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Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






 DalekCheese wrote:
 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I only need the bikes and chainsword dudes, and I kinda like the new Chaplain way better than the trenchcoat pimp cane guy.... so I'll be at the mercy of ebay...


They’re not going to have developed assault marines and bikers and then not sell them separately.


I dunno, still no suppressors, gravis captains, ancients, or obliterators in single kits. No hint that any of these are even coming.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Castozor wrote:
 DalekCheese wrote:
 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I only need the bikes and chainsword dudes, and I kinda like the new Chaplain way better than the trenchcoat pimp cane guy.... so I'll be at the mercy of ebay...


They’re not going to have developed assault marines and bikers and then not sell them separately.

Let's hope so, but the question is how long is this going to take? I personally did not pick up the 8th Starter set before it rotated out so how long do I have to wait now before I can get a malignant plaguecaster for my DG? If it is going to take them too long I assume people like me will have kitbashed their own at some point before it releases, and then who wants to pick it up then?


Can I add? Also, since we know that Indomitus isn't a starter set, what will be the starter for 9th?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tycho wrote:
I..I didn't say that this was FOMO. I said this was an issue that I had with GW and it's system for designing units.



You quite literally did though:

To reiterate. I cannot buy JUST ONE of these models in its own box. So far, nothing has shown this to be something that will change. As it stands they are only available in SC boxes (as some of you mentioned) or in their original packaging bundled with a ton of other miniatures I might not want.

In the EG (Electronic Gaming) world, FOMO has been used to drive sales and force players into buying expensive "starter sets" or "Limited Edition" box kits that sell for far more than just getting the basic game. It does appear, that GW has been doing this with their recent release.


And you seem to be stuck on the concept that this is some kind of new phenomenon. Maybe you're new to the GW side of the hobby? It's always been this way. At times it probably was a marketing tactic (some Eldar boxes in particular have been eyebrow raising), at other times it was technical limitations, and at still others it was, more than likely just somewhat poor planning, and/or not realizing that what GW thought we wanted, and what we actually wanted were different. The examples you're using aren't really deliberately anti-consumer in the same way a lot of say, EA's anti-consumer policies are. There's a vast gulf between some simple mistakes and technical problems, and deliberately structuring something to take advantage of the consumer in a very underhanded way.

You actually CAN pick a few things that are truly anti-consumer from GW, but so far I haven't seen you use those examples and, honestly, even those are more likely due to reasons other than under-handed policies on GW's part.


Would you be referring to the fact that Chain Axe/Combi-Bolter is the default loadout for Chaos Terminators, yet the box only comes with one Chain Axe? Havoks only get 1 Chaincannon, etc?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/23 08:45:15


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Tycho wrote:
Honestly, this is nothing new for GW. It's always been this way. A few minis that, inexplicably are available only in a certain box, that never quite get around to receiving their own separate release. It's been this way, pretty much always with the minis, and I don't think it has nearly so much to do with fomo as it does with production planning, road maps, and the fact that they can't quite seem to get on the same page with the community.

Where I think FOMO deliberately comes into play is with things like "collectors editions codexes" etc. Where they very clearly use the concept to move the merch.

I guess my question would be, why do we care? There's been a few threads like this lately where someone points out a case of GW using standard marketing practices that are used the world over in every industry. You wouldn't bat an eye if another company were doing it, but GW suddenly engages in actual concerted (and fairly textbook) marketing efforts and everyone gets in a tizzy.

I don't get it. lol

EDIT:

Not that I thought the OP's original question was necessarily over the top or agitated in any way. I just don't get why it suddenly matters so much.


Because standard marketing tactics are often all sorts of unethical. When companies are hiring psychologists to tell them how best to manipulate consumers into making more purchases you have to wonder where exactly we're sitting on the whole ideal balance between consumer verse business.
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Philadelphia

stratigo wrote:
Tycho wrote:
Honestly, this is nothing new for GW. It's always been this way. A few minis that, inexplicably are available only in a certain box, that never quite get around to receiving their own separate release. It's been this way, pretty much always with the minis, and I don't think it has nearly so much to do with fomo as it does with production planning, road maps, and the fact that they can't quite seem to get on the same page with the community.

