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Ginjitzu wrote:

Karol wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Nobody buys CA only for the points. Or if they do they have too much money, as you can get that information within few hours after release via Battlescribe.
In last years CA the missions were important but more so the refined terrain rules for the base game as well as Cities of Death.
In our group we also used the veteran rules but I can see that they're not that relevant for pure tournament players.

I happen to have a limited amount of money. And I bought the first CA just for the point changes. Same as everyone here. And absolutly no one in my area used the city death rules, the design your land raider etc stuff. CA just like a codex is required to play, and in case of my store you need physical copy of rules, or you are not allowed to use the store tables.

To be fair though, most of your posts make you sound like you live in a tragic drama about the 1970s Soviet Union. Your experience probably isn't a reflection of most people in general.

In my local store, the owner bought a copy of Chapter Approved and just left it there for everyone to use. As far as I know, no one has used anything outside of the missions. We all use Battle Scribe to build our lists.

Same at my store. Everyone uses datacards + battlescribe for their faction rules. (I still bring my codexes at the very least and theres a computer available of we ever have to dig in a faq to find a new rules update)

oni wrote:I hope that AdMech rumor is bogus or includes Questor Mechanicus. Not being able to include Imperial Knights with AdMech will kill the faction.

not really, admech is at its strongest when ran as monofaction anyway, knights die too quickly and when they do, you lose a big part of your army.

Nibbler wrote:
https://www.bilder-upload.eu/bild-fa68a8-1574328335.jpeg.html

found this in a german forum... not sure if it's legit.

honestly this reads like something deliberatly designed to trigger people.

I mean no points change to CSMs, across the board points drops to space marines?

honestly if thats the case then CA 2019 is gonna be DOA.

 Elbows wrote:
I would rather not see 2W cult troops. That would murder CSM even more than they already are. However, that may be the goal? Death Guard and Thousand Sons would become immensely better. They're both brand new model lines. Basic CSM would disappear from the face of the game, particularly if Cultists drop back down to 4 points (which they should).

I say this as a Renegade player who runs the occasional squad of Plague Marines. Seeing them boosted would murder any enthusiasm I have for putting normal CSMs on the table.

If GW is smart I do think they need to introduce a Doctrine style thing to all of the factions. The power gulf is too much at the moment with Space Marines head and shoulders above other factions. I'm not really even playing much any more, but the game needs some work, for sure.

But they'd only be Troops for DG, Tsons, WE or EC respectively. They'd be Elites still for all other legions/warbands, including Renegades. So assuming Chaos Marines get a points drop, there really isn't much competition between them. And if we also give Chosen 2W, Chaos would have "proper" Primaris equivalents

-

So you would run them in a vanguard detachment and then a battalion with 4pts cultists?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ginjitzu wrote:
To be fair though, most of your posts make you sound like you live in a tragic drama about the 1970s Soviet Union. Your experience probably isn't a reflection of most people in general.

In my local store, the owner bought a copy of Chapter Approved and just left it there for everyone to use. As far as I know, no one has used anything outside of the missions. We all use Battle Scribe to build our lists.

You think that in soviet union, the soviet public television was making series about how tough the life in soviet union is? If your a russian ex pat then your a bad one.

 Galef wrote:
But they'd only be Troops for DG, Tsons, WE or EC respectively. They'd be Elites still for all other legions/warbands, including Renegades. So assuming Chaos Marines get a points drop, there really isn't much competition between them. And if we also give Chosen 2W, Chaos would have "proper" Primaris equivalents

I'm pretty skeptical that this is happening, it's such a half-baked concept. So what happens for Cult terminators? What happens for normal terminators? Do they increase Chosen? Possessed? I don't really see them going through every unit that should be affected by a change like this and making adjustments.

CA2019 is going to be Legends and points adjustments I suspect, anything else is just wishful thinking.

BrianDavion wrote:

Nibbler wrote:
https://www.bilder-upload.eu/bild-fa68a8-1574328335.jpeg.html

found this in a german forum... not sure if it's legit.

honestly this reads like something deliberatly designed to trigger people.

