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Racerguy180 wrote:
So wait, the box doesnt come with enough parts to make 5 terminators? You cant build the models with what's supplied? How in the hell did GW dare to do that.

Back to reality, I'm pretty sure that you can play with what's included in a box. It may not be the "optimal" loadout for you, but more people with be fine with what's in the box than not.

Open a window when you're gluing models together.

"more people fine with what's in the box" = [citation needed]

Dude, you're going to sit here and tell me that I'm "unrealistic" for wanting a box that's more expensive than the loyalist variant to have just as many options as the loyalist variant?

Racerguy180 wrote:

so the kit has no weapons? or it just comes with the ones you don't want?

obviously GW thought the loadout was good enough otherwise they wouldn't have released the kit.

So let me get this straight, you want the entire squad to have the same weapons, isnt that what people have been complaining about with Primaris? Basically GW cant do anything right?

I found the guy that'll buy 5 kits, by the way.

Or wait, let me guess: "I don't even play Chaos"

edited by ingtaer

Why would chaos have the same exact equipment as the imperium? matter of fact why wouldn't chaos have all the stuff the imperium cant/wont? o wait they have a codex full of stuff loyalists cant have. If that's the case, now I want demons for the Imperium, pretty sure you'd be up in arms about that.

I do as of Shadowspear, is that a problem? if it is, well sucks to be you.

Racerguy180 wrote:
I do as of Shadowspear, is that a problem? if it is, well sucks to be you.

So you've basically never had any experience with the other CSM Terminator kits.

People kinda have a valid complaint here.

edited by ingtaer

Racerguy180 wrote:

Adeptus Doritos wrote:This terminator kit is the biggest disappointment of the entire Chaos release wave.

I almost hate GW's audacity for thinking people will buy 5 kits for a power claw squad, or multiple boxes... but they're only doing what they've learned they can get away with, and I've seen people spend ludicrous amounts already.

So wait, the box doesnt come with enough parts to make 5 terminators? You cant build the models with what's supplied? How in the hell did GW dare to do that.

Back to reality, I'm pretty sure that you can play with what's included in a box. It may not be the "optimal" loadout for you, but more people with be fine with what's in the box than not.

I've been going to bat for GW on a lot of things, this kit, ain't one of them. I haven't found anyone overly happy with the kit yet, you may find it acceptable, but I doubt even you are running out to buy two of them.

I think the issue is that your basic loadout isn't available. If they gave 5 power fists and made the generic loadout power fists wouldnt be such a big issue. But the fact you can't make what it says on the box, before upgrading/downgrading is just bannanas.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:
I do as of Shadowspear, is that a problem? if it is, well sucks to be you.

So you've basically never had any experience with the other CSM Terminator kits.
People kinda have a valid complaint here.

Ok if that's the case then fine, my opinion and outside viewpoint have no more validity than yours. But how come nobody locally(to me) is complaining ? they must be new chaos players, not you know been playing since RT and dont complain 1/10th as much. They've (8or so) have said the kits look better than ever and cant wait for them. but they dont count. that's right a differing viewpoint is invalid.

I have never said that the kit doesnt have enough options in it or it does. It's just that if GW wanted the kits to have all that stuff it wouldhave had it. With all of the new releases, GW has been making units work with what's in the box. So how is what they've done, wrong?

Still havent answered the questions about why/how the kit is worse than before and if you've had so many terminators before, you should have tons of bits to rectify the issue you've presented?


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 vaklor4 wrote:
I think the issue is that your basic loadout isn't available. If they gave 5 power fists and made the generic loadout power fists wouldnt be such a big issue. But the fact you can't make what it says on the box, before upgrading/downgrading is just bannanas.

thank you, that actually answers my question. It still isnt a kit issue, more of a rules one then.

It's very surprising that essentially there is only one of each option in the box.

Anyone know if the old terminator power axes and fists scale well with the new kits?

 Roknar wrote:


Other kits have 3 sprues and cost less, that's no excuse at all.

Which would those be?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:


I defend a lot of what GW does, but you are absolutely fanboy levels of nuts if you think not including the default layout from a unit's datasheet on the sprue is defensible. I don't even play Chaos and I could immediately tell the box was a raw deal when I saw the weapon contents.

This kit has more options than the previous termie kit.

How many combiplasma in the last one? Zero, iirc.

