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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 17:38:04
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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It's the gaming community. Historicals are also full of Germanophlies.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 17:38:59
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Regular Dakkanaut
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That was quite quick
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 17:39:47
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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I'll give the answer I always give.
If it was changed, I don't think I'd care that much. Female Stormcast are great, and they're basically the Space Marine of AoS.
That said, I see no reason that it should change. There are very few niches that would ONLY be possible to do if Femarines were a thing. Moreover, the real problem is that other factions, and the female aspects within them, are not pushed further into the limelight, and that Space Marines occupy a very large place of the GW IP.
There is nothing* that can be achieved by Femarines that can't already be done without changing the existing canon. Therefore, I see no reason to change it. If it was changed, I don't think I'd care, aside from the general act of retconning. Nor do I have an issue with people modelling Femarines. I know it's non-canon, they know it's non-canon, it's all good.
TL;DR, I don't care, but there's very little need to change the existing canon.
*the only thing that can actually be uniquely Femarine is being an extremely genetically modified super soldier in power armour. And only if these aspects are together - any single one of these traits is not Space Marine, but as a whole, are.
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They/them
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 17:40:55
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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I consider the existing canon to be crap anyway, so... yeah.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/31 17:41:12
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 17:46:38
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Regular Dakkanaut
Right Behind You
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The only real reason to keep SM all male is because the fluff from back in the 80s and 90s changed to that they could only be male. The process of creating a SM makes about as much sense as a god hammers a person's soul into the right shape. But testosterone! But magic space organ that lets you spit acid, so I think we can stop using "science" in this argument. You can pull out things like men are physically superior or are disposable but this is set far in the future where humanity has colonized a sizable percent of the galaxy. There are probably plenty of worlds were women are more numerous than men or are superior physically to their male populations due to a number of factors because it is all make believe. The only logical argument against female SM is because at some point between RT and 40K, someone thought it was a good idea to make SM boys only.
Now I'm not saying that wanting to keep fluff the way it is is a bad thing. I think it is a product of its time though. If 40K was developed any later in the 90s then 40k might have tried to take itself way too serious, Bolters would have been 50% bigger, pouches would have doubled at least, and SM would have to be XYY "super predators". By the time DnD 3.0 came out though we were finally moving away from the idea that table top games of various stripes were boys only. If 40K was released now, we wouldn't be having this argument. I think the longer GW keeps staying the course, the worse it's going to look when you have competitors who put out female models in their lines as regular troops and heroes while GWs line remains all male. Times change, things that people didn't bat an eye at at one point, like smoking, might get more and more flak as time goes on. Now GW can keep going as is but this might have more and more negative connotations pile up on your brand. They could do a retcon, but that will upset a portion of your player base that might even cause the loss of some of your existing base. Personally I think the best option would be to, as much as I hate Primaris, start putting female Primaris models followed by female models into new kits, that aren't Orks, Nids, and Necrons. Old SM can keep all male and be a thing that still exists but shows that GW is changing with the time.
So now we get into the what about the SoB and SoS. Well personally I think the SoS are kind of stupid as all female as you take the part that makes them important and then cut their pool of recruits in half. I think the Order of Silence would work better. You also won't alienate as large a player base than the player base you would changing the SoB.. Now with SoB we need to address the fact that nuns with guns are not space knights. Also they do not compare as a faction with the sheer scope of the SM. They would be best compared to a specific chapter like DA or BA. They have different stats, abilities, and play styles. Now I personally wouldn't have problem with having boys brought into SoB, after all there is only one thing that needs to be cut to get around that legal loophole  . But the reality is you can still keep gender specific armies the problem is scale. It would be more appropriate to have a SM chapter like the DA are like "No, we're hardcore warrior knights" while the SW are like "she punched me now we're friends". I do want to make a eunuchs of battle army now though.
In the end, most make armies as a representation of them. Their big hero model represents them leading an army. Yes, you could just model that character despite the setting saying that that doesn't exist. I personally think that it's a better idea to just let that character exist as a canon choice, after moving ahead from the previous restriction. As much as people might rant about diversity, it is a valid business concern and companies like Coca-Cola showing that it can be profitable (it was a huge part of promotion and expansion strategies).
