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Unit1126PLL wrote: So why is it suddenly unimmersive for her to survive ... in the fluff?
Because I didn't know that the TT stats applied directly to the fluff..
Anyway, I found the quote:
Spoiler:
Before she could recover, Khaygis found her fallen sword and broke it in two with a stamp of his foot. She managed to scramble to her feet, cursing him.
He gave her the grace of another arrow in the chest, the kinetic force of the dart impact throwing her over the battlements of the hovering Monolith. She clattered into the rubble below, leaving trails of blood across the broken stone.
Bolt-shells cracked off the black stone crenels around him, but he paid them no heed. The clarion of alarms in his thoughts was growing louder and more insistent by the second, and he struggled to maintain his focus. The nemesor’s mind needed to be here in the battle-zone, not torn between this place and the unfolding situation in the orbital complex.
He leapt down from his vantage point and went after the human commander on foot. To kill her in brutal fashion would break the will of her troops to fight on, and the necrons would be able to complete their cull of this place swiftly. This time, it would be done correctly, and with thoroughness.
Canoness > mountain > titan.
The imperium would be saved if only crawl could just figure out how to make armor out of canonesses.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/12/06 22:21:54
Unit1126PLL wrote: So why is it suddenly unimmersive for her to survive ... in the fluff?
Because I didn't know that the TT stats applied directly to the fluff..
Anyway, I found the quote:
Spoiler:
Before she could recover, Khaygis found her fallen sword and broke it in two with a stamp of his foot. She managed to scramble to her feet, cursing him.
He gave her the grace of another arrow in the chest, the kinetic force of the dart impact throwing her over the battlements of the hovering Monolith. She clattered into the rubble below, leaving trails of blood across the broken stone.
Bolt-shells cracked off the black stone crenels around him, but he paid them no heed. The clarion of alarms in his thoughts was growing louder and more insistent by the second, and he struggled to maintain his focus. The nemesor’s mind needed to be here in the battle-zone, not torn between this place and the unfolding situation in the orbital complex.
He leapt down from his vantage point and went after the human commander on foot. To kill her in brutal fashion would break the will of her troops to fight on, and the necrons would be able to complete their cull of this place swiftly. This time, it would be done correctly, and with thoroughness.
Canoness > mountain > titan.
The imperium would be saved if only crawl could just figure out how to make armor out of canoness.
I personnaly saw the tachyon arrow as "overkill". It travelled so fast, it basically pierced the canoness' armor and flesh clean through avoiding any major organ and only throwing her off balance as it exited her body. I don't think the arrow has an explosive charge or anything, it's just hyper fast. That or Matt Ward, Andy Hoar and McNeil didn't explain Swallow the concept of the tachyon arrow properly. He does credit them at the end of the book "for all things Necron". I'm pretty sure Hammer and Andvil was released pretty much at the same time than the newcrons and they were used as enemies for promotionnal purpose.
Unit1126PLL wrote: So why is it suddenly unimmersive for her to survive ... in the fluff?
Because I didn't know that the TT stats applied directly to the fluff..
I mean, the fluff says its possible and the TT says it's possible. It sounds like the only thing that disagrees with what happened is your mind - because it's both fluffy and mechanically sound.
Before she could recover, Khaygis found her fallen sword and broke it in two with a stamp of his foot. She managed to scramble to her feet, cursing him.
He gave her the grace of another arrow in the chest, the kinetic force of the dart impact throwing her over the battlements of the hovering Monolith. She clattered into the rubble below, leaving trails of blood across the broken stone.
Bolt-shells cracked off the black stone crenels around him, but he paid them no heed. The clarion of alarms in his thoughts was growing louder and more insistent by the second, and he struggled to maintain his focus. The nemesor’s mind needed to be here in the battle-zone, not torn between this place and the unfolding situation in the orbital complex.
