Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

About 1/2 as I consider my pile/mountain of shame as armies yet to be mustered.

I could assemble the boxed models in negligible time and play with them so I think I should count them in as the grey horde.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
All of it. If it's not painted, it's not in my army.

Yes, this. I have plenty of unpainted and unassembled models, but they're on the workbench, not in the army.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I'm a slow painter, so by the time I finish painting anything GW has normally deleted the rules for it or nerfed it into unplayability.

Haha!, So true! No meta chasing for us slow painters!

 auticus wrote:
I have never fielded an unpainted model in 30 years.

Here here!
Likewise.
Well, so far as memory serves... though alcohol may have another opinion, it is certainly not something that I would do as it runs contrary to why I enjoy this hobby.
It is a chess playing rpg equivalent on a train set built onto a beautifully crafted scenic table.
It is not a card game practiced with dummy tokens to break rules.

I’m thinking about 20 to 30 percent unpainted.

I don’t enjoy painting vehicles that aren’t humanoid... I’ll plug away at a Dreadnought, and have a couple flyers and 1/2 Russ tanks painted... the second is a loooooong term work in progress. Plus, with Guard, you always need more bodies, so it seems to never be finished.

I voted in the spirit of the poll, but there is a good point to be had in “battle ready” requiring some kind of definition. The poll creator established their own, entirely arbitrary, definition that does not match GW’s loosely described standard.

I expect that at some point, an errata saying, “Battle Ready or better” will come out, without providing a description of battle ready, nor a definition of what “better” would be. Kind of the crux of awarding points to a game, based on a completely subjective and individuality arbitrary assessment of one’s own models and one’s opponents models.

With no disrespect to anyone, I personally don’t like black bases, nor do I like clear bases. To me, the model looks unfinished, regardless of the rest of the model being complete. I *subjectively and arbitrarily* think a base should be painted to represent an imaginary surface upon which the model is standing. Some kind of texturing and shading.

I am obviously not the target audience for this rule. I would doubt my ability to play a 1500 point game of fully painted models. Close, but not quite. At least, not an army I’d want to play. I don’t play in tournaments (usually). I wouldn’t consider a game “lost” due to paint score to actually be a loss. My opponent is welcome to give themselves as many points as their heart desires at any time and declare themselves the victor. I only care about the points earned in the game.

@ greatbigtree: of course my definition was kind of arbitrary. Nontheless thanks that you voted in the general spirit of the question.
And I want to second that when they now introduced a rule that gives such a flat 10 VP bonus for a full "battleready" army they should give a better definition of what that really means

@ Pyro:

No slight intended by describing the definition as arbitrary. When it comes to appreciation of art, all definitions of quality and worth are arbitrary and subjective. Mine, yours, and everyone’s.

That’s why I think it’s foolish to attempt to produce a game “objective” that is measured subjectively.

To control an objective in the game, I don’t need to negotiate with my opponent to determine if I control an objective. I need to objectively be within a certain distance. We can measure, with a ruler.

Paint “quality” is subjective. For example, I would not consider a flat coat of paint on a base, or a clear base, to be “battle ready” (or what I’d call tabletop standard). My opponent might disagree. At which point we’d be negotiating our subjective standards without a defined measurement to determine who is correct. Effectively, we’d be arguing “emotional weight” against each other. I believe this 100 emotional units, so I’m right. I believe this 103 emotional units, so I’m right. Well, now I’m getting more emotionally invested, 105 emotional units, so I’m right... and so on. Not what the poll is about... I digress... but without a clearly defined “Battle Ready” standard there is no objective measure to the rule, so it has no objective repercussions to the game... in my arbitrary and subjective opinion.

ZERO

I mean seriously we just went through a covid lockdown. many of us have been working less or not at all as well as no gaming going on. so anybody who had unpainted minis should have had enough time to catch up on painting unless they have been buying loads of new minis.

I have had my DIY space marine chapter pretty much done since 5th ed. so i finally got around to painting all my DUST miniatures as well as even retouching some damaged battletech miniatures

In all fairness: I also do have a load of unbuild and unpainted minis judging me from my vitrine right now. It's just that I personally prefer to not call them as in my army until they are painted. I had quite some time during lockdown, but it was still not enough to finish everything and that is likely true for a lot of people.

@ greatbigtree: good point. I have to say I'm still a bit on the fence regarding this rule. While I do understand the intention of rewarding players for painting their models, giving such a flat, binary VP bonus seems very... problematic. Especially as I'm pretty sure one could argue for hours what is battle ready and what is not.

Nontheless it is interesting that judging from the votes the whole spectrum seems to be present on Dakkadakka.

 aphyon wrote:
ZERO

I mean seriously we just went through a covid lockdown. many of us have been working less or not at all as well as no gaming going on. so anybody who had unpainted minis should have had enough time to catch up on painting unless they have been buying loads of new minis.

