Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

A.T. wrote:
We could just fluff in they get wiped out, and roll their special gak into DW. I mean, there is literally no point to their existence, even model wise. Fluff wise they are replaced by Primaris/DW. Model-wise they are replaced by Custards. Outside of Mini-smite, what do GK bring to the table? Weak shooting and over costed models, HO!

They'd be a great element in a more complete talons of the emperor faction - bringing the middle ground between the custodes and sisters as a medium range/counter assault unit with psychic and other special abilities.

Karol wrote:
If GM NDKs or some other character becomes good to run alongside a SoB army and some custodes bikers, the GK would suck for someone who wants to play GK or has a GK army

(SoS, not SoB in this case - also broken quote).
Daemonhunters was my first army back into 40k after a break. Nice models and cool to take as a unit but not a theme that stretched into an army.
GW had nowhere to go with them, just padding them out with generic transports and even more elite elites. I just think being a key and distinct part of a talons or agents codex is a better way to go forward than the greymarines and primaris knights that likely awaits them otherwise.

i think a big fix would be to balance armies around the idea that main line units for one army their breads n butters cost them as much to field as another army might field a hundred of something else and abandon this notion that grey knights are precious few against a horde of many and trying to strike a balance between quality vs quantity which is never easy to do in a game where rolling more cheap disposable dice wins engagements 7/10

so we make grey knight terminators cost as much as intercessors and strikes cost somewhere between scouts and tac marines. somewhere in thats 3 point gap per model

if you must insist then i present the following ammendment to the armor system

any model with a 2+ armor save makes 2 rounds of saves against weapons with less then ap -2 (though ap -1 still lowers the armor rating). so now a power axe vs a land raider would force it to take a set of two 3+ armors against your attacks.

replacing the two items 5 grey knights vs 30 conscripts usually die to sheer dice bucket syndrome. now it will take twice the number of shots as it typically would. guys like skitarii rangers or tau fire warriors can no longer simply dump the hand into charging bullgryns reliably if squads arent at full strength and a lot more resources are pulled into bringing them down

we could then further augment this with an ammendment to overwatch by turning it into choice. models who elect to overwatch forfeit their first round of melee if close combat does begin the idea being that you had your gun out. you didnt have time to draw your knife when that mutilator came barreling down at you and now that hes here your gun is looking awfully useless. it rewards a melee unit for being a melee unit and fulfilling its function of stabbing things. shooting units get to react to them as they do best (by shooting) but doesnt give them a free second round of attacks to try and kill their attacks via their attack in fight subphase. with any survivoirs getting to now fight back in future rounds as normal.

this makes a player make a conscientious choice with how they approach a melee threat at the final moment before it will begin to do work. responding to the attack with the defending units strongest response method rather then giving them a way out. (and for those wondering that means that tau units who group OW now suddenly get charged and mauled turning group OW into a tool the tau can use in times of emergency or when tactically necissary rather then something you would always want to do if you could making its effective use even more paramount to your success)

changing these also make terminators one of the grey knights troops a lot more threatening and powerful. if any at all reach CC they get two rounds to beat on someone if they try and gun them down coming in and reap a heavy toll and more will reach CC then ever before because now cheap guns are not a problem solver. one cannot blob their way as reliably out of these messes.

 ionusx wrote:
so we make grey knight terminators cost as much as intercessors and strikes cost somewhere between scouts and tac marines

On the face of it, that sounds like a tremendously bad idea in a game with allies.

5th edition and earlier it could perhaps have been made to work.