Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2019/10/17 21:58:18
Subject: Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
Saturmorn Carvilli wrote: I am pretty sure most of the population of the world has managed to avoid GW space marines on the internet. So I think it is quite easy to avoid them there. Same with most forums. That post is coming on rather extreme like space marines haunt your dreams and you are uncontrollably compelled to read more about space marines despite your protests. However, I hope I get what you are saying is, "Avoiding the SM threads on the 40k portion of the internet?"
You could read what I have written? What I am saying is all there - it is impossible to participate in the 40k hobby without getting bombarded by SM from every possible direction, whether in GW stores, on their website, on forums, in magazines, in the literature etc etc etc
Well yeah, they make up most of the player base and have for some time. You might have noticed they tend to be on the covers BRB and other general stuff over the last 20-30 years. It is kinda what 40k is known for. That would be living in Manchester and being a fan of football yet tired of see United stuff on the local sports forums. But you know what? You don't have to open any of those threads/pages that are specifically about space marines. It won't avoid them completely but that should cut down you exposure of space marines considerably.
Your football analogy is apt because it can be used to help perfectly describe what is happening here (the problem is you've used it completely wrong). What it's actually like is as if you were supporting a particular team, looking forward to match of the day every week, then getting 55 minutes detailed analysis of the Utd match and all of the other matches are crammed into the final 5 minutes as an afterthought. This is what it is to be a 40k fan that doesn't play Marines.
"There is quite literally no way to participate in this hobby without getting Marine after Marine after Marine news/article/whatever thrown in your face."
Once again do you mean the 40k HHHobby? Because that quote again reads very extremist/obsessive to me. I was in miniatures war gaming long before playing 40k, and I mostly certainly never encountered marine after marine article unless you are talking about USMC in the Pacific Campaign. Even with 40k, one could easily participate in this hobby avoid that by simply not reading them. Which is what I am getting at. You don't want to read about space marines? Then don't, period. Only you control want you read. Again, have the self control to not click on those threads, articles, links, etc. specifically about space marines. You don't need to read much more than the BRB, your codex, the FAQ and maybe the CA to play this game, and even that stuff can be greatly reduced if you have an easy going group. You can completely get by in the hobby just painting anything not space marine and never have to worry about that sort of thing again. If you want more on non-space marine stuff start some of it yourself. That is about the most control you can have.
Y'know what? You could also control yourself. If you don't like what I'm saying in this thread that I have made on a public forum feel free not to click on it. Feel free not to respond. Feel free not to attempt to tell me how I should feel about something that irritates me (and others, apparently). I do believe it is impossible to participate in this hobby in any meaningful way without getting flooded with SM information. That in and of itself isn't a bad thing (although it is tiring). The thing that annoys me is that one minute GW is claiming "OMG guyz just wait for this EPIC GLOBAL CAMPAIGN that will feature releases and stuff for EVERY FACTIONNN, you will LOVE ITTT!!!" and then releases a ton of stuff for Marines, spends more time hyping them up and has clearly put infinitely more effort into their release. So that campaign for everyone is actually a load of horse gak and unless I play Marines I have very little to be excited about. For context, this is after a boxed set that contained an entire set's worth of new models for Marines, new models for Marines released in a previous "campaign" where they were the clear focus, a load of new models at the start of 8th for them and of course a history of getting the lion's share of resource every previous edition, ironically when GW are literally claiming that things are different this edition. I am also sick of GW's bull gak.
There being too much space marine stuff seems like more of personal perception thing.
Really? It must just be me then. I'm sure no one will agree with this OP.
I am not going to look at your post history as I told you my general impression of you has been that your are grumpy about the state of Orks mostly concerning units that aren't competitive, not that Orks themselves aren't competitive at all. And you seem to really have it in for Space Marines. I am sure you can point to posts here and there that contradict that. I just wanted to give you my impression of you based on what I have read here on Dakka cat this point. I don't know if others share that opinion.
Well I can tell you that your general impression is wrong. I have nothing against Space Marines particularly. I have an issue with any faction that is so much better than anything else that it becomes un-fun to play or a requirement of playing competitively. I also have an issue with GW not "spreading the love" in terms of releases for literally anything else.
Oh, I don't mind you ranting about this topic at all. I just think this is a lot less about playing 40k than it is reading about 40k. Your OP was all about no longer wanting to play 40k because their is too much being written about space marines. Which I kindly, I thought, suggested maybe cutting back on reading threads, articles, whatever concerning space marines as a way to relieve this issue. Then you responded saying it was literally impossible. Which I disagree with. Visiting any 40k site is completely optional to enjoying Warhammer 40k as a hobby. You sound more and more like someone angry at the stuff on social media and when the suggestion of maybe cutting back on using it, you become hostile about it. That is all I suggesting. Maybe cut back on the sites you visit and in particular avoid clicking on the stuff you know is going to be about space marines. Maybe try to play the non-marine opponents in your area. I think that is a far more workable solution to the: Hey guys I think all the threads, articles, etc. about space marines is negatively affecting the hobby because we are all tired of talking about space marines and we should stop.
besides, most of the threads relate to new releases, we've known about these releases for awhile now. Why click on a thread titled "Imperial Fists" or "Imperial Fists supplement rumors"or "will I feel bad using blue iron hands?" if you don't wanna hear about space Marines? These are all threads An Actual Englishman has posted on. I'm not saying he's not welcome to post (sometimes it's good to have a non marine players prespective in marine threads) but if he's sick of marine discussion he can just ignore threads relating to it. I mean, nothing is stopping you from starting your own threads to discuss what you're intrested in.