I mean no points change to CSMs, across the board points drops to space marines?

honestly if thats the case then CA 2019 is gonna be DOA.

I'm not going to lie, part of me wants this to happen just to show how doing a once a year update in print form, so it has to be written months in advance, is useless because it's fixing things from months ago that likely no longer even matter.

Making 4ppm troops 5ppm is a step in the right direction... and as a chaos player, I feel like cultists should be worse as a troop option than guardsmen... not significantly so as more expensive, and no special rules, no orders, all at the same time, but GEQ should not be the go to troop option of a a space marine army. The only thing that makes me regret those feelings is that the imperial guard works with the space marines in soup lists, so my caveat is that renegade and heretics should be brought up to approximately the same level as guard so we have access to the same sort of soup. Or balance cultists against guard in cheaper point cost but no special rules...

 Elbows wrote:
I would rather not see 2W cult troops. That would murder CSM even more than they already are. However, that may be the goal? Death Guard and Thousand Sons would become immensely better. They're both brand new model lines. Basic CSM would disappear from the face of the game, particularly if Cultists drop back down to 4 points (which they should).

I say this as a Renegade player who runs the occasional squad of Plague Marines. Seeing them boosted would murder any enthusiasm I have for putting normal CSMs on the table.

If GW is smart I do think they need to introduce a Doctrine style thing to all of the factions. The power gulf is too much at the moment with Space Marines head and shoulders above other factions. I'm not really even playing much any more, but the game needs some work, for sure.

CSM is also a brand new model line? They have as many, if not more, kits than Thousand Sons. DG certainly have quite a few though, but there is no consistent logic to that statement.

CSM also has access to cult troops - troops they rarely use. I wouldn't mind Rubrics and PM being used in BL again. Rubrics would suddenly be a bear of an objective holder and it isn't like losing +6" to spells kills them for that purpose.

Apostle
MoP
Sorcerer
CSM
Abaddon
Termies
Havocs
VC
Oblits

vs

Ahriman
Exalted
Rubrics
Scarabs
Magnus
Tzaangors
Shaman
Enlightened


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Galef wrote:
But they'd only be Troops for DG, Tsons, WE or EC respectively. They'd be Elites still for all other legions/warbands, including Renegades. So assuming Chaos Marines get a points drop, there really isn't much competition between them. And if we also give Chosen 2W, Chaos would have "proper" Primaris equivalents

I'm pretty skeptical that this is happening, it's such a half-baked concept. So what happens for Cult terminators? What happens for normal terminators? Do they increase Chosen? Possessed? I don't really see them going through every unit that should be affected by a change like this and making adjustments.

CA2019 is going to be Legends and points adjustments I suspect, anything else is just wishful thinking.

I personally wouldn't complain about Scarabs and Deathshroud being W3. But it does otherwise cause some internal balance issues for CSM. I'm not sure points solves all of it, but the flexibility of Chosen has its own value. Possessed would likely stay. CSM are already looked over - marines are 12 now, but CSM should honestly be cheaper with the doctrine disparity.

 oni wrote:
I hope that AdMech rumor is bogus or includes Questor Mechanicus. Not being able to include Imperial Knights with AdMech will kill the faction.

I don't see how they couldn't include Imperial Knights, I mean they're in the codex itself; GW had done some strange things in the past but....

There's a disturbing bit in the latest WD, Codex: Inquisition under Authority of the Inquisition

"..That INQUISITOR unit does not prevent other units in your army benefiting from Detachment abilities (e.g. Chapter Tactics) and does not prevent abilities that require every model in your army to have that ability (e.g. Combat Doctrines, Canticles of the Omnissiah)."

This wouldn't be necessary with the current version of Canticles.

So what would that mean, finally an end to cross-detachment soup? AKA the fix battle brothers should have been years ago?

Or just a nerf to Admech?

Kitane wrote:
There's a disturbing bit in the latest WD, Codex: Inquisition under Authority of the Inquisition

"..That INQUISITOR unit does not prevent other units in your army benefiting from Detachment abilities (e.g. Chapter Tactics) and does not prevent abilities that require every model in your army to have that ability (e.g. Combat Doctrines, Canticles of the Omnissiah)."

