Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

After reflecting for a bit, I'm kind of down on the prospect of Assault Intercessors. Either:

A) they're filling exactly the same niche as Combat Knife Reivers but worse because they don't have DS, or

B) they'll eventually get Jump Packs and render Rievers completely obsolete*, and having the core box not come with the option that everyone is going to want is dumb.

* Among other things.

Kanluwen wrote:

Codex: Space Marines page 76 wrote:
They go to battle clad in Omnis-pattern armour, which is created by blending elements of the heavier Gravis pattern and the lighter Phobos pattern over the Mk X armour exoskeleton.

If you've seen the kits (which I'm not going to assume you have or haven't), I can say that the Gravis influences are minimal.

I wouldn't expect these to be a dual kit.

Weirder stuff has been doubled up than a kit which requires a Grav-Chute(which is just a backpack topper at best), a variant gun, and different bits bolted onto the lower legs and front torso/wrists.

What would be the same in the kits? The legs are clearly different. The shoulder pads are different sizes. The backpacks are different. One uses flight stands, and the other does not.

You'd have as much luck saying that Assault Terminators and Vanguard Veterans should have the same kit, purely because they both carry melee weaponry?

The Newman wrote:After reflecting for a bit, I'm kind of down on the prospect of Assault Intercessors. Either:

A) they're filling exactly the same niche as Combat Knife Reivers but worse because they don't have DS, or

B) they'll eventually get Jump Packs and render Rievers completely obsolete*, and having the core box not come with the option that everyone is going to want is dumb.

* Among other things.

I see Assault Intercessors having a better sergeant weapon option later down the line, and being cheaper than Reivers (as well as being Troops). I'd love Reivers to get some more stealth based rules and abilities in the future, to make them more like CCW Scouts compared to footslogging Assault Marines.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

The Newman wrote:After reflecting for a bit, I'm kind of down on the prospect of Assault Intercessors. Either:

A) they're filling exactly the same niche as Combat Knife Reivers but worse because they don't have DS, or

B) they'll eventually get Jump Packs and render Rievers completely obsolete*, and having the core box not come with the option that everyone is going to want is dumb.

* Among other things.

I see Assault Intercessors having a better sergeant weapon option later down the line, and being cheaper than Reivers (as well as being Troops). I'd love Reivers to get some more stealth based rules and abilities in the future, to make them more like CCW Scouts compared to footslogging Assault Marines.

Well obviously Assault Intercessors are going to have the better Sgt. options, but without a way to deliver them you're better off with normal Intercessors who are almost as good in melee and have real guns on the way in. Basically we already have a fairly cheap unit that does everything I'd expect Chainsword and Pistol Intercessors to be capable of doing, and nobody likes them.

if we get a new marine codex this edition I hope GW takes a serious second look at Reivers and reworks them a bit to make them more useful of course for all we know GW also tweeked morale rules so suddenly reivers and nightlords are insanely good.

BrianDavion wrote:
if we get a new marine codex this edition I hope GW takes a serious second look at Reivers and reworks them a bit to make them more useful of course for all we know GW also tweeked morale rules so suddenly reivers and nightlords are insanely good.

Good luck with that. As a long time Night Lords player I'm hoping they drop the morale angle and play up their dirty fighter tendencies like in hh.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
if we get a new marine codex this edition I hope GW takes a serious second look at Reivers and reworks them a bit to make them more useful of course for all we know GW also tweeked morale rules so suddenly reivers and nightlords are insanely good.

Good luck with that. As a long time Night Lords player I'm hoping they drop the morale angle and play up their dirty fighter tendencies like in hh.

never said it was likely just who knows.

I think the primaris are meant to look just a little bit more serious than normal space marines.

The Newman wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

The Newman wrote:After reflecting for a bit, I'm kind of down on the prospect of Assault Intercessors. Either:

A) they're filling exactly the same niche as Combat Knife Reivers but worse because they don't have DS, or

B) they'll eventually get Jump Packs and render Rievers completely obsolete*, and having the core box not come with the option that everyone is going to want is dumb.

* Among other things.

I see Assault Intercessors having a better sergeant weapon option later down the line, and being cheaper than Reivers (as well as being Troops). I'd love Reivers to get some more stealth based rules and abilities in the future, to make them more like CCW Scouts compared to footslogging Assault Marines.

