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 Grimtuff wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Dante and Azrael are also very old, along with mephiston, ezekiel, tyco, corbulo... Everyone of those models I've listed are from 2nd edition.

Outside of marines, the pheonix warriors have already been stated.

Yea many of the OG factions have old character models still in use. Two of the current Ork warboss models (those that aren't Grukk), Mad Dok and the main man Ghazzy himself are all 19-22 years old. There's a few that need an update.

Orks first got their 3rd ed update in 1999, so- maths...

Whilst I agree WRT to Grotsnik. Everything else- nope. How can you dislike anything about the Brian Nelson Orks?

Actually, the oldest of those models is from 1998.

Nope. Orks got their image update initially with their codex release in June 1999 with all of the 2nd ed models that weren't vehicles being scrapped. A few Gorkamorka ones made the transition but you'll note the marked difference between the 2nd and 3rd ed Ork aesthetic.

Now, onto the HQs. Of those currently available the oldest is from that aforementioned June of 1999, so just coming on 20 years. Nothing in their current range of HQs is from before then (the only pre-3rd model they have still on sale is Dregmek Blitzkart from Gorkamorka repurposed as a generic Deffkopta. So he's not a HQ).

So going through their HQs on the GW site-
Big mek in mega armour- From somewhere circa 2012ish with their 6th ed update, so roughly 7 years
Grukk Facerippa- same.
Ghazkhull- came out with the Armageddon 3 campaign in 2000, so approaching 19 years
Big mek with SAG- this current plastic one came out in roughly 2012 (7 years)
Badrukk- came out with their 4th ed book in 2008 (11 years)
Snikrot- same
Zagstrukk- same
Warboss with big choppa- released in June 1999 (just shy of 20 years)
Grotsnik- came out at the same time as Ghazkhull (roughly 19 years)
Weirdboy- released with the 4th ed book (2008).

Yea - plenty of old HQ models that desperately need an update as you’ve listed (that was my point).

You sure none of those are 1998? Am I thinking of Nazdreg? Was he 1998? Ghazzy was pre Armageddon campaign right?

the_scotsman wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
This just reinforces how much I hate "burst" releases. I really do miss the days when GW would release random kits for most armies sporadically over the course of the year. The excitement was much higher when you had zero clue if you're get a new kit for your army next month. It kept everybody engaged and everyone had a decent expectation of something coming out.

For instance, with the new Chaos line revision, it's neat and all, but then there is the very sobering fact that come May (or roundabouts) it'll be done and players will realize that's it for another 3-4 years if not more. That sucks, and is a super gakky way of keeping an audience. Obviously GW's method is working because they're successful and financially in a good spot, but as a player who doesn't collect nine armies, or buy a new one every four months...it's a real let down.

I've been playing since early 4th, and I do not remember this time of which you speak when GW randomly released models for a bunch of different factions.

Releases have always come in waves, usually alongside codexes. I remember when they were a LOT lamer than they are now. I remember the early 7th slog of "everyone gets a big heavy infantry unit. Everyone gets an HQ. Everyone gets a big giant thing." I remember codexes getting released and knowing I wouldn't be seeing half the models in the codex for a yaer or more.

Unless you're talking about SPECIFICALLY space marines, who have always gotten random new shinies waved in front of their playerbase's faces, or something like early 2nd-3rd edition, I don't remember this time, and I really don't want to go back to it.

It was not in 2000's but in 1990's where getting new characters etc was common. Benefit of not beign fixated on plastic meant making new models was cheap so they could pump out variety easily. That's how we got tons of different imperial guard commisars for example with various weapons. Now we are stuck with one with change of pistols. Thank plastics for that.

so no it's not "always come in waves".

They really don't though. You've said this in other threads and both myself and other have called you out on it as you never say why you want them to be updated beyond them being "old" (they're not.)

Let's be reasonable and say only Ghazkhull and Grotsnik need a new model. The others are absolutely typical for a mini's production run. 10+ years is nothing in the lifespan on a mini being on the shelves. Hell, the Rhino is older than the old one (1988-2001 and 2001 to today) when that was retired. Do we hear people calling that "old"?