Now to see if the mods already locked the thread.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 17:47:21
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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It sort of matters a little, but it doesn't matter a lot. It would be fine. Still thought the introduction of Primaris would have been a decent time to do it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 17:54:24
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It's funny that we have this thread pop up every week but I never read "why sisters of battle need to be changed to people of battle to incorporate everyone"
There is no need for female space marines and it would be an immense retcon as every book up to this point wouldn't make any sense. If you really want female SM simply make some by adding a female head.
The absolute worse thing about the idea of FM space marines is that it would make 0 sense for the Imperium to ever make female SM. You would now be working with a smaller than average frame, with on average less aggressive mindset, On average less prone to violence and requiring more hormone therapy then already required, all to make an on average less effective soldier. For some reason, the Imperium that has 0 shortage of people is going to make the hard process of creating a super soldier even harder all for the sake of political correctness.
Not to mention that all you would need to create a female SM would be a head swap (as any female that survived the genetic augmentation would look exactly like a male except slightly smaller on average which we couldn't represent on the models because that would be sexist). So at the end of the day, you would have GW wasting time rewriting the SM entire fluff, all so you could release a new kit that would really amount to a simple head swap.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 17:55:12
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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" wouldn't make any sense"
40K makes zero sense already.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 17:59:13
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
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Asmodios wrote:It's funny that we have this thread pop up every week but I never read "why sisters of battle need to be changed to people of battle to incorporate everyone"
There is no need for female space marines and it would be an immense retcon as every book up to this point wouldn't make any sense. If you really want female SM simply make some by adding a female head.
The absolute worse thing about the idea of FM space marines is that it would make 0 sense for the Imperium to ever make female SM. You would now be working with a smaller than average frame, with on average less aggressive mindset, On average less prone to violence and requiring more hormone therapy then already required, all to make an on average less effective soldier. For some reason, the Imperium that has 0 shortage of people is going to make the hard process of creating a super soldier even harder all for the sake of political correctness.
Not to mention that all you would need to create a female SM would be a head swap (as any female that survived the genetic augmentation would look exactly like a male except slightly smaller on average which we couldn't represent on the models because that would be sexist). So at the end of the day, you would have GW wasting time rewriting the SM entire fluff, all so you could release a new kit that would really amount to a simple head swap.
Just want to take a second to point out here that nobody is complaining about adding men to the sororitas because sororitas effectively don't exist, and haven't existed for many years.
When the newest model in the range is well over a decade old, you might as well ask why you don't hear people complaining that GW doesn't release female squats.
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"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:00:25
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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So 40k that "makes zero sense" should make less sense because..... PC?
actually, reply to a single point I made. There would be absolutely no reason for the Imperium to ever make a female SM. There is no part of the process that would be easier and there would be no gain to it as women are on average worse than men at everything that a SM is designed to do. I also have to question the motives for people that push for FM SM when their only argument ever is that " GW fluff is crap".... well if its crap go play a game set in a fictional universe that isn't "crap". Automatically Appended Next Post: the_scotsman wrote:Asmodios wrote:It's funny that we have this thread pop up every week but I never read "why sisters of battle need to be changed to people of battle to incorporate everyone"
There is no need for female space marines and it would be an immense retcon as every book up to this point wouldn't make any sense. If you really want female SM simply make some by adding a female head.
The absolute worse thing about the idea of FM space marines is that it would make 0 sense for the Imperium to ever make female SM. You would now be working with a smaller than average frame, with on average less aggressive mindset, On average less prone to violence and requiring more hormone therapy then already required, all to make an on average less effective soldier. For some reason, the Imperium that has 0 shortage of people is going to make the hard process of creating a super soldier even harder all for the sake of political correctness.
Not to mention that all you would need to create a female SM would be a head swap (as any female that survived the genetic augmentation would look exactly like a male except slightly smaller on average which we couldn't represent on the models because that would be sexist). So at the end of the day, you would have GW wasting time rewriting the SM entire fluff, all so you could release a new kit that would really amount to a simple head swap.
Just want to take a second to point out here that nobody is complaining about adding men to the sororitas because sororitas effectively don't exist, and haven't existed for many years.
When the newest model in the range is well over a decade old, you might as well ask why you don't hear people complaining that GW doesn't release female squats.