You're acting like marine players don't post in threads that aren't abot maeine, and if anything any thread in General Discussion has a 70% percent chance of Martel, Xenomancer, Karol, or any other of the usual suspects running in screaming about space marines are the worst ever or you should be happy you get anything at all
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/17 21:58:35
As sad as it sounds Seandrake was right when he says marines sales subsidize many other armies.
Basically, marines is why we have Games Workshop now. Theres a fething ton of space marine-only whales out there.
Whenever GW does a risky move like do Harlequins, Genestealer Cults, Sisters of Battle, they know they can do it because they can release a bunch of SM boxes after and probably triple the benefits they gained with that new army. But those armies help GW gain another kind of customers with different tastes, so even if those armies arne't as economically sucesfull as marines (No one is), they can still add value to the branding , by adding diversity of both fluff, players, play stiles and aesthetics.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2019/10/17 22:13:03
Subject: Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
Galas wrote: As sad as it sounds Seandrake was right when he says marines sales subsidize many other armies.
Basically, marines is why we have Games Workshop now. Theres a fething ton of space marine-only whales out there.
Whenever GW does a risky move like do Harlequins, Genestealer Cults, Sisters of Battle, they know they can do it because they can release a bunch of SM boxes after and probably triple the benefits they gained with that new army. But those armies help GW gain another kind of customers with different tastes, so even if those armies arne't as economically sucesfull as marines (No one is), they can still add value to the branding , by adding diversity of both fluff, players, play stiles and aesthetics.
[Citation needed]
2019/10/17 22:22:49
Subject: Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
People said this exact thing about plastic SoB releases not too long ago IIRC.
There is a difference between wanting less and wanting none.
“Make is a new version of this faction” =/= “Stop making your cash cow poster child faction so much”
The two do not equate. The latter would get laughed at by GW. I get that you’re bored of Marines but eh, people like Space Marines and they sell. Whatcha gonna do?
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
2019/10/17 11:13:34
Subject: Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
Xenomancers wrote: Marines are my favorite army and I have fatigue at this point. This all should have been 1 big release....to drag this out doesn't even make business sense...fanatical players will just buy everything they want. Just release everything at once...
Too much special snowflakes. Marines are Marines to me.
It does make buisness sense though because it stabilizes earnings which looks nice to investors.
Blame stockmarkets i guess
I suppose making the same amount of money over a long period does look better than making a ton at once for investors but I think it actually costs them money. I know I have spent less as a result because I am bored with the dang releases. It's not like Ultramarine players are looking to buy crimson fist heros for example...
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2019/10/17 22:35:20
Subject: Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
Saturmorn Carvilli wrote: I am pretty sure most of the population of the world has managed to avoid GW space marines on the internet. So I think it is quite easy to avoid them there. Same with most forums. That post is coming on rather extreme like space marines haunt your dreams and you are uncontrollably compelled to read more about space marines despite your protests. However, I hope I get what you are saying is, "Avoiding the SM threads on the 40k portion of the internet?"
You could read what I have written? What I am saying is all there - it is impossible to participate in the 40k hobby without getting bombarded by SM from every possible direction, whether in GW stores, on their website, on forums, in magazines, in the literature etc etc etc
Well yeah, they make up most of the player base and have for some time. You might have noticed they tend to be on the covers BRB and other general stuff over the last 20-30 years. It is kinda what 40k is known for. That would be living in Manchester and being a fan of football yet tired of see United stuff on the local sports forums. But you know what? You don't have to open any of those threads/pages that are specifically about space marines. It won't avoid them completely but that should cut down you exposure of space marines considerably.
Your football analogy is apt because it can be used to help perfectly describe what is happening here (the problem is you've used it completely wrong). What it's actually like is as if you were supporting a particular team, looking forward to match of the day every week, then getting 55 minutes detailed analysis of the Utd match and all of the other matches are crammed into the final 5 minutes as an afterthought. This is what it is to be a 40k fan that doesn't play Marines.
"There is quite literally no way to participate in this hobby without getting Marine after Marine after Marine news/article/whatever thrown in your face."
Once again do you mean the 40k HHHobby? Because that quote again reads very extremist/obsessive to me. I was in miniatures war gaming long before playing 40k, and I mostly certainly never encountered marine after marine article unless you are talking about USMC in the Pacific Campaign. Even with 40k, one could easily participate in this hobby avoid that by simply not reading them. Which is what I am getting at. You don't want to read about space marines? Then don't, period. Only you control want you read. Again, have the self control to not click on those threads, articles, links, etc. specifically about space marines. You don't need to read much more than the BRB, your codex, the FAQ and maybe the CA to play this game, and even that stuff can be greatly reduced if you have an easy going group. You can completely get by in the hobby just painting anything not space marine and never have to worry about that sort of thing again. If you want more on non-space marine stuff start some of it yourself. That is about the most control you can have.
