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It's almost like FW decided that their business model should be to sell a few high-premium master model for Chinese and Russian recaster...

Will they ever learn the lesson from music streaming and, more recently, Netflix?


And, just to clarify, I love the FW, specifically the variation of classic GW model (Land Raider Proteus, Mortis and Chaplain Dreadnought etc...)

Justyn wrote:

Goodbye FW, Hello China.

These are the real winners here. There is a significant chunk of folks who used to purchase FW products who will now purchase 3rd party or recasts. The actual good news from this is we may see more Manufacturers of good stand in models. Things like the Dreamforge Knights, or the Alternative Primarchs.

May I ask how exactly giving money to parasitic thieves benefits anyone?

Yes, maybe you will see some garbage third party stand-ins in short run. In long run? Enjoy your toxic resin shelf warmers as FW pulls the plug from the armies recasts took over, like they just did with Elysians. No rules equates 100% money spent on them down the drain, it's that simple.

And I am not defending price hike, far from it. I won't buy anything from FW at this rate, but it seems some people are so entitled they prefer to pay criminals in order to have their pay to win toy. Do tell, when you guys see a say Ferrari or Bentley, is your first instinct to smash the window in with a rock too to get in without paying?

And please don't compare that to virtual goods with zero production costs. That's just dumb. The FW minis can't materialize out of thin air on a whim, they are still luxury good that needs to be produced by people paid UK wages, utilizing designs of UK designers and mould makers, paying local taxes too. Mind enlightening us how they are supposed to compete with chinese parasite content with a fraction of the money, paying no taxes, having no safety restrictions in materials used?

Better comparison would be anything made by Apple or Sony, really overpriced stuff that does exact same things that every other laptop or phone costing fraction of the price - but, you know, people tend to not mentally gymnastic themselves into justifying counterfeits, they buy genuine thing instead of stealing it and are proud of it, go figure...

Sadly its ALL of FW that is messed up and ordering their products or NOT ordering wont change anything.

I waited 2 years to order 400$ worth of corsair kits (from 7th till part into 8th), i have emails going back and forth, over and over again asking when i can order the Kits (I wasnt ordering the heavy/bike kit without the troop kit), this was during 7th i remind you, when they had rules and were very popular.

You know what i did? after 1 and half years i told them i will go 3rd party if they dont help me out, just give me a date when to expect them, give me something, the person literally said "we dont have any plans at this time, and we cant help you" i told them i will go 3rd party in 6 months when it hits 2yrs, i gave them 1 more email and went 3rd party.

FW honestly dug a deep hole themselves, i would love to order and help them out, but they literally wouldnt help me out for over 2yrs, why should i care about their crappy resin? The 3rd party ones are just as good, i have some that are about 10-15% worst material, but w/e FW didnt care to even try, why should i?

May I ask how exactly giving money to parasitic thieves benefits anyone?

Calm your panties. I wasn't advocating recasts, simply stating they will get more business. And yes I think 3rd party manufacturers are a good thing. Options are always good. Third party options are not the same as re-casters.

And please don't compare that to virtual goods with zero production costs. That's just dumb. The FW minis can't materialize out of thin air on a whim, they are still luxury good that needs to be produced by people paid UK wages, utilizing designs of UK designers and mould makers, paying local taxes too. Mind enlightening us how they are supposed to compete with chinese parasite content with a fraction of the money, paying no taxes, having no safety restrictions in materials used?

I agree with you. However, once they decide on a price I will continue to object to them charging me 30 percent more because of where I live. Hence why I advocate 3rd party stand ins. Many of which are starting to be better than the originals they imitate. Note I didn't (again) say re-casts.

Better comparison would be anything made by Apple or Sony, really overpriced stuff that does exact same things that every other laptop or phone costing fraction of the price - but, you know, people tend to not mentally gymnastic themselves into justifying counterfeits, they buy genuine thing instead of stealing it and are proud of it, go figure...

No a better comparison would be Sony charging you 30 percent more because you live in country A over country B because they think you are too dimwitted to tell the difference.

At this point I somewhat support the purchase of recast or 3rd party products because it provides an element of competition in the market that FW has to deal with. A competitive market is good for the consumer because it requires the businesses to innovate and provide a quality product at a COMPETITIVE price. The very basis of a healthy economy is rooted in competition and is why capitalism is by far the best economic system we have. If there is no competition in the market FW can charge whatever they want and you will have to pay it if you want their product. However when there is another guy across the street who will sell you the same thing for less why on earth would you buy the more expensive option?

