Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2018/10/25 00:57:38
Subject: Re:So whos left for an update / rerelease
HoundsofDemos wrote: Wulfen, thunderwolves, Fenrisian Wolves, Unique flyers, different characters.
The other thing to keep in mind with combining the marine codexs is it's not just adding units. A codex has Background, Artwork, color pallets and the model showcase. A combined Marine Codex would be massive and I don't feel like spending 200 dollars for three armies I don't play.
Wulfen are vaugely unique - but Chapters like the Black Dragons won't be far off.
Thunder Wolves are just Marines rding Beast - hardly unique
Unique flyers -the stats can represent a range of flyers available to different Chapters
Characters I already said as much - pity other First Founding Chapters get sweet FA.
Much of the super unique background takes up less and less space and is often very very poor - oh look here the murder dreadnought from muder world
It would still be monstrous book especially if they add more Primaris units. I agree if way back when Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves didn't get a ton of unique units, they could have been combined in a way not dissimilar to how Black Templar were handled. But at this point they have to many unique units and models that you can't fold it all together. You either end up with incredibly confusing data sheets that have to wall off options and tactics based on key words. I agree other armies should have more options and should be expanded, that doesn't mean that Space Marines should loss options and flavor.
It's happening, mark my words. GW is bored with the old Space Elf stuff and now wants Primaris Space Elf stuff.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Other releases I can imagine is a dedicated Slaanesh book and a dedicated Emperor's Children when Fulgrim finally comes out.
Why not, I'm pretty sure Yvraine having Robutes babies would make perfect, even more stuck up super elves
I'd say GSC, SOB are the actual confirmed ones. Agents of the Imperium seems likely bundling Inquisition, Assassins, Rogue Traders and some other stuff.
Emperors Children, World Eaters, Ynarri, SM Codex 2.0 are very likely or as future potential stuff.
Ones that could get a mini codex/Supplement: Sisters of Silence, Fallen, Black Legion.
I've seen a few people around the interwebs saying they think we'll get a Slaanesh Daemons book, but there's no precedent for such a thing in 40K. Is this just wishful thinking or is there something meaty behind it?
Emperors children will get their legion dex maybee it will be along the line of the khornate daemonkin
For sure there's some precedent to suggest that an Emperor's Children book will be released, but that precedent also suggests that it won't be a 'Daemonkin' book since Death Guard wasn't and Thousand Sons wasn't.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love a Slaanesh Daemons book, but even aside from there being no precedent for such a thing it would require a massive expansion of the range from the 3 HQs (4 if want to spend $250 and nearly 700pts on a big pile of functionally useless resin), 1 Elite, 1 Troop, 3 Fast Attack (inc. Furies) and 3 Heavy Support choices (inc. Soul Grinders) currently available to Slaanesh and I just don't see that happening, unless there's something solid behind the rumours.
HoundsofDemos wrote: Wulfen, thunderwolves, Fenrisian Wolves, Unique flyers, different characters.
The other thing to keep in mind with combining the marine codexs is it's not just adding units. A codex has Background, Artwork, color pallets and the model showcase. A combined Marine Codex would be massive and I don't feel like spending 200 dollars for three armies I don't play.
Wulfen are vaugely unique - but Chapters like the Black Dragons won't be far off.
Thunder Wolves are just Marines rding Beast - hardly unique
Unique flyers -the stats can represent a range of flyers available to different Chapters
Characters I already said as much - pity other First Founding Chapters get sweet FA.
Much of the super unique background takes up less and less space and is often very very poor - oh look here the murder dreadnought from muder world
It would still be monstrous book especially if they add more Primaris units. I agree if way back when Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves didn't get a ton of unique units, they could have been combined in a way not dissimilar to how Black Templar were handled. But at this point they have to many unique units and models that you can't fold it all together. You either end up with incredibly confusing data sheets that have to wall off options and tactics based on key words. I agree other armies should have more options and should be expanded, that doesn't mean that Space Marines should loss options and flavor.
Thats not what I said or suggested. I said get rid of the bloat by adding the pretend unique units to the base by adjusting the base units which they usally deviate from by name or a couple of weapon options
No one loses anything, most Chapters are able to better represented and less BS flanderisation.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
HoundsofDemos wrote: Wulfen, thunderwolves, Fenrisian Wolves, Unique flyers, different characters.