 Elbows wrote:
This just reinforces how much I hate "burst" releases. I really do miss the days when GW would release random kits for most armies sporadically over the course of the year. The excitement was much higher when you had zero clue if you're get a new kit for your army next month. It kept everybody engaged and everyone had a decent expectation of something coming out.

For instance, with the new Chaos line revision, it's neat and all, but then there is the very sobering fact that come May (or roundabouts) it'll be done and players will realize that's it for another 3-4 years if not more. That sucks, and is a super gakky way of keeping an audience. Obviously GW's method is working because they're successful and financially in a good spot, but as a player who doesn't collect nine armies, or buy a new one every four months...it's a real let down.

I'm of a similar mindset. There is nothing worse than waiting on a release for your army, getting something no one asked for & knowing it will be another 2-4 years before you see another release. In the case of IG regiments, more like 10-20 years. It doesn't incentivize those consumers to stay engaged. GW has seen massive growth in recent years, so I assume whatever they are doing is in their best interests. I applaud them for taking risks by supporting armies like GSC & SoB. I just wish there was a way they could meet the needs of everyone in the community. For example: Perhaps instead of releasing 7-8+ primaris lieutenants in a year, they could release 4-5 & then add 4 new characters for different armies like Dark Eldar, Orks, Tau, Eldar etc.

 Grimtuff wrote:
They really don't though. You've said this in other threads and both myself and other have called you out on it as you never say why you want them to be updated beyond them being "old" (they're not.)

19 or 20 years isn’t old? Got it. And it’s only you and one other ‘calling me out’ and I’ve said why I want them replacing. If you need me to reiterate;

Ghazzy is pathetically small given his supposed gravitas, though he makes an OK Meganob model I suppose. The other Warboss sculpts lack the detail and general aesthetic of newer models.

They need replacing because they look awful, I’ve told you this. Just because you disagree it doesn’t make your stance any more valid than mine. Keep your old, gak looking Orks (do you even play them?), I’d like new ones thanks.

Let's be reasonable and say only Ghazkhull and Grotsnik need a new model. The others are absolutely typical for a mini's production run. 10+ years is nothing in the lifespan on a mini being on the shelves. Hell, the Rhino is older than the old one (1988-2001 and 2001 to today) when that was retired. Do we hear people calling that "old"?

Their age is only a factor when they look like gak, which they do. And it’s not ‘reasonable’ to expect Ork players who want a Big Choppa boss to have to use a model that’s 20 years old and metal. Same with the Deffkopta. The Weirdboy is garbage failcast too. This isn’t forgetting that our basic Boys are old as the hills (and thus look poor) and 2 of our most popular units (Tankbustaz & Kommandos) are failcast too.

E - format, quote.
E2 - Tankbustas not Storm boys

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Anyone else think the sneak peeks of the new primaris vehicle look like it could be reminiscent of the old "deoderant speeder"?

Link?

What I thought was a new image on BOLS was more a reminder of an older leak, which is this thing:https://spikeybits.com/2018/09/primaris-getting-transport-new-gw-rumor-engine.html

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
They really don't though. You've said this in other threads and both myself and other have called you out on it as you never say why you want them to be updated beyond them being "old" (they're not.)

19 or 20 years isn’t old? Got it. And it’s only you and one other ‘calling me out’ and I’ve said why I want them replacing. If you need me to reiterate;

Ghazzy is pathetically small given his supposed gravitas, though he makes an OK Meganob model I suppose. The other Warboss sculpts lack the detail and general aesthetic of newer models.

They need replacing because they look awful, I’ve told you this. Just because you disagree it doesn’t make your stance any more valid than mine. Keep your old, gak looking Orks (do you even play them?), I’d like new ones thanks.

Let's be reasonable and say only Ghazkhull and Grotsnik need a new model. The others are absolutely typical for a mini's production run. 10+ years is nothing in the lifespan on a mini being on the shelves. Hell, the Rhino is older than the old one (1988-2001 and 2001 to today) when that was retired. Do we hear people calling that "old"?