Y'know what? You could also control yourself. If you don't like what I'm saying in this thread that I have made on a public forum feel free not to click on it. Feel free not to respond. Feel free not to attempt to tell me how I should feel about something that irritates me (and others, apparently). I do believe it is impossible to participate in this hobby in any meaningful way without getting flooded with SM information. That in and of itself isn't a bad thing (although it is tiring). The thing that annoys me is that one minute GW is claiming "OMG guyz just wait for this EPIC GLOBAL CAMPAIGN that will feature releases and stuff for EVERY FACTIONNN, you will LOVE ITTT!!!" and then releases a ton of stuff for Marines, spends more time hyping them up and has clearly put infinitely more effort into their release. So that campaign for everyone is actually a load of horse gak and unless I play Marines I have very little to be excited about. For context, this is after a boxed set that contained an entire set's worth of new models for Marines, new models for Marines released in a previous "campaign" where they were the clear focus, a load of new models at the start of 8th for them and of course a history of getting the lion's share of resource every previous edition, ironically when GW are literally claiming that things are different this edition. I am also sick of GW's bull gak.
There being too much space marine stuff seems like more of personal perception thing.
Really? It must just be me then. I'm sure no one will agree with this OP.
I am not going to look at your post history as I told you my general impression of you has been that your are grumpy about the state of Orks mostly concerning units that aren't competitive, not that Orks themselves aren't competitive at all. And you seem to really have it in for Space Marines. I am sure you can point to posts here and there that contradict that. I just wanted to give you my impression of you based on what I have read here on Dakka cat this point. I don't know if others share that opinion.
Well I can tell you that your general impression is wrong. I have nothing against Space Marines particularly. I have an issue with any faction that is so much better than anything else that it becomes un-fun to play or a requirement of playing competitively. I also have an issue with GW not "spreading the love" in terms of releases for literally anything else.
Oh, I don't mind you ranting about this topic at all. I just think this is a lot less about playing 40k than it is reading about 40k. Your OP was all about no longer wanting to play 40k because their is too much being written about space marines. Which I kindly, I thought, suggested maybe cutting back on reading threads, articles, whatever concerning space marines as a way to relieve this issue. Then you responded saying it was literally impossible. Which I disagree with. Visiting any 40k site is completely optional to enjoying Warhammer 40k as a hobby. You sound more and more like someone angry at the stuff on social media and when the suggestion of maybe cutting back on using it, you become hostile about it. That is all I suggesting. Maybe cut back on the sites you visit and in particular avoid clicking on the stuff you know is going to be about space marines. Maybe try to play the non-marine opponents in your area. I think that is a far more workable solution to the: Hey guys I think all the threads, articles, etc. about space marines is negatively affecting the hobby because we are all tired of talking about space marines and we should stop.
besides, most of the threads relate to new releases, we've known about these releases for awhile now. Why click on a thread titled "Imperial Fists" or "Imperial Fists supplement rumors"or "will I feel bad using blue iron hands?" if you don't wanna hear about space Marines? These are all threads An Actual Englishman has posted on. I'm not saying he's not welcome to post (sometimes it's good to have a non marine players prespective in marine threads) but if he's sick of marine discussion he can just ignore threads relating to it. I mean, nothing is stopping you from starting your own threads to discuss what you're intrested in.
You're acting like marine players don't post in threads that aren't abot maeine, and if anything any thread in General Discussion has a 70% percent chance of Martel, Xenomancer, Karol, or any other of the usual suspects running in screaming about space marines are the worst ever or you should be happy you get anything at all
Or like right now you can see me saying they are the most busted thing in the game.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2019/10/17 22:36:15
Subject: Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
An Actual Englishman wrote: Why are you both ignoring the fact that my complaint has nothing to do with posters on forums discussing Marines and everything to do with GW's obsession with them? Why are you both attempting to strawman so desperately here?
Have either of you actually read my OP? If so, read it again.
Because I recognize the futility of attempting to curtail GW's 'obsession' of with creating more content about and/or for space marines. Games Workshop is gonna do what Games Workshop is gonna do. What we say here and/or do on Dakka Dakka ain't gonna change that. As I said, if you are fatigued, try to not visit the Games Workshop website or at very lest the stuff about space marines.
2019/10/17 22:51:51
Subject: Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
Because I recognize the futility of attempting to curtail GW's 'obsession' of with creating more content about and/or for space marines. Games Workshop is gonna do what Games Workshop is gonna do. What we say here and/or do on Dakka Dakka ain't gonna change that.
I'm sorry sir you can't be making reasonable statements grounded in the realm of reality like this on Dakkadakka.
2019/10/17 22:58:57
Subject: Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
Galas wrote: As sad as it sounds Seandrake was right when he says marines sales subsidize many other armies.