I have had my DIY space marine chapter pretty much done since 5th ed. so i finally got around to painting all my DUST miniatures as well as even retouching some damaged battletech miniatures

Congrats, some people don’t like painting or still had to work so they didn’t have enough time

interesting point on bases

my 40K Death Guard and marines have bases painted a flat dark grey, with a black rim which the rim is then glossed (after unit markings). my CSM are a mix of exactly the same and some with astrogranite applied, washed and drybrushed.

the DG & Marines have no texture because to be honest I'm not sure what I want with them.

Orks have a desert sand finish (filler, painted, drybrushed, the odd stone etc on larger bases)

most of the historical stuff has either filler to cover the moulded base painted brown, or a texture paint used the same way, some armies have grass added, some don't - I do the bases in batches so tends to come down to if I feel like it - for an event I'd base them up

15mm stuff tends to have the base 'finished', because they look horrible without, ditto my one 6mm army, otherwise they are all standing on (large) boxes.

guess I'm just not very good at bases, they do get at least a coat of paint and the edge painted though, simply to tidy them up after the model is painted

 aphyon wrote:
ZERO

I mean seriously we just went through a covid lockdown. many of us have been working less or not at all as well as no gaming going on. so anybody who had unpainted minis should have had enough time to catch up on painting unless they have been buying loads of new minis.

Or, you know, working. Or doing things on the HoneyDo list or homeschooling their kids or being essential staff and still going to work.

I've done a heck of a lot more painting since lockdown started but I've still got all those other things to do, as do many others.

This is one reason why the rule is a bad one. It will make people say "why are you here playing and not painting?"

I have a couple thousand points painted. I field 1900 points painted but one random unit isn't and now I'm somehow not entering into the spirit of the game?

Even this topic has shown differences of opinion some like black or flying bases, some demand full textured and sculpted bases, others are ok with a layer of paint.

I've got some of all. My older stuff is Goblin Green, without even flocking and in our 1750pts game and someone can claim +10VP because my bases don't meet an arbitrary standard?

If the new rulebook doesn't have a 100% watertight worded rule on what's considered "Battle Ready" it won't be a good rule.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
@ greatbigtree: of course my definition was kind of arbitrary. Nontheless thanks that you voted in the general spirit of the question.
And I want to second that when they now introduced a rule that gives such a flat 10 VP bonus for a full "battleready" army they should give a better definition of what that really means

They give a pretty good definition of "what that really means". It's also worth noting that your whole argument is in bad faith to begin with, since the "flat 10 VP bonus for a full "battleready" army" is at minimum.

Anyone arguing that going beyond "Battle Ready" makes you no longer meet that criteria is an argumentative twit.

I did not intended to make an argument in "bad faith" and have the same understanding that it means "this or more". Did I give the Impression that I didn't?

Regarding the definition of battleready: I might have worded badly. It would be more correct to say I would prefer if they put down a well thought through definition that takes into account things like transparent bases, unicolored bases, and other cases where it comes down to different tastes and not effort put in the model.

Simply having a transparent base that isn't slathered in paint would make it clear that effort would have been made, so they don't really need to define that.
The same can be said of a unicolor base.

Common. Frigging. Sense.

I'm with Pyroalchi here - if you're going to use a term for something, like Battle Ready Standard, within your rulebook, you really need to provide a clear definition for such a term within the same book.

Normally I would have fully painted army but given that I haven't played 40k since 4th edition I might test the new edition with unpainted army to see if it's worth playing and painting a new army for.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Simply having a transparent base that isn't slathered in paint would make it clear that effort would have been made, so they don't really need to define that.
The same can be said of a unicolor base.

Common. Frigging. Sense.

Common friggen sense has no place in RAW. If RAW don't reflect RAI then make better RAW.

Your interpretation of RAI will be different from others which is why rules open to interpretation are bad. The WAAC guys will legitimately be able to pull this rule on anything not hitting the standards we've for got. And if you don't let them you'll literally be cheating. It isn't ok to write it off as a "moral victory".


My common friggen sense says not to encourage minimum effort painting. I'd prefer to play against a well but only partially painted army than a "not grey" horde.

Looking at my own stuff I realized that I have some minis whose base while having painted rims have only natural sand glued on top. While it looks nice, a pedantic person could rightfully claim that those bases are not completely painted.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Looking at my own stuff I realized that I have some minis whose base while having painted rims have only natural sand glued on top. While it looks nice, a pedantic person could rightfully claim that those bases are not completely painted.

A simple finnish is enough according to the old whc article.
I suspect that "battle ready" will be better defined soon. I am a but worried that correct base size will be set to be counted as battle ready.

 aphyon wrote:
ZERO

I mean seriously we just went through a covid lockdown. many of us have been working less or not at all as well as no gaming going on. so anybody who had unpainted minis should have had enough time to catch up on painting unless they have been buying loads of new minis.