Their age is only a factor when they look like gak, which they do. And it’s not ‘reasonable’ to expect Ork players who want a Big Choppa boss to have to use a model that’s 20 years old and metal. Same with the Deffkopta. The Weirdboy is garbage failcast too. This isn’t forgetting that our basic Boys are old as the hills (and thus look poor) and 2 of our most popular units (Stormboyz & Kommandos) are failcast too.

E - format, quote.

That Brian Nelson Ork warboss is a classic. It still looks excellent today, it does not "lack the detail"- that choppa is a beaut. (if anything, the plastic replacement has less detail) Snikrot is one of the best Ork models out there. And, once again. The Ork boyz are NOT old. They were redone in 2008. I'm failing to understand how (based on your profile) someone who has been in the hobby as long as I have does not understand this. Are we saying the entire DE range is "old" too, because they came out the same time. Are we saying the Baneblade is "old"? All of these things came out in 2008.

It is utterly unreasonable to expect a company to replace a kit that is only a few years old. I've seen this more and more from modern gamers (which is why I'm perplexed it's coming from you), you see people on social media bleating "tHiS kIt Is SoOoOoO oLd. iT cAmE oUt In 2012!". No, that' not how wargames figures work. They're meant to last, it is simply not financially feasible to replace a kit ever couple of years.

Stormboyz are definitely plastic. Do you mean tankbustas?

I'd love to see a tankbusta kit and a new boyz kit with bits for kommandos.

I do see why they've been left to last though...since most people just use the many many rokkit launchas you get in your boyz/nobz kits to make tankbustas and kommandos are armed with choppa and slugga.

 Grimtuff wrote:

That Brian Nelson Ork warboss is a classic. It still looks excellent today, it does not "lack the detail"- that choppa is a beaut. (if anything, the plastic replacement has less detail) Snikrot is one of the best Ork models out there. And, once again. The Ork boyz are NOT old. They were redone in 2008. I'm failing to understand how (based on your profile) someone who has been in the hobby as long as I have does not understand this. Are we saying the entire DE range is "old" too, because they came out the same time. Are we saying the Baneblade is "old"? All of these things came out in 2008.

It is utterly unreasonable to expect a company to replace a kit that is only a few years old. I've seen this more and more from modern gamers (which is why I'm perplexed it's coming from you), you see people on social media bleating "tHiS kIt Is SoOoOoO oLd. iT cAmE oUt In 2012!". No, that' not how wargames figures work. They're meant to last, it is simply not financially feasible to replace a kit ever couple of years.

Right so we're going in circles here. I don't like the Brian Nelson boss. Its old and lacks detail in my opinion. I'd like a replacement. That is my opinion and you aren't going to change it. Snikrot is beautiful, he hasn't been mentioned so not sure what you're bringing him up now? The Boyz kit is dated and has not aged well. " But I like it!" I hear you cry. Good for you Grim but I don't. I don't like their massive booty, I don't like their utter lack of detail (particularly on the faces) and I don't like their diminutive size. And yea I'd say some of the DE range is showing its age, definitely. The baneblade less so because it's a big tank.

My expectations of GW are again up to me. I don't think expecting new models, even if some players think they're lovely as they are currently, after 11-20 years is unreasonable at all. Especially with the number of updates certain factions enjoy. Its not just my current army either. The Vyper is the same model I played with when I was 12, I'm 33 for gods sake! Same with the warp spiders. And the Avatar of Khaine?! That model got me into 40k but the fact that it hasn't been updated what, ever should embarrass GW. I have one. Its another tiny Tim model.

the_scotsman wrote:
Stormboyz are definitely plastic. Do you mean tankbustas?

I'd love to see a tankbusta kit and a new boyz kit with bits for kommandos.

I do see why they've been left to last though...since most people just use the many many rokkit launchas you get in your boyz/nobz kits to make tankbustas and kommandos are armed with choppa and slugga.

I did, nice spot will correct.

So, the only things we know we're getting are Shadowspear, Abaddon and the sisters codex, right? Is anything else actually confirmed? Is Vigilus 2 confirmed, or assumed? Anyway, if not, I think it's a fairly safe assumption. I think it'll follow on the heels of Shadowspear, and launch alongside Abaddon.