The other thing to keep in mind with combining the marine codexs is it's not just adding units. A codex has Background, Artwork, color pallets and the model showcase. A combined Marine Codex would be massive and I don't feel like spending 200 dollars for three armies I don't play.
Wulfen are vaugely unique - but Chapters like the Black Dragons won't be far off.
Thunder Wolves are just Marines rding Beast - hardly unique
Unique flyers -the stats can represent a range of flyers available to different Chapters
Characters I already said as much - pity other First Founding Chapters get sweet FA.
Much of the super unique background takes up less and less space and is often very very poor - oh look here the murder dreadnought from muder world
It would still be monstrous book especially if they add more Primaris units. I agree if way back when Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves didn't get a ton of unique units, they could have been combined in a way not dissimilar to how Black Templar were handled. But at this point they have to many unique units and models that you can't fold it all together. You either end up with incredibly confusing data sheets that have to wall off options and tactics based on key words. I agree other armies should have more options and should be expanded, that doesn't mean that Space Marines should loss options and flavor.
Thats not what I said or suggested. I said get rid of the bloat by adding the pretend unique units to the base by adjusting the base units which they usally deviate from by name or a couple of weapon options
No one loses anything, most Chapters are able to better represented and less BS flanderisation.
They also don't have so many unique units that they can't be consolidated, especially after the recent codices started to give them more vanilla units (seriously they're only missing Centurions and TFC haha).
Let them keep 3 unique units and let it be left at that. Then each chapter gets 3 unique units and that takes care of everything.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
The last trait is literally the most broken thing I've ever seen. Automatic turn 1 charge for your warlord and any unit you wish. Holy crap. Don't know whether to laugh, cry, or or jump for joy for my automatic wins I'll be scoring with my new tyranid allies.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Something to add here, the Design Lead at GW confirmed that the rules team will be returning to the Grey Knights Codex and some of the 'earlier ones' once all the other Codexes have been released. He specifically mentioned concerns about what has happened with other Codexes since it originally came out.
That's all the perspective I have on the rules team. I imagine they had one set of ideas when they started on Codexes for 8th edition and it shifted over time. I'm hoping they fix the problems with GK before they move onto newer ideas like Codex EC.
Xenomancers wrote: The last trait is literally the most broken thing I've ever seen. Automatic turn 1 charge for your warlord and any unit you wish. Holy crap. Don't know whether to laugh, cry, or or jump for joy for my automatic wins I'll be scoring with my new tyranid allies.
Gee willikers!
I'll have to do something with that GSC kit I got from KT if something that stupid is something they got
Automatically Appended Next Post:
techsoldaten wrote: Something to add here, the Design Lead at GW confirmed that the rules team will be returning to the Grey Knights Codex and some of the 'earlier ones' once all the other Codexes have been released. He specifically mentioned concerns about what has happened with other Codexes since it originally came out.
That's all the perspective I have on the rules team. I imagine they had one set of ideas when they started on Codexes for 8th edition and it shifted over time. I'm hoping they fix the problems with GK before they move onto newer ideas like Codex EC.
Honestly I hope there are a decent amount of beta fixes for them in this CA. I don't know how I feel about waiting another year for a fix
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/25 20:06:23
Xenomancers wrote: The last trait is literally the most broken thing I've ever seen. Automatic turn 1 charge for your warlord and any unit you wish. Holy crap. Don't know whether to laugh, cry, or or jump for joy for my automatic wins I'll be scoring with my new tyranid allies.
If they still allow T1 for GSC. If that pic is real the codex is coming very, very soon.
Xenomancers wrote: The last trait is literally the most broken thing I've ever seen. Automatic turn 1 charge for your warlord and any unit you wish. Holy crap. Don't know whether to laugh, cry, or or jump for joy for my automatic wins I'll be scoring with my new tyranid allies.
Xenomancers wrote: The last trait is literally the most broken thing I've ever seen. Automatic turn 1 charge for your warlord and any unit you wish. Holy crap. Don't know whether to laugh, cry, or or jump for joy for my automatic wins I'll be scoring with my new tyranid allies.
Looks like somebody already forgot that Cult Ambush isn't going to work the same way in the codex...