Having recasters and 3rd party helps the consumers by requiring FW to either up their game or lose the game. The only way for the consumer to win is to vote with their wallet by taking their business somewhere else. FW is pricing itself out of the market through subpar PR and price gouging. They will either have to react and adjust prices appropriately or suffer a loss in profit through a combination of lack of sales because of the price and the outright ire of their customers.

We see this kind of thing happen in video games like battlefront 2 and battlefield 5. In one instance they price gouged the customers (who boycotted it and had it changed) and in the other they insulted their fans and outright said "Don't like it don't buy it". This has led to these products suffering in the sales department due to a combination of a competitive market (I'll go buy another shooter instead) and horrible PR (Screw you I WONT buy it.)

GW still has all the power in this situation. If they don’t like recasters they should release new and better models for a price point where people find it easier to get those models from them over some other provider. They can do this easily. If they choose otherwise, I think Forgeworld sinks slowly for a while then get the Specialist games exit from the stage.

And please hold your hate on recasts and 3d printing. If done even ½ way right, you can’t tell anyway.

I like FW minis alot. Yes, I also happen to live in the UK.

FW itself has, imho, become outdated and is redundant. There is nothing in their line which GW couldn't do in plastic.

Example, DKoK company at ease got a relatively decent turnaround for a new mold. Grenadiers? Still waiting after a long time irrespective of concentrating more on Specialist Games. Odd.

Lack of harmonisation with GW and FW rules - don't even get me started on how shafted R&H are these days.

Subsume FW resources into GW and just can it already.

The price hike in the US is just GW plc passing the costs of that privelege, I use the term loosely, onto the US market.

Oh, and they canned R&H as a line - yeah cheers for that.

 Irbis wrote:
May I ask how exactly giving money to parasitic thieves benefits anyone?

Easy. I have a pretty decent-looking version of a model that Forge World was already charging a hefty price for, and after adding a 25% price increase to the model- I have absolutely no problem doing this. Oh, and by our countries' standard of law we can scream and call them thieves, but... most of these guys live in countries where if you tried to label that 'theft'- the authorities would laugh in your face. And probably demand you pay them for wasting their time. It is what it is.

 Irbis wrote:
Yes, maybe you will see some garbage third party stand-ins in short run. In long run? Enjoy your toxic resin shelf warmers as FW pulls the plug from the armies recasts took over, like they just did with Elysians. No rules equates 100% money spent on them down the drain, it's that simple.

Garbage? What's funny is I've got a few Forge World authentics and a few 'High Quality Proxy Variants from Overseas'. Infantry AND tanks. I sold quite a bit of it locally not long ago. Some assembled, some not. Wanna take a guess at which ones actually got sold first because of the quality of the mold? If you said, "The ones you paid the Brits hundreds for", you'd hear a buzzer and that'd be the end of this round of trivia. The answer is "garbage third-party stand-ins". Yeah, go figure- those had better mold alignment, less trash, no holes or weird knobs, none of the crap.

And 'toxic'? All resin is toxic, my friend. Some of it is REALLY bad and you'll find out who they are... but you don't just go and buy from any Shanghai recaster online. There's 'good and bad', and you always know who you're buying from through someone you know that can show you. And washing them in the sink with lots of dish soap works wonders.

Forge World apparently realizes that the recasters are out there. I don't think that's lost on them at all, because they were eagerly nuking every Facebook comment that even mentioned it in any way at all- even people who condemned it as a practice. And at a certain point, they decided that raising the prices 25% was a valid business strategy.

You worry about them erasing the rules for an army? I don't. Because once they see the drop in sales to the US, they'll hopefully recognize the mistake. And I'll gladly go back to getting their stuff if this happens because I REALLY don't like some guy at a tournament or FLGS having a hissy-fit over 'bootleg models' (I don't bring them to these sorts of things for a reason, only private club games). However, they made this decision knowing full well what us Yanks and those guys that live upside down will do- and if we had reservations about it before, we certainly don't have any now. And that can't be a thought that hasn't crossed their mind.

Because maybe- and call me a crazy, tin-foil hat kook- but I'm pretty sure that Forge World's not going to be producing nearly as much of this stuff as they did before, and they're trying to make as much as they can before they go back to producing extremely specific specialties like they did before. I could be wrong, I'd like to be, but that's the only logical reason for this kind of bold and reckless price hike.