Too few options? Complain about lack of variety.
Too many options? Complain about lack of default weapons.

Now, I'm sure GW could have made an extra spruce, but then we'd be bitching about cost, wouldn't we?

Come on Daedalus, I know you love to play devil’s advocate, but this is pretty clearly a problem. If there is only one chain axe in the kit, and you are expected to equip 4 or so guys with them, what are you supposed to do? If you do buy four boxes, every arm is going to be posed exactly the same. I don’t even play chaos and I can still tell that this sucks. This would be like if they only gave you one shotgun in the entire genestealer cultist box, but then gave you the option to kit the whole squad out that way.

 Asmodas wrote:


Come on Daedalus, I know you love to play devil’s advocate, but this is pretty clearly a problem. If there is only one chain axe in the kit, and you are expected to equip 4 or so guys with them, what are you supposed to do? If you do buy four boxes, every arm is going to be posed exactly the same. I don’t even play chaos and I can still tell that this sucks. This would be like if they only gave you one shotgun in the entire genestealer cultist box, but then gave you the option to kit the whole squad out that way.

You aren't expected to do that at all though and (almost) no one will be buying four boxes.

Does the competitive crowd want super cheaper terminators on the table? Absolutely.
Does that mean all the people buying this kit will want that? I'm quite doubtful.

The kit most represents what chaos terminators are and have been for quite some time. When I ran metal termies I just took what I had available for models - melta / chainfist / whatever. I always *wanted* plasma & axe, but that just wasn't feasible for me at the time. This is no different. Either i'll convert or make do.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Asmodas wrote:


Come on Daedalus, I know you love to play devil’s advocate, but this is pretty clearly a problem. If there is only one chain axe in the kit, and you are expected to equip 4 or so guys with them, what are you supposed to do? If you do buy four boxes, every arm is going to be posed exactly the same. I don’t even play chaos and I can still tell that this sucks. This would be like if they only gave you one shotgun in the entire genestealer cultist box, but then gave you the option to kit the whole squad out that way.

You aren't expected to do that at all though and (almost) no one will be buying four boxes.

Does the competitive crowd want super cheaper terminators on the table? Absolutely.
Does that mean all the people buying this kit will want that? I'm quite doubtful.

The kit most represents what chaos terminators are and have been for quite some time. When I ran metal termies I just took what I had available for models - melta / chainfist / whatever. I always *wanted* plasma & axe, but that just wasn't feasible for me at the time. This is no different. Either i'll convert or make do.

It really wouldn't cost much more to make a duplicate sprue with the weapon options. It really wouldn't. Look at people's calculations online, and you'll see that it would add what...Maybe 5 dollars on the box price? I would gladly pay that for the ability to run what I want.

Honestly this is just another nail in the WYSIWYG coffin, I see most people just using the termies as counts as, its not a good solution but its better than expecting people to buy a £30 box then spend £2 per arm/weapon or more just to make them the normal loadout.

 vaklor4 wrote:


It really wouldn't cost much more to make a duplicate sprue with the weapon options. It really wouldn't. Look at people's calculations online, and you'll see that it would add what...Maybe 5 dollars on the box price? I would gladly pay that for the ability to run what I want.

Yea, but in typical GW flair it would be $15 instead. Upgrade kits are going to be something I'm pushing for the survey.

I can't even start to comprehend how people can defend this terminator kit when you have kits like the GK, Tartaros, Cathapractii ones or the Deathwing one that are just superior in every regard. And I'm a GW defender but just like when they made the Plague Marine kit a 7 man kit costing the same as the 10 man Rubric kit I complained, I'm gonna do it know. And just as some people did back there, trying to justify it "But look at how many weapons options theres on the box"... "But is because fluff, 7 is the number of nurgle..." "If they added another sprue with 3 plague marine bodies the kit would have ended up COSTING A HUNDRED DOLLARIDOOS"

Please. Just stop with all of that nonsense.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Asmodas wrote:


Come on Daedalus, I know you love to play devil’s advocate, but this is pretty clearly a problem. If there is only one chain axe in the kit, and you are expected to equip 4 or so guys with them, what are you supposed to do? If you do buy four boxes, every arm is going to be posed exactly the same. I don’t even play chaos and I can still tell that this sucks. This would be like if they only gave you one shotgun in the entire genestealer cultist box, but then gave you the option to kit the whole squad out that way.

