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tneva82 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
This myth that nothing is canon just because GW retcons is hilarious. People don't understand what canon means

When we have GW themselves stating nothing in 40k is really absolute truth...no wonder people say so. That's the official GW stance. Saying otherwise means thus you claim to know better than you know the guys who write it.

That's the opposite of how it is tho. They literally pull up their writers when they catch them doing something that conflicts with the correct lore and canon. Some things get published that are incorrect. Some other things get retconned. But there is canon.

 SHUPPET wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
This myth that nothing is canon just because GW retcons is hilarious. People don't understand what canon means

When we have GW themselves stating nothing in 40k is really absolute truth...no wonder people say so. That's the official GW stance. Saying otherwise means thus you claim to know better than you know the guys who write it.

That's the opposite of how it is tho. They literally pull up their writers when they catch them doing something that conflicts with the correct lore and canon. Some things get published that are incorrect. Some other things get retconned. But there is canon.

I'm pretty sure I read a quote from ADB himself explaining that certain things in the books seem conflicting because you are reading from different characters POV's and they have a genuinely different interpretation or even memory of events.

It makes sense that over 10,000 years or more the ability to pin down a stone cold 'fact' becomes difficult.

However, I haven't read much of the BL books so I don't know how often an author describes an event as 'this is what happened' as opposed to 'this is what a certain character believes happened'.

There is a Cannon its just likely not as detailed as many fans would make/like it to be. Also when you've a huge story its very easy to forget bits even if they are set in stone in an official internal document. Esp when the story itself is set over a huge expanse and timescale such as the whole Galaxy. There's room in there for a lot of things to clash without there being a ret-con necessarily.

 SHUPPET wrote:

...They literally pull up their writers when they catch them doing something that conflicts with the correct lore and canon...

Do they really though? I always thought they had basically no quality management system when it came to preserving continuity. I mean, how else does one explain my fellow countryman, CS Goto?

My only contribution to this thread is just to remind some people that some other people can become fixated on particular things and may not be able to logically articulate their ideas. This is often through no fault of their own. I'm making an assumption here, but I think basic human understanding and compassion is important when relying to anyone. Even on as part of an anonymous forum. That's just my take on things.

 Ginjitzu wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

...They literally pull up their writers when they catch them doing something that conflicts with the correct lore and canon...

Do they really though? I always thought they had basically no quality management system when it came to preserving continuity. I mean, how else does one explain my fellow countryman, CS Goto?

They definitely do. They don't catch it all. Or they updated policies, or care more about certain releases. Not sure why it is how it is. But it is.

Onething123456 wrote:




To say that we can reasonably sure he is not from the DAOT.

But if there's no canon, we can't reasonably say anything, we can just pick whatever.

Either way, if there's no canon, you can never confirm the Emperor isn't DAOT tech, because it'd just be your opinion. If there is canon, ABD isn't in charge of it, and as with most BL writers it's just one thing being pushed forward when other writers have other ideas, and ADB's ideas are only speculation. Either way, nothing here confirms the Emperor isn't Dark Age Tech.

Not to be disrespectful, but I'd question whether the OP has some weird agenda I'm just completely missing here, or some intense hatred of the Emperor being tech idea beyond any rationality because they pretty quickly go from "there's no canon" to "there is canon since ADB can confirm things" to I don't know what else.

The OP certainly seems to have some sort of agenda regarding the Emperor, among other things. TBH, the OP has an extremely...unique...posting style that isn't conducive to any form of reasonable discussion. The constant repetition of tangentially relevant mantra-like phrases, such as the one about there being no canon in 40k is one of their idiosyncrasies. From the context those phrases are often used I'm not even sure he understands what they mean half the time. Posts about speculation and head canon in these debates are often also taken far too literally.

Interesting discussions tend to break out in spite of the first post rather than because of it.

There is canon in a sense that there is 'official body of work.' So the lore published by GW is canon. So multilaser terminators are canon and all three different versions of who saved Emperor on the Horus' ship are canon. When people talk about canon, they often really mean continuity, and there is not one clear continuity in 40K. Sure, there are some (many) things that are always in certain way, but the details are muddier. It's like Superman is always an alien from planet Krypton raised by farmers on American countryside and works as a reporter in Daily Planet while not superheroing, but details vary greatly in every retelling of the story, and you can't just pluck facts from Smallville and automatically assume they apply to DC cinematic setting.

there is canon

ADB has confirmed it

Onething123456 wrote:
My talk with ADB on Reddit shows him saying we can safely say the Emperor is not DAOT. So I do not know why people keep saying the Emperor might be DAOT tech. And I am not going to be hostile in this thread, I am just saying that the Emperor is "safely" not DAOT tech going by my talk with ADB on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/8zkgxp/just_grabbed_my_first_ever_aaron_dembskibowden/e2tpt6h/?context=3

I don't think he's from DAOT but that doesn't confirm it, any other can write more evidence saying he might be from the DAOT. No writer no matter what his credibility can decide what is possible in the universe until its been written down on paper and is backed up with other sources.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:
My talk with ADB on Reddit shows him saying we can safely say the Emperor is not DAOT. So I do not know why people keep saying the Emperor might be DAOT tech. And I am not going to be hostile in this thread, I am just saying that the Emperor is "safely" not DAOT tech going by my talk with ADB on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/8zkgxp/just_grabbed_my_first_ever_aaron_dembskibowden/e2tpt6h/?context=3

I don't think he's from DAOT but that doesn't confirm it, any other can write more evidence saying he might be from the DAOT. No writer no matter what his credibility can decide what is possible in the universe until its been written down on paper and is backed up with other sources.