This seems like something of a positive feedback-loop though.
"Marines sell better!" ---> Marines get more models, rules and publicity while other armies are left to rot ---> Marines gain sails, other armies lose them ---> "Marines sell better!" ---> Marines get more models, rules and publicity while other armies are left to rot...
etc.
Basically, if Marines are the only army GW cares about and bothers giving new releases and publicity to, then of course they're going to sell better. Similarly, when other armies are just left to rot for years or even decades at a time, of course they're going to sell badly. Older players will either run out of stuff to buy or else simply get fed up of the lack of updates and abandon that army (or the game) altogether. And any newer player who askes for advice will quickly be told 'don't by these armies because GW doesn't give a s**t about them and can't be arsed updating them.'
I mean, take Phoenix Rising. It was one of the few releases in the last year that had basically nothing to do with Marines and was instead Eldar-focused. However, in spite of being advertised about 5 weeks in advance, every reveal for it was buried beneath a mountain of Marine news which inevitably overshadowed it completely.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2019/10/17 23:06:21
Subject: Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
You're acting like marine players don't post in threads that aren't abot maeine, and if anything any thread in General Discussion has a 70% percent chance of Martel, Xenomancer, Karol, or any other of the usual suspects running in screaming about space marines are the worst ever or you should be happy you get anything at all
well it is kind of a hard to match GK in 8th ed. Inari are probably on a similar tier, but they were great for like 2 years, so even that is hard to compare.
I mean, take Phoenix Rising. It was one of the few releases in the last year that had basically nothing to do with Marines and was instead Eldar-focused. However, in spite of being advertised about 5 weeks in advance, every reveal for it was buried beneath a mountain of Marine news which inevitably overshadowed it completely.
If it had good rules, and the box set wasn't so bad, we may have had 50 page threads about the new eldar. It is kind of a hard to comment on new eldar when old eldar have better rules. And the new starter box with vat here, costs as much as half of a good PC.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2019/10/17 23:14:29
Subject: Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
An Actual Englishman wrote: Why are you both ignoring the fact that my complaint has nothing to do with posters on forums discussing Marines and everything to do with GW's obsession with them? Why are you both attempting to strawman so desperately here?
Have either of you actually read my OP? If so, read it again.
Because I recognize the futility of attempting to curtail GW's 'obsession' of with creating more content about and/or for space marines. Games Workshop is gonna do what Games Workshop is gonna do. What we say here and/or do on Dakka Dakka ain't gonna change that. As I said, if you are fatigued, try to not visit the Games Workshop website or at very lest the stuff about space marines.
I don't think it's futile at all and I don't believe it's why you are strawmanning so hard either.
The SoB release that is coming up is entirely based on customer feedback. GW have said so themselves.
This thread is in some ways my feedback. If enough other people provide such feedback GW will react.
Now what possible reason could you have for strawmanning *looks at profile pic suspiciously*.
2019/10/17 23:16:20
Subject: Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
Only if the rules are bad, few people may buy the xeno, and if the rules are really bad, that if someone wants to start lets say necron, they can get the army from 2ed market, for a lot cheaper then store price.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2019/10/17 23:25:12
Subject: Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
I mean, take Phoenix Rising. It was one of the few releases in the last year that had basically nothing to do with Marines and was instead Eldar-focused. However, in spite of being advertised about 5 weeks in advance, every reveal for it was buried beneath a mountain of Marine news which inevitably overshadowed it completely.
I'd disagree with this. A lot of the "buried beneath a mountain of Marine news" is the result of the signal to noise ratio. There was a lot of "discussion", with a big chunk of it being complaints that it was doing exactly what you're talking about.
Never mind that there was a weekly preview for the Phoenix Rising, which could be relied upon. If it hadn't been for leaks, there wouldn't have been some foreknowledge of some of the Marine stuff as it was coming out and when.
That said, the Marine release was poorly handled. The Infiltrators/Incursors, Impulsor, Eliminators, and Reiver Lt. shouldn't have been tied to the releases of the supplements. They should have been done at the start alongside of the Invictor Warsuit and the two Phobos models from Shadowspear that got their releases.
The supplement releases might not have been as big of a deal if they were just a book, cards, and character.
2019/10/17 23:25:58
Subject: Re:Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
^ This thread alone started to make me realize there is a bit of marine entitlement / fascism running around dakka. I didn't post I just accepted it, it was fairly moderated to keep the thread to its name. People have a right to an opinion and to say it but apparently xenos aren't allowed to have one, and if you do they are allowed to walk into it and denounce it. I have actually started frequenting other forums like The Dark City and r/eldar. Even on those forums you still get IoM trolls, apologists & reactionaries like in this thread. But it is what it is.
OT: Yes there are severe signs of fatigue completely agree. I think they should of just rebooted the original dex. It was hard to deal with new models with new abilities and balance them with rules I get it. Marine's needed attention but they did not need supplementals. No OP you aren't alone just most people don't want the flack or to trivial argue with Mon-keigh that are so entitled to oppress opinions cause they believe you aren't entitled to have one in the first place... cause your race doesn't make the most sales remember /s. They say don't click on marine stuff if you don't want to read about it, but then again why are they here when they know it's going to be negative?