Yal probably should drop the whole recast thing by now

considering its


on dakka.

personally this price hike is pretty lame. but eh if they do these free shipping promos more often at a much lower price then i dunno. maybe. the amount of time saved looking for flakes to jump into a bigger order might make me consider it.

A GW price hike, what a shock. More reason not to buy anything from them. Obscene prices. Mediocre rules and increasingly mediocre sculpts. Why bother?

I was saving for a Porphyrion - at 330GBP that worked out to be around $580AUD (give or take a few bucks). The AU price is $760. That's almost $200 more for no good reason!

So I thought maybe I'd grab a Spartan instead. UK price is 110GBP ($195AUD) and it's $260 for AU. Hardly "an extra beer" increase that I've seen some posters argue.

This has put me right off Forgeworld entirely.

Part of me is wondering where GW is going in the future. It's becoming increasingly clear that they want to simplify the model line, delete options and generally make units more generic. Forge world recently has purged a ton of options and seems to be trying to make as much money as it can on the remaining stock before much of it also goes the way of the dodo.

 Desubot wrote:
Yal probably should drop the whole recast thing by now

considering its


on dakka.

personally this price hike is pretty lame. but eh if they do these free shipping promos more often at a much lower price then i dunno. maybe. the amount of time saved looking for flakes to jump into a bigger order might make me consider it.

It's fine to talk about recasts, just don't link to any sites.

Personally I've found recasters to have the same quality as Forgeworld and after the beating Her Majesty's Prison Australia just took I'll be putting in another order with our Asian friends up north.

 Irbis wrote:

Justyn wrote:

Goodbye FW, Hello China.

These are the real winners here. There is a significant chunk of folks who used to purchase FW products who will now purchase 3rd party or recasts. The actual good news from this is we may see more Manufacturers of good stand in models. Things like the Dreamforge Knights, or the Alternative Primarchs.

May I ask how exactly giving money to parasitic thieves benefits anyone?

Yes, maybe you will see some garbage third party stand-ins in short run. In long run? Enjoy your toxic resin shelf warmers as FW pulls the plug from the armies recasts took over, like they just did with Elysians. No rules equates 100% money spent on them down the drain, it's that simple.

And I am not defending price hike, far from it. I won't buy anything from FW at this rate, but it seems some people are so entitled they prefer to pay criminals in order to have their pay to win toy. Do tell, when you guys see a say Ferrari or Bentley, is your first instinct to smash the window in with a rock too to get in without paying?

And please don't compare that to virtual goods with zero production costs. That's just dumb. The FW minis can't materialize out of thin air on a whim, they are still luxury good that needs to be produced by people paid UK wages, utilizing designs of UK designers and mould makers, paying local taxes too. Mind enlightening us how they are supposed to compete with chinese parasite content with a fraction of the money, paying no taxes, having no safety restrictions in materials used?

Better comparison would be anything made by Apple or Sony, really overpriced stuff that does exact same things that every other laptop or phone costing fraction of the price - but, you know, people tend to not mentally gymnastic themselves into justifying counterfeits, they buy genuine thing instead of stealing it and are proud of it, go figure...

FW buisness practice leading to rules for models being thrown out the window doesnt actually have anything to do with recasters or third party directly; they are filling a void in the invisible hand left their by forgeworld themselves, as it does. This is how the world (most places) has decided we should do our economics. Adding morality into a Lockian idea of econmoics is actually kind of absurd; their is none inherently in the system itself. Morality is (as a facade) injected into the system by indivduals. Morality in 'the hand' is already sorted out via demand.

IMO your angst is very misplaced. Third party and recasters can and will only exsist out of some discontent (out of neccisity, as via demand) for products that ultimately fall under the initial power of forgeworld. GW as a whole seems to be grasping this concept more as of late, with an increase in sales something like 40% this year if I recall correctly this year. Its obvious the fw price spikes don't coincide with the rest of what GW has been doing as a whole however. This is merely a play by a company they choose to make; the third party market is only a reaction to it. A reaction which is quite perdictable and one which im sure they are very aware.

 plark wrote:
send POLITE emails

After seeing some examples of how people wanted to complain about Grey Knights, most of these guys aren't capable of that.

I'm not sure why everyone is getting so worked up over this. I agree that the price hike sucks, but there is a simple solution. All you have to do is not buy it. If I really want to run a FW model that I can't afford I will kit bash one. It's part of the hobby anyways.

As much as I understand how annoying the price hike is, I'm honestly stunned that people are attempting to use a monopoly argument to justify using recasters. That's ridiculous.