We can reasonably sure, not that it is certain.



And Delvarus, nice to see you.

Are you trying to start a new religion? First church of the Emperor Ascended or something?

Because that’s cool and all. You can quote the prophets of the Emperor, create some kind of omnibus of writings that are all contained in one book, prove his supernatural origin. Get king James to sign off on it.

That’s my takeaway here. Shalom to One Thing, full of grace, peace be upon him. For he is the keeper of the quote, and master of the repetition.

EDIT: Wrong thread.

Onething123456 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:
My talk with ADB on Reddit shows him saying we can safely say the Emperor is not DAOT. So I do not know why people keep saying the Emperor might be DAOT tech. And I am not going to be hostile in this thread, I am just saying that the Emperor is "safely" not DAOT tech going by my talk with ADB on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/8zkgxp/just_grabbed_my_first_ever_aaron_dembskibowden/e2tpt6h/?context=3

I don't think he's from DAOT but that doesn't confirm it, any other can write more evidence saying he might be from the DAOT. No writer no matter what his credibility can decide what is possible in the universe until its been written down on paper and is backed up with other sources.

We can reasonably sure, not that it is certain.



And Delvarus, nice to see you.

You too, I get banned for the most stupid reasons, well most of them are stupid lol They even ban me for the same comments I've already been banned with.

The canon in 40k is best described as canon from someone’s perspective. It might be totally different from another. And it can be changed when needed just to suit GW. It’s such a shame Bligh didn’t get to finish the FW books. They are so much more reliable and interesting than the BL books.

 TheWaspinator wrote:
Honestly, the idea that the Emperor is a false god of sorts cooked up in a lab at some point seems a lot more grimdark than the idea that he really is the super-saviour of mankind from ancient times.

I dunno, it's pretty grimdark to have a god-level psyker who's been around since ancient Sumeria, and all the horrible things like the Dark Age of technology, the Iron Men, and the Heresy STILL happened despite his supposedly awesome foresight.

A god-level psyker who still wasn't as good as a "really good dad" would have been, and now exists as a fragmented batch of insane consciousnesses, who may not actually even be affected by all the sacrifices made to the half-understood pile of tech he's hooked up to.

The Emperor reminds me of the one from the Mistborn trilogy, frankly.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

 TheWaspinator wrote:
Honestly, the idea that the Emperor is a false god of sorts cooked up in a lab at some point seems a lot more grimdark than the idea that he really is the super-saviour of mankind from ancient times.

I dunno, it's pretty grimdark to have a god-level psyker who's been around since ancient Sumeria, and all the horrible things like the Dark Age of technology, the Iron Men, and the Heresy STILL happened despite his supposedly awesome foresight.

A god-level psyker who still wasn't as good as a "really good dad" would have been, and now exists as a fragmented batch of insane consciousnesses, who may not actually even be affected by all the sacrifices made to the half-understood pile of tech he's hooked up to.

The Emperor reminds me of the one from the Mistborn trilogy, frankly.

The shaman origin from 1st Edition Rogue Trader says he is not omnipotent. So of course he could not stop those things.



And the shaman origin from 1st Edition Rogue Trader says he saw no need intervene until the Age of Strife (he intervened as various figures from human history in types of trouble).





What makes 40k grimark is that there is no hope.

Is the golden throne still in a state of almost failure, and the lack of knowledge to repair it, or did that get retconned? I remember reading that around 2nd edition I think.

phillv85 wrote:
Is the golden throne still in a state of almost failure, and the lack of knowledge to repair it, or did that get retconned? I remember reading that around 2nd edition I think.

still seems to be the case

phillv85 wrote:
Is the golden throne still in a state of almost failure, and the lack of knowledge to repair it, or did that get retconned? I remember reading that around 2nd edition I think.

The Ad Mech struck a deal with the DE to repair it as it was well and truly fethed.

"The Tech-Priest custodians at work in the Emperor’s Palace uncover irrevocable failures in the mechanisms of the Golden Throne. A dozen contingency expeditions are immediately launched, including a Xanthite war procession sent through the Exhubris Portal. The Xanthites fight through Harlequin Troupes and Daemon hordes alike before reaching their intended destination. In the grave-cold oubliettes beneath Commorragh, a dark bargain is struck."

 Grimtuff wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
Is the golden throne still in a state of almost failure, and the lack of knowledge to repair it, or did that get retconned? I remember reading that around 2nd edition I think.

The Ad Mech struck a deal with the DE to repair it as it was well and truly fethed.