Sure, because there couldn't have been anything else to be doing that wouldn't have benefited from/used up a lot of free time.
Take a friend of mine for example; He just started a Beastman army for AoS back in Jan. He got it about 1/2 painted & then everything came to a screeching stop. He was like "GREAT! I'll see you all later, I'm going fishing." (he loves to fish) The man spent most of 3 months sitting alone by a lake or in a boat, dawn - dusk, driving the local fish populations to extinction. (seriously, the freezer in his basement is full!)
You know how many models he got painted in those 3 months? He finished his Herdstone & painted 1 Ungor.

Assuming black bases count as battle ready, less than 25% usually, though sometimes it goes below 10% depending on what I field.
Percentage can be odd depending on how you calculate it - all the vehicles in my buggy army are full painted, but my gretchin tend to be primed+skin+color to differentiated squads, so not battle ready. If you go by units, points or amout of surface painted, the army is mostly battle ready, if you go by model count, you have 60 "unpainted" gretchin outnumbering roughly 20 speed freaks models
Similar problem for death guard, where my 3-color poxwalkers tend to be not battle ready. Painting cool models simply is more fun than painting chaff.

In general, these days I try to paint everything I buy before fielding it, since painting tends to be easier when models aren't fully assembled yet - easier means it's less of a chore to get models to look the way I want. I still have grey models dating back to 5th edition, and getting that pile painted is slowly progressing, especially if there are models in the queue that I need to paint to play them

As for the "Battle Ready rules" discussion: The contents page of the new CA shows it has a definition of battle ready inside. Anyone not adhering to the rules on those pages by the letter will be losing the 10 VP.

I don't play unpainted stuff for the most part. There are very, VERY few times I do, but normally with permission from my opponent.

In terms of finishing painting, I work at it. It's a hobby, so painting my stuff is part of the fun for me. I enjoy having fully painted armies, despite my poor painting skills.

I will also add that if people don't want to paint, they won't. There are a lot of posts here talking about motivation to paint and such, and the reality is that some people just won't do it. If paint is important to playing the game to you, just don't play them. No amount of points or benefit for it is going to change their mind.

I mean... after lockdown for three months?

XD Depends. Armies that I'm actually playing are custodes and lord of the rings stuff. I also have a mostly fully painted AoS army that I've shelved. For my custodes, I can easily field a fully painted army, but I have a could of units in my collection not painted. I have two seperate almost fully painted elven armies with the not painted models ones I don't field often or at all. For my umbar, it's mostly not painted because it takes me the longest to paint individually (Except for the purgatory that is painting 21 custodes jetbikes over 2 years now)

But after divesting myself largely of old grossly painted space marines, I'd have a very scantly painted ultramarine force.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Aelyn wrote:

Then why did you start off by saying what Battle Ready meant and linking to a WC article?

You were the one to bring up Battle Ready in the context of the WC article, so for you to now tell me that the WC article doesn't count is pure intellectual dishonesty. I was simply pointing out that the article you linked to didn't say what you claimed it said.

There are TFGs who would enforce this rule pedantically - not because they think it's right, but because they revel in being an donkey-cave. It's just someone you wouldn't play - with or without this rule.

I guarantee you will run into this guy at a tournament if you go with any regularity.

My DA are finally almost fully painted (I still have more minis to paint, mainly inceptors because GW made a mistake and sent me 9 instead of 3 last year). I will add a few units but I can play with a fully painted army already.

On the other side I have accumulated a massive chaos army over the years since the fifth ed. and it's still mostly plastic grey. I am eager to paint them (Abaddon is up there on my to do list) but I feel like I need more resolve to actually start and I fear a little messing up.

0%
I don't get to play more than 10 games in a year anymore most years. I prefer showing up with fully painted armies. If it's not done it's not in the army list.
When I started playing 40K in 96 my friends who got me in were both very good painters at the time and painting models was part of the game we were playing. I had the usual poorly to unpainted models at the time but seeing what they were doing and the models they had on the table made me want to learn to paint.
Painting and painted models were in all the books and articles I can recall reading.

It's taken me years and years to get my own armies fully painted and to decide to only play with painted models. Rome wasn't built in a day?

I put 10% because I am constantly adding to my armies and changing my lists. So I do generally have 1 or 2 units in progress when I play on my tables with my friends. When going to an "away" game I always take a fully painted army because I enjoy that side of the hobby.

Given some of the purposefully argumentative responses to a simple question, I hope GW never decides to put out the "you may only wipe three times using exactly 4 two-ply sheets each wipe if you must take a potty break. If you wipe four times, you have violated the rules..." rule?
Sarcasm intended, and rhetorical of course.

I have had it on principle since starting this hobby in 1998 that I do not play with unpainted models.
I do not have a problem with my opponent playing with a mob of gray plastic, but my models are painted. Unpainted models are not finished, and thus must accept that the only way they see the tabletop is from far away.