Also, you were already basically guaranteed to get a preferred result with the stratagem.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/25 22:14:13
techsoldaten wrote: Something to add here, the Design Lead at GW confirmed that the rules team will be returning to the Grey Knights Codex and some of the 'earlier ones' once all the other Codexes have been released. He specifically mentioned concerns about what has happened with other Codexes since it originally came out.
That's all the perspective I have on the rules team. I imagine they had one set of ideas when they started on Codexes for 8th edition and it shifted over time. I'm hoping they fix the problems with GK before they move onto newer ideas like Codex EC.
Here's hoping that is referring to the early design philosophy for army traits only applying to Infantry, Bikes, Dreads for Imperial/Chaos marines. I also believe that early in the design process the intention was to have just infantry essentially effected by traits but over time that shifted to expand to the whole army.
A new codex to implement the change would make sense as some traits are pointless army wide - Word Bearers come to mind etc.
"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.
To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle
HoundsofDemos wrote: Wulfen, thunderwolves, Fenrisian Wolves, Unique flyers, different characters.
The other thing to keep in mind with combining the marine codexs is it's not just adding units. A codex has Background, Artwork, color pallets and the model showcase. A combined Marine Codex would be massive and I don't feel like spending 200 dollars for three armies I don't play.
Wulfen are vaugely unique - but Chapters like the Black Dragons won't be far off.
Thunder Wolves are just Marines rding Beast - hardly unique
Unique flyers -the stats can represent a range of flyers available to different Chapters
Characters I already said as much - pity other First Founding Chapters get sweet FA.
Much of the super unique background takes up less and less space and is often very very poor - oh look here the murder dreadnought from muder world
It would still be monstrous book especially if they add more Primaris units. I agree if way back when Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves didn't get a ton of unique units, they could have been combined in a way not dissimilar to how Black Templar were handled. But at this point they have to many unique units and models that you can't fold it all together. You either end up with incredibly confusing data sheets that have to wall off options and tactics based on key words. I agree other armies should have more options and should be expanded, that doesn't mean that Space Marines should loss options and flavor.
Thats not what I said or suggested. I said get rid of the bloat by adding the pretend unique units to the base by adjusting the base units which they usally deviate from by name or a couple of weapon options
No one loses anything, most Chapters are able to better represented and less BS flanderisation.
They also don't have so many unique units that they can't be consolidated, especially after the recent codices started to give them more vanilla units (seriously they're only missing Centurions and TFC haha).
Let them keep 3 unique units and let it be left at that. Then each chapter gets 3 unique units and that takes care of everything.
I'm curious what you would do with the other unique units that each chapter has if they're only allowed to keep three. Would you let them be taken by all chapters or get rid of them altogether?
Unique units I can think of from Dark Angels are Deathwing Knights, Ravenwing Black Knights, Interrogator Chaplain, Ravenwing Dark Shroud, Land Speeder Vengeance, Nephilim Jetfighter & Ravenwing Dark Talon.
Space Wolves have Wulfen, Cyberwolves, Fenrisian Wolves, Thuderwolf Cavalry, Stormfangs, Stormwolves and possibly many others that I'm not familiar with as I don't play Space Wolves.
I have no idea about Blood Angels.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/10/26 06:29:34
2018/10/26 07:00:24
Subject: Re:So whos left for an update / rerelease
HoundsofDemos wrote: Wulfen, thunderwolves, Fenrisian Wolves, Unique flyers, different characters.
The other thing to keep in mind with combining the marine codexs is it's not just adding units. A codex has Background, Artwork, color pallets and the model showcase. A combined Marine Codex would be massive and I don't feel like spending 200 dollars for three armies I don't play.
Wulfen are vaugely unique - but Chapters like the Black Dragons won't be far off.
Thunder Wolves are just Marines rding Beast - hardly unique
Unique flyers -the stats can represent a range of flyers available to different Chapters
Characters I already said as much - pity other First Founding Chapters get sweet FA.
Much of the super unique background takes up less and less space and is often very very poor - oh look here the murder dreadnought from muder world
It would still be monstrous book especially if they add more Primaris units. I agree if way back when Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves didn't get a ton of unique units, they could have been combined in a way not dissimilar to how Black Templar were handled. But at this point they have to many unique units and models that you can't fold it all together. You either end up with incredibly confusing data sheets that have to wall off options and tactics based on key words. I agree other armies should have more options and should be expanded, that doesn't mean that Space Marines should loss options and flavor.
