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2018/10/30 18:17:15
Subject: Re:Anyone every experience any hauntings?
I'm really not. I'm simply swapping words around for equivalent words. Sure, the budgie example sounds absurd, but I'm just doing what the Flying Spaghetti Monster does for God. It has no lesser likelihood than ghosts or demons existing. You cannot disprove it 100% using the criteria provided to disprove ghosts/demons/etc.
Yet at the same time, you wouldn't insist that everyone should maintain an open mind about it, and dub people who looked at you funny as 'closeminded'. Because, y'know, they're suggesting you turn into a budgie in the early hours of the morning. Which is ridiculous.
I understand. And yeah I wouldn't call anyone who absolutely disbelieves this stuff "closeminded" because to believe in it you really need to experience it, imo. I totally get where they're coming from. When an absolute skeptic says "no way," we don't really have a way of debating it, so I don't. I can't prove my or my family's experiences, and you can't convince me it didn't happen the way I remember.
On the other hand, when someone calls a skeptic closeminded, it kind of makes me roll my eyes.
Ouze wrote: Isn't it weird how most paranormal stuff seemed to mostly stop happening once nearly everyone had a camera in their pocket all the time?
Must be the EM interference from electronics.
no but really ruining the fun. though obviously when people from ether sides of this takes it too far its no fun as well.
I agree. This seems to have meant to be a "let's share stories" thread. Not that I think what Ouze said did any ruining. Pretty tame and honestly got a chuckle
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/30 18:27:27
A guy I used to work with was convinced he saw a native American ghost in his backyard, though I could never quite tell when he was trying to pull my leg or when he was being serious.
Personally? No.
I mean the walls bleed on occasion but rationally there's only such much liquid volume unsealed plaster and lath can contain before you start to get some seepage.
I got told by a co worker once that he was in a car driving down a dual carriageway when they saw someone in the road, slammed on the brakes etc. When they got out there was nobody there. Apparently a car in the other lane did exactly the same thing at exactly the same time, all the occupants of both cars thought they saw someone.
Now I do believe he's sincere in that he thinks this is what he experienced but I don't believe anything paranormal happened. Could have been a trick of the light, could have been a wild animal that was fast and small enough to disappear as they were getting out of the car etc.
I myself just a few weeks ago was driving into a supermarket car park, out of the corner of my eye was aware of movement in the direction of the road so emergency stopped, but when I looked properly there was nothing there. I don't immediately leap to 'ghosts done it', I assume that the part of my brain that does the real-time processing on visual images simply reacted to a confused message and sent a warning down my nervous system.
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
You know, I did experience a paranormal activity once but I guess I surpressed it all these years. It was 1997 to be exact, and I was visiting some old relatives up north and on their extensive property lay an old, unused cabin. On previous trips we would hike to it and investigate its condition, but nothing was ever done as nature gradually wore down its paint and details. Aside from some cob webs and the desperate need of a good powerwashing, the structure was still sound .
So on this particular day I decided to hike with my dog to the cabin while the rest of the family was away. I packed a lunch consisting of one Peanut Butter-Jelly Sandwich, a 2 ounce bag of Sour Cream and Onion Lays potato chips, and a 'fun size' Snickers bar. It wasn't until later that I realized that I left the soda, a IBC Root Beer, on the kitchen counter.
It was late afternoon when we set out, and the weather was more cloudy than usual. Also the vegetation had grown a great deal since my last visit, making it harder to see ahead, and in some cases, growing over the trail. The journey took longer than expected, and upon reaching the clearing where the cabin stood, the sun had fallen behind the trees. My eyes panned the area one time before, to my surprise, my eyes fell on what appeared to be a nude, slender young women standing at the door way. My view of her was slightly abstructed by the shadows, and a moment later, the woman disappeared into the cabin and the front door shut.
I was stunned. No one informed me that the cabin was occupied, let alone by a women who seemed to enjoy prancing about in all her glory. I felt I was intruding at this point, and turned to go home, when suddenly a strange deep noise was heard through the forest. My dog whinned and took off running back the way we came, and I too considered flight, but the sky had grown even darker in those few minutes and I felt I would be lose my way, or worse, be exposed to this strange beast in the forest. I looked back at the cabin, giving thought to asking the young woman if I could stay until morning when I hoped the weather would permit and this creature was gone. The strange noise was heard again, and I ran to the door.
