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 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

Spoiler:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I've been wondering for years where Chaos players got enough arms from to equip their Terminators all with Combiweapons, but I guess some people don't magnetize like me but stick to one loadout.

One of the gripes I've heard about magnets is if your models are stored close together in foam, and the case shifts around- the magnets will start grabbing each other and that's how bits and pieces get chipped. I travel, so I can tell you it'll happen.

I don't magnetize because I rarely want to swap out my loadouts often enough. Usually the way I build them is the way I always intend to use them, and I will go and buy another kit if I want another loadout- because I'll usually do something different in terms of conversion and customizing for the second set. I mean, a good, simple example is Reivers- two squads with different heads, weapon options, and other stuff glued on to make one look more like "shooty tactical guys" and the others to look like "Vicious stabby guys".

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Racerguy180 wrote:
I have not said anything derogatory about someone with a differing opinion. If you can tell me why the kit is somehow different to what the squad is equipped with as a base and then explain how this is a model problem and not the rules writers who wrote down what you can take for the squads, I will gladly concede the point.

The squad as a base? Do you mean "on the box"?

If you're telling me that all kits should be what's shown on the box cover photo- an image designed to showcase the array of different things in the kit itself- and that's it... then I'm going to tell you that you're probably the only person in this hobby that feels that way, I can't promise that but I get the feeling we'd have to look really, really hard to find someone who agrees with you.

If you're saying that it's a problem with the rules, because they should have changed the rules to limit the options for Terminators based on the limitations in the new kit- then I'm probably going to also have to say, I think you're one of the very few people with this opinion.

So apparently tactical squads shouldn't be able to take power axes, lascannons, etc- right? Guard veterans shouldn't even be a thing, because no one has shotguns. Riiiiight.

I'm not going to disparage you or call you names. But I'm going to say that the points you're making are so absurd at this point, I'm almost convinced you're trolling. There's no way you actually reached this conclusion with a straight face.

If you don't see the issue here, then I don't know what to say. Because it'll violate the hell out of rule #1, and unlike your thoughts on this kit- very few people will disagree with the statement, it'll just be rude.

1 I'm not trolling.
2 I do see the issue, I just think that you should be mad at the people who wrote the rules in a specific way that makes what comes in the box not work.
Basically you should point your anger at the right place. Getting mad at the kit that was designed something like 5 years ago and any issues you are having currently wont be rectified anytime soon. The kit looks great and I'm sure plenty of people will buy however many they need. If you have such an issue with it, maybe don't buy it and tell them why in the community survey.

I'm not advocating minimal choices at all, they should have more weapons, but at the expense of what else. Cataphrachtii & Tartaros kits have a decent amount of options, but if you want to run 5 of something, LC are your only choice.GW are trying to make the game more friendly to new players. I wonder how many of those kits are going to be the only one people buy.

Racerguy180 wrote:

1 I'm not trolling.

Then there's only one other thing it could be. I'm sure it's obvious to everyone at this point.

Racerguy180 wrote:
2 I do see the issue, I just think that you should be mad at the people who wrote the rules in a specific way that makes what comes in the box not work.
Basically you should point your anger at the right place. Getting mad at the kit that was designed something like 5 years ago and any issues you are having currently wont be rectified anytime soon. The kit looks great and I'm sure plenty of people will buy however many they need. If you have such an issue with it, maybe don't buy it and tell them why in the community survey.

So you're saying that a kit, limited in its sprue options- should retroactively have its rules changed to further restrict the unit.

Again, it's now outright obvious to everyone.

At this point, I don't have the professional training and visual aids to make you understand- you're outright rejecting every legitimate statement made by others- just to be snarky, and you're not being clever.

Whatever your goal is, you need to try harder before it becomes amusing... or just stop before it ends up becoming a meme.

I'm not trying to be snarky, I would be violating rule#1 if I was.

I have not disregarded the statements made by anyone else.
I would like it if GW didn't do this to people, so be mad at whomever.

Explain to me how any of what I said is untrue?

What would you have done differently to the sprue design? How best would you represent a range of options for the beginner all the way to veteran hobbyist? How well do the models match what the codex says they have? what should they have in the first place? how many sprues should the kit contain? How much $€£¥ will those choices increase/decrease per unit optimization costs? Perceived value?