2019/10/17 23:39:37
Subject: Re:Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
Ishagu wrote: If people buy more Xenos, they'll get more Xenos.
That's the truth
If GW advertised more for xenos, people would buy more xenos. That's the truth too.
GW sells mostly Space Marines because that's about 50% of their entire model line, especially if you count their new models. GW sells mostly Space Marines because they want to sell mostly Space Marines and that's the sad part about it.
By providing lackluster or extremely delayed updates to other factions, GW prevents the creation and growth of the 40K community and instead only grows one of its arm, the one devoted to Space Marines, until that arm is basically the entire community, killing their game in the process.
That's why I think that the proposal of some to the people who got "Marine fatigue" to ignore those thread, while technically correct, is rather toxic and careless. It basically hush non-Marine fans or burnt-out fans off the general community of 40K by not providing a sense of inclusion, shared interest and participation. It's basically someone that if htey aren't happy to go somewhere else without even stopping to consider if the critique was legitimate or reasonnable and thus that something needed to be changed. It's assuming the critique is unreasonnable or illegitimate rejecting those concerns and, ultimately, those persons. That's basically how communities disolve themselves and 40K is a community centric game. You need a large player base and a community for this game to exist because of the cost to maintain it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/18 00:30:28
2019/10/18 00:31:50
Subject: Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
Galas wrote: As sad as it sounds Seandrake was right when he says marines sales subsidize many other armies.
This seems like something of a positive feedback-loop though.
"Marines sell better!" ---> Marines get more models, rules and publicity while other armies are left to rot ---> Marines gain sails, other armies lose them ---> "Marines sell better!" ---> Marines get more models, rules and publicity while other armies are left to rot...
etc.
Basically, if Marines are the only army GW cares about and bothers giving new releases and publicity to, then of course they're going to sell better. Similarly, when other armies are just left to rot for years or even decades at a time, of course they're going to sell badly. Older players will either run out of stuff to buy or else simply get fed up of the lack of updates and abandon that army (or the game) altogether. And any newer player who askes for advice will quickly be told 'don't by these armies because GW doesn't give a s**t about them and can't be arsed updating them.'
I mean, take Phoenix Rising. It was one of the few releases in the last year that had basically nothing to do with Marines and was instead Eldar-focused. However, in spite of being advertised about 5 weeks in advance, every reveal for it was buried beneath a mountain of Marine news which inevitably overshadowed it completely.
You would be surprised how many corporations try to make something popular but it totally fails.
Space Marines are loved by the public, thats a fact. GW supporting them helps but it has nothing to do with their populary that has been massive since day 1, when space marines weren't really more supported than other factions.
GW created space marines following the tought guy in plate armour that was so popular with Chaos Warrior in Fantasy, and this was said by GW themselves. So they were based in a proven concept that was the most popular thing in fantasy, thats why since day 1 they have been the most popular thing in 40k.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2019/10/18 00:40:45
Subject: Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
Thing as well is that "Xenos" is a very loose collection of factions that have little in common other than not being humans or chaos. Necron releases do nothing for Tau, Eldar stuff doesn't benefit the Nids, etc. Even then those who play pure Dark Eldar, pure Chaos daemons, even pure (insert IoM faction here) don't really benefit from marine content spam. End of the day GW makes all these product lines, keeps adding new product lines, and yet they cannot support all of them properly because they flood their release calander with marine gak (even the real Marines are getting hosed by numarines).
"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise"
2019/10/18 01:14:20
Subject: Re:Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
^ This thread alone started to make me realize there is a bit of marine entitlement / fascism running around dakka. I didn't post I just accepted it, it was fairly moderated to keep the thread to its name. People have a right to an opinion and to say it but apparently xenos aren't allowed to have one, and if you do they are allowed to walk into it and denounce it. I have actually started frequenting other forums like The Dark City and r/eldar. Even on those forums you still get IoM trolls, apologists & reactionaries like in this thread. But it is what it is.
OT: Yes there are severe signs of fatigue completely agree. I think they should of just rebooted the original dex. It was hard to deal with new models with new abilities and balance them with rules I get it. Marine's needed attention but they did not need supplementals. No OP you aren't alone just most people don't want the flack or to trivial argue with Mon-keigh that are so entitled to oppress opinions cause they believe you aren't entitled to have one in the first place... cause your race doesn't make the most sales remember /s. They say don't click on marine stuff if you don't want to read about it, but then again why are they here when they know it's going to be negative?
dude all that thread does is ask to have a conversation about Primaris Marines without getting flooded with "I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT PRIMARIS MARINES BECAUSE I HATE THEM AND REFUSE TO LEARN ANYTHING ABOUT THEM" posts. It was started after we'd had 5 or 6 "I hate Primaris" posts started that got kinda tiresome. And ya know what? this is something marine players over all seem to have to deal with. No one else has their army subjected to threads about how much they hate it. when's the last time you saw a post that amounted to "I HATE ORKS AND YOU SUCK FOR LIKING THEM?"
