any physical cash with me unless I know in advance I need to pay something(by say buying 2nd hand models). If tipping would have to be on cash I would be flat out unable to tip as I never have any coins etc. I hate dealing with change. Just slows down payment process.

Makes very annoying part of Japan(that I otherwise love) as it's hard to avoid cash there :(

Yeah, but at least you never have to tip.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:
I think you're misreading that. The employee pays the credit card processing fee on the tip amount, not the entire purchase amount (which could, with a small tip, leave the employee with a negative tip). So in your example the employer deducts 5% of the $10 tip, giving the employee $9.50. That's a loss, sure, but not a crippling one. The actual reason to pay cash is that it's tax-free income.

Also, as I understand it, giving the staff a cash tip means it goes to them directly; adding it onto the card payment means you're relying on the employer passing it to the employee.

*Technically* yes, all tips regardless of how paid are supposed to be reported as taxable income.

In reality? Doesn't happen that way.

Just like double taxation. It technically doesn't happen...and yet it most definitely does.

FYI, not claiming anything for taxes is a bad idea. I managed a bar/restaurant in the 90's and not claiming cash tips was the norm like you said. We let someone go and they reported the establishment to the IRS for this. They came down hard, fined the establishment for not enforcing tips being taxed (you are supposed to add them to the employees payroll so withholdings can be taken out) and they went after every tipped employee from the previous ten years for back taxes.

How did they do that? Pull a number out of their butt? I mean if we are talking cash nobody knows what went where when.

Which is the other problem with tipping as an American institution - it's an enormous bastion of tax evasion.