So yeah you must have missed the big plastic sisters announcement..... glad to see you actively follow the hobby
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/31 18:01:29
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:02:54
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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Asmodios wrote:It's funny that we have this thread pop up every week but I never read "why sisters of battle need to be changed to people of battle to incorporate everyone"
It is because SoB are almost forgotten fringe faction that have been ignored by GW since the 2nd edition. (This thankfully seems finally to be changing.) But if there were shitton of different SOB variant factions and majority of the fluff would be about them, while only marines were some 2nd edition metals, you bet there would be demands for Brother of Battle!
The absolute worse thing about the idea of FM space marines is that it would make 0 sense for the Imperium to ever make female SM. You would now be working with a smaller than average frame, with on average less aggressive mindset, On average less prone to violence and requiring more hormone therapy then already required, all to make an on average less effective soldier. For some reason, the Imperium that has 0 shortage of people is going to make the hard process of creating a super soldier even harder all for the sake of political correctness.
But perhaps female physiology is better suited for gaining memories by eating the flesh of the fallen enemies! (Because all this is totally based on real science, am I right?)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:04:43
Subject: Re:Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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My take on this is pretty simple.
While 40K is first and foremost a tabletop miniatures game, I believe the fluff/lore, etc. has been so well established (in varying degrees of quality) that it is a genuine product in and of itself, a genuine IP. To me, an IP should be beholden to its creators and no one else. It saddens me to see an IP subject to change to either pander to social pressures or to sales demographics.
Obviously this happens all the time, but I do find it sad. An IP should be the domain of its creators regardless of what the IP is. Even if it's offensive, 'unfair', etc. An IP creator should never ever feel required to justify why they created something the way they felt like creating it. An IP should stand on its merits, and the consumers can either take it or leave it - they should never feel entitled to change or impact the IP to suit themselves or their interests.
Sadly we live in the times we live in, where companies will cater to every spare percentage point they can manage to occupy in the market, and that often means diluting a product with unnecessary changes to chase that last sale. We see it in movies, film adaptations of novels, re-makes of classic films, etc. For better or for worse I'm always more interested in the unfiltered exact IP as intended by its original creator.
If you're going to make something fantastic, or something truly awful, I want to see what you wanted to make...not what people wanted you to make.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/31 18:05:41
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:08:28
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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No.
These threads are so annoying.
Space marines are male because of gene splicing, if you want manly manly women (which would no longer be a woman) sure. But we don't need it. Sexual Dimorphism is an issue space marines have already. It would essentially be turning a female into a male. Because of all testrone and physical body changes to be similar to a primarch.
Female Space Marines already exist, they are called the Sisters of Battle or the Sisters of Silence, or hell any other faction in the imperium. The Space Marines can't be female.
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From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:09:24
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
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I want to make it clear, rereading my stuff again, that I actually wouldn't mind either way if female space marines exist. To me it's just a game... I honestly identify more with women and aliens when it comes to games anyway (I always play a female or alien).
Do we need female space marines? No...
But do we even need male space marines? Honestly, the answer is no... if someone said to you "why do you need male space marines?", when 40k was created for the first time, you would probably answer "they're cool". And why should a person who thinks female space marines are cool be told they don't need them?
Therefore, why do we need female space marines? Why do we need anything? The answer is not because women need representing, not for equality... the answer is it's cool and as humans our imagination for enjoyment is limitless and there is nothing ever wrong with thinking something is cool as long as it doesn't hurt anybody.
The real question is, do we need female space marine models right now? My answer there is no. Because there are so many other female models i want gw to make first and so many alien models I want firts because the idea of them have been cooler for longer.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/31 18:11:21
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:09:35
Subject: Re:Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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Elbows wrote:My take on this is pretty simple.
While 40K is first and foremost a tabletop miniatures game, I believe the fluff/lore, etc. has been so well established (in varying degrees of quality) that it is a genuine product in and of itself, a genuine IP. To me, an IP should be beholden to its creators and no one else. It saddens me to see an IP subject to change to either pander to social pressures or to sales demographics.
Obviously this happens all the time, but I do find it sad. An IP should be the domain of its creators regardless of what the IP is. Even if it's offensive, 'unfair', etc. An IP creator should never ever feel required to justify why they created something the way they felt like creating it. An IP should stand on its merits, and the consumers can either take it or leave it - they should never feel entitled to change or impact the IP to suit themselves or their interests.