Instead of complaining, why dont you provide meaningful input. I'm not a model designer, so I dont have anything to on that front, my guess is no one else in this thread is either.

Racerguy180 wrote:
I'm not trying to be snarky, I would be violating rule#1 if I was.

You know the funny part is when people think they're clever. You can tell a lot about them.

Racerguy180 wrote:
What would you have done differently to the sprue design? How best would you represent a range of options for the beginner all the way to veteran hobbyist? How well do the models match what the codex says they have? what should they have in the first place? how many sprues should the kit contain? How much $€£¥ will those choices increase/decrease per unit optimization costs? Perceived value?

I'd say it's simple- if I buy 2 of the kits, I should be able to make 5 with entirely one standard same-weapon loadout, and another 5 with a different same-weapon loadout.

You know, that thing that every other Terminator kit can do, including the one this one replaced.

And the price point should- and very well could be the same as the previous one, without really a complaint for me.

Racerguy180 wrote:
Instead of complaining, why dont you provide meaningful input. I'm not a model designer, so I dont have anything to on that front, my guess is no one else in this thread is either.

Instead of attacking people in this thread for having a very valid complaint, why don't you provide meaningful input? Oh, yes- I do provide input. To them. And I wouldn't be shocked if you were on their facebook page, spamming your 'interesting' tactic of attacking the criticism.

GW has lawyers, marketing staff, customer service people, etc. They can defend their own property. You're not gonna get free Warhammer toys and booty-pats for "helping" run interference for them.

FFS, I'm usually one of the first to roll my eyes at the absurd complaints people make, but this pack was a bad idea and only cosmetically better than the previous kit in terms of how useful it is.

Again, I'm waiting for you to redeem my faith in humanity and tell me "April Fool's", because there's no way you can be this absurd.

Your defense of this sprue is on par with the old GW defense of their bad ideas, that even GW memes now.

Oh, and FYI? I don't have to be a chef to criticize the foot I eat, if I dislike the taste. So can the whole "You don't make models, so you don't know what you're talking about!" That's pathetic, even by my lowest standards.

“Build then like they are on the box”?

Blightlord Termies with their illegal squad load out on their box say “Hi!”.

 Grimtuff wrote:
“Build then like they are on the box”?

Blightlord Termies with their illegal squad load out on their box say “Hi!”.

Wait what?!?

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
“Build then like they are on the box”?

Blightlord Termies with their illegal squad load out on their box say “Hi!”.

Wait what?!?

Note the two heavy weapons. If one were to build them like they are on the box, (as suggested for the new Termies) you would get an illegal loadout.

I did always wonder about that but since i don't really care about DG beyond Plaguemarines i never asked.

I belive that box lost too much spikes and that lead to the regular box getting double garden fences.

Maybe this is a stupid question, but considering all marine units of some sort have 2 "other" weapon of some kind in 5 man squads. Why don't termintors run around with 2 hvy weapons ? Specially for termintor units that could run in 3man squads this could be nice. 3 chaos termintors with two cheap autocannons and a fist plasma leader, or a tri of BA termintors with 2 assault cannons and a storm shield armed boss.

Karol wrote:
Maybe this is a stupid question, but considering all marine units of some sort have 2 "other" weapon of some kind in 5 man squads. Why don't termintors run around with 2 hvy weapons ? Specially for termintor units that could run in 3man squads this could be nice. 3 chaos termintors with two cheap autocannons and a fist plasma leader, or a tri of BA termintors with 2 assault cannons and a storm shield armed boss.

Because at one point in time that was actually the case, and belive me if i say this, with the old Deppstrike rules and armor facing vlaues, CSM suicide terminators with combi meltas were tournament units. Oh and not particulary funny to play against if they came down and didnt scatter.

I don't care at all that the box doesent have all the options - boxes rarely do, if ever...

What I don't like is that they can't be equipped with what the codex entry says they come with standard. They are armed with combi bolters and chainaxes. There is one chainaxe. That is frustrating.

What have I done about it? I've ordered chainaxes from FW. I still feel that the basic load out as listed in a units codex entry should come in the box.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Karol wrote:
Maybe this is a stupid question, but considering all marine units of some sort have 2 "other" weapon of some kind in 5 man squads. Why don't termintors run around with 2 hvy weapons ? Specially for termintor units that could run in 3man squads this could be nice. 3 chaos termintors with two cheap autocannons and a fist plasma leader, or a tri of BA termintors with 2 assault cannons and a storm shield armed boss.