He leapt down from his vantage point and went after the human commander on foot. To kill her in brutal fashion would break the will of her troops to fight on, and the necrons would be able to complete their cull of this place swiftly. This time, it would be done correctly, and with thoroughness.
Canoness > mountain > titan.
I don't really see the problem with it.
Andersp90 wrote: The imperium would be saved if only crawl could just figure out how to make armor out of canonesses.
If you actually cared about the fluff (rather than simply complaining because you don't like sisters or whatever the problem is) you'd realize that what protects them is faith, rather than armor, and that's not something Cawl can replicate. But yes, if all of humanity could replicate the faith that the Adepta Sororitas share, the Imperium would be saved. That's literally the point.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/06 23:02:25
It sounds like the only thing that disagrees with what happened is your mind - because it's both fluffy and mechanically sound
Like I stated in an ealier post, if this was represented as a miracle, I wouldn't mind that she survived a blast from something that beats a lascannon in power. But that just isn't the case here.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/06 23:33:47
BrianDavion wrote: should the action have stopped while angels sung on high and everyone screamed "IT'S A MIRACLE!" ?
You could have her praying to the emperor for the duration of the fight, while her rosarius (if she had one) glowed brighter and brighter with holy light, saving her from an otherwise fatal blow in the end.. or something along those lines.
Her just getting up willy nilly after taking a S10 AP1 blast to the chest at point blank range - with no explanation as to how on earth she survived - simply doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Togusa wrote: a group of imperial children were able to disable an eldar tank. They manged to take it down by ambushing it and breaking it with stones and stuff. They killed the pilot too, proving their loyalty as the emperors future finest!
Gotta love those miracles..
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/12/07 00:06:20
I don't think you understand what a miracle is. They don't make sense, THAT IS THE POINT. Constant praying is just like constantly repainting a tank to improve it's armour, it's the underlying belief that counts.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
pm713 wrote: I don't think you understand what a miracle is. They don't make sense, THAT IS THE POINT. Constant praying is just like constantly repainting a tank to improve it's armour, it's the underlying belief that counts.
right if she was constnatly praying and her amulet was glowing it would have been dumber, mircles should, basicly be treated mostly as dumb luck or "the inexplicable happening" it should not be "spells by any other name"
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
pm713 wrote: I don't think you understand what a miracle is. They don't make sense, THAT IS THE POINT. Constant praying is just like constantly repainting a tank to improve it's armour, it's the underlying belief that counts.
I get that. My point is that when a devine miracle happens in the lore, its presented as such. That is not the case here.
right if she was constnatly praying and her amulet was glowing it would have been dumber, mircles should, basicly be treated mostly as dumb luck or "the inexplicable happening" it should not be "spells by any other name"
This is from the limited edition of faith and fury:
Spoiler:
"-The conviction of the Iron Hands and the faith of the Sisters birthed a manifestation of the Emperor. A towering figure with a flaming sword appeared, surrounded by golden eagles. The Emperor Angelic has come!
-The Emperor Angelic swept his sword forward and the eagles came at the daemons burning any they touched with golden fire. The holy energies unleashed haloed the people of the planet turning them into instruments of the Emperor's will. As one the people of the agriworld rose up and walked into the firelines and blades of the daemons. With mere gestures, they sent holy fire and spears of light at the heretics and daemons.
-The Iron Chaplain was speechless at what was happening. This didn't fit any of his logical understanding. Inside his cold soul a long buried emotion sparked and that unnerved him."
BrianDavion wrote: jesus they cut out an entire story arc from the book and locked it behind a 40 dollar "CE only" pay wall? LAAAAAAAAAAAAME.
actually beyond lame, as this was our first look at the actual fething PSYKIC awakening the plot gets it's name from. jesus...
..my point is that the miracle is presented as an actual miracle.
it really can vary, sometimes they're flashy like that, otherwise it's a case of "yeah the battle field got nuked, but sister Carla emerged from the atomic holocaust miraculiously untouched"
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
BrianDavion wrote: jesus they cut out an entire story arc from the book and locked it behind a 40 dollar "CE only" pay wall? LAAAAAAAAAAAAME.
actually beyond lame, as this was our first look at the actual fething PSYKIC awakening the plot gets it's name from. jesus...