As my foot hit the porch in front the the door I noticed the door was ajar, as if inviting me inside, only it was dark inside except for a faint glow coeming from further back in the cabin. I knocked on the door and announced who I was and asked if I could come in, ans as I did so, the force of the knock moved the door back, and there it was
KTG17 wrote: You know, I did experience a paranormal activity once but I guess I surpressed it all these years. It was 1997 to be exact, and I was visiting some old relatives up north and on their extensive property lay an old, unused cabin. On previous trips we would hike to it and investigate its condition, but nothing was ever done as nature gradually wore down its paint and details. Aside from some cob webs and the desperate need of a good powerwashing, the structure was still sound .
So on this particular day I decided to hike with my dog to the cabin while the rest of the family was away. I packed a lunch consisting of one Peanut Butter-Jelly Sandwich, a 2 ounce bag of Sour Cream and Onion Lays potato chips, and a 'fun size' Snickers bar. It wasn't until later that I realized that I left the soda, a IBC Root Beer, on the kitchen counter.
It was late afternoon when we set out, and the weather was more cloudy than usual. Also the vegetation had grown a great deal since my last visit, making it harder to see ahead, and in some cases, growing over the trail. The journey took longer than expected, and upon reaching the clearing where the cabin stood, the sun had fallen behind the trees. My eyes panned the area one time before, to my surprise, my eyes fell on what appeared to be a nude, slender young women standing at the door way. My view of her was slightly abstructed by the shadows, and a moment later, the woman disappeared into the cabin and the front door shut.
I was stunned. No one informed me that the cabin was occupied, let alone by a women who seemed to enjoy prancing about in all her glory. I felt I was intruding at this point, and turned to go home, when suddenly a strange deep noise was heard through the forest. My dog whinned and took off running back the way we came, and I too considered flight, but the sky had grown even darker in those few minutes and I felt I would be lose my way, or worse, be exposed to this strange beast in the forest. I looked back at the cabin, giving thought to asking the young woman if I could stay until morning when I hoped the weather would permit and this creature was gone. The strange noise was heard again, and I ran to the door.
As my foot hit the porch in front the the door I noticed the door was ajar, as if inviting me inside, only it was dark inside except for a faint glow coeming from further back in the cabin. I knocked on the door and announced who I was and asked if I could come in, ans as I did so, the force of the knock moved the door back, and there it was
Omg, he did not finish the story... the ghosts must have gotten him!
The suspense is real. Great story.
Ketara wrote: What do you think that says about the reliability of empirical experience?
It means your experiences aren't the same as everyone else's.
Exactamundo! Which in turn means that empirical experiences are inherently unreliable. If you've ever been to a magic show you'll see them do wonderful things that appear to defy the laws of physics; but there's always a logical explanation behind the curtain, whatever your eyes or ears may have told you.
I understand. And yeah I wouldn't call anyone who absolutely disbelieves this stuff "closeminded" because to believe in it you really need to experience it, imo. I totally get where they're coming from. When an absolute skeptic says "no way," we don't really have a way of debating it, so I don't. I can't prove my or my family's experiences, and you can't convince me it didn't happen the way I remember.
On the other hand, when someone calls a skeptic closeminded, it kind of makes me roll my eyes....
Thing is, I've half a dozen 'paranormal experiences' from other things than sleep. I would never say that someone hadn't seen something. But as said with the magic show above, I also wouldn't jump to the automatic conclusion that 'it was ghosts/demons/spirits', any more than I would 'it was Harry Potter waving his wand'. I just accept that something happened, I don't know what, and I either don't care enough or don't have the opportunity to find out. The paranormal aspect just isn't really an option I entertain, because like our budgie example, it's so unrealistic as a possibility that it's not worth seriously considering.
I agree. This seems to have meant to be a "let's share stories" thread. Not that I think what Ouze said did any ruining. Pretty tame and honestly got a chuckle
Yeah, my intent here isn't to ruin anyone's fun. I've made my point, I'll clam up on it for now.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/30 19:16:59
Why not adopt the Fortean position of being a willing disbeliever? To me, it’s the only way to be.
After all, for hundreds of years it was a ‘fact’ that man would never fly. And for a while, it was a ‘fact’ that travelling of certain speeds would suffocate us. As Science and Technology advanced, we found differently.
