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 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I kinda like these 'rumours' because at least it gives us something to discuss. The last rumour engine was so obviously AOS I don't know why they bothered to post it on the 40k pages and the news from GW is somewhat lacking.

We should have plenty of news from NoVA in just under two weeks.

 Ghaz wrote:
We should have plenty of news from NoVA in just under two weeks.

I'm gonna guess that the 40k "news" from Nova will be a meagre Sisters update, another vague video about the Psychic Awakening and a preview about an up and coming Primaris Lt.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
We should have plenty of news from NoVA in just under two weeks.

I'm gonna guess that the 40k "news" from Nova will be a meagre Sisters update, another vague video about the Psychic Awakening and a preview about an up and coming Primaris Lt.

Last year's preview shows that NoVA is one of the big reveals for the latter part of the year.

 Ghaz wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
We should have plenty of news from NoVA in just under two weeks.

I'm gonna guess that the 40k "news" from Nova will be a meagre Sisters update, another vague video about the Psychic Awakening and a preview about an up and coming Primaris Lt.

Last year's preview shows that NoVA is one of the big reveals for the latter part of the year.

Orktober still cuts me deep.

I get what you're trying to say of course I just have very low expectations of the previews this year.

Orks vs Tau boxed set? I doubt that. Have they ever made a boxed set that didn't include any Space Marines of some flavor let alone any Imperial faction at all?

 warboss wrote:
Orks vs Tau boxed set? I doubt that. Have they ever made a boxed set that didn't include any Space Marines of some flavor let alone any Imperial faction at all?

Forgebane says "Sup".

Yeah, it's "an Imperial faction" in there but you've added two caveats that you seem to know are going to be almost impossible to meet, given that we haven't really had an excessive amount of Battle Boxes that don't feature Marines "of some flavor"--one can point at what they've done for AoS and showcase that GW isn't really afraid of doing themed forces, even if it means avoiding the 'Flagship Factions'.

Looncurse: Sylvaneth versus Gloomspite Gitz
Carrion Empire: Flesh-Eater Courts versus Skaven

I'm still waiting for Sisters of Battle vs Necrons.
Maybe when they finally release SoB.

 warboss wrote:
Orks vs Tau boxed set? I doubt that. Have they ever made a boxed set that didn't include any Space Marines of some flavor let alone any Imperial faction at all?

There where these two sets

 Kanluwen wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Orks vs Tau boxed set? I doubt that. Have they ever made a boxed set that didn't include any Space Marines of some flavor let alone any Imperial faction at all?

Forgebane says "Sup".

Yeah, it's "an Imperial faction" in there but you've added two caveats that you seem to know are going to be almost impossible to meet, given that we haven't really had an excessive amount of Battle Boxes that don't feature Marines "of some flavor"--one can point at what they've done for AoS and showcase that GW isn't really afraid of doing themed forces, even if it means avoiding the 'Flagship Factions'.

I didn't make the caveat "almost impossible to meet"; GW did. I'm just pointing it out as the main reason I find the rumor unlikely. Regardless, thanks for the info as I didn't remember about Forgebane. Also, you seem to be inferring (incorrectly) that I'm somehow opposed to the idea on non-imperial boxed sets. As a Tau player and someone whose favorite faction used to be Orks back in 3rd edition (my username here is a hint), I'd love to see that type of box.

They did a daemons of Slaneesh vs khorne box recently, and even with some new models!
But yeah, that was a big thing seeing a non marine box

 warboss wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Orks vs Tau boxed set? I doubt that. Have they ever made a boxed set that didn't include any Space Marines of some flavor let alone any Imperial faction at all?

Forgebane says "Sup".

Yeah, it's "an Imperial faction" in there but you've added two caveats that you seem to know are going to be almost impossible to meet, given that we haven't really had an excessive amount of Battle Boxes that don't feature Marines "of some flavor"--one can point at what they've done for AoS and showcase that GW isn't really afraid of doing themed forces, even if it means avoiding the 'Flagship Factions'.

I didn't make the caveat "almost impossible to meet"; GW did. I'm just pointing it out as the main reason I find the rumor unlikely. Regardless, thanks for the info as I didn't remember about Forgebane. Also, you seem to be inferring (incorrectly) that I'm somehow opposed to the idea on non-imperial boxed sets. As a Tau player and someone whose favorite faction used to be Orks back in 3rd edition (my username here is a hint), I'd love to see that type of box.

It was less "inferring" that you're opposed to the idea, more that from your post it came across(to me) that you were implying GW doesn't do anything without their flagship factions. Sorry if I read your comment wrong--wasn't trying to pick a fight.

