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Made in ca
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought





Heart of Fadeless Splendour

You don't have to.

Making you happy isn't why GW exists. Making money is. Whether you're happy or not is irrelevant as long as you keep buying.

Which you will, if you play the probabilities. Everyone loves to moan, few people actually stop buying; which is the only protest that has ANY sort of meaning to GW.

The onus on shareholder return is, IMO, a regrettable state of affairs and will be one of the first exhibits admitted by prosecutors in our inevitable trial at alien hands but that doesn't mean we can simply pretend it doesn't exist.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/02 20:15:23


The Fall of Kronstaat IV
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,854pts painted (updated 16/07/19)
Волшебная Сказка | Volshebnaya Skazka | A Fairy Tale (updated 08/05/19, ep8 - Звезда | Zvezda | The Star)
Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 16/07/19)

You know, if there's one thing I've learnt from being in the Army, it's never ignore a pooh-pooh. I knew a Major who got pooh-poohed, made the mistake of ignoring the pooh-pooh. He pooh-poohed it! Fatal error! 'Cause it turned out all along that the soldier who pooh-poohed him had been pooh-poohing a lot of other officers who pooh-poohed their pooh-poohs. In the end, we had to disband the regiment.

 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




 Excommunicatus wrote:
You don't have to.

Making you happy isn't why GW exists. Making money is. Whether you're happy or not is irrelevant as long as you keep buying.

Which you will, if you play the probabilities. Everyone loves to moan, few people actually stop buying; which is the only protest that has ANY sort of meaning to GW.

The onus on shareholder return is, IMO, a regrettable state of affairs and will be one of the first exhibits admitted by prosecutors in our inevitable trial at alien hands but that doesn't mean we can simply pretend it doesn't exist.


I haven't bought anything from Games Workshop in over a year. Though trying to argue strictly from Games Workshop's Business POV kinda misses the point.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



United Kingdom

This is very much like the old GW. I thought they'd learned their lesson. Now obviously we can all understand that inflation means that in order to maintain your profit margins you need to increase prices at times. It is how you do this that impacts on the likely outcomes. By simply issuing a blanket price rise GW seem to be trying to bait their fanbase, cause a big fuss and get accused of being rip offs. Of course, the guy who argues "In 1990 they cost..." is missing the 30 years of inflation since, but I think a blanket increase is a very odd way to do this. For ages they seemed to do their increases by simply releasing more expensive kits and naturally raising prices as they cycled in new kits. I'm not sure of the reasoning for increasing prices on the old kits now. They had not been suffering any major adverse impact on profits from those prices.

If I was a betting man I think they have thought something like "we've rebuilt good will to a large extent, so we can now do a price rise. We'll get it over in one go to just get the online moaning out of the way in one quick and noisy go".

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

I continue to feel bad for anyone who would even try to get into this hobby. It was expensive before, now it's literally the choice between this and a moderate army, or other more useful items, like a computer, tablet hell entertainment system. All of which are more key to modern day life then some plastic army men.

Well, I'm wondering that GW still makes money with plastic armies.
Seems outdated if you consider some contenders for personal entertainment like computer, tablet and whatnot.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in ie
Missionary On A Mission





GW have a round of price increases every year. I don't know why anyone is surprised.

   
Made in us
Lit By the Flames of Prospero





land of 10k taxes

The greed is kicking in again. It can't be all the cheep labor the UK keeps importing.
2008: AoBR, 5th ed, $50USD yielded 10tac, 5 terms, dread, cpt, 20 boys, 5 nobs, boss and 3 deffcopters.
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






 wuestenfux wrote:
I continue to feel bad for anyone who would even try to get into this hobby. It was expensive before, now it's literally the choice between this and a moderate army, or other more useful items, like a computer, tablet hell entertainment system. All of which are more key to modern day life then some plastic army men.

Well, I'm wondering that GW still makes money with plastic armies.
Seems outdated if you consider some contenders for personal entertainment like computer, tablet and whatnot.