Also, do we know what we're getting in the way of literature in Shadowspear? It's a 40k box right? I mean, as opposed to a boardgame. Assuming it is, it'll have the rules for those new models. Perhaps it'll have a Big-Rule-Book as well and be another starter kit alongside Dark Imperium.

Those new models will need to synergise with existing armies too, so I think it's also fair to expect the new models to be released separately and probably get their own books. I'm guessing we'll see something along the lines of Codex: Primaris Vanguard as well as possibly Codex: Black Legion, but I expect this will be a while after Shadowspear comes out to give those boxes time to shift.

Following that, I think it's probable that we'll see the next Primarch appear in Vigilus 3 to help save Vigilus (my money's on the Lion), but it's difficult to say if that'll be this year.

In terms of non-power armoured models, there's certainly a bunch of stuff that needs redoing, and Craftworlds are probably at the top of the list, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them put off again in favour of something imperial. I'm going to go out on a limb and predict a new or updated guard regiment before years end.

Either way, I think it's safe to assume that if they intend to maintain the same pace they've been on for the past two years, then no matter what comes out, there's going to be lots of it!

Black Legion/Primaris, SoB and GSC this year.

In Vigilus book 2, Abaddon will push back and basically win but then something will stir in the webway...

2020, Vigilus book 3 - Much like with Cadia, Ynnari and maybe Necrons arrive to 'save the day'. (Possible arrival of another loyalist primarch here in lieu)

2021 - Vigilus book 4 - Angron and the WE arrive (much to everyone's surprise as they were expected at Armageddon via Blood Crusade AND Because everyone will have presumed we'll get another loyalist Primarch)), drawn by the bloodshed and attempt to finish it all off. Things look bleak for the forces of good but then the hive mind, called by the GSC comes. Chaos and Orks are left to fight off the Tyranids by Imperial defenders who know that three broken factions on the world are better than one controlling all of it. Whilst they fight, the Imperium can re-group. Ynnari vanish and Abaddon shakes the Talon of Horus as he strolls back off into the Warp. The Imperium do leave some forces on the planet ofc (new boxed game is Epic defence of 'The Last Hive').

At some point Lion El Johnson or Vulkan and/or Lemon Russ will come back to re-take Vigilus. Elsewhere Fulgrim and the EC attack the Imperium/Eldar and Tau somehow get involved.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Anyone else think the sneak peeks of the new primaris vehicle look like it could be reminiscent of the old "deoderant speeder"?

Link?

What I thought was a new image on BOLS was more a reminder of an older leak, which is this thing:https://spikeybits.com/2018/09/primaris-getting-transport-new-gw-rumor-engine.html

As an admech player, im praying that this rumor engine is some sort of flying transport/dunecrawler. compare the image to the back of an onager dunecrawler and the similarities are striking.

1. LORGAR
2. ACTUAL Slaneshi daemonettes. I want perversion here. Uncomfortable opponents. I'm talking break out the goats and the tennis balls.
3. A new GK troop choice. PSY SCOUTS.
4. Models that animate. Rock 'em Sock 'em DRAIGO
5. Corvus White Stars
6. Primaris Squats.

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE for GW to replace more finecast models. Even though I don't even play the army, I feel that Craftworld Aspect Warriors are incredibly outdated and deserving of some new plastic models.

Other than that, a World Eaters or Emperor's Children codex and models would be very welcome.

Dark Mechanicus would be nice.

I'd love some more armigers. A Shield and spear carrier with a Heavy Flamer top mount.. Or one with a Hurricane bolter array arm, Heavy Flamer Top Mount, and Missile Launch other arm.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
A Primaris Azrael would be a nice way to close out 2019.

I'd be down for that! He looks so tiny next to my two big units of Hellblasters!

What we'll probably see is like 5+ new Primaris Lieutenants...

It’s true, I call him Napolean, he's tiny next to all my Hellblasters

Books:
Certainly there's going to be a new book with specialist detachments for armies left out of Vigilus Defiant.
Some kind of Killteam expansion/box set.
Then I think Ynnari will probably get a codex.

Models:
SoB is (hopefully) going to be a lot of new stuff, probably some rue new things that the beta codex doesn't have.
Clearly the Primaris range is getting expanded.
Some new stuff to go with the Ynnari codex.