To put things in perspective?
We've had, on the 40k side alone:
-Knight Renegade
-Forgebane(AdMech vs Necrons)
-The current iteration of Kill Team's original box(Skitarii vs GSC) and Rogue Trader(Starstriders vs Gellerpox Infected)

AoS has seen two sets that don't feature hide nor hair of the Stormcast:
-Looncurse(Sylvaneth vs Gloomspite Gits)
-Carrion Empire(Flesh Eater Courts vs Skaven)
There haven't been as many "battleboxes" for AoS as 40k has seen however.

Both share the "Wrath and Rapture" set that Fayric mentioned(Slaanesh vs Khorne Daemons).
I, personally, also count the Stormcast Vanguard vs Nurgle Daemons boxed set as a "non-flagship faction" set--same as I do with Shadowspear. They both feature the flagship factions, but they're stuff that generally people didn't rate highly from the outset.

Also worth a mention for AoS?
The upcoming "Beastgrave" set for Warhammer Underworlds is devoid of Stormcast as well--and that's not even getting into WarCry, where the only thing Stormcast is the Vanguard Chamber stuff(which, again, was fairly unpopular until people started cheesing it with just the Raptors and their big ol' crossbows).

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
We should have plenty of news from NoVA in just under two weeks.

I'm gonna guess that the 40k "news" from Nova will be a meagre Sisters update, another vague video about the Psychic Awakening and a preview about an up and coming Primaris Lt.

I doubt there will be a sister update during Nova, unless they're ready to reveale a release date. GW has the sister bulletin for sister news

 Overread wrote:
Just to note I'm not saying I believe the rumours themselves, seraphon being phased out sounds utterly daft I agree. Just stating that the concept of a whiteboard of release details doesn't sound far-fetched in the least.


Right now the most I expect from Seraphon is a late this year or early next year new Battletome with endless spells and terrain and perhaps some adjustment of their lore. Ergo advancing them from Slaan summoning warriors into a race with lands, peoples etc... Which doesn't have to ret-con their lore; just present a change in how they operate and how the Slaan treat the other tiers of their people.

Only way I could imagine this would go down is that they are phasing down all resin Seraphon which is around 10+ units. If this was a true rumor(not saying it is) it could be that they saw that all resin seraphon was being discontinued and with the number of those kits it might seem like the entire line is being squatted when in it is only the resin being discontinued.

One thing about this rumor I'm inclined to believe: new World Eater sculpts in a starter box.

The trouble with rumors is people do hear about models but the company decides to change course before they are released.

There have been what - maybe 50 rumors of new Berzerkers? This is the first time I've heard about them paired with another faction, which is how GW seems to prefer kicking off refreshes.

OTOH, plans change. Heard a story about Shadowspear where the Venomcrawler and Greater Possessed were originally planned for their own kits.

Seraphon being phased out....hmmmm. Yeah, sounds like someone gave up or is seriously wishlisting. Resin disappearing is more likely but that's affecting every single faction at the moment, not just them. They do need some scale of rework - everyone harping on about their comprehensive range forgets how old their range is getting. Saurus, Skinks and Slann are pushing 3.5 Chaos age now and could probably do with an update of sorts to be brought on part with the BB sculpts and the sculpts from the Monster crews and riders.

Dark Elves diluting other factions? Noooo. Sorry. That's like telling us you're sticking Dwarves in the Fyreslayers range. Won't happen. They worked hard to give them their own identity and make a new range, they're not about to lazily drop other units into it because the creativity tap ran dry.

Sisters of Battle Box...feasible with the new range coming up but let's be real. If it does happen I'm not going to say this rumour was remotely accurate. Because the same rumour has cropped up...5-6 years now? Weren't we seeing this in 6th ed or just before as well? If anything this rumour strikes me as possibly being accurate due to the fact a broken clock is always right twice a day.

Eldar ditching Aspects altogether - hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. No. I'm pretty sure whoever tried to suggest that had Jes Goodwin show up in his office with several pointy implements. Aspects have literally been around since the dawn of time model and rangewise for 40k. Now...maybe they got confused and mistook the idea of a 'corsair' faction for this? That might make sense...but oddly enough seems to step on the Dark Eldar's whole schtick...

Seraphon getting squatted is not beyond possible, since was it Lost Legion released a full Aztec Lizardman army which is pretty amazing.

Remember Brett’s and Tk’s main crimes before there squatting other than slightly lower sales was being unable to be tm’d up the wazoo and competing/proxy models.

GW might just decided that Seraphon are a lost cause and move on to something else we’re there not competing wither better proxies and they could sue if they were.

SeanDrake wrote:
GW might just decided that Seraphon are a lost cause and move on to something else we’re there not competing wither better proxies and they could sue if they were.