Sadly we live in the times we live in, where companies will cater to every spare percentage point they can manage to occupy in the market, and that often means diluting a product with unnecessary changes to chase that last sale. We see it in movies, film adaptations of novels, re-makes of classic films, etc. For better or for worse I'm always more interested in the unfiltered exact IP as intended by its original creator.
If you're going to make something fantastic, or something truly awful, I want to see what you wanted to make...not what people wanted you to make.
But what if the IP creators change their minds? Are they not allowed to do that?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:12:27
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Fluff wise female marines means the tiny tiny chance of self replicating marines, some of you hate the idea of this but if your going to break the lore one way, you must consider this break as a ramification, plenty of characters in universe could make it happen, this is a good reason for the emperor to not have female marines as they were eventually to be discarded like the thunder warriors.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:14:34
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Fireknife Shas'el
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Xenomancers wrote:
Bigger and stronger and more likely to survive the process of becoming a marine. Which if I recall correctly - only 1-100 men survive the process.
Obviously you'd want to start with the specimens most likely to survive the process, but math says the survival rates have to be fairly high. One space marine makes only so many of the glands used to make the next generation. If the survival rate was 1 in 100, every chapter would collapse in a single generation. Keeping in mind that some marines will die before their glands mature enough to be harvested, and some marines will be outright destroyed without hope of recovering the glands, you're lucky just to replace losses even without geneseed failures. Yet chapters survive, recover losses and even contribute geneseed to found new chapters. Implantation rates have to be fairly high to manage this.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/31 19:48:38
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:17:52
Subject: Re:Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Regular Dakkanaut
Right Behind You
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Crimson wrote: Elbows wrote:My take on this is pretty simple.
While 40K is first and foremost a tabletop miniatures game, I believe the fluff/lore, etc. has been so well established (in varying degrees of quality) that it is a genuine product in and of itself, a genuine IP. To me, an IP should be beholden to its creators and no one else. It saddens me to see an IP subject to change to either pander to social pressures or to sales demographics.
Obviously this happens all the time, but I do find it sad. An IP should be the domain of its creators regardless of what the IP is. Even if it's offensive, 'unfair', etc. An IP creator should never ever feel required to justify why they created something the way they felt like creating it. An IP should stand on its merits, and the consumers can either take it or leave it - they should never feel entitled to change or impact the IP to suit themselves or their interests.
Sadly we live in the times we live in, where companies will cater to every spare percentage point they can manage to occupy in the market, and that often means diluting a product with unnecessary changes to chase that last sale. We see it in movies, film adaptations of novels, re-makes of classic films, etc. For better or for worse I'm always more interested in the unfiltered exact IP as intended by its original creator.
If you're going to make something fantastic, or something truly awful, I want to see what you wanted to make...not what people wanted you to make.
But what if the IP creators change their minds? Are they not allowed to do that?
Also keep in mind that GW has set up protection for themselves for fluff that gets retconed or goes out of style for their IP.
"What do you mean there are no SM? Chapter Master Andrea of the Dark Knives is right there! Oooooh, you've been listening to Bob, haven't you."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:19:58
Subject: Re:Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Regular Dakkanaut
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While I won’t be that upset if GW does decide to make female space marines, it is a pretty big fluff departure so at the least I’d like some build up to it or a well thought out explanation, funnily enough like primaris marines. Deliverance Lost back in 2011 actually sets up the concept of “better marines” if not the characters responsible for the 40k version (Cawl). I’d want something similar to be honest, but that’s just cause I’m a big fluff nerd XD. Sure the fluff makes zero sense in some areas, but it’s the fluff we have and the fluff I love. Having said that, male Sororitas would basically be the 80s space beakies reborn with religion, and that is something I can approve.
If anything maybe we’d get Fabius’ new man/woman for chaos to start with? While in the Fabius series not quite as good as a normal marine, my understanding was that the book took place mid Imperium so that’s a lot of time for improvements. You could do either primaris or marine stats but it’d be a nice and organic way of introducing them, and then perhaps the Imperium gets desperate since chaos now has doubled its recruiting pool and turns to Cawl? I’m not sure if it’s the route I’d take but it does explain it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:20:58
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
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At the end of the day I really don't care.