Where I think FOMO deliberately comes into play is with things like "collectors editions codexes" etc. Where they very clearly use the concept to move the merch.

I guess my question would be, why do we care? There's been a few threads like this lately where someone points out a case of GW using standard marketing practices that are used the world over in every industry. You wouldn't bat an eye if another company were doing it, but GW suddenly engages in actual concerted (and fairly textbook) marketing efforts and everyone gets in a tizzy.

I don't get it. lol

EDIT:

Not that I thought the OP's original question was necessarily over the top or agitated in any way. I just don't get why it suddenly matters so much.


Because standard marketing tactics are often all sorts of unethical. When companies are hiring psychologists to tell them how best to manipulate consumers into making more purchases you have to wonder where exactly we're sitting on the whole ideal balance between consumer verse business.


Citation needed of GW hiring psychologists to tell them how to manipulate people into buying plastic toy soldiers.

Good to know GWs selling practices are the great ethical and moral quandry of our time.

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"There is rational thought here. It's just swimming through a sea of stupid and is often concealed from view by the waves of irrational conclusions." - Railguns 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I don't get where the OP is getting such noise from. I'm not a fan of theirs but they asked a simple question and yes GW tries to push FOMO to move boxes. Is that fear legitimate ? Not always no but it can take awhile before they release the models seperate and sometimes they don't sell them at all outside that one box.

Trick is, don't buy into it, it's just silly. Nothing in this game can you not live without and anything worth getting you can wait for. Just resist the urge to FOMO and eventually it fades away. I haven't fomoed in quite awhile and feel better served to avoid it. Let others fight over the limited editions if they want.

I mean if it works for them though that would explain why they keep going to it.
   
Made in ie
Furious Raptor




Ireland

If you leave items in your cart on Forgeworlds website while logged in and toddle off for a few hours, you get an email titled "Still deciding? Time is running out..."

I imagine they're aware of their reputation for stealth-discontinuing products (They just killed off most of the regular Rhino/Land Raider accessories and have almost whittled down each HH legions shoulder pads to just one offering), so they definitely know what they're doing.

I myself have spent a bunch on Forgeworld over the past few years, and while FOMO is effective in it's own way, it also makes the customer more bitter about it the more they're aware of it. It's also made me absolutely reluctant to pick up a different faction or any of the new plastics for my faction because I absolutely do not want to feel the need to complete another collection and know that the new plastics will be around for donkeys years.

Also what's up with the lack of reading comprehension in this topic?

   
Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos






AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't get where the OP is getting such noise from.


Most of the "noise" was because of OP's attitude in their responses.

2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 EnTyme wrote:
AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't get where the OP is getting such noise from.


Most of the "noise" was because of OP's attitude in their responses.


Which were in response to people deliberately misunderstanding the question and personally attacking the OP.
   
Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos






You are aware that people are capable of going back two pages and seeing how OP came in hot when someone tried to suggest another way of buying the models, right? Whether that was OP's point or not, they most certainly were not responding to a personal attack. They through a tantrum when someone pointed out the models weren't completely unavailable when the original bundles stopped being sold.

2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
 
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




England

 Togusa wrote:
 DalekCheese wrote:
 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I only need the bikes and chainsword dudes, and I kinda like the new Chaplain way better than the trenchcoat pimp cane guy.... so I'll be at the mercy of ebay...


They’re not going to have developed assault marines and bikers and then not sell them separately.


I dunno, still no suppressors, gravis captains, ancients, or obliterators in single kits. No hint that any of these are even coming.


No, but those are individual models/small squads. They’re not something people have been crying out for almost since the introduction of Primaris.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Castozor wrote:
 DalekCheese wrote:
 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I only need the bikes and chainsword dudes, and I kinda like the new Chaplain way better than the trenchcoat pimp cane guy.... so I'll be at the mercy of ebay...


They’re not going to have developed assault marines and bikers and then not sell them separately.

Let's hope so, but the question is how long is this going to take? I personally did not pick up the 8th Starter set before it rotated out so how long do I have to wait now before I can get a malignant plaguecaster for my DG? If it is going to take them too long I assume people like me will have kitbashed their own at some point before it releases, and then who wants to pick it up then?


Can I add? Also, since we know that Indomitus isn't a starter set, what will be the starter for 9th?