Honestly, I think this is actually "why" physical non-internet based hobbies still exist.

Painting and table-top gaming has always been a my form of relaxation or escape (well maybe not the gaming part, I lose frequently). But it is my favourite time to put my phone in my pocket (unless I'm taking pics) and not look at a screen for 3-4 hours. I don't text or use my phone at all, and it's similar when I'm painting. It's far away from my computer where I spend too much time doing other work stuff.

I think they're going to have a rude awakening in the future though. Their prices are so out of control in many instances that you won't find many young teenagers or kids getting into it. I spent way too much time in GW stores in my college days (my best friend and roommate was a manager of one) and it was something we always enjoyed. Watching the young kids run into the store, super excited about their first dreadnought or squad that they painted (horribly!). Playing 150-200 point games because that's what they owned, and we'd always oblige them. Back then though you could still buy blisters for $7-15 depending on the mini, so a lot of the young kids would buy one or two blisters with their meager funds.

This GW store was in a large shopping mall, so it was often like geek-daycare where parents would give their kids $10 and drop them off to sit and paint/play while they went shopping. This probably wasn't a massive source of income, but it was setting up future buyers/players. The parents were the primary retail target at the time (circa 2003-2005). GW had implicitly stated the goal was large $150-300 purchases up front from willing parents.

I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 Elbows wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
I continue to feel bad for anyone who would even try to get into this hobby. It was expensive before, now it's literally the choice between this and a moderate army, or other more useful items, like a computer, tablet hell entertainment system. All of which are more key to modern day life then some plastic army men.

Well, I'm wondering that GW still makes money with plastic armies.
Seems outdated if you consider some contenders for personal entertainment like computer, tablet and whatnot.


Honestly, I think this is actually "why" physical non-internet based hobbies still exist.

Painting and table-top gaming has always been a my form of relaxation or escape (well maybe not the gaming part, I lose frequently). But it is my favourite time to put my phone in my pocket (unless I'm taking pics) and not look at a screen for 3-4 hours. I don't text or use my phone at all, and it's similar when I'm painting. It's far away from my computer where I spend too much time doing other work stuff.

I think they're going to have a rude awakening in the future though. Their prices are so out of control in many instances that you won't find many young teenagers or kids getting into it. I spent way too much time in GW stores in my college days (my best friend and roommate was a manager of one) and it was something we always enjoyed. Watching the young kids run into the store, super excited about their first dreadnought or squad that they painted (horribly!). Playing 150-200 point games because that's what they owned, and we'd always oblige them. Back then though you could still buy blisters for $7-15 depending on the mini, so a lot of the young kids would buy one or two blisters with their meager funds.

This GW store was in a large shopping mall, so it was often like geek-daycare where parents would give their kids $10 and drop them off to sit and paint/play while they went shopping. This probably wasn't a massive source of income, but it was setting up future buyers/players. The parents were the primary retail target at the time (circa 2003-2005). GW had implicitly stated the goal was large $150-300 purchases up front from willing parents.

I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

I agree.

I was one of those young brats hanging around the mall when our parents wanted us out of the house. Would wander into the local hobby shop and browse around. One day we saw the LotR starter set and the rest was history. We pooled our pocket change and bought a $40(!!!) starter set that included a rule book, terrain, dice, and two sizable forces. We spent every weekend after that playing and painting at the shop, spending our spare change to buy a new box whenever we saved enough. Eventually we transferred to 40k as we got older and had jobs to afford armies.

Nowadays, I see families with kids and teens walk into the GW shop. The kids are often super excited to see the game played and look at the models. Then the parents ask about pricing and they nope the fuk right out of the store. I hardly ever see anyone younger than mid 20s actually playing in the shop these days.
   
Made in us
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot







 Elbows wrote:
I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.