Because at one point in time that was actually the case, and belive me if i say this, with the old Deppstrike rules and armor facing vlaues, CSM suicide terminators with combi meltas were tournament units. Oh and not particulary funny to play against if they came down and didnt scatter.

Ah ok, if they weren't much to play then GW probably won't bring them back. Well I guess vigilus 3 or some other not cadia book could make termintors good at melee, or something. Plus if they ever get a rottor cannon class weapon, they could become ok at shoting too. Or just let Lord take hvy weapons. Grey Knights master can take a psycannon for example.

I came up with a slightly-more-expensive than barebones loadout that still works for the same effect and can be made out of the contents of one box. It's what I plan on doing with the box I'm buying:

Champion: Combi-plasma, Power Axe
1x Terminator: Combi-bolter, Chainaxe
2x Terminator: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw
1x Terminator: Reaper Autocannon, Power Maul

You could replace the autocannon and/or the combi-plasma on the champion with a combi-bolter to keep it cheaper. But this runs about 170 something points, so about 20 points more than basic combi-bolter/chainaxe, IMHO looks cooler and can be made out of a single box.

It’s frustrating that the new terminator box is light on options.

The obvious solutions that I see:

Forgeworld sells terminator Combi weapons, power weapons and chain axes

They also sell chain axes separately.

Warp Talon lightning claws look better on terminators than the standard ones anyway so you could try that out.

There’s also places like hoard-o-bits etc. Where you can purchase individual pieces.

Well I sent a polite email to Gw asking them to recall the box and retool the sprue, they have done it before due to players requesting it, very unlikely to happen these days but it's worth a try.

For anyone that does not remember when the 3rd ed chaos marines squad came out it was 8 man, crack on player backlash and they recalled it, and re released it with 10 within 3-6 months or original release, can't quite remember.

 Formosa wrote:
Well I sent a polite email to Gw asking them to recall the box and retool the sprue, they have done it before due to players requesting it, very unlikely to happen these days but it's worth a try.

For anyone that does not remember when the 3rd ed chaos marines squad came out it was 8 man, crack on player backlash and they recalled it, and re released it with 10 within 3-6 months or original release, can't quite remember.

I remember when that kit came out (you mean the old CSM box right?) and I don't ever remember this happening. I bought that kit shortly after it came out (it was around the 3.5 codex) and I definitely recall it being 10 guys. The Berserker kit might have been 8 guys (But I think it was 12 at first, I can't remember but could check later). The 2nd edition metal squad was 10 guys (or 5 plastic guys with bolters/pistols if you bought that one as filler). I don't ever remember the base marine kit being 8 guys. Not saying you're wrong I could be misremembering I'm going back a long time.

Yep is was definitely 8 guys, I remember it very clearly, I also remember going back a long while later and being surprised by it being 10 man and the then GW manager explaining it all to me.

 Formosa wrote:
Yep is was definitely 8 guys, I remember it very clearly, I also remember going back a long while later and being surprised by it being 10 man and the then GW manager explaining it all to me.

Now I'll have to check this because that's nothing I recall. That is the kit you mean right? the previous CSM multipart kit?

Yep the previous CSM multipart kit, not the metal one but the plastic one, the original release was 8 man, then went up to 10.

A fairly easy solution would be for GW to develop a 3rd sprue with 1 additional set of each weapon option and put it in future kits for free.
That way, you can at least have 2 of anything in a unit. Bonus points if they include enough Comib-bolters and Axes for the basic build on all 5 models

But, it's unrealistic to expect GW to have created a kit in which you could do 5x any 1 option for a 5-man unit. That only works with units that few options and are forced to equip all the same.
Look at Eldar Wraithguard, for example. There are only 4 options for each model, so they can be included, and have to be since you cannot mix-match options (but I wish you could).

Chaos Termies, however, have TONS of options each. I agree there should have at least been enough for all 5 models to share a singular basic build (Combi-bolter/Axe), but as for Lightning claws, non-bolter Combi-weapons, Fists, various Powerweapons, etc., I don't think the kit was ever going to include 3+ of any of those option.