Source on that?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tycho wrote:
I..I didn't say that this was FOMO. I said this was an issue that I had with GW and it's system for designing units.



You quite literally did though:

To reiterate. I cannot buy JUST ONE of these models in its own box. So far, nothing has shown this to be something that will change. As it stands they are only available in SC boxes (as some of you mentioned) or in their original packaging bundled with a ton of other miniatures I might not want.

In the EG (Electronic Gaming) world, FOMO has been used to drive sales and force players into buying expensive "starter sets" or "Limited Edition" box kits that sell for far more than just getting the basic game. It does appear, that GW has been doing this with their recent release.


And you seem to be stuck on the concept that this is some kind of new phenomenon. Maybe you're new to the GW side of the hobby? It's always been this way. At times it probably was a marketing tactic (some Eldar boxes in particular have been eyebrow raising), at other times it was technical limitations, and at still others it was, more than likely just somewhat poor planning, and/or not realizing that what GW thought we wanted, and what we actually wanted were different. The examples you're using aren't really deliberately anti-consumer in the same way a lot of say, EA's anti-consumer policies are. There's a vast gulf between some simple mistakes and technical problems, and deliberately structuring something to take advantage of the consumer in a very underhanded way.

You actually CAN pick a few things that are truly anti-consumer from GW, but so far I haven't seen you use those examples and, honestly, even those are more likely due to reasons other than under-handed policies on GW's part.


Would you be referring to the fact that Chain Axe/Combi-Bolter is the default loadout for Chaos Terminators, yet the box only comes with one Chain Axe? Havoks only get 1 Chaincannon, etc?


See that stuff above? Completely true. All of it, every single word. Stands to reason. 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos






GW has repeatedly described Indomitus as a "launch set" rather than a "starter set". A lot of people have interpreted that to mean that we'll eventually get a different box set with a different version of the core rulebook, dice, rulers, etc. That's honestly just speculation at this point. GW may or may not intend to release a different "starter box" for this edition (I'm assuming we will). It could just be that they're calling Indomitus a launch set so that people know it doesn't have the same content as the starter sets of previous editions. We'll just have to wait and see.

2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

GW has been very clear that Indomitus is a launch set aimed at current customers and lacks the dice/rulers/quickstart guides that are typical of their Starter-Sets. It might also mean that the price is higher than a typical starter as well.
Another aspect that GW has been clear on is that there is one print run of Indomitus. Once it goes out of stock that's it - its gone.


Starter sets are printed through the life of the edition as needed and are not one-release affairs. So they can go out of stock for a time, but GW will print new ones.



My opinion is that either;
1) GW will make a new starter set after.

2) GW might be moving away from single starter sets. There are a few issues with starter sets:

a) They only have two armies in them. This means if you don't like either army then the starter set isn't really all that interesting to you.

b) They have two different armies in them. This means either you have to like both, or you have to trade away/sell/find someone to buy with you. This can sometimes be more tricky than its worth in some areas and clubs.

c) Because it has two forces in it the price is higher.


I can see GW perhaps approaching the idea of instead pushing their "Getting Started" sets for each army onto new customers. Perhaps with free app based editions of the rules (most people have phones/computers) or pressing rulebooks/codex dice etc... as additional sales. Lets face it if you're getting into wargaming then accessories are a must - you need clippers and glue. It's not a huge ask to add a book or two, dice and ruler ontop. They might even print free "quickstart" generic guides for distribution from the store.

The benefit of that approach is that you can "get started" With any army in the game. This might have a knock on effect of spreading out the starting force since one reason Marines are so popular is because they are almost always in the starter set. So they are very often one of the first armies most will encounter as a model. Going for the getting started sets instead might well help promote other armies and other approaches into the game. Even if you're after Marines it might mean you go for a chapter other than the box favourite "Ultramarines"

   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






 EnTyme wrote:
You are aware that people are capable of going back two pages and seeing how OP came in hot when someone tried to suggest another way of buying the models, right? Whether that was OP's point or not, they most certainly were not responding to a personal attack. They through a tantrum when someone pointed out the models weren't completely unavailable when the original bundles stopped being sold.