Sue how? One can produce space marine and sigmarine count-as'es if one wants. All these name changes etc don't make 3rd parties life making count as models any harder.

tneva82 wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
GW might just decided that Seraphon are a lost cause and move on to something else we’re there not competing wither better proxies and they could sue if they were.

Sue how? One can produce space marine and sigmarine count-as'es if one wants. All these name changes etc don't make 3rd parties life making count as models any harder.

I said Sue I did not say win besides they mostly only need to throw there weight around to achieve there aims, or they just change the miniature line so that the proxies are no longer desirable aka bye bye Aztec space lizards hello Ming dynasty space lizards for example or kill the line off like TK & Brett’s.

SeanDrake wrote:
Seraphon getting squatted is not beyond possible, since was it Lost Legion released a full Aztec Lizardman army which is pretty amazing.

Remember Brett’s and Tk’s main crimes before there squatting other than slightly lower sales was being unable to be tm’d up the wazoo and competing/proxy models.

GW might just decided that Seraphon are a lost cause and move on to something else we’re there not competing wither better proxies and they could sue if they were.

I think it was more than ‘slightly’ lower sales. Anything to do with copyrighting and stuff is just speculation.

SeanDrake wrote:
Seraphon getting squatted is not beyond possible, since was it Lost Legion released a full Aztec Lizardman army which is pretty amazing.

Remember Brett’s and Tk’s main crimes before there squatting other than slightly lower sales was being unable to be tm’d up the wazoo and competing/proxy models.

GW might just decided that Seraphon are a lost cause and move on to something else we’re there not competing wither better proxies and they could sue if they were.

Yes but there are also alternate dark eldar, space marines, orks, elves, slaanesh, khorne, nurgle - I could go on. NOTHING GW makes is protected in terms of its core concept. ANYONE can copy any army concept and sell the models, you just can't outright copy the exact same sculpt nor use the trademark names.
https://www.ragingheroes.com

https://wargameexclusive.com

Heck even Tyranids have alternate parts and models
http://hydracast.blogspot.com/p/boneswords-for-gw-hivetyrant-kit-of-two.html

So no I don't think a 3rd party company making alternative options is in any way influencing GW's choice to keep or remove an army. If it were then we'd be seeing them rolling out new armies every 6 months and dropping armies every 6 months as they'd try to game the system. We'd also get no warning on either so that no one could prepare for it. And if GW did that it would probably tank their sales after the first few rotations.


AoS at launch was just a totally different product. It wasn't about armies it was about Grand Alliances and it wasn't about being a wargame it was about being an infinite setting where GW could create new forces with a handful of releases and remove forces whenever they wanted (sales got too low). The idea that you'd build and army and keep it and extend it over the years was gone; the games rules were gone etc.... The years of being ignored by GW hadn't helped sales and Brets and TK were the first to lose out. Elves also lost out it just took a lot longer to get too.

AoS was something created by a management team that was far too isolated from their actual real market, from their customers. They produced something that likely looked good on paper, but considering how they marketed it it also sounded like internal struggles and battles came to the fore and some elements were rushed/hurried/messed up. Thankfully we've past that messy time behind and thus far no army with a Battletome has been removed from AoS and I don't expect it too. I expect GW to retire models and release new ones and update them. We've only had more losses than gains for many armies because right now they are releasing Tomes faster than production can keep up with model releases. Which is a good thing because it means getting all of AoS onto the 2.0 rules system and structure. From there (which should be early next year if GW keeps up its current release rate) we should enter more normal times. Where GW adds armies, adds new models and updates them and we stop seeing any massive withdrawls of models.

 ImAGeek wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
Seraphon getting squatted is not beyond possible, since was it Lost Legion released a full Aztec Lizardman army which is pretty amazing.

Remember Brett’s and Tk’s main crimes before there squatting other than slightly lower sales was being unable to be tm’d up the wazoo and competing/proxy models.

GW might just decided that Seraphon are a lost cause and move on to something else we’re there not competing wither better proxies and they could sue if they were.

I think it was more than ‘slightly’ lower sales. Anything to do with copyrighting and stuff is just speculation.

To be frank, I think Copyright might have been an issue. Really, really hard to put a unique spin on two factions that are basically Medieval Britain/France and Ancient Egypt in terms of aesthetics and all. Which to be frank is what Brets and TKs pretty much were. Notice how recent undead and Vampire stuff has moved away from the traditional horror movie styles to far more exotic and out of this world aesthetics?

GW are trying to make sure what they have is unique. Easier for copyright, easier to protect if challenged. Notice the wood elves deciding the become so forest-spirit heavy it hurts?

Seraphon have always been fairly unique - sure, Lizardmen existed but not to the extent GW took them to. So squatting them seems odd. If anything I suspect we're seeing maybe a build up to an overhaul in design....