So by all means. Your skepticism is valid and well deserved. But keep an open mind. Study the claim. Study the studies. Pick holes in the conclusions. Question the evidence. Offer those explanations.
Just....don’t start from the position of ‘clearly not Ghosties’ etc. That’s a fool’s position to my mind, because you’re already coming to a semi-conclusion based on your own bias.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
I was present at an undersea, unexplained mass sponge migration.
Other than that not really, although did get poltergeisted off my push bike a few times cycling past the 'haunted' pub, you really think the dead would have better things to do than annoy tired half cut people trying to navigate a badly maintained cycle path at two in the morning
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED."
So the door swung open and there was this old hag in there and I was like "Hey were did that hot chic go?" and she was like, "Oh that was me, I just cast a spell to look like that so I could entice you to come in. I haven't had any company in awhile and would love to talk for awhile."
I was totally like 'dude this blows' and honestly a little freaked out. This old lady made herself look like a model and I had no idea how. And then this overwhelming smell of urine came over me and I almost barfed and asked "What is that smell?" even know I kinda knew what it was.
"Oh, that's from my little Mamooshka." And with that, out from one of the end tables came out this three legged dog with no hair and one eye, pissing on the carpet as he walked. I was like 'wtf' and the lady said, "Don't mind him. The renters said no pets so I have to keep him inside all the time." Renters? I couldn't believe Uncle Frank even rented this place out to begin with, let alone her.
I started trying to come up with a plan. There was no way I was staying overnight in the cabin with this old lady and this weird-ass dog pissing all over the place. I asked if I could use her phone but she didn't have one. I then asked about the strange sounds coming from the forest outside, and what she said gave me goosebumps...
"Oh, you don't want anything to do with that. Better to wait till morning before you head back home." My heart sank.
The next thing I knew she pulled a game of Yatzee and set it on the table, then went over to the fireplace and poked around the couple of logs that were barely burning, letting out an old lady fart
Thing is, I've half a dozen 'paranormal experiences' from other things than sleep. I would never say that someone hadn't seen something. But as said with the magic show above, I also wouldn't jump to the automatic conclusion that 'it was ghosts/demons/spirits', any more than I would 'it was Harry Potter waving his wand'. I just accept that something happened, I don't know what, and I either don't care enough or don't have the opportunity to find out. The paranormal aspect just isn't really an option I entertain, because like our budgie example, it's so unrealistic as a possibility that it's not worth seriously considering.
Wait, now you're telling me I DON'T turn into a budgie? Make up your mind!
I myself just a few weeks ago was driving into a supermarket car park, out of the corner of my eye was aware of movement in the direction of the road so emergency stopped, but when I looked properly there was nothing there. I don't immediately leap to 'ghosts done it', I assume that the part of my brain that does the real-time processing on visual images simply reacted to a confused message and sent a warning down my nervous system.
I'm not sure why you would think that was a ghost anyway. People see things out of the corner of their eyes all the time, I've never considered it to be a supernatural happening, or used it as a ghost story anecdote.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/30 19:37:06
Jacksmiles wrote: I'm not sure why you would think that was a ghost anyway. People see things out of the corner of their eyes all the time, I've never considered it to be a supernatural happening, or used it as a ghost story anecdote.
Specifically you're right. To be honest I'd forgotten about it completely and it just came to mind when I was recalling the older story I was told at work, I didn't really lay it out properly.
The broader point is that the human brain takes in a lot of sensory information and tries its best to make sense of things and map out conclusions based on known premises. When people post Victorian images with ghostly reflected faces etc it's just our brains identifying a vaguely facial pattern and filling in the blanks of how that face might be there.
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
When my family lived in the UK my mom and sister insisted the house we rented was haunted by a woman in white (like the most generic English ghost ever). My dad and I never noticed anything.
Other than that, nope. I do enjoy a good ghost story though. Damn shame most horror films/tv shows are garbage. Books are better but incredibly predictable.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: After all, for hundreds of years it was a ‘fact’ that man would never fly. And for a while, it was a ‘fact’ that travelling of certain speeds would suffocate us. As Science and Technology advanced, we found differently.
This is an annoying misconception and I wish it would die. Flight was an engineering problem. Anyone who ever saw a bird knew it was possible to fly, it was just a question of coming up with the right design. It all came down to boring things like "we don't have an engine with a high enough power to weight ratio yet", not a revolution in science.
