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2020/10/21 10:45:59
Subject: Re:Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
Once that problem gets solved, I think the miniature hobbies will take a big leap forward
Good luck with that. The music, game, and film industry never figured it out.
The usual step is to make it juuuust difficult enough and the prices low enough that people can't be arsed to try and get round them. You're always going to have people doing the equivalent of burning a mate's CD, watching a film at their auntie's house, or borrowing a game cartridge from another kid at school. When dealing in anything that can be put in digital format, those things are inevitable without DRM so invasive that it's far more harmful than what it's trying to prevent. And frankly, I personally think that those sorts of cases aren't really an issue, morally or otherwise. IP laws in their strictest sense are daft (technically most libraries are infringing just by existing).
When it becomes a problem is when anyone can go to google, hammer in your product name, and get a free download next to your shop as a search result. That's when it's an issue, that's when it impacts on sales substantially, and that's when nobody buys your product. So you want to drive it just far underground enough to make it fecking awkward and non-obvious for 95% of the public, and leave the bit torrenters/dark web/sharepoint lot to sort themselves out. And by keeping prices reasonable, you disincentivise the public from looking beyond the licensed sources.
That's a reason things like Spotify and Netflix took off whilst piracy has gone through the floor respectively.
2020/10/21 11:44:26
Subject: Re:Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
Malika2 wrote: Quick question for those selling STLs through Patreon: how do you prevent people from simply sharing the files around or tweaking it slightly and selling them off as their own?
I haven't seen it done yet anywhere, buut, maybe something along the lines of what DrivethruRPG does for pdf files could work.
What DTRPG does is adding a couple of watermarks to the downloaded pdf files: one visible at the end of each page with the number on the purchasing account and the order number, and another embedded inside layers and more hidden with the same info as metadata, IIRC.
Maybe it would be interesting to add something like that to the downloaded STL files, but I guess it would work better (or, you know, at all) with a storefront and a download manager, rather than with the current way (link to a sync/GDrive/whatever folder).
I mean, you won't stop it completely, because I don't think anything can, but it might be interesting to pursue.
OTOH, Patreon is already "the place where you give money more or less directly to people so they can keep doing what they do that you like", so I'm not sure it would help that much.
IME, and going with what's worked and what's not... drm sucks, and sucks for the people that want to pay you for stuff, not for the pirates (who will have circumvented it anyways). So I'm not exactly a fan of anything more invasive than what DTRPG does. If the price is right and the ease of use is there, people will give you money, as Netflix and the like can attest to.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/21 11:48:59
2020/10/21 12:27:39
Subject: Re:Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
If your product is good and fairly priced, piracy is free advertising. If your files are worth sharing, you'll reach way more new potential customers than you will lose sales from people who already know you and would totally have paid for your stuff if they hadn't been able to copy it. Then there's also the argument specific to 3d printing, that it's not even really piracy until you print it, until then it's just a locally stored catalog.
Instead of worrying that people will "steal" from you, make a product that people will love to support. That's it, that's the whole secret.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2020/10/21 12:48:29
Subject: Re:Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
Im kinda pondering whether I should start to sell some of my 6mm stuff through Patreon. It'll mainly be small terrain bits and random units. Still in doubt as in how to start, need to build a decent sized catalogue first.
Malika2 wrote: Im kinda pondering whether I should start to sell some of my 6mm stuff through Patreon. It'll mainly be small terrain bits and random units. Still in doubt as in how to start, need to build a decent sized catalogue first.
You definitely want a few months of stuff ready in advance so you aren't immediately forced into the monthly grind to fill your obligations. It's also probably better at this time to err on the side of cheaper cost with less stuff, to go easy on both the wallets and your own time investment. Be as clear as possible on what and how much people can expect to get for their money. Don't expect a lot until you've proven yourself. Paying a subscription up front for items sight unseen is the major annoyance of the Patreon model and it takes time to build up trust. Make sure to post renders publically, so people can always see your current offering before pledging.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2020/10/22 07:00:59
Subject: Re:Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
warboss wrote: There is software to watermark 3d models but it is not difficult to circumvent according to this video.
Yeah, neither is DTRPG's on pdfs, if you know what you're doing. But if it's not invasive, your product is decently priced and it doesn't make the end product worse, most people won't bother to remove it.
And that's the most invasive "DRM" I can personally stomach.
2020/10/22 21:14:39
Subject: Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
Some great advice from Ketara. I've put up some free bits on MyMiniFactory and had surprisingly good download rate from no advertising and them being pretty generic bits of terrain.
Setting up an actual shop in MMF actually costs you, so again start off with some free bits to start getting yourself known, build up a bit of a backlog and then dive in.
You can do Patreon with a payment per deliverable item (so in your case a pack of bases) and your Patrons will get charged whenever you up load a pack, rather than each month. I don't see too many people doing that, but it is possible and can work if you're just starting out. I would look at other people's base packs and work out what you want to charge post-patreon and reverse engineer a price from that. You'll never compete with the big ones, but a well thought out base patreon could be good. Think about supporting assets as well, for example you have the crystals on those bases. It could be good to also have stls of those on their own at different sizes for people to add onto other bases, or print as larger bits of scatter terrain?
