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I'm very lucky because in our club we're quite positive player, so I haven't to worry much about mix maxing units, or being too casual or too competitive.

However, apart from the initial rush, in order to learn the new rules and understand the logic of the new edition, I'm much more interested in Apocalypse now because the standard game is strategically shallow, and I play mostly to showcase my model and to motivate myself to finish painting my collection.

I haven't bought a single new kit in 8th (I promised to myself that I will finish my painting queque first), but more because nothing that I like was released for my armies, and a few model that I like belongs to other armies.

Also, after the WHFB - AoS transition (and after a disappointing judgment of Kill Team - too little customizable and slightly boring) I simply don't have any faith in GW to produce a style of games that I like without forcing me to start collecting everything again from scratch (I.e. Adeptus Titanicus).

Apocalypse really is the last shot, otherwise I'll simply continue to play with my friend caring less and less of new release, rules etc.

 greatbigtree wrote:
For myself, the constant release of NEW rules has driven me off. Without a reasonably costed resource for all the new rules, I never know what people will bring, the new not-formations, points changes, and rule changes.

I’m overwhelmed by the “optional” rules and sources. It’s moving too fast for my time commitment to this game, for me to keep up.

My group used to play once a week, or every other week. I honestly can’t remember the last time I played, and I just like Kill Team better. Faster, less bloat. Feels like a real and proper game to me, where 40k feels more and more like push models, roll dice... who cares? You / I got first turn and despite flooding the table with terrain the player with first turn is clearly going to win based on the results by middle of turn 3. Good game, wanna play something else?

Kill Team also has "optional" splatbooks.

 Elbows wrote:
Personally? Yes. I really enjoy the core concept of 8th, but as codices and armies evolve it's become far too much "gotcha" hammer for me.

 auticus wrote:
Its nothing like the type of wargame I wish to play and to top it off, playing in a narrative way is difficult with the extreme push for competitive gaming 24/7, so I gave it a hard pass.

I think these two comments sum up my feelings on how bad 40K has become, or how I have out grown the appeal of 40k... guess it had to happen some day, since I have been playing since 2nd edition. I had high hopes for the new Apoc game, as that has some wonderful rules, Alternative Activation, Orders, Damage phase. However the closeness that forces deploy from each other limits the manourves and makes the game a dog pile in the middle. Not that fun, and not too tactical.

I'll be honest, after seeing this week is going to be renegade knights I'm a little disappointed that I can't get that new tank or any of the other Vanguard units yet

No gak, BCB. But the rules for all factions are now contained in what, 4 sources? And before the game my opponents and I agree on what sources we’re using. In general, core rules plus Elites. So for my time commitment, I’m ok with using two sources that contain the rules for all factions.

Truthfully, I find the expansions to be money gouging. Could Elites have been added to the core rules for the extra 25 pages of key content? Yes. But I knew that was coming from the get go.

And a game of Kill Team is comparable to a game of magic. Get crushed in half an hour? No big deal, shuffle terrain and play 4 more games tonight.

40k takes to much time to resolve the effect of who won the roll to go first. I have yet to play a game of 40k that made me want to play a second game, even if one player concedes at the middle of the second turn. It just doesn’t have my passion.

8th Edition has seen an absolute explosion of players. There wee LITERALLY 30% more players in the ITC last year than the year before. One year.

More to the point, I think people are making it out to sound as if there is just this utopian game out there that is just "so much more the standard", but I don't see it. And I play a TON of games.

The bitchfest is fun and all, but here's the bottom line: These are absolutely epic models, the art has ONLY gotten better and there are rules to play with therm? My mind is blown by it 15 years after I started.

I don't know what the bitching and complaining accomplishes but I know this: It's the most popular and still playable game there is of its kind, hands down. No one has ever even come close to approaching its popularity and there is no utopian game system that simply cant be beat. I consider Flames of War a slightly better game but to hear some of you talk about it, theres something out there several orders of magnitude better that you'r comparing it to. Good luck playing more of it, and you should. Because if this level if bitching is any indicator, and you're not just exxagerating your point for some dishonest reason, then I think spending much time on Dakkadakka makes about as much sense as continuing to play 40K at all. Exactly as much sense, in fact.