Ghosts and such are not comparable. Evidence is flimsy at best, no viable mechanism or explanation has even been proposed, and the claims contradict known science. Proof would be a massive revolution in multiple fields, overturning a ton of evidence and well-established theories. The two situations are just not comparable at all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/30 20:57:24
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Ghosts and such are not comparable. Evidence is flimsy at best,
Perhaps, on a case by case basis it could be argued that the evidence is flimsy. But the sheer volume of it, dating back to a time when the idea that it was somehow down to suggestion is impossible because cultures were geographically isolated and communication was impossible, intimates that there is something to it. Now, I don't personally believe it is the unquiet spirits of the dead, but I do believe there are phenomena that are real that have been historically attributed to them.
no viable mechanism or explanation has even been proposed,
What, you mean it's unexplained?
and the claims contradict known science. Proof would be a massive revolution in multiple fields, overturning a ton of evidence and well-established theories.
Well, I'm sure that makes it impossible because such a thing has never occurred and couldn't possibly happen in the future.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
So the door swung open and there was this old hag in there and I was like "Hey were did that hot chic go?" and she was like, "Oh that was me, I just cast a spell to look like that so I could entice you to come in. I haven't had any company in awhile and would love to talk for awhile."
I was totally like 'dude this blows' and honestly a little freaked out. This old lady made herself look like a model and I had no idea how. And then this overwhelming smell of urine came over me and I almost barfed and asked "What is that smell?" even know I kinda knew what it was.
"Oh, that's from my little Mamooshka." And with that, out from one of the end tables came out this three legged dog with no hair and one eye, pissing on the carpet as he walked. I was like 'wtf' and the lady said, "Don't mind him. The renters said no pets so I have to keep him inside all the time." Renters? I couldn't believe Uncle Frank even rented this place out to begin with, let alone her.
I started trying to come up with a plan. There was no way I was staying overnight in the cabin with this old lady and this weird-ass dog pissing all over the place. I asked if I could use her phone but she didn't have one. I then asked about the strange sounds coming from the forest outside, and what she said gave me goosebumps...
"Oh, you don't want anything to do with that. Better to wait till morning before you head back home." My heart sank.
The next thing I knew she pulled a game of Yatzee and set it on the table, then went over to the fireplace and poked around the couple of logs that were barely burning, letting out an old lady fart
You played Yahtzee with a witch? Did you learn any magic from her? You'd probably have to do some really gross things or sell your soul or something like that, but being able to cast spells is totally worth it imho.
Ghosts and such are not comparable. Evidence is flimsy at best,
Perhaps, on a case by case basis it could be argued that the evidence is flimsy. But the sheer volume of it, dating back to a time when the idea that it was somehow down to suggestion is impossible because cultures were geographically isolated and communication was impossible, intimates that there is something to it. Now, I don't personally believe it is the unquiet spirits of the dead, but I do believe there are phenomena that are real that have been historically attributed to them.
Thing is, the stories and reported phenomena (and the explanations for them) vary wildly from culture to culture, suggesting that it is linked to Human minds rather than anything supernatural. Why would the supernatural adhere to Human cultural boundaries after all?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/30 22:31:02
I'd suggest it doesn't, but the explanations imposed on things that aren't understood do.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ouze wrote: Isn't it weird how most paranormal stuff seemed to mostly stop happening once nearly everyone had a camera in their pocket all the time?
You might want to poke around on YouTube a bit; there's plenty of photos and videos of various ghostly oddities.
Which isn't to say that they are, indeed, ghosts; just that there are videos of what appear to be ghosts. Could be faked (I assume many are), could be tricks of the lighting (also quite likely) or trick of the mind interpreting what is there (many are pretty darn vague, after all). Or maybe...
But there's not 100% proof of any particular explanation for most of them.
Compounding the issue is that ANY evidence that is gathered is dismissed out of hand immediately. It doesn't matter what corroborates the footage, how it could tie in to actual history of the location, OR any attempts to recreate the moment in an effort to debunk it with no success at all of making it happen in the same way. All that matters is that it "can't" exist, therefore the evidence is disregarded.
Same thing goes about life on other planets. We've found microbes on other celestial objects, which is indeed indicative of life coming from planets other than our own. But most "experts" on any sort of forum you find will immediately denounce the thought that life could exist. Press them with that evidence, and then it's INTELLIGENT life can't exist elsewhere.