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2019/10/18 01:25:57
Subject: Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
An Actual Englishman wrote: Why are you both ignoring the fact that my complaint has nothing to do with posters on forums discussing Marines and everything to do with GW's obsession with them? Why are you both attempting to strawman so desperately here?
Have either of you actually read my OP? If so, read it again.
Because I recognize the futility of attempting to curtail GW's 'obsession' of with creating more content about and/or for space marines. Games Workshop is gonna do what Games Workshop is gonna do. What we say here and/or do on Dakka Dakka ain't gonna change that. As I said, if you are fatigued, try to not visit the Games Workshop website or at very lest the stuff about space marines.
I don't think it's futile at all and I don't believe it's why you are strawmanning so hard either.
The SoB release that is coming up is entirely based on customer feedback. GW have said so themselves.
This thread is in some ways my feedback. If enough other people provide such feedback GW will react.
Now what possible reason could you have for strawmanning *looks at profile pic suspiciously*.
Well, I was going to wait until I was a little farther along with my GSC army, but I guess I can change it now. I play a bunch of factions and I am not as dyed in the wool concerning one faction over another as you might think. I have also nearly played more games as Orks than I have all variety of space marines this year. Neat little sidenote: did you know that Dakka Dakka doesn't have a Ranking system for Genestealer Cults?
As for the Sisters of Battle, that was how many years of complaining about them needing new models? There was a meme video for a reason on that. And that was a specific faction that was being asked of GW. This thread is just GW should do less for space marines. That rather nebulous and again reeks of crab mentality. What feedback do you want from me (or anyone in this thread for that matter) to pass on GW. Last survey I commented that I would like everything in finecast to eventually get made in plastic and complained that prices were too high for new players. I suppose the new Eldar stuff is some forward progress on the first, but since the survey even the old kits went up in price. 1 step forward, 2 steps back I guess.
If you really want to get collective feedback I would suggest being a little more specific and/or try to not have negative requests (read: no more of X factions). As mentioned, if you really want to get something more than marines, you are probably going to have to convince GW consumers to spend more on non-space marine products. Heck, as indicated with the profile pic change, I am already doing that with a GSC army. So you are kinda firing into your own ranks by being so aggressive toward me.
You also should hope that the Sisters of Battle release goes very well as they are probably going to be used a barometer to GW to see if it is indeed worthwhile to update old model lines. I am neutral toward the models myself, but I do hope they reveal insight to customer base and maybe have GW take additional risks in updating other model lines in the future. Because most definitely concerning GW, money talks and just talk walks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/18 01:52:49
2019/10/18 01:37:01
Subject: Re:Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
I too am over it. From Knights being talked about more than Orks in Orktober (lmao), to Psychic Awakening being announced as "thE nExT BiGgEsT tHiNg" and no news other than marine releases.
The fact of the matter is Xenos is basically unsupported and because GW have rebranded each different flavour of candy as a completely different candy product we no have to sit through this continous droll of them supporting each individual one more than the whole xenos archetype.
But alas, it's a self perpetuating cycle:
- Ork products released in november didnt sell well so lets not release orks anymore
- That one new cryptek model that absolutely no one asked for didn't sell well so lets not do any new necron releases
- We keep releasing new mehreen stuff and all the competitive players are buying it all up!
Actually, I was thinking of this as I was typing it out. It wouldn't sting so damn much if there was a *modicum* of communication.
Just... Something?
BrianDavion wrote: when's the last time you saw a post that amounted to "I HATE ORKS AND YOU SUCK FOR LIKING THEM?"
Quite a lot actually.
Anyone remember that thread talking about the fair pricing of big shootas? Or the thread where lolmaniac said he can't play this his toys anymore and was basically told to put up and shut up?
2019/10/18 04:42:04
Subject: Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
Galas wrote: As sad as it sounds Seandrake was right when he says marines sales subsidize many other armies.
This seems like something of a positive feedback-loop though.
"Marines sell better!" ---> Marines get more models, rules and publicity while other armies are left to rot ---> Marines gain sails, other armies lose them ---> "Marines sell better!" ---> Marines get more models, rules and publicity while other armies are left to rot...
etc.
Basically, if Marines are the only army GW cares about and bothers giving new releases and publicity to, then of course they're going to sell better. Similarly, when other armies are just left to rot for years or even decades at a time, of course they're going to sell badly. Older players will either run out of stuff to buy or else simply get fed up of the lack of updates and abandon that army (or the game) altogether. And any newer player who askes for advice will quickly be told 'don't by these armies because GW doesn't give a s**t about them and can't be arsed updating them.'
I mean, take Phoenix Rising. It was one of the few releases in the last year that had basically nothing to do with Marines and was instead Eldar-focused. However, in spite of being advertised about 5 weeks in advance, every reveal for it was buried beneath a mountain of Marine news which inevitably overshadowed it completely.
You would be surprised how many corporations try to make something popular but it totally fails.
Space Marines are loved by the public, thats a fact.