This wouldn't be necessary with the current version of Canticles.

I still refuse to believe this rumour. There's now way Games Workshop would be THAT stupid. Maybe just future-proofing.

Darsath wrote:

Kitane wrote:
There's a disturbing bit in the latest WD, Codex: Inquisition under Authority of the Inquisition

"..That INQUISITOR unit does not prevent other units in your army benefiting from Detachment abilities (e.g. Chapter Tactics) and does not prevent abilities that require every model in your army to have that ability (e.g. Combat Doctrines, Canticles of the Omnissiah)."

This wouldn't be necessary with the current version of Canticles.

I still refuse to believe this rumour. There's now way Games Workshop would be THAT stupid. Maybe just future-proofing.

IF they end up going for that nerf, i expect that its because canticle got reworked. at the moment, its a pretty gak faction bonus when compared to all the stuff numarines get. Yes, shroudpsalm and reroll 1's is good, the rest are.... meh.

The codex is out already, that piece could be used to craft a convincing rumor. I mean, it does sound absolutely stupid. Even for GW.

But if it's true, I can imagine that GW is currently that guy crushed by Austin Powels on a steamroller, screaming while the inevitable release of CA19 is getting closer and closer.

Also...termagants for 5 points? Really? What's next, 6 point hormies and 7 point gargoyles?

Kitane wrote:
There's a disturbing bit in the latest WD, Codex: Inquisition under Authority of the Inquisition

"..That INQUISITOR unit does not prevent other units in your army benefiting from Detachment abilities (e.g. Chapter Tactics) and does not prevent abilities that require every model in your army to have that ability (e.g. Combat Doctrines, Canticles of the Omnissiah)."

This wouldn't be necessary with the current version of Canticles.

Current wording on Canticles of the Omnisiah - "If you have a Battle-forged army, units only receive the bonus if every model in their Detachment has this ability." It seams they should have included this in the Detachment wide example instead of the army-wide example, the way I read it.

 Elbows wrote:
Thousand Sons would become immensely better.

For once the army with two wounds might actually have something going for it...

Darsath wrote:

Kitane wrote:
There's a disturbing bit in the latest WD, Codex: Inquisition under Authority of the Inquisition

"..That INQUISITOR unit does not prevent other units in your army benefiting from Detachment abilities (e.g. Chapter Tactics) and does not prevent abilities that require every model in your army to have that ability (e.g. Combat Doctrines, Canticles of the Omnissiah)."

This wouldn't be necessary with the current version of Canticles.

I still refuse to believe this rumour. There's now way Games Workshop would be THAT stupid. Maybe just future-proofing.

>points at 7th edition, scatbikes, Lashprinces, and even the last Ca hiking the price on R&H cultists, which are even worse then their CSM counterpart..



Are you sure about that?

i'd say it is distinctly a possibility.

It's possible. The only reason I can think of to do it would be for it to work like the "mono" bonuses Marines get. But, unless they get a significant buff as well, I don't see the point in it.

Another possibility is that GW is going to add a few new Canticles to your list that only work in Mono. So, it's not necessarily a bad thing.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Nobody buys CA only for the points. Or if they do they have too much money, as you can get that information within few hours after release via Battlescribe.

For that matter I can also get the rest of the book without paying for it if I choose to....

Legends is getting introduced in the new Chapter Approved.

Marines will get some point drops?

Some changes to rebalance faction units.

 Ishagu wrote:
Marines will get some point drops?

Yeah, let's hope not. They're ridiculous at CURRENT points values.

I think Marines are too close to their release date to realistically see any kind of point adjustments in CA. Especially if the book IS written months in advance. But, this is GW, and trying to predict what they'll do is like trying to figure out what the weather will be next week on an exoplanet we haven't discovered yet.

Let that rumor rest guys.

It is an obvious fake from so many points of view...


EDIT: AAaaand rumor debunked from the usual French source, not much of a surprise.

ccs wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Nobody buys CA only for the points. Or if they do they have too much money, as you can get that information within few hours after release via Battlescribe.

