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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Xenomancers wrote:

Only if you go first and seize the initate is a thing. Otherwise deploying it aggressively is just going to get it killed or mobbed.


That's why I like CA18 missions. If they deploy first, then they go first, but you get to fully react to their deployment.

If you deploy first they can setup with the risk of getting blown off the table.

   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine




San Jose, CA

 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:

Only if you go first and seize the initate is a thing. Otherwise deploying it aggressively is just going to get it killed or mobbed.


That's why I like CA18 missions. If they deploy first, then they go first, but you get to fully react to their deployment.

If you deploy first they can setup with the risk of getting blown off the table.


yup CA18 missions are great.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Yeah but the one player deploys everything and then the other player deploys everything had been in the game system for most of the editions of the game. It was pretty much 8th edition that changed it to unit by unit which actually felt a bit more tactical as you had to plan defensively not knowing who would go first or what would be placed where.

I guess it just doesn't feel so new and cool when I deployed like in CA18 for well over a decade of playing the game. It does make it feel more old school though.
   
Made in us
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant






I definitely do not like alternating deployment. It feels kinda clunky and slow. I'm glad they went back.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





AngryAngel80 wrote:


I guess it just doesn't feel so new and cool when I deployed like in CA18 for well over a decade of playing the game. It does make it feel more old school though.


It didn't matter much when you still had pretty much a straight roll off. CA is considerably different.

   
Made in us
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant





Ice_can wrote:
It's got some play, I still suspect that it's either going to be a ravenguard or ironhands prefered model over the other chapters.
As I suspect they are the only chapters that can stop it being just being demolished if it's deployed on the line and your going second.


Use more Scenery.

I think the UM Tactics/Scions/etc works better with the Redemptor, but I think the Warsuit is best used as a distraction/pressure point. Infiltrate the Warsuit, and people will instinctively want to deal with it sooner rather than later because they'll feel like they have less time to do so. The urgency part of Target Prioritization goes up (for most), even if the value part went down a little. That could make them a decent "screening" force for a Repulsor variant. I'm thinking of infiltrating a pair of them to do just that.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Breton wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
It's got some play, I still suspect that it's either going to be a ravenguard or ironhands prefered model over the other chapters.
As I suspect they are the only chapters that can stop it being just being demolished if it's deployed on the line and your going second.


Use more Scenery.

I think the UM Tactics/Scions/etc works better with the Redemptor, but I think the Warsuit is best used as a distraction/pressure point. Infiltrate the Warsuit, and people will instinctively want to deal with it sooner rather than later because they'll feel like they have less time to do so. The urgency part of Target Prioritization goes up (for most), even if the value part went down a little. That could make them a decent "screening" force for a Repulsor variant. I'm thinking of infiltrating a pair of them to do just that.


No amount of scenery short of a barely playable board is going to have enough terrain to keep you out of Line of sight at 9 inches from the enemy deployment zone.

A distraction suit, maybe but it's then not super important which weapons it has, usually cheaper is better.
   
Made in pt
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon




Lisbon, Portugal

The Redemptor was already a underperforming unit before; the new dread only cements it.

But the normal dreads are quite useable (and now cheaper!), whily the Leviathan became even more interesting with the new dread strat.

40k Dark Angels
BFG Tau

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Vector Strike wrote:
The Redemptor was already a underperforming unit before; the new dread only cements it.

But the normal dreads are quite useable (and now cheaper!), whily the Leviathan became even more interesting with the new dread strat.
I disagree that it was underperforming. After the CA points drops it became a core unit for my ultras. Granted I was using gman to turn it up to 11. However now it has a great chance of getting into CC (cause it can move every turn as ultras and still deal legit damage) and when it does it pretty much 1 shots things. Las game I had one 1 shot Tragen Valoris. It's to the point now where taking 2 redemptors compared to a levi dread seems pretty reasonable. Plus as with most things. It has always benefited form taking multiples of them.

Plus will space marine auras being reroll all hits. Moving and shooting turn 1 is no problem and you get ap-2 on 18 shots. It is great IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:

Only if you go first and seize the initate is a thing. Otherwise deploying it aggressively is just going to get it killed or mobbed.


That's why I like CA18 missions. If they deploy first, then they go first, but you get to fully react to their deployment.