It is true that Space Marines are very popular.
But the product is also the hype, in the case of 40K. Good stories/artwork/background about a faction can inspire people to collect a faction. No stories/artwork/imagery about a faction, or stories where said faction is merely a punching bag for Space Marines, does not do a very good job of selling a faction. Of the Black Library novels out there, what is the percentage devoted to marines? The Horus Heresey novels definitely sold armies.
Game-wise, it's also an issue. This is part of my huge dislike of the Primaris Statline. It diminishes the standing of other factions when compared to marines. I loved it when the basic Necron Warrior was 18 points to the Marine 15, because the basic Necron Warrior was actually better than the Marine. It makes the faction feel like a bigger threat or wield more gravitas. The Monolith was the biggest standard 40K model when it came out, and is still larger than many superheavies. But the Monolith is a shoddy unit by many accounts, and Necron Warriors have dropped in value, etc. I'd be more interested in (re)collecting Necrons if I felt like GW was giving them their due. Unfortunately not much exciting is happening for them, and GW has since diminished much of what brought me to them in the first place. Warriors and Immortals are lessened, Monoliths aren't as useful and aren't seen in many armies, the C'tan are re-written, no Pariahs, etc.
BrianDavion wrote: when's the last time you saw a post that amounted to "I HATE ORKS AND YOU SUCK FOR LIKING THEM?"
Quite a lot actually.
Anyone remember that thread talking about the fair pricing of big shootas? Or the thread where lolmaniac said he can't play this his toys anymore and was basically told to put up and shut up?
I definitely recall seeing threads reading something like "Orks do not belong in 40K".
Primaris should not have happened. A RealMarine re-sculpt is what should have happened instead. People would have bought that up just fine.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/10/18 04:44:40
Ishagu wrote: Marines sell well. GW just had an Eldar release, peopled weren't excited and did a lot of complaining.
I mean, I can't speak for every eldar player, but I'm not excited because I can't yet buy any of the new stuff.
it's only in a ridiculously expensive box set full of crappy units I already own.
I'd buy the new Drazar, or maybe the new Incubi, possibly even the new banshees as well once my paint backlog clears up a little more. But as of right now, I can't. So, hype level pretty much 0.
I think he means you should just be grateful they even bothered to show the naughty and less naughty space elves some love. You should have all, me included, bought it up, and thanked them for their love and grace in giving us such an awful box with some new models. It was all bundled so we didn't need to make the tough choices of buying what we wanted, or making multiple choices. It was for our own good and we should have embraced it, they knew what we need. The box was our Brawndo, and it's got what Eldar players crave. Hope that helps clear it up.
2019/10/18 06:44:37
Subject: Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
Okay. Haven't read the whole thread, but tried to read most. Negativity gets to me.
I've been waiting since 95 for GSC and since 2003 for sisters. I've already got one [and I LOVE it!]. The other drops in November. And that is freakin fantastic. Not sure I could be happier.
I've wanted to play both Eldar and Dark Eldar forever, but never bought anything; I've always hated resin, but Banshees and Incubi were actually two of my favourite units. And as for those falcons and vypers everyone has already? I don't. And I want them. And now I'm going to get them.
You can't say Xenos aren't supported after the PA drops. You can complain about the cost of the box, or even its contents. But four new units, a box set and a campaign book is NOT unsupported.
Did they talk about marines in Orktober? Sure. But you know what didn't happen? They didn't get a marines vs marines stand alone game with loads of new vehicle kits. but I seem to recall that happening for Orks, so again, NOT unsupported.
I too was POed about losses to Dark Eldar, but as much as I love Baron Sathonyx, Lady Malys, Duke Sliscus and Keradruahk, none of them ever had models, so it's not actually as much of a loss as it is made out to be. Yes, it probably means they are less likely to be realized, but I still have hope. The revival of the GSC after 22 years really does mean this edition is different and anything really is possible.
Heck, you've got a choice now between 3 different Rogue Traders for cryin out loud!
I also don't think it's at all fair to talk about the success or failure of PA after one book out of what will probably end up being a ten book set.
You know, I've lived through editions that felt far more marine dominant than this one. And under previous editions, there was always this threat of the dreaded reset button that would mean living through all those marine releases AGAIN, which was utterly terrifying. It's why I get filled with dread every time I see a thread wishing for a 9th ed. Because THAT is what leads to the marine spam more than anything else. I think GW has learned that the only way we're ever gonna get to Tau auxilia is if an edition lasts for a decade or so, and really? Hopefully the rest of my lifetime.
I bought enough product from this edition, and intend to continue doing so for as long as I am able, that I can single handedly supply my entire small group of friends with enough rules and models to keep us playing for as long as we have the will.
As for the GK/DW should not be their own armies arguments, I have to struggle to control my rage every time I see it. I want these armies, and I could care less that they don't win tournaments. They tell stories I want told, and I'm ecstatic that they exist- ESPECIALLY DW because back in the Witch Hunters/ Daemon Hunter days, they never got around to Xenos Hunters because of a stupid freakin edition reset. So technically that's a third army that I've been waiting for since the early 2000's that this addition has given me at last!