Yeah, when I am around some of my extended family's kids I kinda want to break out my Kill Team stuff as I am sure they would get a kick out given the video games they like. At the same time, I know for a fact their parents couldn't really afford even a couple of Troop boxes to make a modest kill team and mostly certainly can't afford even a small full 40k army. So I never bring it up and just play whatever video game (save the Battle Royale types) the kids are interested instead.

Maybe it is because I was a kid of the 80's and we were all living in a material world with material girls and such, but I don't know if action figures or other such toys are all that popular anymore with kids. I can't say I remember seeing kids playing with them much, but then again, I am not really around kids much and don't usually care what they are up to. I just seems like kids today have all their entertainment wrapped up in electronics which I don't know if that is a good thing. Sure, the commercialism marketed to me in the 1980s wasn't great either, but I think it was a little better when me and my friends imagined the latest military operation with our G.I. Joes or had pretend battles with out transformers teams. And we usually played outside at least getting a little bit of exercise. I just don't know how much imagination kids are doing these days since modern games don't have nearly the gaps that 4-bit or even 8-bit games did. But this is probably me getting to be an old fogey trading the 'comic books and cartoons will rot your brain' with 'videa games and smart phones will rot yer brains.'

   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






This will end very poorly for GW (a lot more than it had ever done in the past). We're so used to GW fan boyz/girlz keeping GW afloat but in 2019 40k does not have the product stability and monopoly it used to have. Back in the early 2000s when the original price hike nearly killed the company they survived because people had dedicated enough resources into the company that they couldn't leave (and there wasn'tmuch to leave too). However, in 2019 we all have so many other "nerd" content providers fighting for our cash and manynof them do the same or similar to GW but better and cheaper. In addition, we seem to all have our thumbs in all the pies now adays so if one pie goes rotten it's very easy for us to send it off to the ol' Ebay market stall whil we stick our thumb in another pie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Isengard wrote:
This is very much like the old GW. I thought they'd learned their lesson. Now obviously we can all understand that inflation means that in order to maintain your profit margins you need to increase prices at times. It is how you do this that impacts on the likely outcomes. By simply issuing a blanket price rise GW seem to be trying to bait their fanbase, cause a big fuss and get accused of being rip offs. Of course, the guy who argues "In 1990 they cost..." is missing the 30 years of inflation since, but I think a blanket increase is a very odd way to do this. For ages they seemed to do their increases by simply releasing more expensive kits and naturally raising prices as they cycled in new kits. I'm not sure of the reasoning for increasing prices on the old kits now. They had not been suffering any major adverse impact on profits from those prices.

If I was a betting man I think they have thought something like "we've rebuilt good will to a large extent, so we can now do a price rise. We'll get it over in one go to just get the online moaning out of the way in one quick and noisy go".


The inflation argument also has the problem of scale of production (in 2019 the scalemof the production is massive in comparison to 90s GW yet they're still more expensive when they should be cheaper or similar priced). Plus, it doesn't take into account production costs going down from technology changes and stuff. Which has all saved GW massive amount of money in the past few years but has only encouraged them to make cheaper models for a more expensive price.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/04 00:26:10


 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

This is just one branch into the future - kids are priced out and the base of 30-40 years old is vanishing.
Seems reasonable, but the situation in our gaming group is different.
Players around 20 years old enter the hobby and the older guys are still there and dont show the slightest inclination to move away.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




 Excommunicatus wrote:
You don't have to.

Making you happy isn't why GW exists. Making money is. Whether you're happy or not is irrelevant as long as you keep buying.

Which you will, if you play the probabilities. Everyone loves to moan, few people actually stop buying; which is the only protest that has ANY sort of meaning to GW.

The onus on shareholder return is, IMO, a regrettable state of affairs and will be one of the first exhibits admitted by prosecutors in our inevitable trial at alien hands but that doesn't mean we can simply pretend it doesn't exist.