But, 2x each would have been nice.

-

I agree galef, I would be happy with the basic options to be included and anything else can be acquired another way, but the lack of ability to even do the basic stock loadout of the squad is very poor.

I would have even taken them putting out an upgrade sprue that rounds out the weapons within reason, even if it was like $20 more. It would suck to pay more for what should be there already, but still. This is just ridiculous all around.

I mean if people really want to have a specific loadout where there aren't all those options in the box (this is very common for example harlequins don't come with enough fusion pistols for a full squad) there are a bunch of options.
1. Kitbash
2. Covert
3. Buy 3rd party
4. Buy bitz
5. Buy a 2 piece push mold and you can make as many of whatever option your wanting for like $15
Obviously it would be nice if it came with every available loadout in the box but there are a bunch of ways to get the weapons your looking for

Karol wrote:
Maybe this is a stupid question, but considering all marine units of some sort have 2 "other" weapon of some kind in 5 man squads. Why don't termintors run around with 2 hvy weapons ? Specially for termintor units that could run in 3man squads this could be nice. 3 chaos termintors with two cheap autocannons and a fist plasma leader, or a tri of BA termintors with 2 assault cannons and a storm shield armed boss.

Being able to field such units leads to a min-max play style which is luckily a thing of the past. The main issue with 8th is not that there are too few heavy weapons around but that the basic guns like boltguns suck.

I would suggest you deal with them in the same way I am; by ignoring them.

If no-one buys these crappy monopose sculpts, they'll stop making them.

I've been waiting for ca. two years now to see what they do with Noise Marines/EC and I am now convinced that whatever they do will be crap and monopose, so I'm scrapping my plans for a Heretic Astartes portion of my "soup".

I am but one nonbinary person, but I am voting with my wallet. It's a resounding 'nyet' from me.

 Formosa wrote:
Well I sent a polite email to Gw asking them to recall the box and retool the sprue, they have done it before due to players requesting it, very unlikely to happen these days but it's worth a try.

For anyone that does not remember when the 3rd ed chaos marines squad came out it was 8 man, crack on player backlash and they recalled it, and re released it with 10 within 3-6 months or original release, can't quite remember.

Not quite. What happened was when they released it was the same price as all of the equivalent other boxes at the time (£15) and fan backlash got them to eventually lower the price to £12, with refunds even being given to regulars who had bought one at the old price.

The retooled 10 man one didn't come out till much later in 4th ed.

 Formosa wrote:
Yep is was definitely 8 guys, I remember it very clearly, I also remember going back a long while later and being surprised by it being 10 man and the then GW manager explaining it all to me.

Yep, I remember this box too as I bought several of them. At that time metal heavy weapon/specialists troopers were also sold separately in blisters and with these guys you could manage to field exactly ten marines per squad. Though today you don´t have this kind of "blister reinforcement" for your plastic box dudes and therefore GW must make sure that the box includes every essential and desirable build that the codex either requires and/or offers. Otherwise the box will collect dust on the shelves as the customers don´t want to be tricked into buying a subpar box which doesn´t even allow them to unlock the full potential of the squad like the new Havoc box with single rotor cannon exemplifies.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I would suggest you deal with them in the same way I am; by ignoring them.

If no-one buys these crappy monopose sculpts, they'll stop making them.

I've been waiting for ca. two years now to see what they do with Noise Marines/EC and I am now convinced that whatever they do will be crap and monopose, so I'm scrapping my plans for a Heretic Astartes portion of my "soup".

I am but one nonbinary person, but I am voting with my wallet. It's a resounding 'nyet' from me.

That also works i guess

I will still get one, but i will also tell gw to take a hike and get cheap axes somewhere else.

Wayniac wrote:
I would have even taken them putting out an upgrade sprue that rounds out the weapons within reason, even if it was like $20 more. It would suck to pay more for what should be there already, but still. This is just ridiculous all around.

Would you have paid for an all CC box or an all ranged box?

 Kanluwen wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
I would have even taken them putting out an upgrade sprue that rounds out the weapons within reason, even if it was like $20 more. It would suck to pay more for what should be there already, but still. This is just ridiculous all around.

Would you have paid for an all CC box or an all ranged box?

Probably not, hard to tell.