If you deploy first they can setup with the risk of getting blown off the table.
Counter deploy is amazing. In fact it is so strong I'd say go ahead and remove seize the initiate. Which is probably why it's there - to force the winner of the roll off to play more conservative. At least seize has the effect that you might not want to go for an overly aggressive strategy. CA missions really are good. Except for some missions that really favor assault armies or armies with powerful characters. Overall its WAY better than maelstrom. This dread though. Yeah...I'm not sure I'd deploy ay unit 9" away from an opponent without knowing whos going first.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/08/25 15:38:21


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Pretty Nasty combo I found for Ultramarines and Invictors.

Ultras have an ability that allows you to redeploy 3 units. Take 3 invictor dreads and place them super aggressive and if you don't get the first turn you just redploy to another flank OR back into your lines. You could really go all in on alpha strike with this build. Take a bunch of intercessors with auto bolters and any tanks with range to clear screens - maybe a drop pod with grav devs - or hell blasters in the new transports.. Seems like it is a build that will have a hard time losing with the first turn.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/26 00:32:06


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
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Sioux Falls, SD

 fraser1191 wrote:
TheAvengingKnee wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
 fraser1191 wrote:
Well we got the base model for Primaris, now the stealthy one. The next cliché option would be a heavily armoured one which will probably be slow so it'll have a big gun or maybe 2 like a bargain bin castellan

I'd like a tougher, purely shooty version, yes, yes!


Could make an all dreadnaught list work pretty well if they introduced something like that. I am gonna proxy 3 of the invictus dreads this weekend, want to see how well they work with the close range flamer build.


I'd really like to hear your hot take after you play.

Maybe we'll get lucky and get a generic dreadnought HQ
Unfortunately it's totally impossible for Primaris since the redemptor burns out the sarcophagus.


I ran the 3 incendiary cannon invictus suits today, they took a good beating one managed to take out my opponents Cawl in 1 round. The other two died before I used them but they ate a full castle of shots from the units around Cawl. The opponent admitted that they forced his hand and made him ignore the rest of my army the first turn. With their relatively low points it was worth it to force my opponent to ignore more dangerous units because of the invictus units being so close. My opponent had first turn and I still came out way ahead at the end of the first round. The flamer with the extra ap from the devastator doctrine was very nice.

I would definitely run them again.

Violence is never the answer, violence is always the question. And the answer is always yes.

 
   
Made in gb
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller




East of England

Everyone has that build Xenomancer - it's a Phobos warlord trait. I agree it's naturally suited to Invictors.
   
Made in us
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 grouchoben wrote:
Everyone has that build Xenomancer - it's a Phobos warlord trait. I agree it's naturally suited to Invictors.

Wow haven't had a chance to read through the whole marine dex yet thoroughly. As a warlord trait though that is pretty steep for something you might not even need to use about 50% of the time. Still though anyone can pull it off so I think we will be seeing a lot of invictors out there.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in ca
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant






 Xenomancers wrote:
 grouchoben wrote:
Everyone has that build Xenomancer - it's a Phobos warlord trait. I agree it's naturally suited to Invictors.

Wow haven't had a chance to read through the whole marine dex yet thoroughly. As a warlord trait though that is pretty steep for something you might not even need to use about 50% of the time. Still though anyone can pull it off so I think we will be seeing a lot of invictors out there.


Yeah everyone have access to the WL trait but only UM have the stratagem for it. So it's up for debate on which is better but I'd say the stratagem
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Abel





Washington State

 fraser1191 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 grouchoben wrote:
Everyone has that build Xenomancer - it's a Phobos warlord trait. I agree it's naturally suited to Invictors.

Wow haven't had a chance to read through the whole marine dex yet thoroughly. As a warlord trait though that is pretty steep for something you might not even need to use about 50% of the time. Still though anyone can pull it off so I think we will be seeing a lot of invictors out there.


Yeah everyone have access to the WL trait but only UM have the stratagem for it. So it's up for debate on which is better but I'd say the stratagem


The stratagem is more flexible, that's for sure. I'd rather save those CP's for making my dreads better later in the game or for other stratagems, but it's comforting to know its there and can really, really mess with your opponent's deployment.