Making players happy tends to be a good idea when you sell games. I am actually quite happy to pay high for things, if i am happy with what i get. And i have only buy a few things for kill team, but not happy enough to keep buying anything for that now.
I do not think there prices are fair for what they offer, If there game was better maybe i would be happy paying the close to extreme prices.

When you as a company ask so much money for your game, you better be putting in some quality effort.
   
Made in us
Revving Ravenwing Biker




Hanoi, Vietnam.

 wuestenfux wrote:
I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

This is just one branch into the future - kids are priced out and the base of 30-40 years old is vanishing.
Seems reasonable, but the situation in our gaming group is different.
Players around 20 years old enter the hobby and the older guys are still there and dont show the slightest inclination to move away.
I wonder is that more of a reflection of Germany as a whole rather than just your gaming group. I'm not completely clued in the current economic status of Germany, but aren't you guys pretty much smashing it at the moment? My point being that in a strong economy with an enriched workforce and plenty of disposable income, Games-Workshop probably won't see too many sales drop off following a price rise, but in places where money's more tight, it probably won't take much for consumers to find something more affordable to buy with their hard earned.
   
Made in ch
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





 Ginjitzu wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

This is just one branch into the future - kids are priced out and the base of 30-40 years old is vanishing.
Seems reasonable, but the situation in our gaming group is different.
Players around 20 years old enter the hobby and the older guys are still there and dont show the slightest inclination to move away.
I wonder is that more of a reflection of Germany as a whole rather than just your gaming group. I'm not completely clued in the current economic status of Germany, but aren't you guys pretty much smashing it at the moment? My point being that in a strong economy with an enriched workforce and plenty of disposable income, Games-Workshop probably won't see too many sales drop off following a price rise, but in places where money's more tight, it probably won't take much for consumers to find something more affordable to buy with their hard earned.


If that were true, which it isn't, switzerland would be a gigantic relative market, altough the only Shop near me stated that ever since 7th the ammount of sales of 40k didn't nearly reach the levels beforehand.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost.) 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 Ginjitzu wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

This is just one branch into the future - kids are priced out and the base of 30-40 years old is vanishing.
Seems reasonable, but the situation in our gaming group is different.
Players around 20 years old enter the hobby and the older guys are still there and dont show the slightest inclination to move away.
I wonder is that more of a reflection of Germany as a whole rather than just your gaming group. I'm not completely clued in the current economic status of Germany, but aren't you guys pretty much smashing it at the moment? My point being that in a strong economy with an enriched workforce and plenty of disposable income, Games-Workshop probably won't see too many sales drop off following a price rise, but in places where money's more tight, it probably won't take much for consumers to find something more affordable to buy with their hard earned.

40k is alive and kickin' in Germany these days.
For instance, the Regensburg masters holds 44 places (July 2019) but is hopelessly overbooked (77).
And the German economy has almost full employment.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Revving Ravenwing Biker




Hanoi, Vietnam.

Not Online!!! wrote:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

This is just one branch into the future - kids are priced out and the base of 30-40 years old is vanishing.
Seems reasonable, but the situation in our gaming group is different.
Players around 20 years old enter the hobby and the older guys are still there and dont show the slightest inclination to move away.
I wonder is that more of a reflection of Germany as a whole rather than just your gaming group. I'm not completely clued in the current economic status of Germany, but aren't you guys pretty much smashing it at the moment? My point being that in a strong economy with an enriched workforce and plenty of disposable income, Games-Workshop probably won't see too many sales drop off following a price rise, but in places where money's more tight, it probably won't take much for consumers to find something more affordable to buy with their hard earned.


If that were true, which it isn't, switzerland would be a gigantic relative market, altough the only Shop near me stated that ever since 7th the ammount of sales of 40k didn't nearly reach the levels beforehand.
Perhaps the Swiss just aren't interested in Warhammer? I'm sure there are also cultural reasons why some hobbies are more popular than others. In Ireland, for instance, which is a generally wealthy country, Warhammer always struggled to catch on in my town; the Irish, it seems, are only interested in football, Gaelic football, video games and drinking. Anything else is looked upon as suspicious and outlandish. Whereas here in Vietnam - a country that's only recently begun to develop a middle class, the hobby is burgeoning - at least in the two major cities - seemingly because the Vietnamese rarely judge each other on their hobbies.