Frankly I play marines, I love them, but I think I could do without new models for a bit though.
But I'll ask this.
What does having female space marines add?
So GW already put out various new marine kits so that window has been missed for probably another 6 or so years, unless they come out with a unit of specifically female marines that can't mix with other units because reasons.
Then there's also the recon. Like Primaris it's gonna upset people no matter what you do. Release female space marines and the people that love the lore will be pissed that they're either retconned in or forced in. And if you retcon in female space marines GW is basically saying "don't get too attached, your army could change at any given moment"
The lore has been the way it is for what 20+ years? Why not just have a separate faction of female super soldiers made a different way then astartes? Why not push for female models in other factions? I'd love to see a female necron if they even have them, don't think they'd look too different or how about female eldar guardians, that whole unisex Armour bit seems kinda lazy huh?
Most people don't care about a chunk of plastics dangly bits.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:22:11
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Fixture of Dakka
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Why do you play it? You seem to passionately hate the game itself and if the background is that bad then why do you still play it?
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:22:58
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Crimson wrote:Asmodios wrote:It's funny that we have this thread pop up every week but I never read "why sisters of battle need to be changed to people of battle to incorporate everyone"
It is because SoB are almost forgotten fringe faction that have been ignored by GW since the 2nd edition. (This thankfully seems finally to be changing.) But if there were shitton of different SOB variant factions and majority of the fluff would be about them, while only marines were some 2nd edition metals, you bet there would be demands for Brother of Battle!
The absolute worse thing about the idea of FM space marines is that it would make 0 sense for the Imperium to ever make female SM. You would now be working with a smaller than average frame, with on average less aggressive mindset, On average less prone to violence and requiring more hormone therapy then already required, all to make an on average less effective soldier. For some reason, the Imperium that has 0 shortage of people is going to make the hard process of creating a super soldier even harder all for the sake of political correctness.
But perhaps female physiology is better suited for gaining memories by eating the flesh of the fallen enemies! (Because all this is totally based on real science, am I right?)
Once again SOB are getting an entire reboot... why are they getting it? because people love a strong female faction (yup even us guys). Do you know what we hate? poorly shoehorned diversity for the sake of diversity that makes zero sense and adds nothing.
Let's use another famous fantasy setting, you might have heard of it, its called star wars.
Previously SW fans loved their strong female characters like princess leia and the lead in rouge one but all of a sudden the whole SW community is sexist because they dont like Rey.
Do you know why they don't like Rey? it's not because of shes a woman its because she doesn't make any sense (no stating the force doesn't make sense is not a valid argument for her trash character).
People dont like her because with zero training she is the best jedi ever in existence because.... girl power? Yup shortly after ever picking up a lightsaber she wips the current evil bad  that's been training his whole life.
Much like the above example a FM SM makes no sense.... yup i know they can eat their enemies to gain memories. Regardless, of some of the whacky stuff, a SM can do it makes no sense for them to ever use FM SM.
1. Smaller
2. Would require much more hormone therapy
3. Less aggressive
4. More emotional
5. Less physically impressive (in every category from endurance to resilience to injury)
Just because its fantasy doesn't make it so that things should happen for no apparent reason other than "we need more diversity" The fact is we already have an amazingly strong female faction that makes sense in the fluff and just needs a bit of love (that they are getting because people like me said they wanted it).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:24:38
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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I wish they had made some female Custodes when the 40K version got released. There is not clear background reasons for them to not exist, and then people could have had female super-human warriors if they wanted, while not altering the Space Marines.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:25:12
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Here’s the thing, female marines no, enhanced sisters yes, why screw with something for no reason.
Another question I must ask, is why? What’s the point ? Loads of woman in 40k already, we’re about to get a reboot of sisters that will fly off the shelves as it oozes 40k and fits, so I’m curious as to what the point is of possibly damaging a brand (like marvel, Star Wars etc.) just for the sake of keeping a tiny minority of loud players silent
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:25:53
Subject: Re:Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Backspacehacker wrote:Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Backspacehacker wrote: ZebioLizard2 wrote:
It doesn’t change the fluff if Cawl invents something new with the Primaris. That’s advancing the story.