I’ll finish part 3 and the exciting conclusion to my story tomorrow, but in the meantime all those who think ghosts don’t exist go ahead and watch this:
I bet you won’t because you’re a bunch of cowards.
Just Tony wrote: Compounding the issue is that ANY evidence that is gathered is dismissed out of hand immediately. It doesn't matter what corroborates the footage, how it could tie in to actual history of the location, OR any attempts to recreate the moment in an effort to debunk it with no success at all of making it happen in the same way. All that matters is that it "can't" exist, therefore the evidence is disregarded.
Same thing goes about life on other planets. We've found microbes on other celestial objects, which is indeed indicative of life coming from planets other than our own. But most "experts" on any sort of forum you find will immediately denounce the thought that life could exist. Press them with that evidence, and then it's INTELLIGENT life can't exist elsewhere.
I find BOTH skeptics close minded.
Pfft. I'm not close minded at all. Show me peer reviewed proof of the afterlife / ghosts, and I'll believe in ghosts. Until then I gotta say "seems unlikely".
So far as there being life somewhere else in the universe, it just seems statistically likely it must have happened somewhere. Even if thing A had to happen for event B to unfold, and the chances of each sequence of events happening is a million to one, there is just so much space then statistically it probably happened a few times - 1×10^24 stars? I'll take those odds.
Conversely, though, I just think the universe is so vast that the chances of that happening, that there is intelligent life anywhere near us, at the same time as us, also falls pretty firmly into the "seems unlikely" camp. But I moved the goalposts a little to "intelligent life: - I think we'll surely find some kind of proof of extraterrestrial life at some point, single cell organisms or alien fungus or something.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/31 05:29:22
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
As for original topic 2 of my workmates(well 1 is now ex) swear the workplace is haunted. In particular the sauna they swear gives them creeps. Me? I'm having good laugh at them. Only odd thing I sense is the "crack-crack" sounds occasionally but that just means cooler has ice formed in it and requires pushing button so it starts to melt.
Azreal13 wrote: Perhaps, on a case by case basis it could be argued that the evidence is flimsy. But the sheer volume of it, dating back to a time when the idea that it was somehow down to suggestion is impossible because cultures were geographically isolated and communication was impossible, intimates that there is something to it. Now, I don't personally believe it is the unquiet spirits of the dead, but I do believe there are phenomena that are real that have been historically attributed to them.
Garbage doesn't become credible evidence by sheer volume alone. In fact the sheer volume of "evidence" rather strongly argues against supernatural nonsense by removing the "it's a rare event, too rare to capture better evidence" excuse. If supernatural events exist and are as common as the "evidence" attempts to argue then why don't we have any better evidence to go with it? Why do supernatural entities/events invariably disappear under controlled conditions where they could be proved beyond any reasonable doubt?
What, you mean it's unexplained?
Yes, it's unexplained, and that's a huge problem. We knew flight was possible, and we had some theories for how it might work. Even if the explanation wasn't 100% complete we had enough of a foundation to begin the engineering work and fill in the rest. But with ghosts and such we know nothing. We don't have even the beginnings of a credible explanation, we're supposed to just take them as true and hope that someday maybe somehow someone will try to explain what's going on.
Well, I'm sure that makes it impossible because such a thing has never occurred and couldn't possibly happen in the future.
It really hasn't. I can't think of anything in the history of science that has overturned such a huge volume of existing and well-proven knowledge like the existence of ghosts would.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Ghosts and such are not comparable. Evidence is flimsy at best,
Perhaps, on a case by case basis it could be argued that the evidence is flimsy. But the sheer volume of it, dating back to a time when the idea that it was somehow down to suggestion is impossible because cultures were geographically isolated and communication was impossible, intimates that there is something to it. Now, I don't personally believe it is the unquiet spirits of the dead, but I do believe there are phenomena that are real that have been historically attributed to them.
Can I have some examples of these cultures and their supernatural beliefs please? The number of societies that are so isolated as to have no contact with anyone else has been vanishingly small as far back as we can ascertain. Far, far further back than we have any idea whatsoever about their cultural perceptions of supernature.
Most cultures have some ideas about worlds beyond the temporal and physical, but most of the similarities we see in belief in prehistoric populations are similarities between interpretations postulated by modern onlookers and may be entirely unrelated to those exhibited by the cultures under study. Once we get into historic periods, it actually takes rather a long time before people want to write about spirits or other supernatural actors that have any interaction with humans outside of structured cultic actions and the entity never seems to be seen or interacted with physically in these contexts*. In text, at least, people just have transactional relationships with deities who live in specific buildings that cross over an awful lot with political and economic institutions.