As to the original question, "What's the point of dreadnoughts?", the biggest thing in my mind is the damage tracks. A Dreadnought does not degrade as it takes damage. It's always 6" MV, BS/WS 2+ or 3+ which is huge when you have a model armed with a bunch of heavy weapons. Why, oh why, GW does a Dreadnought NOT ignore the -1 to hit penalty for moving and shooting a heavy weapon? It really sucks when my Redemptor is down to those last 3-4 wounds, and suddenly can't hit anything with all it's weapons. Score one for the Invictor with it's Incenderium Flame Cannon. Yes, I know the Contemptor has a damage track. Also, cost. Regular dreads are cheaper in points over a Redemptor.. Finally, regular dreads fulfill the role of anti-tank much better then a Redemptor or Invictor. If the Redemptor could take a lascannon, it's utility would increase by x10,000. Instead, it has a Plasma weapon that wounds easily, but only causes 1-2 wounds. Oh, and can cause a mortal wound on the Redemptor.

There are several stratagems that can really help out Dreads for Space Marines as well.

The Invictus is a shiny, new toy that doesn't really fulfill a new role, and is a one trick pony that your opponent can see from a mile away if you forward deploy it hoping for that first turn charge. It's best use is during the deployment phase, threatening your enemy and making him modify his deployment somewhat. If you lose that first turn, you'll probably lose the Invictus.

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






The interesting thing with ultras compared to other marines utilizing the redeploy invictors trick. Ultras have access to Calgar who generates 2 CP for being your warlord and also regens CP on a 5+ for his trait. That's why I am saying the warlord trait for deploy is a steep cost. ESP because phobos HQ's kinda suck. The reiver LT is probably the best of the bunch but he is also pretty easy to kill for slay the warlord.

I think Ultras pull this off the best. Also with the ability to fall back and shoot flamers and even charge with 1 of them for 1 CP is also pretty huge.

I'm kinda mad about this combo because...I wasn't going to buy any of these...Now I am compelled to!

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
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 Tamwulf wrote:


The Invictus is a shiny, new toy that doesn't really fulfill a new role, and is a one trick pony that your opponent can see from a mile away if you forward deploy it hoping for that first turn charge. It's best use is during the deployment phase, threatening your enemy and making him modify his deployment somewhat. If you lose that first turn, you'll probably lose the Invictus.


A unit can achieve value with it's death, and I think this is a major draw of the Invictus, since it must be addressed quickly, and it attracts antitank gun fire, leaving other potential targets like Predators, Vindicators, and Repulsors active and available when they would have died.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in ca
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 Xenomancers wrote:
The interesting thing with ultras compared to other marines utilizing the redeploy invictors trick. Ultras have access to Calgar who generates 2 CP for being your warlord and also regens CP on a 5+ for his trait. That's why I am saying the warlord trait for deploy is a steep cost. ESP because phobos HQ's kinda suck. The reiver LT is probably the best of the bunch but he is also pretty easy to kill for slay the warlord.

I think Ultras pull this off the best. Also with the ability to fall back and shoot flamers and even charge with 1 of them for 1 CP is also pretty huge.

I'm kinda mad about this combo because...I wasn't going to buy any of these...Now I am compelled to!


another thing to consider, if you take the redeploy warlord trait folks are GOING to be onguard against the manuver the UM strat is far more likely to catch them off guard

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





BrianDavion wrote:


another thing to consider, if you take the redeploy warlord trait folks are GOING to be onguard against the manuver the UM strat is far more likely to catch them off guard


Excellent point. UM are no joke this time around.

   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






BrianDavion wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
The interesting thing with ultras compared to other marines utilizing the redeploy invictors trick. Ultras have access to Calgar who generates 2 CP for being your warlord and also regens CP on a 5+ for his trait. That's why I am saying the warlord trait for deploy is a steep cost. ESP because phobos HQ's kinda suck. The reiver LT is probably the best of the bunch but he is also pretty easy to kill for slay the warlord.

I think Ultras pull this off the best. Also with the ability to fall back and shoot flamers and even charge with 1 of them for 1 CP is also pretty huge.

I'm kinda mad about this combo because...I wasn't going to buy any of these...Now I am compelled to!


another thing to consider, if you take the redeploy warlord trait folks are GOING to be onguard against the manuver the UM strat is far more likely to catch them off guard

Totally. Plus you have 0 investment into it as a stratagem so you can deploy them in your lines and make the call after you see the table if you want to be sneaky. Or you can load upfront. Force them to deploy where they don't want to and just bring them back. To be able to do this with infiltrating units seems kinda broken to me but the unit really isn't worth taking over the redemptor without it IMO.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Xenomancers wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
The interesting thing with ultras compared to other marines utilizing the redeploy invictors trick. Ultras have access to Calgar who generates 2 CP for being your warlord and also regens CP on a 5+ for his trait. That's why I am saying the warlord trait for deploy is a steep cost. ESP because phobos HQ's kinda suck. The reiver LT is probably the best of the bunch but he is also pretty easy to kill for slay the warlord.