Well obviously Assault Intercessors are going to have the better Sgt. options, but without a way to deliver them you're better off with normal Intercessors who are almost as good in melee and have real guns on the way in. Basically we already have a fairly cheap unit that does everything I'd expect Chainsword and Pistol Intercessors to be capable of doing, and nobody likes them.

I’m expecting that the assault Intercessors won’t be a new data sheet but just more weapon options for the existing Intercessors, something like “May replace the bolt rifle with heavy bolt pistol and chainsword” and will probably remain a Troop choice. Mostly because they’re called Assault Intercessors rather something new like Inceptors, Hellblasters, Reivers etc.

I’m really curious where this will leave Reivers though. A unit already struggling to find its place in the list with an almost identical load out.

Now there are !!

So this might be a mini rant buuut:

Bikes and interceptors have a lot of overlap. Bikes generally give a wound and a toughness. So barring movement both are going to have the same statline. I'd also wager that the bolt weapons on the bikes are assault bolters, the same as an inceptor variant. Bikes are gonna have at least 14" move and 6" auto advance, and slightly better melee (maybe. Inceptors have crushing charge), they'd also have arguably more survivability with the "jink" stratagem, inceptors can deep strike to be where they need to but can also be denied. I like the bikes but there's so much overlap it kinda feel like it's boiling down to "do you want your guns on the table turn 1 or 2?"

Assault intercessors. I know I'm not the only person that didn't use reivers before and I figure it's just a load out option and the Sgt will retain his options for thunder hammers and powerfists, so I now have no reason to take reivers imo. There are better options for melee, and grabbing objectives. Reivers need a total rework to be a choice.

Also as a bonus I really don't like how neither infiltrators, or Incursors had an option for shotguns. Would have been cool to see Phobos guys with shotguns! Incursors just rub me wrong in every way. "Close support" but have sensors to ignore modifiers and weak melee rules? I dunno I just think they should have had shotguns and different shells and that's it. But cards on the table I've never used Incursors, mostly because I don't encounter modifiers that much (or have the glue to build any either).

I'm pretty excited about the bikes though, I always liked the concept

I agree that the bikes are going to have some overlap with Inceptors. Some will depend in the rifles mounted on the bikes.

Inceptors have paired assault 3 HB-equivalent guns. So 6 S5 AP-1 D1 shots each at 18"
If bikes have basic bolt rifles, it’s going to be 4 S4 AP-1 D1 shots. Which due to being mounted on a bike is always going to be getting full shots out to 30”. If they do mount the assault varsions, they will be able to put out more shots (without the AP) and pull some advance tricks.

Bikes are going to have a threat radius that covers huge swaths of the table. They can put out the same basic bolt rile firepower as the troops, but be anywhere they need to be to grab objectives, screen things, etc. Inceptors are more local. You drop them where they need to be, and pour fire into it. At a better S then your normal boys. And while they can keep up the fire on the move, due to the range they have a much smaller zone of control.

Speed is probably comparable. Bikes should get the 6” advance, but none of their guns will work, and most marines won’t be able to charge. (barring new stuff) So only really usefull if you need them on the other side of the table to cap an objective.

Defensive stat lines are probably the same.

CC the bikes look to have chainswords and heavy bolt pistols. That will probably bring more to the party then a 1-6 chance of a MW.

Marine FA stuff has always had a lot of overlap. This is nothing new. They will do slightly better in different roles, but be largely interchangeable.

I mean for me it'll be nice to have a FA choice that doesn't use that fething flight stand.

BrianDavion wrote:
I mean for me it'll be nice to have a FA choice that doesn't use that flight stand.

Truth

For me, just plain bikes are not all that and a bag of chips. As an Ultramarine, I can move and fire intercessors while in tac doctrine at full range. If these guys don’t bring specials (which I doubt they will) all the add is mobility. Which isn’t nothing. Primaris for the most part are footslogging or in expensive transports. Other chapters are going to get a lot more milage out of them.

But it’s nice to have FA options in the new line. Looks like I’m working my way up to a primaris battle company, and this box is a chunk of the FA part of that.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just because there hasn’t been a close up pic of him in this thread, and he is pretty much the poster boy answering the call of the thread title:

GW wrote:
He’s a Judicar – he’s an entirely new kind of Space Marine, he’s got an executioner blade**** specially designed for lopping off heads – and there’s a lot of ‘judicating’ to be done.

From:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/24/warhammer-40000-more-models-revealedgw-homepage-post-3/

These new releases have reaffirmed my faith in the God Emperor of Mankind.