I tend to get annoyed when I'm arguing a point, and multiple people come back with "you can just do X" as if my original point wasn't the topic. After 15 replies all saying "Hey, you can just go here to buy it" and me having already said multiple times, "I know, I'm not talking about that." I let the handle fly, yes, I overreacted, but can you blame me?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/29 05:27:35


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Fargo, ND USA

 Togusa wrote:
 EnTyme wrote:
You are aware that people are capable of going back two pages and seeing how OP came in hot when someone tried to suggest another way of buying the models, right? Whether that was OP's point or not, they most certainly were not responding to a personal attack. They through a tantrum when someone pointed out the models weren't completely unavailable when the original bundles stopped being sold.


I tend to get annoyed when I'm arguing a point, and multiple people come back with "you can just do X" as if my original point wasn't the topic. After 15 replies all saying "Hey, you can just go here to buy it" and me having already said multiple times, "I know, I'm not talking about that." I let the handle fly, yes, I overreacted, but can you blame me?


Yes. Yes, we can, because conversations evolve and in a public forum you don't get to dictate how that happens regardless of whether you started the discussion or not. Especially since multiple responses saying the same thing tend to be people hitting reply before reading through the thread in its entirety because they have a response to a specific statement and most likely don't want to lose their train of thought by reading further.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/29 06:31:37


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Made in ie
Furious Raptor




Ireland

 Togusa wrote:
 EnTyme wrote:
You are aware that people are capable of going back two pages and seeing how OP came in hot when someone tried to suggest another way of buying the models, right? Whether that was OP's point or not, they most certainly were not responding to a personal attack. They through a tantrum when someone pointed out the models weren't completely unavailable when the original bundles stopped being sold.


I tend to get annoyed when I'm arguing a point, and multiple people come back with "you can just do X" as if my original point wasn't the topic. After 15 replies all saying "Hey, you can just go here to buy it" and me having already said multiple times, "I know, I'm not talking about that." I let the handle fly, yes, I overreacted, but can you blame me?


No you can't be blamed for getting frustrated with peoples lack of reading comprehension. The fact that your response is the focus of this misunderstanding is absolutely flabbergasting and I'd wager that you're being trolled at this point.

Great, look at how off-topic things have become... I think we can put it to bed that GW is using FOMO to push sales and conclude that this in itself is an immoral tactic. Regardless of how much you like the company, it's still a company and will do whatever it can within it's own reasoning to get more sales. FOMO is something they've considered reasonable to use on/against their customers.

Can we close this thread now or at least remove the off topic posts?

   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





come to think off it, i feel like GW did attempt to FOMO earlier alot more then nowadays beyond special figures.
Black reach koptas and cultists aswell as chosen come to mind.
Especially agrivaiting is the case of cultists which are a supposed troop unit.


But yea recently they seemingly did restart that habit a bit with the oblits and venomcrawler aswell as some of the primaris counterparts to my knowledge.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/29 08:47:36


   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 EnTyme wrote:
GW has repeatedly described Indomitus as a "launch set" rather than a "starter set". A lot of people have interpreted that to mean that we'll eventually get a different box set with a different version of the core rulebook, dice, rulers, etc. That's honestly just speculation at this point. GW may or may not intend to release a different "starter box" for this edition (I'm assuming we will). It could just be that they're calling Indomitus a launch set so that people know it doesn't have the same content as the starter sets of previous editions. We'll just have to wait and see.


I agree and also strongly suspect calling the Indomitus box a "Launch Set" is purely so they can sell it for more and have a reason for not including all those little extras like measuring sticks and dice. I wouldn't be surprised if the Indomitus box is the de facto start set, regardless of how GW chooses to refer to it.

As for the OP, I don't think the way GW makes its models available is FOMO at all. In order for that to be the case they'd need to be available for a much shorter length of time than they are. FOMO really only applies to genuinely limited runs of things like a Collector's Edition Codex or similar. What we're seeing here is a combination of GW wanting to push people to spend more money on their boxes and not having the manufacturing or warehouse capacity to individually produce every single type of model they could possibly need. I suspect there are plans to release Oblits separately at some point, maybe as a dual kit, and the same likely goes for Suppressors and most of the models from the Indomitus box. SO while it is obviously a marketing strategy it's not really correct to characterise it as FOMO.
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






a fat guy wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
 EnTyme wrote:
You are aware that people are capable of going back two pages and seeing how OP came in hot when someone tried to suggest another way of buying the models, right? Whether that was OP's point or not, they most certainly were not responding to a personal attack. They through a tantrum when someone pointed out the models weren't completely unavailable when the original bundles stopped being sold.