I think Ultras pull this off the best. Also with the ability to fall back and shoot flamers and even charge with 1 of them for 1 CP is also pretty huge.

I'm kinda mad about this combo because...I wasn't going to buy any of these...Now I am compelled to!


another thing to consider, if you take the redeploy warlord trait folks are GOING to be onguard against the manuver the UM strat is far more likely to catch them off guard

Totally. Plus you have 0 investment into it as a stratagem so you can deploy them in your lines and make the call after you see the table if you want to be sneaky. Or you can load upfront. Force them to deploy where they don't want to and just bring them back. To be able to do this with infiltrating units seems kinda broken to me but the unit really isn't worth taking over the redemptor without it IMO.


Just a quick heads up before you go buying 3 of these, some people are claiming that the redeploy has to be within your deployment zone, why I don't understand but they claim you can deploy forward them redeploy to your deployment zone but not the other way around. Don't know why but be aware that somepeople have read this very strangely
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Ice_can wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
The interesting thing with ultras compared to other marines utilizing the redeploy invictors trick. Ultras have access to Calgar who generates 2 CP for being your warlord and also regens CP on a 5+ for his trait. That's why I am saying the warlord trait for deploy is a steep cost. ESP because phobos HQ's kinda suck. The reiver LT is probably the best of the bunch but he is also pretty easy to kill for slay the warlord.

I think Ultras pull this off the best. Also with the ability to fall back and shoot flamers and even charge with 1 of them for 1 CP is also pretty huge.

I'm kinda mad about this combo because...I wasn't going to buy any of these...Now I am compelled to!


another thing to consider, if you take the redeploy warlord trait folks are GOING to be onguard against the manuver the UM strat is far more likely to catch them off guard

Totally. Plus you have 0 investment into it as a stratagem so you can deploy them in your lines and make the call after you see the table if you want to be sneaky. Or you can load upfront. Force them to deploy where they don't want to and just bring them back. To be able to do this with infiltrating units seems kinda broken to me but the unit really isn't worth taking over the redemptor without it IMO.


Just a quick heads up before you go buying 3 of these, some people are claiming that the redeploy has to be within your deployment zone, why I don't understand but they claim you can deploy forward them redeploy to your deployment zone but not the other way around. Don't know why but be aware that some people have read this very strangely
That is possible I suppose - I think it says to follow the rules for the mission for deployment. Which infiltration would be allowed. Really the important thing is that you can deploy agressive and pull back if you lose first turn. That would still work with even that interpretation.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Xenomancers wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
The interesting thing with ultras compared to other marines utilizing the redeploy invictors trick. Ultras have access to Calgar who generates 2 CP for being your warlord and also regens CP on a 5+ for his trait. That's why I am saying the warlord trait for deploy is a steep cost. ESP because phobos HQ's kinda suck. The reiver LT is probably the best of the bunch but he is also pretty easy to kill for slay the warlord.

I think Ultras pull this off the best. Also with the ability to fall back and shoot flamers and even charge with 1 of them for 1 CP is also pretty huge.

I'm kinda mad about this combo because...I wasn't going to buy any of these...Now I am compelled to!


another thing to consider, if you take the redeploy warlord trait folks are GOING to be onguard against the manuver the UM strat is far more likely to catch them off guard

Totally. Plus you have 0 investment into it as a stratagem so you can deploy them in your lines and make the call after you see the table if you want to be sneaky. Or you can load upfront. Force them to deploy where they don't want to and just bring them back. To be able to do this with infiltrating units seems kinda broken to me but the unit really isn't worth taking over the redemptor without it IMO.


Just a quick heads up before you go buying 3 of these, some people are claiming that the redeploy has to be within your deployment zone, why I don't understand but they claim you can deploy forward them redeploy to your deployment zone but not the other way around. Don't know why but be aware that some people have read this very strangely
That is possible I suppose - I think it says to follow the rules for the mission for deployment. Which infiltration would be allowed. Really the important thing is that you can deploy agressive and pull back if you lose first turn. That would still work with even that interpretation.