You aren't expected to do that at all though and (almost) no one will be buying four boxes.

Does the competitive crowd want super cheaper terminators on the table? Absolutely.
Does that mean all the people buying this kit will want that? I'm quite doubtful.

The kit most represents what chaos terminators are and have been for quite some time. When I ran metal termies I just took what I had available for models - melta / chainfist / whatever. I always *wanted* plasma & axe, but that just wasn't feasible for me at the time. This is no different. Either i'll convert or make do.

We are a bit past the days of metal termies, though. I started playing in that era too, and it’s true that we generally took what we could get back in ye olde second edition days. For me, at least, the issue is a missed opportunity not just to min-max your squad (and If you took my position to be that, I apologize for giving you that impression), but to get some variety in poseability. In my Harlequin army, for example, I have about 40 different Troupe members, and none of them look alike because the kit gives you a wide variety of different masks, weapons, etc. Even the special weapons, like the embrace, have two different poses for the arm. I have bought that kit 6 times, and it is because it is great fun to build since you can make each guy (or gal) look like an individual.

As I said before, I don’t play chaos, but I just feel like a few extra bucks for a larger sprue size so you can include more weapons and poses would have been a better way to go.

The whining from not having updated kits was pretty ridiculous. Now that Chaos players have new ones, they can't seem to stop complaining. I much preferred when the chaos players complained about having old kits. That was a classic.

Now this is just getting sad, guys.

Lemondish wrote:
The whining from not having updated kits was pretty ridiculous. Now that Chaos players have new ones, they can't seem to stop complaining. I much preferred when the chaos players complained about having old kits. That was a classic.

Now this is just getting sad, guys.

At what point, GW, as a company that sells a product we must pay a good price for, gained the privilege to be inmune to critique when they make a subpar product? Nobody said to others "Guys, stop saying Abaddon is awesome and one of the best models in miniature history! Just keep moaning!", didn't they?

Lemondish wrote:
The whining from not having updated kits was pretty ridiculous. Now that Chaos players have new ones, they can't seem to stop complaining. I much preferred when the chaos players complained about having old kits. That was a classic.

Now this is just getting sad, guys.

It is, by all objective standards, a valid complaint. And because this kit is objectively inferior to any other terminator kit, I won't buy them. I put my money where my mouth is, rather than putting my mouth on GW's backside when they make a poor decision, rather than defending them.

And the baffling part is, everything else GW has made for this release has been great.

I wonder if the same people defending this would have been OK with a box of 10 hellblasters that had 4 of the rapid fire type, 3 assault and 3 heavy?

I was going to buy a box of terms hand down, but I'm a little more hesitant now. I'll have to look at the options/points to see if I'm OK with it. Different power weapons are fine, it's not like they all have to be the same. It's pretty weak though, especially the cost for the 2 sprues when other similar boxes can get 3.

 Roknar wrote:
I haven't seen any third party chain axes that I actually liked

Not even these? A bit too large for a marine, should look right on TDA:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Chain-Axes

You have 4 melee arms, just put these on, and use power axe or power fist on last guy?

 Roknar wrote:
I'm so NOT a competitive player, but that's insane. Nobody has ever played with a mix of all the options a unit has.

Funnily enough, that's exactly how people played GK termies in 5th edition. Nobz and ork bikers, too

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:


I defend a lot of what GW does, but you are absolutely fanboy levels of nuts if you think not including the default layout from a unit's datasheet on the sprue is defensible. I don't even play Chaos and I could immediately tell the box was a raw deal when I saw the weapon contents.

This kit has more options than the previous termie kit.

How many combiplasma in the last one? Zero, iirc.

Too few options? Complain about lack of variety.
Too many options? Complain about lack of default weapons.

Now, I'm sure GW could have made an extra spruce, but then we'd be bitching about cost, wouldn't we?

It's like there is no helping the bitchfest.

I'm gonna buy 2 boxes, why, cuz I want 10 and am fine with their loadout.

o and btw calling me a fanboy is the most ludicrous name I've ever been called. I specifically avoided GW for 25yrs cuz the rules blew and the models were ok. Now the rules actually are fun and the models kickass. I might be guilty of many things but fanboy I am not.