They aren’t just the most common army, Marines are Warhammer 40K.
No I quote examples with the Space Wolves and compare it to Vikings. That’s an argument.
The fact you’ve assumed I am arguing from a position of encouraging diversity means you haven’t read my post.
Quite a few people weren't happy with how the Primaris were introduced either.
Also the Space Wolves Viking is.. Not so much an argument given that your hypothesis is "They won't change because they are vikings and vikings have the appeal of Warrior Maidens so nothing would really change about the core viking character". I mean sure, they might not change in that fashion. But it's a major change fluffwise as a Space Marine faction. And sure.. We could, but why though? Aside from "Space Marines are popular, add females through them"
Yeah im still booty bothered by cawl marry sue.
ONCE AGAIN, just because you don't like a powerful character, it doesn't make them a Mary Sue. Learn your terms before throwing them all around nillywilly.
Powerful is one thing,
Going against the emperors decree for screwing with genetics
Pulling grav tech outta his rear despite lore wise it being lost since the heresy
Fixing the defects in the gene seed
Making a super suit for guliman
Sat on all this tech and was a relative literally who and no one questioned it.
able to hide this all from the inquisition for 10k years despite them being able to know if a nurgling farts a system away
OTHER THEN THAT, yeah i guess he is not a marry sue.
Yeah and is Cawl LIKED despite doing those things that are considered flaws, typical for a Mary Sue? Is he potentially going too far and Roboute realizes that, but there's nothing he can do because he's too necessary, unlike Mary Sue's where they're still respected AND liked? Doesn't that actually make him dangerous in the long run, unlike Mary Sues?
The 10k years thing is only gonna be a problem for any new character introduced that's not a Space Marine. That's not a legit problem outside your own mind.
Cawl is a super dangerous necessity, causing a total ruckus and there's nothing anyone can do about it. That's a GOOD disruption of the status quo the Imperium has, because he isn't a Mary Sue.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:26:36
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
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Also why is there never a poll attached to there's threads?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:28:23
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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I mean, already, I'm toying with the idea of "Female Marines" for my homebrew chapter. At least, the closest thing to Female Marines that the setting currently provides.
Due to *reasons* (I'm thinking some kind of geneseed defect, or simply just a need for mass recruitment, such as a recent loss, or Chapter doctrine), my Chapter recruits from the entire available stock. As in, any child of eligible Astartes induction age, male or female. Should they pass the necessary tests required (of which there is no difference between gender - all must complete the same tasks), then they will be inducted. Female aspirants are given hormone/gene therapy to make them effectively male enough for the various implants to function properly. After the various surgeries, implants and physiological changes, they're indistinguishable from their naturally born male brothers, and every member of the Chapter takes on new names upon induction, male or female.
There we are, Female Space Marines.
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They/them
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:28:39
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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I'd be down for female Marines. My personal preference is that they'd look basically the same (just a little difference in the helmetless peeps) because, you know, heavily modified post-humans probably all have the same body type, more or less.
I do agree with the others who are saying "We don't want lady Marines because Marines already have way too damn much focus on them!" I don't agree with those who are saying, effectively, they don't want cooties.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:30:37
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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JNAProductions wrote:I'd be down for female Marines. My personal preference is that they'd look basically the same (just a little difference in the helmetless peeps) because, you know, heavily modified post-humans probably all have the same body type, more or less.
I do agree with the others who are saying "We don't want lady Marines because Marines already have way too damn much focus on them!" I don't agree with those who are saying, effectively, they don't want cooties.
None of this will be an issue once Sisters get their plastic surgery.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/31 18:32:12
Subject: Why Female Space Marines are a good idea
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote: JNAProductions wrote:I'd be down for female Marines. My personal preference is that they'd look basically the same (just a little difference in the helmetless peeps) because, you know, heavily modified post-humans probably all have the same body type, more or less.
I do agree with the others who are saying "We don't want lady Marines because Marines already have way too damn much focus on them!" I don't agree with those who are saying, effectively, they don't want cooties.
None of this will be an issue once Sisters get their plastic surgery.
Eh... I don't see that.
One can HOPE that Sisters of Battle will be considered the equal to the Marines in the eyes of the fanbase and GW, but one should well-expect that to NOT be the case. GW loves their poster boys too much.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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