To be honest I think your right in that it just works.
But I'm not even sure what's going on with some of the utter rubbish rules lawyering that has been going on about the rules of late. It's descend into the ah well technically it doesn't say I can't. Or the plate is red is somehow ambiguous is the plate red or does the plate just appear to be red because it's on a red table.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/26 18:44:57


 
   
Made in us
Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot



Schaumburg, IL

I just bought and assembled one of the warsuits and my only beef with them is that you have to choose which main weapon to build. They don't give you two of the elbow joints (like in the redemptor) so that you can change out the main weapon. Trying to rig something up is much more difficult. I'm not sure if GW thinks that people are really going to buy so many of these that they would buy 2 just so they can use each main weapon.

I built the flame weapon just because I really don't see myself ever use the long range one (just seems if I wanted a long range weapon on a dred that there are better options).

Other than the roll cage being extremely impractical on a dred, the model looks really good.

I'm not prejudiced, I hate everyone equally 
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine






 Corennus wrote:
The Invictus Tactical Warsuit is out!

And it looks........like a Space Marine recreating Avatar.


Exosuited marines aren't new. Dreadknights and Centurions have been around quite a few years now...

But the question is this:

What's the point of taking a Redepmtor Dreadnought over a Warsuit now?

A redemptor is:

a 13 wound S7 T7 vehicle with a 30" range main weapon (Heavy 12 S5 Ap-1 D1) and heavy flamer. it can target flying units with an ircarus rocket pod. Has to footslog across battlefield or arrive by Lucius Drop Pod.

an invictor is:

a 13 wound, S7 T6 vehicle with either a 12" 2D6 autohitting incendium cannon or a 36" twin ironhail stubber (Heavy S4 AP-1 D1), twin irohnhail autocannon (Heavy 6 S7-1 D2). It can set up ANYWHERE ON THE BATTLEFIELD THAT IS MORE THAN 9" from enemy!!!! Oh and it has a heavy bolter it uses as a PISTOL!


So the Invicttor:

Outshoots the Redemptor
Is T6 compared to T7 but that's the only bad point
Can scout and Alpha Strike
Costs less than Redemptor (in points)


Are dreads dead??



As always, in the competitive world, there is no reason.

For the rest of us playing toy soldiers with our friends, I can think of a dozen reasons.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Ice_can wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
The interesting thing with ultras compared to other marines utilizing the redeploy invictors trick. Ultras have access to Calgar who generates 2 CP for being your warlord and also regens CP on a 5+ for his trait. That's why I am saying the warlord trait for deploy is a steep cost. ESP because phobos HQ's kinda suck. The reiver LT is probably the best of the bunch but he is also pretty easy to kill for slay the warlord.

I think Ultras pull this off the best. Also with the ability to fall back and shoot flamers and even charge with 1 of them for 1 CP is also pretty huge.

I'm kinda mad about this combo because...I wasn't going to buy any of these...Now I am compelled to!


another thing to consider, if you take the redeploy warlord trait folks are GOING to be onguard against the manuver the UM strat is far more likely to catch them off guard

Totally. Plus you have 0 investment into it as a stratagem so you can deploy them in your lines and make the call after you see the table if you want to be sneaky. Or you can load upfront. Force them to deploy where they don't want to and just bring them back. To be able to do this with infiltrating units seems kinda broken to me but the unit really isn't worth taking over the redemptor without it IMO.


Just a quick heads up before you go buying 3 of these, some people are claiming that the redeploy has to be within your deployment zone, why I don't understand but they claim you can deploy forward them redeploy to your deployment zone but not the other way around. Don't know why but be aware that some people have read this very strangely
That is possible I suppose - I think it says to follow the rules for the mission for deployment. Which infiltration would be allowed. Really the important thing is that you can deploy agressive and pull back if you lose first turn. That would still work with even that interpretation.

To be honest I think your right in that it just works.
But I'm not even sure what's going on with some of the utter rubbish rules lawyering that has been going on about the rules of late. It's descend into the ah well technically it doesn't say I can't. Or the plate is red is somehow ambiguous is the plate red or does the plate just appear to be red because it's on a red table.