Thats not what I said or suggested. I said get rid of the bloat by adding the pretend unique units to the base by adjusting the base units which they usally deviate from by name or a couple of weapon options
No one loses anything, most Chapters are able to better represented and less BS flanderisation.
They also don't have so many unique units that they can't be consolidated, especially after the recent codices started to give them more vanilla units (seriously they're only missing Centurions and TFC haha).
Let them keep 3 unique units and let it be left at that. Then each chapter gets 3 unique units and that takes care of everything.
I'm curious what you would do with the other unique units that each chapter has if they're only allowed to keep three. Would you let them be taken by all chapters or get rid of them altogether?
Unique units I can think of from Dark Angels are Deathwing Knights, Ravenwing Black Knights, Interrogator Chaplain, Ravenwing Dark Shroud, Land Speeder Vengeance, Nephilim Jetfighter & Ravenwing Dark Talon.
Space Wolves have Wulfen, Cyberwolves, Fenrisian Wolves, Thuderwolf Cavalry, Stormfangs, Stormwolves and possibly many others that I'm not familiar with as I don't play Space Wolves.
I have no idea about Blood Angels.
The Interrogator Chaplain isn't so unique it needs its own entry. I'd let them keep the Knights and then the special Land speeder, with the option of either the -1 aura or the plasma battery.
Blood Angels keep Death Company, and Sanguine Priests/Guard.
Wolves I wouldn't consolidate as there's a lot going on with them.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
They also don't have so many unique units that they can't be consolidated, especially after the recent codices started to give them more vanilla units (seriously they're only missing Centurions and TFC haha).
Let them keep 3 unique units and let it be left at that. Then each chapter gets 3 unique units and that takes care of everything.
I'm curious what you would do with the other unique units that each chapter has if they're only allowed to keep three. Would you let them be taken by all chapters or get rid of them altogether?
Unique units I can think of from Dark Angels are Deathwing Knights, Ravenwing Black Knights, Interrogator Chaplain, Ravenwing Dark Shroud, Land Speeder Vengeance, Nephilim Jetfighter & Ravenwing Dark Talon.
Space Wolves have Wulfen, Cyberwolves, Fenrisian Wolves, Thuderwolf Cavalry, Stormfangs, Stormwolves and possibly many others that I'm not familiar with as I don't play Space Wolves.
I have no idea about Blood Angels.
The Interrogator Chaplain isn't so unique it needs its own entry. I'd let them keep the Knights and then the special Land speeder, with the option of either the -1 aura or the plasma battery.
Blood Angels keep Death Company, and Sanguine Priests/Guard.
Wolves I wouldn't consolidate as there's a lot going on with them.
So Interrogator Chaplain wouldn't be a thing anymore? What about the Nephilim and Dark Talon? Would they be all chapters or no chapters? And Baal Predators; I forgot about those; they're unique to Blood Angels aren't they?
I suppose each of those chapter's unique characters would have to be wrapped into the Space Marine Codex or dropped altogether too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/26 10:32:20
2018/10/26 12:11:23
Subject: Re:So whos left for an update / rerelease
They also don't have so many unique units that they can't be consolidated, especially after the recent codices started to give them more vanilla units (seriously they're only missing Centurions and TFC haha).
Let them keep 3 unique units and let it be left at that. Then each chapter gets 3 unique units and that takes care of everything.
I'm curious what you would do with the other unique units that each chapter has if they're only allowed to keep three. Would you let them be taken by all chapters or get rid of them altogether?
Unique units I can think of from Dark Angels are Deathwing Knights, Ravenwing Black Knights, Interrogator Chaplain, Ravenwing Dark Shroud, Land Speeder Vengeance, Nephilim Jetfighter & Ravenwing Dark Talon.
Space Wolves have Wulfen, Cyberwolves, Fenrisian Wolves, Thuderwolf Cavalry, Stormfangs, Stormwolves and possibly many others that I'm not familiar with as I don't play Space Wolves.
I have no idea about Blood Angels.