If GW is being super unique what the heck is up with Untamed Beasts who are as pure barbarian as you can get? Or Melusai who are just medusa (heck Morathi is actually very authentic because she's got the tail body; the head of snakes and the wings before they were cut off).

Or Harpies which are just gargoyles or or - we can go on forever. TK and Bretonnia were not killed because of copyright; copyright had nothing what so ever to do with it because nothing GW can release or has released is any more nor any less protected than them. All they've done is change a few names so that 3rd party stores can't advertise their alterantive models under the same names as GW ones.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
.Eldar ditching Aspects altogether - hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. No. I'm pretty sure whoever tried to suggest that had Jes Goodwin show up in his office with several pointy implements. Aspects have literally been around since the dawn of time model and rangewise for 40k. Now...maybe they got confused and mistook the idea of a 'corsair' faction for this? That might make sense...but oddly enough seems to step on the Dark Eldar's whole schtick...

Funny really. That's the one thing on there that stood out. Could be good trolling by the 'leaker' but I've had The Fear about that for some time now. I remember one of the first Primaris reveal vids, had Jes and ... someone looking at Exhibit A and He's said something about how it was nice to revisit a range and do something new because doing the same thing over and over for X years got dull. He may have briefly mentioned Eldar Aspects in some form, not really sure without finding it again.

Hopefully - we may get a revamp, a reimagining and - from GW's perspective - a way to make me re-purchase my collection (and without a Conquest to ease the pain this time) but the Ynnari make me nervous. Very nervous. That all we're seeing is psykers and wraiths recently isn't helping either.

I really need to find that video again now, to hopefully ease my hobby paranoia if nothing else.

 Overread wrote:
If GW is being super unique what the heck is up with Untamed Beasts who are as pure barbarian as you can get? Or Melusai who are just medusa (heck Morathi is actually very authentic because she's got the tail body; the head of snakes and the wings before they were cut off).

Or Harpies which are just gargoyles or or - we can go on forever. TK and Bretonnia were not killed because of copyright; copyright had nothing what so ever to do with it because nothing GW can release or has released is any more nor any less protected than them. All they've done is change a few names so that 3rd party stores can't advertise their alterantive models under the same names as GW ones.

Nor is reason btw automatically bad sales. Squats weren't killed due to poor sales. Nor copyright reasons

tneva82 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
If GW is being super unique what the heck is up with Untamed Beasts who are as pure barbarian as you can get? Or Melusai who are just medusa (heck Morathi is actually very authentic because she's got the tail body; the head of snakes and the wings before they were cut off).

Or Harpies which are just gargoyles or or - we can go on forever. TK and Bretonnia were not killed because of copyright; copyright had nothing what so ever to do with it because nothing GW can release or has released is any more nor any less protected than them. All they've done is change a few names so that 3rd party stores can't advertise their alterantive models under the same names as GW ones.

Nor is reason btw automatically bad sales. Squats weren't killed due to poor sales. Nor copyright reasons

No it was Tyranids.
Ate them all up

SeanDrake wrote:
Seraphon getting squatted is not beyond possible, since was it Lost Legion released a full Aztec Lizardman army which is pretty amazing.

Remember Brett’s and Tk’s main crimes before there squatting other than slightly lower sales was being unable to be tm’d up the wazoo and competing/proxy models.

GW might just decided that Seraphon are a lost cause and move on to something else we’re there not competing wither better proxies and they could sue if they were.

Again, here is a comprehensive list of the battletomes released since 2nd edition launched (not necessarily in order):

Dudes in Armor
Ghosts
Teslapunk Man-Rats
Goblins
Cannibal Not-zombies
Satyrs and Minotaurs
Angry Dwarven Naturists
Angry Trees
Red Barbarians and Literally Just Demons
Purple Barbarians and VD Demons

The closest thing to an original idea in that list is the Teslapunk Man-Rats, and they're basically just every sci-fi trope in rat form.

I can imagine the older model Seraphon being squatted like the stunty marines as being mere memories and then have new tangible seraphon "spawned" as new seraphon.

I wouldn't mind new non-skinny Saurus warriors.

John D Law wrote:
So supposedly someone over on the Aeldari Facebook page posted this. Supposedly gleamed from a whiteboard at GW. Take with massive salt but even if 10% is tru might be interesting

...

These have been called out as bs on 4chan endless times by now.

Lord Kragan wrote:

John D Law wrote:
So supposedly someone over on the Aeldari Facebook page posted this. Supposedly gleamed from a whiteboard at GW. Take with massive salt but even if 10% is tru might be interesting

...

These have been called out as bs on 4chan endless times by now.

And 4Chan is ALWAYS right .

 Popsghostly wrote:
I can imagine the older model Seraphon being squatted like the stunty marines.

you mean not really squatted at all?