Besides, if the Swiss outdoors are as beautiful as they look, and I lived there, I wouldn't be bothering with this nerdy gak either.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/04 10:26:07


 
   
Made in ch
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





 Ginjitzu wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

This is just one branch into the future - kids are priced out and the base of 30-40 years old is vanishing.
Seems reasonable, but the situation in our gaming group is different.
Players around 20 years old enter the hobby and the older guys are still there and dont show the slightest inclination to move away.
I wonder is that more of a reflection of Germany as a whole rather than just your gaming group. I'm not completely clued in the current economic status of Germany, but aren't you guys pretty much smashing it at the moment? My point being that in a strong economy with an enriched workforce and plenty of disposable income, Games-Workshop probably won't see too many sales drop off following a price rise, but in places where money's more tight, it probably won't take much for consumers to find something more affordable to buy with their hard earned.


If that were true, which it isn't, switzerland would be a gigantic relative market, altough the only Shop near me stated that ever since 7th the ammount of sales of 40k didn't nearly reach the levels beforehand.
Perhaps the Swiss just aren't interested in Warhammer? I'm sure there are also cultural reasons why some hobbies are more popular than others. In Ireland, for instance, which is a generally wealthy country, Warhammer always struggled to catch on in my town; the Irish, it seems, are only interested in football, Gaelic football, video games and drinking. Anything else is looked upon as suspicious and outlandish. Whereas here in Vietnam - a country that's only recently begun to develop a middle class, the hobby is burgeoning - at least in the two major cities - seemingly because the Vietnamese rarely judge each other on their hobbies.

Besides, if the Swiss outdoors are as beautiful as they look, and I lived there, I wouldn't be bothering with this nerdy gak either.


ehh the cultural argument doesn't really work. and if you have lived a decent time here you would realise that beyond the political cultures and belives (e.g direct democraticy, legtimacy before legality and just in general a distaste for homogenic structures.) that under the line you still have an alpine southern germanic infront of you or southern french, or northern italian.

then again your average worker in switzerland has to make do with a lot less then the statistics state. (i wish i had the statistically 250'000 CHF on my bank account..... ) but it isn't as if the german state would not have similarly inflated statistics.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost.) 
   
Made in us
Revving Ravenwing Biker




Hanoi, Vietnam.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Spoiler:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

This is just one branch into the future - kids are priced out and the base of 30-40 years old is vanishing.
Seems reasonable, but the situation in our gaming group is different.
Players around 20 years old enter the hobby and the older guys are still there and dont show the slightest inclination to move away.
I wonder is that more of a reflection of Germany as a whole rather than just your gaming group. I'm not completely clued in the current economic status of Germany, but aren't you guys pretty much smashing it at the moment? My point being that in a strong economy with an enriched workforce and plenty of disposable income, Games-Workshop probably won't see too many sales drop off following a price rise, but in places where money's more tight, it probably won't take much for consumers to find something more affordable to buy with their hard earned.


If that were true, which it isn't, switzerland would be a gigantic relative market, altough the only Shop near me stated that ever since 7th the ammount of sales of 40k didn't nearly reach the levels beforehand.
Perhaps the Swiss just aren't interested in Warhammer? I'm sure there are also cultural reasons why some hobbies are more popular than others. In Ireland, for instance, which is a generally wealthy country, Warhammer always struggled to catch on in my town; the Irish, it seems, are only interested in football, Gaelic football, video games and drinking. Anything else is looked upon as suspicious and outlandish. Whereas here in Vietnam - a country that's only recently begun to develop a middle class, the hobby is burgeoning - at least in the two major cities - seemingly because the Vietnamese rarely judge each other on their hobbies.