If youre not a fanboy, you are a giant idiot. Maybe once you actually put together a squad youll understand


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Its pretty clear GW want people to run them with an assortment of weapons to be more fluffy. But its sad how GW is trying to make these models, which are supposed to be "your guys", fit their image of what a chaos termy squad looks like. I thought the CSM box was bad, because it only comes with 7 boltguns and doesnt even include the iconic csm helm, but this is just nuts

The way that the sprues line up it's as if the box art is how they want you to run the unit.

The terminators are the only let down of the whole release for me, everything else got smashed out of the park.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Roknar wrote:


Other kits have 3 sprues and cost less, that's no excuse at all.

Which would those be?

I mean, the base Tactical Squad box is 3 sprues for 40 bucks. The Plague Marine kit, for all it's flaws is 3 for 50. I'm fairly sure the best comparisons are the GK and Deathwing Terminator boxes though. Same price, 1 less sprue. If they just want you to build hodgepodge units that's one thing, but only having the few options they include is not a cost issue.

Ork nobs would like a chat. XP

One power stabba
One killsaw
2 Powerklaws
4 big choppas
A random assortment of choppas and sluggas
1 Kombiskorcha
2 Kombirokkits
No Kustom shoota or Waagh banner options in the kit

I think it happens a bit with units that are designed to be a motley group of elites or specialists. Perhaps it's just part of GW design philosophy, the rule of cool and all that.

I look forward to seeing how many people end up getting put in the corner for a few days over this thread.

Yes, CSM players complained for a while. Considering a lot of their kits were old enough to vote or enlist, a lot of that was pretty valid. Yes, we are all very aware that several armies are still stuck with Finecast models, Guard is stuck with 2 types of outdated guardsman kits (unless you are willing to sell organs on the black market and go DKoK), and some stuff is still running out of the Index- no one is saying your toys don't need an update, too.

And playing CSM in 7th was an absolute pain, it was outright dedication to the fluff or aesthetics that kept people waiting through an entire edition to get formations. Anyone who could stick around through that is admirable.

But being perfectly honest, the CSM players have a pretty valid gripe about one kit (after overwhelmingly being happy with all the other stuff), and that one kit is more expensive than the previous versions and the options are replaced with decorative kibble.

Yes, we know the solution is to "kitbash and convert", you're not clever for pointing this out as a solution- but the thing is, a lot of people are not fans of the idea that they effectively have to buy 2 more kits and spend more money on an already more expensive kit.

This doesn't seem like CSM players whining for no reason- this seems like people who didn't get new toys getting snarky.

123ply wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:


I defend a lot of what GW does, but you are absolutely fanboy levels of nuts if you think not including the default layout from a unit's datasheet on the sprue is defensible. I don't even play Chaos and I could immediately tell the box was a raw deal when I saw the weapon contents.

This kit has more options than the previous termie kit.

How many combiplasma in the last one? Zero, iirc.

Too few options? Complain about lack of variety.
Too many options? Complain about lack of default weapons.

Now, I'm sure GW could have made an extra spruce, but then we'd be bitching about cost, wouldn't we?

It's like there is no helping the bitchfest.

I'm gonna buy 2 boxes, why, cuz I want 10 and am fine with their loadout.

o and btw calling me a fanboy is the most ludicrous name I've ever been called. I specifically avoided GW for 25yrs cuz the rules blew and the models were ok. Now the rules actually are fun and the models kickass. I might be guilty of many things but fanboy I am not.

If youre not a fanboy, you are a giant idiot. Maybe once you actually put together a squad youll understand


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Its pretty clear GW want people to run them with an assortment of weapons to be more fluffy. But its sad how GW is trying to make these models, which are supposed to be "your guys", fit their image of what a chaos termy squad looks like. I thought the CSM box was bad, because it only comes with 7 boltguns and doesnt even include the iconic csm helm, but this is just nuts

Name calling doesnt provide anything worthwhile to the discussion. Kinda lame that's how you went. Seems to me that you may have some deep ceded issues. I dont need to resort to name calling, your words speak more of you than you think.

It's really a rules issue, not one with the actual kit. I seem to remember that GW makes the models first and rules second.

Racerguy180 wrote:
Name calling doesnt provide anything worthwhile to the discussion. Kinda lame that's how you went. Seems to me that you may have some deep ceded issues. I dont need to resort to name calling, your words speak more of you than you think.