..my point is that the miracle is presented as an actual miracle.
it really can vary, sometimes they're flashy like that, otherwise it's a case of "yeah the battle field got nuked, but sister Carla emerged from the atomic holocaust miraculiously untouched"
As long as it is hinted, or pointed out, its fine with me.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Normally, I wouldn't accept "IT'S A MIRACLE" as an explanation for why something happened in a book.
But!
In the case of the Sororitas, it's literally a miracle. In fact, even on the Table Top, they have a mechanic to replicate how often miracles happen for them. In fact, a Canoness on the table top can easily survive a Tachyon Arrow to the chest. Like that's not even really a good move to kill her with - it's a waste of your arrow, is how ineffective it is. So why is it suddenly unimmersive for her to survive ... in the fluff?
Methinks someone doesn't understand how the Sororitas work. They literally work by being so faithful it causes miracles routinely. That's the fluff in the new book, after all.
this has been their modus operandi for like ever. Miracles....do...actually...happen............often......for Sororitas. it's one of the things I really like about them, crazy gak happens cuz BiggiE says so.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: 5. There is no way, NO WAY, a Battle Sister took down a Callidus Assassin. Calling BS. Throwing the flag. Half the distance to the goal, repeat the down.
Assassins have had some very poor showings at times. In one of their more recent outings the tau managed to out-assassin three of the four, including beating a Callidus on pure reactions.
Actually, the assassins were REALLY good there. Only the Callidus had a poor showing, but thats only compared to the others. Shadowsun in her battlesuit was barely fast enough to evade the Callidus, and was even overpowered by her. Only the pathfinder that jumped in the way is what saved Shadowsun.
Spoiler:
The Eversor and Vindicare were freaking amazing. They failed their missions and got killed but the feats they performed honestly left me speechless. Stuff like the vindicare taking out the crew of a Tau vehicle while doing a summersault in midair or taking out a team of pathfinders and battlesuits befote they can even react to him, leaving a trail of dead soldiers, battlesuits and even vehicles like Hammerheads is impressive. Not to mention that the trail of the dead is the only reason Darkstrider (or w.e) knew the "ghost blip" wasnt just some glitch. The fact alone that the Vindicare's stealth tech was able to evade advanced Tau sensors is super impressive. Then theres the Eversor killing crisis suit after crisis suit, leaping from battlesuits, killing them, leaping atop a drone then using it to propell himself towards another suit, killing him, etc. All while hes surrounded and dodging the shots of tens of battlesuits with his unmatched speed. Those are very good showings, and all of their deaths except for the Callidus was believable. The Vindicare got blinded by a tau grenade and still killed Darkstrider's(?) entite team before being taken out himself. He did manage to disable Farsight's shield generator for the remainder of the campaign and would have killed him if he didnt have body guards so close to him to intercept the killing shot. The Eversor hesitated when he didnt kill Oblatai when he should have (The Broadside Suit piloted by an A.I instead of a living pilot, hence why his chemical gauntlet didnt work) and got shot, slowing him down. He still kicked some ass before launching himself at Farsight and getting cut down, which makes sense considering how much larger Farsight's sword is and how much more reach he has.
The Cullexus was also impressive. Hugely contrasting the high speed agility of his fellows with slow and inevitable "creeping death" he presented. Hell, even the Callidus was impressive until the last moment. Impersonating an Ethereal perfectly, down to his movements, speech and "aura" isnt something that should be easy or even just hard for that matter. The thing that gave it away was the smell. Tau have a strong sense of smell and I guess she didnt smell like an Ethereal.
That was my first time reading about assassins in action though so I dont know how they compare to in other stories.