The Interrogator Chaplain isn't so unique it needs its own entry. I'd let them keep the Knights and then the special Land speeder, with the option of either the -1 aura or the plasma battery.
Blood Angels keep Death Company, and Sanguine Priests/Guard.
Wolves I wouldn't consolidate as there's a lot going on with them.
So Interrogator Chaplain wouldn't be a thing anymore? What about the Nephilim and Dark Talon? Would they be all chapters or no chapters? And Baal Predators; I forgot about those; they're unique to Blood Angels aren't they?
I suppose each of those chapter's unique characters would have to be wrapped into the Space Marine Codex or dropped altogether too.
They would - Pretty much evey unit listed above would have analogues in one or more other Chapters - just have the occassional unique rule or weapin as a upgrade. A predator entry would have a line or two extra to cover Baal Predators - its really less had than it seems.
For those who want to play a fluffy Dark Angels/ Wolves /Blood Angels unit - they can - just self select which units they would use in an army - just as they do now - remembering that the Blood Angels epecially are described as a mostly codex compliant Chapter.
The only really unique units in a Space Wolf army that might not have equivalents in some other Chapter are Wulfen and even then Chapters like Black Dragons would be similar.
Less bloat, more options for all, less clogging of the release and Codex schedule.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
All that would happen if all SM Factions were rolled into one book is that the people complaining about separate books would be replaced by people complaining about having to pay over the odds for rules they don't want to use.
Unless the idea is that GW will sell all those rules for the same price as they currently sell C:SM, which is laughably naive.
This again leaves me with a 150 to 200 dollar book the size of a text book with a bunch of units that I wouldn't use cause I play space marines, not blood angels/dark angels/space wolves.
My guys aren't successors of those legions (Space Wolves don't have non Primaris successors) so I wouldn't take a baal pred or one of the DA speeders or planes because that wouldn't make sense. Your also really down playing what a unique model or unit is. Normal Terminators are pretty different compared to WG Terminators or Deathwing and should have different options/rules. You basically are calling for washing away a lot of flavor.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/26 15:43:20
2018/10/26 15:52:56
Subject: Re:So whos left for an update / rerelease
This again leaves me with a 150 to 200 dollar book the size of a text book with a bunch of units that I wouldn't use cause I play space marines, not blood angels/dark angels/space wolves.
My guys aren't successors of those legions (Space Wolves don't have non Primaris successors) so I wouldn't take a baal pred or one of the DA speeders or planes because that wouldn't make sense. Your also really down playing what a unique model or unit is. Normal Terminators are pretty different compared to WG Terminators or Deathwing and should have different options/rules. You basically are calling for washing away a lot of flavor.
It would be a bit bigger than the current one - probably 5 or 6 pages extra - max.
Nope I am not -
Temrinators are actually very similar - its just the odd rule or weapon option - lets not pretend otherwise - same with all the other so called "Unique" units. You keep those options - so whats the problem - it can;t be just that my units are not as super special now???
Deathwing Knights vs Assault Terminators - one extra rule, one extra Weapon Option - wow - so add as an option and job done.
The flavour remains exactly the same except now we can have some stuff on non Snowflake Chapters. Other Chapters have equivalent units they can't field - cos Snowflake. It also means that those Snowflake units have to be "Unit X+1" which helps to screw up balance.
If you are playing a fluff friendly army then you stick to your own fluff, whats the issue? If youw ant to break the fluff and use other units you can but no one forces you to pay for theupgrade to a BAal Predator.
Its not going to happen anyway as we stuck with this massive clogging of the system - design, implementation and models for the super special ones - look at the Primaris models they "had" to release to for the snowflake Chapters - nothing for the other First Founding. Other factions had to stick with a Codex and maybe a single re-release model.
GW are a bit better than before but they are still stuck in the same "we focuss on Marines so they sell more, so lets make more" cycle. Primaris gave them a bit more breathing space but otherwise we end up with an endless spew of crap like Wolfy McMurder Dreadnought and worse.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/26 15:56:58
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
They also don't have so many unique units that they can't be consolidated, especially after the recent codices started to give them more vanilla units (seriously they're only missing Centurions and TFC haha).
Let them keep 3 unique units and let it be left at that. Then each chapter gets 3 unique units and that takes care of everything.