*Deep-seeded* or deep-seated* issues. Yeah, he was wrong for calling you a name, but before you get snarky back with him you might wanna double-check the words you're using. So, something about words speaking more of you than you think or whatever.

Racerguy180 wrote:
It's really a rules issue, not one with the actual kit. I seem to remember that GW makes the models first and rules second.

No, the issue is with the actual kit. People are literally pointing out the deficiencies and lack of options in the actual physical kit. The rules are fine, the rules have the options. Not the kit.

So, you're wrong.

Unless you're saying "GW should make the rules reflect what comes in the box of models, and then limit the rules", which is quite honestly one of the most absurd statements I've ever read on this post and there's been some doozies that got the red-text or erased from existence.

Yeah, the problem about this release is pretty much that it isn't an improvement compared to the old Terminators. Yes, we finally got a Combiplasma, but that's it, really. And kitbashing only goes so far when you don't have additional arms that even 3rd party producers don't make. FW and Kromlech make Chain axes, but where do you get the arms?

I've been wondering for years where Chaos players got enough arms from to equip their Terminators all with Combiweapons, but I guess some people don't magnetize like me but stick to one loadout.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:
Name calling doesnt provide anything worthwhile to the discussion. Kinda lame that's how you went. Seems to me that you may have some deep ceded issues. I dont need to resort to name calling, your words speak more of you than you think.

ok autocorrect, my bad*Deep-seeded* or deep-seated* issues. Yeah, he was wrong for calling you a name, but before you get snarky back with him you might wanna double-check the words you're using. So, something about words speaking more of you than you think or whatever.

Racerguy180 wrote:
It's really a rules issue, not one with the actual kit. I seem to remember that GW makes the models first and rules second.

No, the issue is with the actual kit. People are literally pointing out the deficiencies and lack of options in the actual physical kit. The rules are fine, the rules have the options. Not the kit.

So, you're wrong.

Unless you're saying "GW should make the rules reflect what comes in the box of models, and then limit the rules", which is quite honestly one of the most absurd statements I've ever read on this post and there's been some doozies that got the red-text or erased from existence.

I have not said anything derogatory about someone with a differing opinion. If you can tell me why the kit is somehow different to what the squad is equipped with as a base and then explain how this is a model problem and not the rules writers who wrote down what you can take for the squads, I will gladly concede the point.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I've been wondering for years where Chaos players got enough arms from to equip their Terminators all with Combiweapons, but I guess some people don't magnetize like me but stick to one loadout.

One of the gripes I've heard about magnets is if your models are stored close together in foam, and the case shifts around- the magnets will start grabbing each other and that's how bits and pieces get chipped. I travel, so I can tell you it'll happen.

I don't magnetize because I rarely want to swap out my loadouts often enough. Usually the way I build them is the way I always intend to use them, and I will go and buy another kit if I want another loadout- because I'll usually do something different in terms of conversion and customizing for the second set. I mean, a good, simple example is Reivers- two squads with different heads, weapon options, and other stuff glued on to make one look more like "shooty tactical guys" and the others to look like "Vicious stabby guys".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Racerguy180 wrote:
I have not said anything derogatory about someone with a differing opinion. If you can tell me why the kit is somehow different to what the squad is equipped with as a base and then explain how this is a model problem and not the rules writers who wrote down what you can take for the squads, I will gladly concede the point.

The squad as a base? Do you mean "on the box"?

If you're telling me that all kits should be what's shown on the box cover photo- an image designed to showcase the array of different things in the kit itself- and that's it... then I'm going to tell you that you're probably the only person in this hobby that feels that way, I can't promise that but I get the feeling we'd have to look really, really hard to find someone who agrees with you.

If you're saying that it's a problem with the rules, because they should have changed the rules to limit the options for Terminators based on the limitations in the new kit- then I'm probably going to also have to say, I think you're one of the very few people with this opinion.

So apparently tactical squads shouldn't be able to take power axes, lascannons, etc- right? Guard veterans shouldn't even be a thing, because no one has shotguns. Riiiiight.

I'm not going to disparage you or call you names. But I'm going to say that the points you're making are so absurd at this point, I'm almost convinced you're trolling. There's no way you actually reached this conclusion with a straight face. April Fool's, right?

If you don't see the issue here, then I don't know what to say. Because it'll violate the hell out of rule #1, and unlike your thoughts on this kit- very few people will disagree with the statement, it'll just be rude.