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 Togusa wrote:
My salamanders landraider assault force that runs three full squads of termies out of crusaders has a 54% win ratio over 61 games since August of 2017.

Colour me impressed dude, I’m a huge fan of LRs and Termies and run them as often as I can, and can say from experience that’s a solid achievement.

Teach me?


The way I look at it, Land Raiders can come down further. They have roughly double the durability of a Rhino, don’t have double the transport capacity; but have a move and shoot rule. I don’t think it’d be crazy to make a LR chassis double the cost of a Rhino chassis - 140pts, or maybe 150. Add weapons on and you get 247pts for a Phobos, 3pts shy of its traditional 250pts. It’s then a solid and reasonably expensive upgrade for a Lascannon Predator.

Back when LRs were AV14 all round they were a hard counter to the Str7 meta, and really hard for armies like Tau to deal with. Even then, at 250pts, they were considered a waste of points because some armies could just one-shot them. Now, they can still be one-shotted and aren’t immune to any weapons. Even at 250pts they still aren’t going to be a strong meta choice.

Regardless of their points value, they need a rule like Steel Behemoth to stop them being shut down by a grot. Even then, they don’t work as transports for close combat units, but that’s more of a core ruleset issue.

I'm kinda stuck with the LR in my Death Guard army since they lack any real AT or heavy non- FW Transport, and the Plague Party Bus is always kinda fun to run in friendly games. Saving 60 pts is certainly welcomed.

Well, surround a Repulsor so that he can not go out somewhere would be very difficult. Not all army's could do it, and I wouldn't be so stupid going nearby an massive unit. It depends on your movement.

Could happen? Yes, but the probability is low. Not the same in case of a LR. LR is much more easy to block.


Agree with Kombatwombat, for his cost LR needs a rule to stop them being locked. I prefer a Stormraven with his - 1 to hit.

Wonder if part of the solution is a universal strat, open to all, to allow any single unit to fall back, then shoot or charge - noting if it could previously do one or the other it can no do both

leopard wrote:
Wonder if part of the solution is a universal strat, open to all, to allow any single unit to fall back, then shoot or charge - noting if it could previously do one or the other it can no do both

Just play Dark Angels

We already have this strat, for shooting anyway. Intractable.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Stux wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
For Dakkanaught netlisters who only play the Primo Best Units™ they won't be good until someone else wins with them consistently.

I still see Repulsors everywhere doing a lot of great work on every table I see them on. Turns out just bringing tools to kill a Knight doesn't help when you're facing 2 mobile Repulsors alongside a bunch of Dreads.

Repulsors have one massive advantage over LRs though: FLY keyword means they can fall back and shoot.

All Repulsors need is a few points off and they'll be a decent unit. You can't say the same about LRs because they just get locked down too easily and even at 300pts that's not really acceptable.

Do note that the Repulsor can also be lock down in combat easily. Just have a horde of models surround it and it is dead. Given its large size and only 10" movement, it is almost not posdible to pull it out of 1" from enemy models should they have put a second layers of models on the side of the vehicle.

Just make sure there is a high feature within 10 inches and land on top of it. Fly Keyword - is key.

Togusa wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
People need to understand that anything can win games in the right scenario. Anything.

A list with 3 land raiders and terminators would lose automatically to most meta lists. It's just not good. But if you're facing equally bad lists, then you'll come out on top. It's hard to predict what will happen when one horribly inefficient thing fights another horribly inefficient thing. Especially if you throw BRB missions into the mix. Half the time it'll be maelstrom, and those games are decided more by luck of the draw than anything else.

No doubt. I don't play competitive at all, in fact I would say this: People also need to understand that calling something that isn't "meta" "a bad list' is highly offensive to people, such as myself who choose not to interact with the competitive WAAC scene and build lists based on fluff, what just looks cool, or what fits a specif theme. It just get's old hearing this kind of garbage over and over, as if meta play is the only way to play and anyone who dares to build lists that aren't optimized, or make use of units the larger tournament community hates due to them not being min/maxxed are somehow inferior warhammer players who shouldn't be in the hobby.

I'm interested in working on a terminator/Land raider & gravis/repulsor assault list. It would really depend on the points after CA.

We have to wait till CA arrives for being sure.

Well, a Dark Angels LRC with a 5 man DW knights squad went from 560pts to 451pts (this is without MM for Crusader, which I will probably add now since it's cheaper)

 Togusa wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
People need to understand that anything can win games in the right scenario. Anything.