Besides, if the Swiss outdoors are as beautiful as they look, and I lived there, I wouldn't be bothering with this nerdy gak either.


ehh the cultural argument doesn't really work. and if you have lived a decent time here you would realise that beyond the political cultures and belives (e.g direct democraticy, legtimacy before legality and just in general a distaste for homogenic structures.) that under the line you still have an alpine southern germanic infront of you or southern french, or northern italian.

then again your average worker in switzerland has to make do with a lot less then the statistics state. (i wish i had the statistically 250'000 CHF on my bank account..... ) but it isn't as if the german state would not have similarly inflated statistics.
So if neither economics, nor culture can explain why Warhammer is popular in some places, but not in others, what can explain it?
   
Made in us
Rogue





Pretty happy that the extent of my GW involvement at this point is Titanicus. Expensive? Intensive. Incentive? Explosive. Hotel? Trivago.
   
Made in gb
Screaming Shining Spear






With average inflation the price per marine was roughly £2.50 in 1987.

So in 32 years there's been about £1 increase per marine broadly speaking.

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Longtime Dakkanaut






 Argive wrote:
With average inflation the price per marine was roughly £2.50 in 1987.

So in 32 years there's been about £1 increase per marine broadly speaking.


Yeah but those marines were in a more expensive material and hand made as opposed to mass produced plastic. If you want to compare those marines then the odd remaining metal marine is around £15 so an 500% increase.

The box of 30 plastic marines for £9.99 I think would be the correct comparison and that goes a lot worse for GW be cause while £24.50 sounds ok that was for 30minis with a lot of options. The best case for GW is 3 tac boxes for £75 but in fairness they should be compared to primaris the most modern marines and that’s £105 a 300%+ rise

Also none of that takes into account the economy of scale that GW can bring to bare now or that I can almost guarantee that outside of the upper management that there wages have not even gone up anywhere close to inflation but let’s check. Oh my god i’m shocked I tell you shocked that despite the massively above inflation price increases that there salaries are massively under the increase in inflation unless of course all there store managers are on £24k a year, I can give you a hint to that question nope

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/05 06:31:17


Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
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Dakka Veteran





 Argive wrote:
With average inflation the price per marine was roughly £2.50 in 1987.

So in 32 years there's been about £1 increase per marine broadly speaking.


I don't know where you've got that cost.
I bought several of the box sets back then and 30 models were around £15 for plastics, blisters were around £3 for 3 lead models, this included captains, librarians etc. In fact I purchased Leman Russ and his two wolves for about that price too. No one's saying todays models aren't superior, that GW's overheads haven't increased or even that they shouldn't make a profit but things have gone too far with regards their pricing.
   
Made in gb
Screaming Shining Spear






Im simply pointing out out what the cost was per marine in 1987 based on bank of england inflation calculator.

You could argue that the price has gone up along with the level of detail etc. or spin it however you want because reasons.

40k has always and always will be expensive.

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Dakka Veteran





 Argive wrote:
Im simply pointing out out what the cost was per marine in 1987 based on bank of england inflation calculator.

You could argue that the price has gone up along with the level of detail etc. or spin it however you want because reasons.

40k has always and always will be expensive.


My point is your price per marine for 1987 is incorrect. And I don't do spin, reasons or not.
   
Made in gb
Screaming Shining Spear






 Huron black heart wrote:
 Argive wrote:
With average inflation the price per marine was roughly £2.50 in 1987.

So in 32 years there's been about £1 increase per marine broadly speaking.


I don't know where you've got that cost.
I bought several of the box sets back then and 30 models were around £15 for plastics, blisters were around £3 for 3 lead models, this included captains, librarians etc. In fact I purchased Leman Russ and his two wolves for about that price too. No one's saying todays models aren't superior, that GW's overheads haven't increased or even that they shouldn't make a profit but things have gone too far with regards their pricing.