I'm curious what you would do with the other unique units that each chapter has if they're only allowed to keep three. Would you let them be taken by all chapters or get rid of them altogether?
Unique units I can think of from Dark Angels are Deathwing Knights, Ravenwing Black Knights, Interrogator Chaplain, Ravenwing Dark Shroud, Land Speeder Vengeance, Nephilim Jetfighter & Ravenwing Dark Talon.
Space Wolves have Wulfen, Cyberwolves, Fenrisian Wolves, Thuderwolf Cavalry, Stormfangs, Stormwolves and possibly many others that I'm not familiar with as I don't play Space Wolves.
I have no idea about Blood Angels.
The Interrogator Chaplain isn't so unique it needs its own entry. I'd let them keep the Knights and then the special Land speeder, with the option of either the -1 aura or the plasma battery.
Blood Angels keep Death Company, and Sanguine Priests/Guard.
Wolves I wouldn't consolidate as there's a lot going on with them.
So Interrogator Chaplain wouldn't be a thing anymore? What about the Nephilim and Dark Talon? Would they be all chapters or no chapters? And Baal Predators; I forgot about those; they're unique to Blood Angels aren't they?
I suppose each of those chapter's unique characters would have to be wrapped into the Space Marine Codex or dropped altogether too.
If anything, the Interrogator has the base stats of what a Chaplain should. That said, either replace the generic entry with its stats, or remove it altogether. Also nobody uses the fliers and they have analogues with the standard ones, so Counts As will be fine.
Baal Predators only have the Assault Cannon as unique. So yeah either make it universal or just remove it.
Also unique characters stay. No real reason to get rid of them. Corbulo is particularly useless though so nobody would cry if he were removed.
This again leaves me with a 150 to 200 dollar book the size of a text book with a bunch of units that I wouldn't use cause I play space marines, not blood angels/dark angels/space wolves.
My guys aren't successors of those legions (Space Wolves don't have non Primaris successors) so I wouldn't take a baal pred or one of the DA speeders or planes because that wouldn't make sense. Your also really down playing what a unique model or unit is. Normal Terminators are pretty different compared to WG Terminators or Deathwing and should have different options/rules. You basically are calling for washing away a lot of flavor.
Yeah and you'd have that same exact issue if you only played Iron Hands and not the rest of the codex. Bad argument is bad.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/26 16:31:23
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2018/10/26 17:23:34
Subject: Re:So whos left for an update / rerelease
They also don't have so many unique units that they can't be consolidated, especially after the recent codices started to give them more vanilla units (seriously they're only missing Centurions and TFC haha).
Let them keep 3 unique units and let it be left at that. Then each chapter gets 3 unique units and that takes care of everything.
I'm curious what you would do with the other unique units that each chapter has if they're only allowed to keep three. Would you let them be taken by all chapters or get rid of them altogether?
Unique units I can think of from Dark Angels are Deathwing Knights, Ravenwing Black Knights, Interrogator Chaplain, Ravenwing Dark Shroud, Land Speeder Vengeance, Nephilim Jetfighter & Ravenwing Dark Talon.
Space Wolves have Wulfen, Cyberwolves, Fenrisian Wolves, Thuderwolf Cavalry, Stormfangs, Stormwolves and possibly many others that I'm not familiar with as I don't play Space Wolves.
I have no idea about Blood Angels.
The Interrogator Chaplain isn't so unique it needs its own entry. I'd let them keep the Knights and then the special Land speeder, with the option of either the -1 aura or the plasma battery.
Blood Angels keep Death Company, and Sanguine Priests/Guard.
Wolves I wouldn't consolidate as there's a lot going on with them.
So Interrogator Chaplain wouldn't be a thing anymore? What about the Nephilim and Dark Talon? Would they be all chapters or no chapters? And Baal Predators; I forgot about those; they're unique to Blood Angels aren't they?
I suppose each of those chapter's unique characters would have to be wrapped into the Space Marine Codex or dropped altogether too.
If anything, the Interrogator has the base stats of what a Chaplain should. That said, either replace the generic entry with its stats, or remove it altogether. Also nobody uses the fliers and they have analogues with the standard ones, so Counts As will be fine.
Baal Predators only have the Assault Cannon as unique. So yeah either make it universal or just remove it.