For that matter I can also get the rest of the book without paying for it if I choose to....

Of course you can. But that other information is not automatically inserted in the army builder most people use. Really, I never even looked at the points pages of either CA, but read all the other, far more interesting stuff. Yet Dakka year after year discusses only these, which seems pretty strange to me. Even if you care for organized matched play only at least the missions and Updates to terrain rules should be of more interest than some arbitrary points that may be outdated 3 - 12 months later anyway.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Marines will get some point drops?

Yeah, let's hope not. They're ridiculous at CURRENT points values.

If CA is reacting to meta 4-5 months ago, then who knows, they very well maybe point drops on marines stuff. At the same time eldar and tau, could get a points bump.

Karol wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Marines will get some point drops?

Yeah, let's hope not. They're ridiculous at CURRENT points values.

If CA is reacting to meta 4-5 months ago, then who knows, they very well maybe point drops on marines stuff. At the same time eldar and tau, could get a points bump.

LOGIC dictates that they simply don't touch points costs for any thing that's being worked on by anothet team for a new codex between that time, trusting the new codex to address any points disreprencies needed (and passing along any relevant data that was assmbled) but well... logic doesn't always apply/

Karol wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Marines will get some point drops?

Yeah, let's hope not. They're ridiculous at CURRENT points values.

If CA is reacting to meta 4-5 months ago, then who knows, they very well maybe point drops on marines stuff. At the same time eldar and tau, could get a points bump.

I think eldar flyers will definately be getting a points bump, similarly to what they did to the Castellan. Even afrer the nerfs they bumped points also.

I think some aspect warriors, nidd, death company and csm models (Dark Apostle, CSM and cultists) could see a little drop to coincide with psychic awakening.

Karol wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Marines will get some point drops?

Yeah, let's hope not. They're ridiculous at CURRENT points values.

If CA is reacting to meta 4-5 months ago, then who knows, they very well maybe point drops on marines stuff. At the same time eldar and tau, could get a points bump.

Yes, production time means CA is reacting to an old Meta but they know the SM books are going to come out before CA while writing it so it won't include changes for them.
In the same way that Ca2018 did not include any changes for Orks because they released in November.

(and yes I kind of expect a points increase for Eldar flyers because on their perceived dominance before the SM codex)

I don't think that is how GW works. Just because they know something was bad or good 6months in the past, but supposed to be fixed or not now, doesn't mean they are going to be reacting to the stuff now. I mean when knights came out, they knew the rules way in advance, and that the meta will shift. But the CA and FAQ following the knight book did nothing to knights, but a lot older meta armies, which often were already being demolished by knights at that time.

But I do hope you are right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

Karol wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Marines will get some point drops?

Yeah, let's hope not. They're ridiculous at CURRENT points values.

If CA is reacting to meta 4-5 months ago, then who knows, they very well maybe point drops on marines stuff. At the same time eldar and tau, could get a points bump.

LOGIC dictates that they simply don't touch points costs for any thing that's being worked on by anothet team for a new codex between that time, trusting the new codex to address any points disreprencies needed (and passing along any relevant data that was assmbled) but well... logic doesn't always apply/

Isn't the whole stupido like a handful of dudes, and even those are split between AoS, w40k and the side games GW makes. It would make it harder to pull off, unless they hired a second team or kicked out the old one. Plus from that articles someone posted a week or so ago, GW logic is sound and focused on marketing. If something is going to be bought in multiples, by many people, then it is great. The more sold the better.

Karol wrote:
Isn't the whole stupido like a handful of dudes, and even those are split between AoS, w40k and the side games GW makes. It would make it harder to pull off, unless they hired a second team or kicked out the old one. Plus from that articles someone posted a week or so ago, GW logic is sound and focused on marketing. If something is going to be bought in multiples, by many people, then it is great. The more sold the better.

There are separate teams now for 40k and AOS. The issue is the 40k team is all the old guys from 6th and 7th (Cruddace, Grant, maybe *shudder* Ward again) while the AOS team has a lot of new faces many of whom are also tournament players.