Cost per marine was 75p in the very infancy days of RT in 86-89
http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/c100sms/index.htm

Use bank of england inflation calculator and you get a rough cost what the original way back marines were. Also take into account an increase in VAT to 17.5 in 1991.
These are pretty rough figues and the price has creeped up obviously.
But so has level of details arguably. However the options currently available in kits are lacking.

Its always been a very expensive hobby. I defintetly could not afford it properly as a kid. Its an upper market middle class hobby. The price increace is within tolerance of the target demographic...Its business.
I defo dont pay retail... Dont know whay you would unless you ahd no other options.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/07/05 06:28:32


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Argive wrote:
 Huron black heart wrote:
 Argive wrote:
With average inflation the price per marine was roughly £2.50 in 1987.

So in 32 years there's been about £1 increase per marine broadly speaking.


I don't know where you've got that cost.
I bought several of the box sets back then and 30 models were around £15 for plastics, blisters were around £3 for 3 lead models, this included captains, librarians etc. In fact I purchased Leman Russ and his two wolves for about that price too. No one's saying todays models aren't superior, that GW's overheads haven't increased or even that they shouldn't make a profit but things have gone too far with regards their pricing.


Cost per marine was 75p in the very infancy days of RT in 86-89
http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/c100sms/index.htm

Use bank of england inflation calculator and you get a rough cost what the original way back marines were. Also take into account an increase in VAT to 17.5 in 1991.
These are pretty rough figues and the price has creeped up obviously.
But so has level of details arguably. However the options currently available in kits are lacking.

Its always been a very expensive hobby. I defintetly could not afford it properly as a kid. Its an upper market middle class hobby. The price increace is within tolerance of the target demographic...Its business.
I defo dont pay retail... Dont know whay you would unless you ahd no other options.



Please see my above post as yours is either intentionally or unintentionally deceptive.

Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 Argive wrote:
 Huron black heart wrote:
 Argive wrote:
With average inflation the price per marine was roughly £2.50 in 1987.

So in 32 years there's been about £1 increase per marine broadly speaking.


I don't know where you've got that cost.
I bought several of the box sets back then and 30 models were around £15 for plastics, blisters were around £3 for 3 lead models, this included captains, librarians etc. In fact I purchased Leman Russ and his two wolves for about that price too. No one's saying todays models aren't superior, that GW's overheads haven't increased or even that they shouldn't make a profit but things have gone too far with regards their pricing.


Cost per marine was 75p in the very infancy days of RT in 86-89
http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/c100sms/index.htm

Use bank of england inflation calculator and you get a rough cost what the original way back marines were. Also take into account an increase in VAT to 17.5 in 1991.
These are pretty rough figues and the price has creeped up obviously.
But so has level of details arguably. However the options currently available in kits are lacking.

Its always been a very expensive hobby. I defintetly could not afford it properly as a kid. Its an upper market middle class hobby. The price increace is within tolerance of the target demographic...Its business.
I defo dont pay retail... Dont know whay you would unless you ahd no other options.



This is coming up a lot, don't pay retail and we'll accept the cost. But surely you realise your third party seller of choice is also hit by every price rise? I don't pay retail and even at -20% it's now too expensive. And I agree that it has both always been expensive and a non essential hobby item, but were do we call the line with their pricing?
That's several posts from me this morning, I'm meant to be at work and better get to : )
   
Made in gb
Screaming Shining Spear






SeanDrake wrote:
 Argive wrote:
 Huron black heart wrote:
 Argive wrote:
With average inflation the price per marine was roughly £2.50 in 1987.

So in 32 years there's been about £1 increase per marine broadly speaking.


I don't know where you've got that cost.
I bought several of the box sets back then and 30 models were around £15 for plastics, blisters were around £3 for 3 lead models, this included captains, librarians etc. In fact I purchased Leman Russ and his two wolves for about that price too. No one's saying todays models aren't superior, that GW's overheads haven't increased or even that they shouldn't make a profit but things have gone too far with regards their pricing.