People should stop making blanket statements about ghosts having been part of human experience since humans experienced. This is utterly baseless.
*In a sense they are physically present and active, but in the same way that people will say a God is present in a church.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/31 09:11:34
Why not adopt the Fortean position of being a willing disbeliever? To me, it’s the only way to be.
After all, for hundreds of years it was a ‘fact’ that man would never fly. And for a while, it was a ‘fact’ that travelling of certain speeds would suffocate us. As Science and Technology advanced, we found differently.
So by all means. Your skepticism is valid and well deserved. But keep an open mind. Study the claim. Study the studies. Pick holes in the conclusions. Question the evidence. Offer those explanations.
Just....don’t start from the position of ‘clearly not Ghosties’ etc. That’s a fool’s position to my mind, because you’re already coming to a semi-conclusion based on your own bias.
Or, alternatively, it's the only reasonable position until someone provides some verifiable, repeatable, experimental evidence that such things are even actually possible. Which they've not. Ever. They've claimed to, thousands of times, and it has never once panned out when subjected to even the most basic levels of scientific rigour. What has been proven, scientifically, are all the myriad ways our brains can fool us or be fooled into believing and perceiving just about anything. Continuing to adopt a position of "willing disbelief" in such circumstances is just bizarre.
When have they failed to prove the claim enough times? How long must people continue to treat the idea seriously in the absence of any new evidence? At what point is it OK to just sigh wearily and walk away, or have a bit of fun laughing at the wonky-brains, like we do with flat-earthers or "The Queen Is A Lizard Person" types? I'd say the point has long, long passed. It passed decades ago when the LSD-addled hippy-dippy generation of academics spent years trying and failing to prove the existence of the paranormal. It is, quite firmly, dead. An ex-parrot of an hypothesis.
The phrase "keep an open mind, but not so open your brain falls out" applies.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
A Fortean is sceptical. But is open to being proven wrong - or at least exhausting all possible rational explanations.
The main trouble with the paranormal are those trying to make a buck out of. There's a special level of contempt I hold for 'spirit mediums' and other 'psychics'.
I mean, if telepathy is possible, surely those able would be committed in asylums, unable to shut out all those voices? If that ropey thinking was right, we'd have no way to tell, because those blessed/cursed would be utterly hatstand.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Fascinating subject. I would like to ask of you guys that belive in the paranormal, or at least in the plausibility of it: Where does that belif come from? I'm assuming that most of you are not religious or part of a religion that belives in ghosts, so I am curious as to why you give credence to the possibility of ghosts.
You see, in my mind, belif in the paranormal is not something you can belive on its own. There has to be a coresponding set of belifs with it.
I for example am a Catholic, and belive among other things in the existence of demons. The reason I believe in something as flimsy as that, despite never experiencing anything or being able to prove it, is because I find the core of my religion to stand on very firm and proovable ground, and the rest is just something that I have to accept because a very trustworthy person said it.
Some of you don't have that "firm ground". So how does your belif that you are a reasonable person make peace with your belif in ghosts?
Genuine question, not trying to sound mean in case it turns out like that.
It really hasn't. I can't think of anything in the history of science that has overturned such a huge volume of existing and well-proven knowledge like the existence of ghosts would.
Kind of feel the need to emphasise this. Since scientific method has been a thing busily establishing the underlying mechanics of the world around us; there's been some pretty revolutionary stuff, sure. Everything from the theory of gravity to the mind boggling nature of sub-atomic particles. But working on the basis of demons/ghosts being real would require us to overturn literally every single branch of established fact; from basic human biology to the fundamental laws of energy and particle physics. The ramifications are literally endless. I don't think there's ever been a single scientific paradigm overturned that had a fraction of that sort of impact.
That's without going into the consequences for the softer subjects (philosophy, history, etc). Something like that would be the first step to proving organised religion right, we'd have to re-evaluate what events happened in the past due to the involvement of supernatural aspects, etcetc.
Seriously. Something like that would absolutely turn about six hundred years of human progress and enlightenment on its head; 40K chaos style. Be careful what you wish for, as the horror story saying goes.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/10/31 11:14:31