Also unique characters stay. No real reason to get rid of them. Corbulo is particularly useless though so nobody would cry if he were removed.
This again leaves me with a 150 to 200 dollar book the size of a text book with a bunch of units that I wouldn't use cause I play space marines, not blood angels/dark angels/space wolves.
My guys aren't successors of those legions (Space Wolves don't have non Primaris successors) so I wouldn't take a baal pred or one of the DA speeders or planes because that wouldn't make sense. Your also really down playing what a unique model or unit is. Normal Terminators are pretty different compared to WG Terminators or Deathwing and should have different options/rules. You basically are calling for washing away a lot of flavor.
Yeah and you'd have that same exact issue if you only played Iron Hands and not the rest of the codex. Bad argument is bad.
except Iron Hands don't have a ton of unique units, let's look at this logicaly for a moment. Let's assume, that somehow GW is going to handwave and say that all the fliers can be made using the same set of rules etc, (course well we're at that why not just get rid of ALL flier rules and have a single flier template for the IoM? I mean is a valkyrie really that differant from a stormraven? )
but ok looking at things, a combined codex space marines would need to have a few new units added.
You'd add Wulfen, Baal pattern Predators, (I suppose they might be able to just make it war gear options for a standard predator) the dark angel Dark Talon (thats a bomber, there IS no equivilant in the other astartes armories) You'd need Death Wing Knights, Ravenwing Darkshroud, Thunderwolf Cavalry, Ferensian Wolves, the Land Speeder Vengence, Bike and Terminator Command Squads. That's 10 units, or another additional TWENTY PAGES (each unit in a codex has a fluff page and a rules sheet) even before we include a page or two of fluff for each of these chapters, a page or so showing off their paint schemes and paint schemes of sucessors, and the amount of HQs they have.Space Wolves have 11 special characters, blood angels have 8, and dark angels have 5...
So assuming, like the last time a space marine chapter was rolled into a codex and all special chars where kept, that's 24 additional characters to toss in, each requring a data sheet (two in several cases but we'll be generous and assume they can squeeze them into a single page) and a fluff page.
So you're "simple codex change" likely adds OVER 70 fething PAGES TO CODEX SPACE MARINES! congrats you've turned codex space marines into a 300 page monstrocity.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Iron Hands COULD have unique units, and those pages with the other Chapter's unique characters and units are space you're still paying for. So yeah your argument is bad. Sorry.
Also 70 pages is an exaggeration. You throw in the unique characters and then 3 unique units, and that's maybe 25 pages max. Also I haven't an idea why you're including Space Wolves in this conversation. I'm talking about consolidating the Angels into the main codex.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Crimson wrote: Well, once the non-primaris units get squatted, combining the marine codices will be a breeze!
Please don't scare the children.
By "children" I mean the raving "end is nigh" weirdos.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/26 17:29:14
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Iron Hands COULD have unique units, and those pages with the other Chapter's unique characters and units are space you're still paying for. So yeah your argument is bad. Sorry.
Also 70 pages is an exaggeration. You throw in the unique characters and then 3 unique units, and that's maybe 25 pages max. Also I haven't an idea why you're including Space Wolves in this conversation. I'm talking about consolidating the Angels into the main codex.
crimson was talking the space wolves as well, the blood angels and dark angels would take less work yes, BUT, even if you do that, 3 or so unique units, and then their HQs.. yeah that's an additional 30 pages, which would proably bump codex space marines up 15 bucks, at about that stage I expect you'd going to start getting serious grumbling as it is codex space marines has gotten so big that adding anything new to it without taking away is going to be problematic (which is as much as anything why I think certain units without model options like bike Libbies, where removed) If anything I think that GW should STRONGLY consider an Imperial Fists codex, that includes the Fists, Crimson Fists and black templars. Doing that would free up a good dozen pages in codex space Marines.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/26 17:40:59
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Nah they need to be consolidated. If the Wolves didn't have as much going on I would actually want to consolidate them as well. Then the only ones left are Deathwatch and Grey Knights. Works perfectly really.
In fact I'm for removing the Renegades entry in the CSM codex and having the Vanilla codex handle via replacing of keywords.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
5300 | 
2800 | 
3600 | 
1600 | 
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