Cost per marine was 75p in the very infancy days of RT in 86-89
http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/c100sms/index.htm

Use bank of england inflation calculator and you get a rough cost what the original way back marines were. Also take into account an increase in VAT to 17.5 in 1991.
These are pretty rough figues and the price has creeped up obviously.
But so has level of details arguably. However the options currently available in kits are lacking.

Its always been a very expensive hobby. I defintetly could not afford it properly as a kid. Its an upper market middle class hobby. The price increace is within tolerance of the target demographic...Its business.
I defo dont pay retail... Dont know whay you would unless you ahd no other options.



Please see my above post as yours is either intentionally or unintentionally deceptive.


Edit - No Im not trying to be deceptive. I explained my logic and methodology.

I concluded that regardles, GW is riddicously expensive and always has been.
Its the point im trying to make. It has NEVER been a cheap hobby.

You have anomalies like battleforce boxes from 3rd party retailers equating to to buying a wraith knight and got £100 worth of models for free.... So theres that also. How do you factor that in.

It is grossly overcosted hobby for raw materials involved... I dont think anyone is going to try argue that! haha

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/07/05 06:54:34


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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





redboi wrote:
Breton wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, these increases are massive in part.
And then they want new players to enter the game.
But I guess plastic is pretty expensive and a hard Brexit is looming when Boris J. is taking over.


They feel massive. But only because they're coming all at once. If GW had incrementally upped the price every year, as opposed to a bigger up every several years most people wouldn't even notice it. Instead of realizing how many kits they bought over the past 10 years for $5-10 less than they should have, they're paying attention to yesterday's $40 instead of today's $45.

Say you buy Model Kit A every year. Starting at $20 going up $1 every year, and the price goes up $1 every year to a final price of $24. over 5 years you'll spend - 20, 21, 22, 23, and 24, or $110. If they raise the price $5 every 5 years you'll spend 20+20+20+20+25 = $105. But you're going to notice that $5 a lot more than that $10. You're thinking about how many $5's you're going to need for the future, now how many $5's you didn't pay the previous 5 years.


I don't know of any other companies that regularly increase the price of old merchandise. It's normally the opposite, prices go down over time.

Their investment into those kits is more than paid off at this point its almost pure profit


Gas/petrol goes up while its in the tank under the gas station is just one example. Most stock on the shelf goes up when the cost of replacing it in the warehouse goes up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 FeindusMaximus wrote:
The greed is kicking in again. It can't be all the cheep labor the UK keeps importing.
2008: AoBR, 5th ed, $50USD yielded 10tac, 5 terms, dread, cpt, 20 boys, 5 nobs, boss and 3 deffcopters.


The irony calling asking prices you don't want to pay greed is amusing. Why are they greedy for wanting more money to sell their stuff, but you're not for wanting to buy more of their stuff with less of your money?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/05 07:05:10


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Shrieking Traitor Sentinel Pilot




USA

As someone under the age of 18, no, I can't afford GW's prices. Especially not with these price raises. Could I get a job and afford some? Sure, I just wouldn't have any actual time to paint and play with them. Nor do my school work. GW's prices are very inaccessible to anyone under the age of 18, even kill team. Tis a shame, I've been very excited at the potential lost and damned release that are coming up. I've got some 40k models, mostly Tau, I'm planning on selling them (It's an SC and FW box), because there's just not a reasonable point that I can justify spending more on this game, when I still haven't played a single match (Except for online), and I've been putting every penny towards it for 2 years.

Now, I have no argument to make on weather GW's prices are reasonable or not, but what I can reasonably say is that most people under 18 aren't getting into this hobby. (Which sucks, as the models and lore are kick ass. No other game like it really.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/05 07:06:50


"For the dark gods!" - A traitor guardsmen, probably before being killed. 
   
 
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