I tend to get annoyed when I'm arguing a point, and multiple people come back with "you can just do X" as if my original point wasn't the topic. After 15 replies all saying "Hey, you can just go here to buy it" and me having already said multiple times, "I know, I'm not talking about that." I let the handle fly, yes, I overreacted, but can you blame me?


No you can't be blamed for getting frustrated with peoples lack of reading comprehension. The fact that your response is the focus of this misunderstanding is absolutely flabbergasting and I'd wager that you're being trolled at this point.

Great, look at how off-topic things have become... I think we can put it to bed that GW is using FOMO to push sales and conclude that this in itself is an immoral tactic. Regardless of how much you like the company, it's still a company and will do whatever it can within it's own reasoning to get more sales. FOMO is something they've considered reasonable to use on/against their customers.

Can we close this thread now or at least remove the off topic posts?


So I would ask as OP that you not censor people just because you don't like what they've said. The thread is fine to stay, please do not try to get my topic closed.
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




England

 Togusa wrote:
 EnTyme wrote:
You are aware that people are capable of going back two pages and seeing how OP came in hot when someone tried to suggest another way of buying the models, right? Whether that was OP's point or not, they most certainly were not responding to a personal attack. They through a tantrum when someone pointed out the models weren't completely unavailable when the original bundles stopped being sold.


I tend to get annoyed when I'm arguing a point, and multiple people come back with "you can just do X" as if my original point wasn't the topic. After 15 replies all saying "Hey, you can just go here to buy it" and me having already said multiple times, "I know, I'm not talking about that." I let the handle fly, yes, I overreacted, but can you blame me?


I’d say so, yeah.

See that stuff above? Completely true. All of it, every single word. Stands to reason. 
   
Made in us
VF-1S Valkyrie Squadron Commander





Mississippi

Not Online!!! wrote:
come to think off it, i feel like GW did attempt to FOMO earlier alot more then nowadays beyond special figures.
Black reach koptas and cultists aswell as chosen come to mind.
Especially agrivaiting is the case of cultists which are a supposed troop unit.


But yea recently they seemingly did restart that habit a bit with the oblits and venomcrawler aswell as some of the primaris counterparts to my knowledge.


Would Koptas and Cultists really be FOMO though? While annoying that they were available officially one way (you had to buy a lot of junk you might not want with it), it wasn't a case of "here today, gone tomorrow". I'd more consider their "limited" runs to feed on FOMO - stuff like Forgebane, Shadow Wars: Armageddon and the other sets or exclusive models (such as the opening day figures) that had a habit of being sold out within minutes of being available to be better examples of FOMO than "available, but in this inconvenient packaging".

It never ends well 
   
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 Togusa wrote:
Would you be referring to the fact that Chain Axe/Combi-Bolter is the default loadout for Chaos Terminators, yet the box only comes with one Chain Axe? Havoks only get 1 Chaincannon, etc?

Except you can buy a pack of FW chainaxes for less per bit than even recasters/bit sellers charge, if you don't care about making more with blue stuff. And chain cannon is trivial to convert from CSM heavy bolter, which you have an abundance of in the boxes. Or just grab SM assault cannons from bit shop, they are cheap because no one buys them. Is converting that lost art these days?

 Castozor wrote:
Let's hope so, but the question is how long is this going to take? I personally did not pick up the 8th Starter set before it rotated out so how long do I have to wait now before I can get a malignant plaguecaster for my DG?

Um, malignant plaguecaster is available year round from that DG japanese mini set if you really want it that much. Or, you know, grab CSM sorcerer and make it into one with your spare DG bits, because they pretty much are CSM sorcerers, just of Nurgle flavor. Why you insist on having exact same mini instead of making your own guy with nearly 1:1 equivalent? Will someone ban you from store if you don't?

There are genuine issues with GW and FOMO. Not being able to grab one particular bit/mini when there are multiple very close equivalents is not one of them.
   
 
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