GW do not have a monopoly.

There are countless other miniatures games out there, they are the competition to GW. If you don't like what GW does, give your money to a different company.

It's like saying Sony is running a monopoly because only they sell a PS4.

This in no way justifies supporting criminals.

I'm not entirely sure how much the recast market impacts Forgeworld personally. As someone told me when I was worried about game products I sell digitally being pirated...he said "Look, if they're going to pirate them, they were never going to buy them anyway".

I look at it the same way with Forgeworld and recasters. In many instances (the local community here has a lot of recasts I've seen) the people buying cheap copies of stuff were never going to buy the original ones from Forgeworld anyway. It's not a begrudging "Well, can't buy it for $40, I guess I'll pay $130..." etc.

Now...is that $40 perhaps something they'd spend on GW plastic instead? Maybe. I'm not advocating it, but I do think recasts don't impact Forgeworld as much as their own prices impact Forgeworld. I'd imagine if the Forgeworld prices were 'sane' (to put it nicely) you'd see a lot more legitimate stuff - assuming they stepped up their quality a bit.

Personally I'll keep buying 3rd party stuff instead, like Kromlech etc. Gives me a similar look for half the price...works for me. I don't tournament, etc. so I don't need official turrets or bits on my stuff.

Anyone yet mention that this is probably future-proofing for Brexit. As is the warehouse in the states. I'd be shocked if they didn't have a warehouse here in the actual EU, too. Once Brexit kicks in import, export and associated tariffs and costs will go up. British stuff will get more expensive and we outside the UK can look forward to paying the same import tax we have to pay on US goods, unless the product comes from an EU source.

I think they're baking in this stuff, now and leveraging six months sneaky profit off the back of it.

P.S. I'm Irish, and live in Ireland, in spite of what that flag on my profile says.

Because maybe- and call me a crazy, tin-foil hat kook- but I'm pretty sure that Forge World's not going to be producing nearly as much of this stuff as they did before, and they're trying to make as much as they can before they go back to producing extremely specific specialties like they did before. I could be wrong, I'd like to be, but that's the only logical reason for this kind of bold and reckless price hike.

I have been kinda tin-foil hatting myself, but with the amount of new specialty games that are being done in plastic I do feel like common releases will be in plastic, but upgrades and so will be done in resin. I mean, we have Horus Heresy plastic kits, Adeptus Titanicus, Blood Bowl, Necromunda, and soon Middle Earth. All these things are being released in plastic with upgrade and special units being released in resin.

 Irbis wrote:


And I am not defending price hike, far from it. I won't buy anything from FW at this rate, but it seems some people are so entitled they prefer to pay criminals in order to have their pay to win toy.

I can't agree more with this. EXALT!

Its one thing to boycott FW for price hikes. I think this is the right thing to do if you feel strongly about it as I do but you should not ever promote recasting even in a humorous way. Those people are the cancer in our hobby

 Nithaniel wrote:

 Irbis wrote:


And I am not defending price hike, far from it. I won't buy anything from FW at this rate, but it seems some people are so entitled they prefer to pay criminals in order to have their pay to win toy.

I can't agree more with this. EXALT!

Its one thing to boycott FW for price hikes. I think this is the right thing to do if you feel strongly about it as I do but you should not ever promote recasting even in a humorous way. Those people are the cancer in our hobby

How so? They only recast GW and FW.
You don't see perry and Rubicon getting recasts.
So how are they all cancer on our hobby?

Or are we labelling GW and FW (companies) as a hobby again?

ValentineGames wrote:

How so? They only recast GW and FW.
You don't see perry and Rubicon getting recasts.
So how are they all cancer on our hobby?

Or are we labelling GW and FW (companies) as a hobby again?

I've bought Warlord tanks on eBay that turned out to be recast.

ValentineGames wrote:

 Nithaniel wrote:

 Irbis wrote:


And I am not defending price hike, far from it. I won't buy anything from FW at this rate, but it seems some people are so entitled they prefer to pay criminals in order to have their pay to win toy.

I can't agree more with this. EXALT!

Its one thing to boycott FW for price hikes. I think this is the right thing to do if you feel strongly about it as I do but you should not ever promote recasting even in a humorous way. Those people are the cancer in our hobby

How so? They only recast GW and FW.
You don't see perry and Rubicon getting recasts.
So how are they all cancer on our hobby?

Or are we labelling GW and FW (companies) as a hobby again?