"The Tech-Priest custodians at work in the Emperor’s Palace uncover irrevocable failures in the mechanisms of the Golden Throne. A dozen contingency expeditions are immediately launched, including a Xanthite war procession sent through the Exhubris Portal. The Xanthites fight through Harlequin Troupes and Daemon hordes alike before reaching their intended destination. In the grave-cold oubliettes beneath Commorragh, a dark bargain is struck."

which IIRC didn't turn out to amount to anything

BrianDavion wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
Is the golden throne still in a state of almost failure, and the lack of knowledge to repair it, or did that get retconned? I remember reading that around 2nd edition I think.

The Ad Mech struck a deal with the DE to repair it as it was well and truly fethed.

"The Tech-Priest custodians at work in the Emperor’s Palace uncover irrevocable failures in the mechanisms of the Golden Throne. A dozen contingency expeditions are immediately launched, including a Xanthite war procession sent through the Exhubris Portal. The Xanthites fight through Harlequin Troupes and Daemon hordes alike before reaching their intended destination. In the grave-cold oubliettes beneath Commorragh, a dark bargain is struck."

which IIRC didn't turn out to amount to anything

Well, not yet, as that bit of fluff was only added in the 7th ed. Ad Mech book.

Nothing will probably come of it anyway and its a sneaky way to maintain the status quo and give an interesting look into an "evil" character. Vect may be a cold, heartless individual, but he would have a vested interest in keeping The Emperor (barely) alive, as turmoil in the warp sometimes causes daemonic intrusion into the webway. The death of The Emperor could potentially cause turmoil in the scale of the birth of Slaanesh, with the worst case scenario being the opening of Khaine's gate allowing Slaanesh to personally have access to Commorragh. Therefore a deal could probably be made, though at great cost to the Imperium.

"reasonably sure", "probably not" hardly the words of a confirmation on who, where, what the Emp's origins are

It is deliberate vagueness on detail to emulate and parady events and views in the real world. certain characters are based on real people. The Emperor is based on God. No one knows where he\she comes from, but we have a history full of fighting over interpretation and symanics. many religions have the same god, but fight over the main prophet. Move that forward to a fictional setting a long time in the future... nothing changes. The Emp is a religion, source unknown, details scant. Some worship him to an exteme, others believe him a false Emperor. Most couldn't care less.

It's a fictional game, based on fictional books, in a fictional universe. It's not real. Believe what you want, others will believe what they want. My God/Emperor is better than yours though

 Grimtuff wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
Is the golden throne still in a state of almost failure, and the lack of knowledge to repair it, or did that get retconned? I remember reading that around 2nd edition I think.

The Ad Mech struck a deal with the DE to repair it as it was well and truly fethed.

"The Tech-Priest custodians at work in the Emperor’s Palace uncover irrevocable failures in the mechanisms of the Golden Throne. A dozen contingency expeditions are immediately launched, including a Xanthite war procession sent through the Exhubris Portal. The Xanthites fight through Harlequin Troupes and Daemon hordes alike before reaching their intended destination. In the grave-cold oubliettes beneath Commorragh, a dark bargain is struck."

which IIRC didn't turn out to amount to anything

Well, not yet, as that bit of fluff was only added in the 7th ed. Ad Mech book.

Nothing will probably come of it anyway and its a sneaky way to maintain the status quo and give an interesting look into an "evil" character. Vect may be a cold, heartless individual, but he would have a vested interest in keeping The Emperor (barely) alive, as turmoil in the warp sometimes causes daemonic intrusion into the webway. The death of The Emperor could potentially cause turmoil in the scale of the birth of Slaanesh, with the worst case scenario being the opening of Khaine's gate allowing Slaanesh to personally have access to Commorragh. Therefore a deal could probably be made, though at great cost to the Imperium.

actually I vaguely recall a novel dealing with it, I seem to vaguely recall that the dark eldar broke free and went on a murder spree on Terra.... or something

BrianDavion wrote:
actually I vaguely recall a novel dealing with it, I seem to vaguely recall that the dark eldar broke free and went on a murder spree on Terra.... or something

Vaults of Terra: The Carrion Throne.

beast_gts wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
actually I vaguely recall a novel dealing with it, I seem to vaguely recall that the dark eldar broke free and went on a murder spree on Terra.... or something

Vaults of Terra: The Carrion Throne.

Interesting. Might have to give that a read.

I’ve said it before but it probably needs saying again.

An authors opinion does not matter until they put that opinion into print, an author can say that ultramarines are secretly chaos but until it’s actully in the fluff it’s just his opinion, that being said no, I don’t think the emperor is DAOT, while I like the Shaman origin I’d prefer they kept it unknown as it adds an air of mystery, not everything needs explaining

 Formosa wrote:
I’ve said it before but it probably needs saying again.

An authors opinion does not matter until they put that opinion into print, an author can say that ultramarines are secretly chaos but until it’s actully in the fluff it’s just his opinion, that being said no, I don’t think the emperor is DAOT, while I like the Shaman origin I’d prefer they kept it unknown as it adds an air of mystery, not everything needs explaining

ADB does not override the word of other authors, but he wrote Master of Mankind.

Who cares?
I mean, I like ADB, and I like the Emperor being a prehistoric Trojan-hittite messiah, but his words are only good until the next author weighs in.