Reminds me of 6th when models with helmets couldn't shoot.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Ice_can wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
The interesting thing with ultras compared to other marines utilizing the redeploy invictors trick. Ultras have access to Calgar who generates 2 CP for being your warlord and also regens CP on a 5+ for his trait. That's why I am saying the warlord trait for deploy is a steep cost. ESP because phobos HQ's kinda suck. The reiver LT is probably the best of the bunch but he is also pretty easy to kill for slay the warlord.

I think Ultras pull this off the best. Also with the ability to fall back and shoot flamers and even charge with 1 of them for 1 CP is also pretty huge.

I'm kinda mad about this combo because...I wasn't going to buy any of these...Now I am compelled to!


another thing to consider, if you take the redeploy warlord trait folks are GOING to be onguard against the manuver the UM strat is far more likely to catch them off guard

Totally. Plus you have 0 investment into it as a stratagem so you can deploy them in your lines and make the call after you see the table if you want to be sneaky. Or you can load upfront. Force them to deploy where they don't want to and just bring them back. To be able to do this with infiltrating units seems kinda broken to me but the unit really isn't worth taking over the redemptor without it IMO.


Just a quick heads up before you go buying 3 of these, some people are claiming that the redeploy has to be within your deployment zone, why I don't understand but they claim you can deploy forward them redeploy to your deployment zone but not the other way around. Don't know why but be aware that some people have read this very strangely
That is possible I suppose - I think it says to follow the rules for the mission for deployment. Which infiltration would be allowed. Really the important thing is that you can deploy agressive and pull back if you lose first turn. That would still work with even that interpretation.

To be honest I think your right in that it just works.
But I'm not even sure what's going on with some of the utter rubbish rules lawyering that has been going on about the rules of late. It's descend into the ah well technically it doesn't say I can't. Or the plate is red is somehow ambiguous is the plate red or does the plate just appear to be red because it's on a red table.
I've been really busy playing and building and painting. Haven't had a lot of time to really sit down and grind out the rules because there is a lot of skipping round to different books to figure out exactly what things mean. I remember pausing when I read the redeploy section and wondering if that wording would exclude infiltration.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Ice_can wrote:

Just a quick heads up before you go buying 3 of these, some people are claiming that the redeploy has to be within your deployment zone, why I don't understand but they claim you can deploy forward them redeploy to your deployment zone but not the other way around. Don't know why but be aware that somepeople have read this very strangely


If that were true how does anything deploy outside their zone?

Stratagem says:

At the start of the first battle round, before the first turn
begins, select up to three ULTRAMARINES units from your
army on the battlefield. Remove them from the battlefield and
set them up again as described in the Deployment section of
the mission
(if both players have abilities that redeploy units,
roll off; the winner chooses who redeploys their units first).


Mission says (one of them anyway):

The player who did not pick their deployment
zone then deploys their entire army first.
Their opponent then deploys their entire
army. A player’s models must be set up wholly
within their deployment zone
.


Invictor says:

When you set up this model
during deployment
, it can be set up anywhere on the
battlefield that is more than 9" away from the enemy
deployment zone and any enemy models.


The special rule is an exception to the norm.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/26 20:02:19


   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Daedalus81 wrote:
Ice_can wrote:

Just a quick heads up before you go buying 3 of these, some people are claiming that the redeploy has to be within your deployment zone, why I don't understand but they claim you can deploy forward them redeploy to your deployment zone but not the other way around. Don't know why but be aware that somepeople have read this very strangely


If that were true how does anything deploy outside their zone?

Stratagem says:

At the start of the first battle round, before the first turn
begins, select up to three ULTRAMARINES units from your
army on the battlefield. Remove them from the battlefield and
set them up again as described in the Deployment section of
the mission
(if both players have abilities that redeploy units,
roll off; the winner chooses who redeploys their units first).


Mission says (one of them anyway):

The player who did not pick their deployment
zone then deploys their entire army first.
Their opponent then deploys their entire
army. A player’s models must be set up wholly
within their deployment zone
.


Invictor says:

When you set up this model
during deployment
, it can be set up anywhere on the
battlefield that is more than 9" away from the enemy
deployment zone and any enemy models.


The special rule is an exception to the norm.


Go argue with the people claiming it doesn't work because first round isnt during deployment, I agree it works fine.
I was just giving a warning that they might get some rules lawyering at the table which would really mess with the strategy / playability of the models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/26 20:31:53


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






The argument is pretty weak there. What allows you to deploy a unit normally?

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
 
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