123ply: Dataslate- 4/4/3/3/1/3/1/8/6+
Autopistol, Steel Extendo, Puma Hoodie
USRs: "Preferred Enemy: Xenos"
"Hatred: Xenos"
"Racist and Proud of it" - Gains fleshbane, rending, rage, counter-attack, and X2 strength and toughness when locked in combat with units not in the "Imperium of Man" faction.
BrianDavion wrote: jesus they cut out an entire story arc from the book and locked it behind a 40 dollar "CE only" pay wall? LAAAAAAAAAAAAME.
actually beyond lame, as this was our first look at the actual fething PSYKIC awakening the plot gets it's name from. jesus...
..my point is that the miracle is presented as an actual miracle.
it really can vary, sometimes they're flashy like that, otherwise it's a case of "yeah the battle field got nuked, but sister Carla emerged from the atomic holocaust miraculiously untouched"
As long as it is hinted, or pointed out, its fine with me.
If its supposed to be miraculous, it should feel like a miracle. Something like "He got shot. Its a miracle he survived" without anymore explanation doesnt sound very convincing
123ply: Dataslate- 4/4/3/3/1/3/1/8/6+
Autopistol, Steel Extendo, Puma Hoodie
USRs: "Preferred Enemy: Xenos"
"Hatred: Xenos"
"Racist and Proud of it" - Gains fleshbane, rending, rage, counter-attack, and X2 strength and toughness when locked in combat with units not in the "Imperium of Man" faction.
123ply wrote: If its supposed to be miraculous, it should feel like a miracle. Something like "He got shot. Its a miracle he survived" without anymore explanation doesnt sound very convincing
*random guy gets hit in the chest with an M1A2's 120mm long-rod penetrator and survives*
"IDK if that's a convincing miracle or not..." *thinkyface* "I think we need more explanation."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/18 17:09:21
If either or both the cannoness and the necron lord appeared surprised she survived the tachyon arrow I think that would be enough to note that it was inexplicable in the extreme to have survived it.
“Victory is not an abstract concept, it is the equation that sits at the heart of strategy. Victory is the will to expend lives and munitions in attack, overmatching the defenders’reserves of manpower and ordnance. As long as my Iron Warriors are willing to pay any price in pursuit of victory, we shall never be defeated.” - The Primarch Perturabo, Master of the Iron Warriors
agurus1 wrote: If either or both the cannoness and the necron lord appeared surprised she survived the tachyon arrow I think that would be enough to note that it was inexplicable in the extreme to have survived it.
The Canoness wouldn't be surprised. In fact for her it merely confirms her faith. Her being surprised would be like a scientist being shocked that electricity works.
As for the Necron Lord... sure, maybe he should have been. But in that case it is the Lord, not the Sister, who is badly written.
So, in the book, she doesn't magically faith tank the arrow, it goes right through her and out the back. She's got a giant gaping hole. One basic sister does "tank" one, and it flings her across a room, hits a wall, dies.
I'm not saying a book about miracle sisters with miracle weapons and armor made of miracles doesn't contain miracles. I'm simply pointing out bad writing. I was rather abruptly pulled out of the world here by bad writing. The books start middling (And this is from someone who enjoyed "Baneblade/Shadowsword") and goes south fast.
Usually the quality of the books I've read in the Black Library are good. Not really Hemmingway, but at least not Stephanie Meyer. There is less and less plot, or even semblance of story. It's just Catholic She-hulk going around being angry and shooting everyone.
I feel like "being alive with a giant gaping hole in your chest" is exactly what a miracle is.
Like literally see my example.
I get what happened. It just don't see the problem (aside from terrible writing, but that has nothing to do with the thread topic which is essentially "sisters cannot be as tough as they are portrayed in the books").
AM/IG - 122nd Terrax Guard: 2094/3000pts
Skitarii/Cult Mech: 1380/2000pts
Khorne Daemonkin - Host of the Nervous Knife: 1701/2000pts
Orks - Rampage Axez: 1753/2000pts 