You haven't looked very hard then as they'll counterfeit anything (badly) they can make money on. They've even done Mantic of all things. These people don't care as long as they make money.

ValentineGames wrote:

How so? They only recast GW and FW.
You don't see perry and Rubicon getting recasts.
So how are they all cancer on our hobby?

Or are we labelling GW and FW (companies) as a hobby again?

They don't just recast FW and GW; that's just the most public and profitable. There ws a company recasting the old Rackham models ofr years - they've only recently stopped as a new firm took over Rackham; however that recasting setup is rarer in that they've now done their own model line KS - I'd wager them the exception rather than the rule.


And whilst GW is not the whole hobby it is the gateway into the hobby for a VAST majority of people. In addition don't forget money you spend on GW at a GW store or at your local independent keeps those businesses running. That means shops for gamers to buy from; tables to play on; clubs to be a part of etc.. A local store does a lot to help recruit new players and support existing ones. Furthermore the money you spend on legitimate models goes back in to pay for the jobs and training and experience of staff. Many other companies have staff who have worked in part or full for GW (eg contract sculptors). So by paying recasters who only copy work and only take profits out and who are not re-investing into any part of the industry you are leaching money right out of the system.

It only ever hurts the system as a whole.

By all means don't get FW models; heck stop getting GW models altogether; but buy into another legitimate company rather than going to recasters.

The recaster chestnut will never die. Its as old as the internet itself.

 Irbis wrote:
And I am not defending price hike, far from it. I won't buy anything from FW at this rate, but it seems some people are so entitled they prefer to pay criminals in order to have their pay to win toy. Do tell, when you guys see a say Ferrari or Bentley, is your first instinct to smash the window in with a rock too to get in without paying?

Apples to oranges, but usually the knock off product is lower quality than the original; in a lot of cases it's the opposite when it comes to FW. That doesn't excuse recasters (they're a plague in pretty much every other industry/game with dodgy, inferior, and sometimes outright dangerous, in the case of electronics and tools, knock offs stealing money from the actual creators), but it highlights a clear failing they decided to simply ignore; fixing up their issues before making this move would have worked out far better for them. This was a misstep that will, unfortunately for FW, only push more people towards these recasters.

To make it clear as well, I'm not advocating the use of recasters.

 Nithaniel wrote:
Its one thing to boycott FW for price hikes. I think this is the right thing to do if you feel strongly about it as I do but you should not ever promote recasting even in a humorous way. Those people are the cancer in our hobby

Someone using a fake imitation war toy is far from 'the cancer' in our hobby. In the grand scheme of things, there's a lot worse going on and policing where someone acquires their war toy that probably isn't going on your table is barely a blip on the radar. In fact, most of the time, that sort of Toy Policing will get you tossed out into the street, or at least laughed into the streets at a minimum.

Does it impact our hobby? I don't know, you tell me- see, we have a few neckbeards that will sell their bride on the black market, overdraft their accounts, and eat Ramen noodles for six months just to get a model no matter what the cost is. Those guys are the ones that enable this absurd price-gouging from FW and GW.

The rest of us- actual mature, reasonable, and rational adults- aren't going to drop money on something that's ludicrously overpriced. So, as one of those individuals I can tell you- Forge World wasn't getting my money for that war toy when it randomly increased in cost by 25%. Whether I spend that cash on a recast version, or on a completely different toy altogether doesn't matter- they weren't getting a sale, even if they were the only possible means to acquire the model at all.

So if you wanna play Toy Police, go right ahead.

Hell, as it's been pointed out- it would be different if Forge World was just the Bee's Knees when it came to quality models, but it isn't. I've pulled stuff out of boxes and curled my lip in disgust. 'Faster Shipping' doesn't mean a damned thing when I have to replace mis-cast, warped, and pitted model components. If Forge World had outstanding quality control, I'd shun recasters. But at this rate, Hong Kong Phoney is cranking out better stuff than FW half the time, at least.

Less ranty mode this time.

In terms of recasters, FW will only have themselves to blame if there is a notable increase in their dubious business. FW has effectively priced itself out of the international market.

I dread to think what people in Aus and NZ are paying.

Please note: I am not advocating the use of recasters but at the same time FW have no right seeking sympathy from its international fanbase.

They really did increase the price pretty high.

Doctors & Lawyers can afford those big dollar prices.

What ticks me off is they are removing stuff all the time.

I wanted to get more different legion weapons but they are gone!

The left overs got the prices jacked up.