So forgive me if I say how dare you suggest they take away things I've wanted for decades now that I finally have them.
And we will get an Imperial Agents dex- the Apocalypse rules got a set of Imperial Agents cards as a free PDF. So far, they've laid the groundwork for Rogue Traders,Assassins and SoS; Inquistion is in next month's WD to finish off the set. I figure January might be the next PA drop, and it may be Imperial Agents. It will also coincide with the second wave of Sisters releases whenever it happens.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/10/18 07:10:30
2019/10/18 06:50:03
Subject: Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
Ishagu wrote: Marines sell well. GW just had an Eldar release, peopled weren't excited and did a lot of complaining.
I mean, I can't speak for every eldar player, but I'm not excited because I can't yet buy any of the new stuff.
it's only in a ridiculously expensive box set full of crappy units I already own.
I'd buy the new Drazar, or maybe the new Incubi, possibly even the new banshees as well once my paint backlog clears up a little more. But as of right now, I can't. So, hype level pretty much 0.
I think he means you should just be grateful they even bothered to show the naughty and less naughty space elves some love. You should have all, me included, bought it up, and thanked them for their love and grace in giving us such an awful box with some new models. It was all bundled so we didn't need to make the tough choices of buying what we wanted, or making multiple choices. It was for our own good and we should have embraced it, they knew what we need. The box was our Brawndo, and it's got what Eldar players crave. Hope that helps clear it up.
you make it sound like Eldar are the only army in 40k whose even been given their unit in a box first, Shadowspear came out nine months ago.. and Infiltrators are only just coming up for pre-order
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2019/10/18 07:03:36
Subject: Marine Fatigue and it's affect on the hobby
The problem is GW support their product lines differently but treat them the same.
40k is a choose your own faction system, so the games don't distinguish between the armies.
GW is a promote marines and sell them as much as possible company.
These two perspectives are at odds with one another.
No where does GW distinguish their product lines from one another to the consumer, everything is sold as if they are all equivalent.
If I were selling 3 similar cars at similar prices buy only one had after sales service, parts etc, which one looks more attractive?
If GW wanted to align their business strategy with their product strategy they have a few options:
They can refocus the business strategy to align it with their product and market/invest in all their lines equally
They can rebrand their product line to match their current business strategy - basically treat 40k like space Hulk where the game is sold as "you are marines - take turns to see how much better you are at killing the baddies than your mates!"
And thus sell marines as your actual army and all the non marines as mook forces you get to vs your friends so they can use their marines.
In this scenario all non loyalist marines become cheaper, worse and simpler because they are the npcs you take turns killing.
GWs current business strategy is aligned to the latter but their product is still sold and marketed like the former.
Ishagu wrote: Marines sell well. GW just had an Eldar release, peopled weren't excited and did a lot of complaining.
I mean, I can't speak for every eldar player, but I'm not excited because I can't yet buy any of the new stuff.
it's only in a ridiculously expensive box set full of crappy units I already own.
I'd buy the new Drazar, or maybe the new Incubi, possibly even the new banshees as well once my paint backlog clears up a little more. But as of right now, I can't. So, hype level pretty much 0.
I think he means you should just be grateful they even bothered to show the naughty and less naughty space elves some love. You should have all, me included, bought it up, and thanked them for their love and grace in giving us such an awful box with some new models. It was all bundled so we didn't need to make the tough choices of buying what we wanted, or making multiple choices. It was for our own good and we should have embraced it, they knew what we need. The box was our Brawndo, and it's got what Eldar players crave. Hope that helps clear it up.
you make it sound like Eldar are the only army in 40k whose even been given their unit in a box first, Shadowspear came out nine months ago.. and Infiltrators are only just coming up for pre-order
The problem here is that you're basically complaining that your 3rd car has some rust on it while everyone else just wants a first car...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/10/18 07:07:21
You keep on and on with that. Listen, let me build you a bridge so you can get over that. It was a crap box, that is what people are mad about. Had it been a great priced box, with sweet options, people would have said it was great.
It wasn't, as well these are models left to stagnate so long the originals may be able to drink on their own, or watch an R rated move without an adult. To place them in such an awful expensive box with crap selection is what people, me included, dislike.
Just because they do it with other factions doesn't make it better. Sometimes existing patterns can be kinda crap yes ? Just saying its a pattern doesn't mean its good or even mean you can't dislike it.
I would say you'd be hard pressed to find a post one from me disliking the shadowspear box, as you like to strut that one out there over and over and over. I bought it, but that is because it felt like a savings, the models for the most part had a point and it felt agreeable even if it was the first showing of some units. This eldar box, was not that. It was/is an over expensive grab bag of back stock with the only sell point being some redone models.
Hell even if they had made the whole kit nothing but new models I bet you people would have liked it more even with the price tag for that reason alone. The eldar box was not this, it was poopy poop the poop box.
Edit: @ Brian Davion
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/10/18 07:12:12
Bonespitta's Badmoons 1441 pts. 
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ 
+ 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise" 