A list with 3 land raiders and terminators would lose automatically to most meta lists. It's just not good. But if you're facing equally bad lists, then you'll come out on top. It's hard to predict what will happen when one horribly inefficient thing fights another horribly inefficient thing. Especially if you throw BRB missions into the mix. Half the time it'll be maelstrom, and those games are decided more by luck of the draw than anything else.

No doubt. I don't play competitive at all, in fact I would say this: People also need to understand that calling something that isn't "meta" "a bad list' is highly offensive to people, such as myself who choose not to interact with the competitive WAAC scene and build lists based on fluff, what just looks cool, or what fits a specif theme. It just get's old hearing this kind of garbage over and over, as if meta play is the only way to play and anyone who dares to build lists that aren't optimized, or make use of units the larger tournament community hates due to them not being min/maxxed are somehow inferior warhammer players who shouldn't be in the hobby.

That's a personal problem. If a unit isn't competitive then it is bad within the context of competition. I don't know why you would ever assume that when tournament players are discussing tactics and theory-crafting for competitive play they should automatically take into consideration beerhammer players getting offended.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with being a casual player. But if your criteria for putting a unit in your list begins and ends with "is it fluffy" it begs the question of what you expect when you enter a discussion about the consequences of points changes, game design, balance etc. It's like walking in on two military officers discussing military theory, and then trying to weigh in with "well you know I was playing Call of Duty the other day, and in my opinion..."

- - - -

In any case, LR shooting is still weak for its price and so how good it is depends on what it can transport. To that end... Codex marines are universally pretty terrible in assault and chaos has cheaper and more reliable delivery methods. So I'm weary.

Alex_85 wrote:
Well, surround a Repulsor so that he can not go out somewhere would be very difficult. Not all army's could do it, and I wouldn't be so stupid going nearby an massive unit. It depends on your movement.

Could happen? Yes, but the probability is low. Not the same in case of a LR. LR is much more easy to block.


Agree with Kombatwombat, for his cost LR needs a rule to stop them being locked. I prefer a Stormraven with his - 1 to hit.

Of course LR is much easier to get neutralized. In that account, it is trash compared to Repulsor. However what I want to point out is that, stay cautious even you take the Repulsor, do not think that it is safe from being locked even it can fly. It is difficult but it COULD happen if you allow a horde of 30 plague bearers with a tree nearby or 30 Hormagants draw near you.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Alex_85 wrote:
Well, surround a Repulsor so that he can not go out somewhere would be very difficult. Not all army's could do it, and I wouldn't be so stupid going nearby an massive unit. It depends on your movement.

Could happen? Yes, but the probability is low. Not the same in case of a LR. LR is much more easy to block.


Agree with Kombatwombat, for his cost LR needs a rule to stop them being locked. I prefer a Stormraven with his - 1 to hit.

Of course LR is much easier to get neutralized. In that account, it is trash compared to Repulsor. However what I want to point out is that, stay cautious even you take the Repulsor, do not think that it is safe from being locked even it can fly. It is difficult but it COULD happen if you allow a horde of 30 plague bearers with a tree nearby or 30 Hormagants draw near you.

You are absolutely right. 40K is more easy to play now than editions before, but it is not autoplay. We habe to bee in caution arround the table and think what your rival can do. Yes, it could happen.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Stux wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
For Dakkanaught netlisters who only play the Primo Best Units™ they won't be good until someone else wins with them consistently.

I still see Repulsors everywhere doing a lot of great work on every table I see them on. Turns out just bringing tools to kill a Knight doesn't help when you're facing 2 mobile Repulsors alongside a bunch of Dreads.

Repulsors have one massive advantage over LRs though: FLY keyword means they can fall back and shoot.

All Repulsors need is a few points off and they'll be a decent unit. You can't say the same about LRs because they just get locked down too easily and even at 300pts that's not really acceptable.

Do note that the Repulsor can also be lock down in combat easily. Just have a horde of models surround it and it is dead. Given its large size and only 10" movement, it is almost not posdible to pull it out of 1" from enemy models should they have put a second layers of models on the side of the vehicle.

Just make sure there is a high feature within 10 inches and land on top of it. Fly Keyword - is key.

Yes, that is one very good suggestion. I would adopt it whenever I take Repulsor again.