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Everything surrounding the battle of Prospero is clouded in unreliable narrator and lack of clarity.

On a totally unrelated note. Magnus is completely-totally-not helping unlock Prosperity for the imperial guard.

https://regimental-standard.com/2020/01/08/unlock-your-prosperity/

Hey that is the Red Monarch doing that, who is totally not Magnus, really...

 Irbis wrote:

Bran Dawri wrote:
As to the OT, Magnus is definitely the most sympathetic of the fallen primarchs.

That's not how you spell Perturabo. Rest of the chaos manbabies fell because of their own hubris and stupidity, Pert was pushed to fall - by both sides. He can be called tragic. Magnus tho? He was wiseass who always knew best, never listened to advice nor even sought it - had he went to Terra by ship, or hell, even told Ahriman what happened so someone can discuss surrender terms things could be fixed - but no, that dumb baby frakked up everything then decided to have his own world killed out of spite without telling anyone.

Honestly feth Perturabo and his martyr complex and i say this as someone who considers Perturabo my second most favorite Primarch.

He was not pushed nearly as much as claims .

90 % of Perturabos issues stemmed from his martyr complex and his own nature

The core issue is that Emperor used his sons as weapons, tools in achieving his goals. His treatment of his Primarchs often were cold, indifferent and sometimes even brutal. Angron, Mortarion had fallen directly because how Emperor interacted with them. Lorgar had fallen, because Emperor decided to humiliate him on galactic scale. Magnus fall was solely, because Emperor did not bothered to explain or share anything with him. If he would had kept Magnus closer to him, everything would had been prevented. Even throwing a bone at the right time to starved Perturabo would had meant world of a difference to their Primarch and their legion. The issue is that Emperor treated his children as tools which he could use to achieve his goals while not understanding that he made them or Chaos modified them with making them all too human.

And in the end, it was nothing, but divine justice. You do not make deals and then back out from them. Emperor thought to be smarter than Gods and he paid for his arrogance with humanity's future.

Why did Mortarion fall? Of all the traitors he's the one I understand the least. I know the Emperor killed his evil alien overlord/father instead of him because Mortarion couldn't but that's it.

pm713 wrote:
Why did Mortarion fall? Of all the traitors he's the one I understand the least. I know the Emperor killed his evil alien overlord/father instead of him because Mortarion couldn't but that's it.

Old lore was Nurge holds his legion hostage while they are in transit to terra for the siege, in return for joining Nurgle willingly Nurgle stops torturing killing his legion (but also ends up turning them into Plague Marines).

 Ernestas wrote:
The core issue is that Emperor used his sons as weapons, tools in achieving his goals. His treatment of his Primarchs often were cold, indifferent and sometimes even brutal. Angron, Mortarion had fallen directly because how Emperor interacted with them. Lorgar had fallen, because Emperor decided to humiliate him on galactic scale. Magnus fall was solely, because Emperor did not bothered to explain or share anything with him. If he would had kept Magnus closer to him, everything would had been prevented. Even throwing a bone at the right time to starved Perturabo would had meant world of a difference to their Primarch and their legion. The issue is that Emperor treated his children as tools which he could use to achieve his goals while not understanding that he made them or Chaos modified them with making them all too human.

And in the end, it was nothing, but divine justice. You do not make deals and then back out from them. Emperor thought to be smarter than Gods and he paid for his arrogance with humanity's future.

I see the Emperor as falling victim to his own success. After thousands of years of behind the scenes work with seemingly little success, the Emperor reveals himself and seems to accomplish more faster than ever before. Flush with his own success, he fails to notice the potential problems with the Primarchs, or is too over confident, thinking he will have ample time and opportunity to deal with them later. In Guy Haley’s Plague War, Guilliman thinks the Emperor only ever loved his own idea of humanity at the species level, and all other individuals (Primarchs included) were expendable for the sake of that idea.