I forgot you could do payments on Patreon like that as well - it's actually a really good idea. Less pressure for me to put out stuff, I might try that out and see if it's better.
Yeah the price on MMF to sell stuff is a barrier for new people like me with a low catalogue.
Plus, there's already a lot of bases for sale in there - at really low prices too.
I have considered supports as a VIP patron as well but:
Since it's bases I have a theory you can just print them flat with no supports needed. I have done myself with moderate success and have seen some other guys on youtube do it as well.
I know people much prefer to just press 1 button and get it printet, which method I want to provide I haven't decided yet.
Ahh you mean just some clusters of the Crystals alone? Might be useful as well.
2020/10/22 23:04:47
Subject: Re:Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
Malika2 wrote: Im kinda pondering whether I should start to sell some of my 6mm stuff through Patreon. It'll mainly be small terrain bits and random units. Still in doubt as in how to start, need to build a decent sized catalogue first.
Do ships and I promise will sub.
On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire.
2020/10/22 23:42:37
Subject: Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
Malika2 wrote: Im kinda pondering whether I should start to sell some of my 6mm stuff through Patreon. It'll mainly be small terrain bits and random units. Still in doubt as in how to start, need to build a decent sized catalogue first.
Do ships and I promise will sub.
Current ship work has been reserved for Vanguard Miniatures, but I've got a whole bunch of ordnance designs I'd want to share...
Malika2 wrote: Im kinda pondering whether I should start to sell some of my 6mm stuff through Patreon. It'll mainly be small terrain bits and random units. Still in doubt as in how to start, need to build a decent sized catalogue first.
Patreon is overflowing with great miniature files creators, most are at the 10 dollars for a whole lotta stuff. So much so that is the expectation -a whole lotta stuff for 10 dollars, every month. And all of them are very good value for money.
Still there are so many that many patrons, myself included are looking into a hard culling or jumping between creators each month depending on their offerings, just because it is so much stuff and tens of dollars quickly add up when there are many creators.
I have also seen several creators drop out because of the pressure of making lots of new files every single month.
However, there are a few creators that do just a few files each month at a significantly lower cost, such as "one gold piece" that charge a measly 1 euro for three to five stls (halflings mainly, I think these are the folks behind Westphalia Miniatures) and I will not be dropping the 1 dollar/euro/pound ones just because, well it's only 1... and the files are nice.
My point is: Might this be a route to take? Charging a small amount such as 1 to 3 dollars per month and delivering a few files instead of whole armies worth for 10 dollars?
Another approach that works is the micro-kickstarter, have seen quite a few in the $5-$25 range which offer a complete package that follows a certain theme.
I've been working on a little something myself that I'll release with that method, with Patreon I'd worry that I wasn't giving people their money's worth every month, or that sculpt quality wasn't quite there, lots of pressure becoming a subscription service.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/26 01:35:07
2020/10/28 03:48:53
Subject: Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
We're drifting a bit off topic, this is supposed to be a recommendation thread. There's a lot of good advice so I'd recommend someone start a thread on how to get started selling your 3D sculpts, I think there would be a lot of good traffic.
And to answer the general question, posters are encouraged to plug their own projects, we just as that you keep it to one thread (ie don't do a new thread for every release).
2020/10/28 12:55:52
Subject: Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
I just found a fab new 40K specific one to subscribe to whilst sieving Patreon for other sci-fi stuff. This month, they've done a ridiculously modular (male and female!) dinosaur rough rider kit and some tank pieces, future months are apparently going to consist of Soviet themed Guard releases (including tanks and artillery). They're called 'II Gargoyles Studio'. Very new and very cool! They're swapping to a monthly release format next month, but as of right now, if you subscribe? You get everything they've done for the last three months!
Ketara wrote: I just found a fab new 40K specific one to subscribe to whilst sieving Patreon for other sci-fi stuff. This month, they've done a ridiculously modular (male and female!) dinosaur rough rider kit and some tank pieces, future months are apparently going to consist of Soviet themed Guard releases (including tanks and artillery). They're called 'II Gargoyles Studio'. Very new and very cool! They're swapping to a monthly release format next month, but as of right now, if you subscribe? You get everything they've done for the last three months!
Wow that's a find! Pledged!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/31 20:58:23
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2020/11/01 10:05:37
Subject: Re:Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
Not sure If I'm allowed to flag myself as a favourite designer but I like what I make lol. Don't have a Patreon as I can't guarantee enough monthly content at the moment (stupid main job gets in the way!)
I have a range of stuff available from terrain to vehicles to weapons and kit upgrades
Anyhoo - check out some of my stuff at www.watcorpdesigns.com
Cheers
Chaos Battleship - 3D print your own evil starship!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/watcorpdesigns/chaos-battleship
I don't think anyone has mentioned Epic Miniatures yet, and they're a great one for themed fantasy stuff (more aimed at RPGs than wargaming, to be fair) and offer an insane minis to dollar ratio Each month gives you three sets, but sub at the beginning of the month and they overlap which means that right now, ten bucks gets you all of this:
They're not prrsupported, and especially the female humanoid sculpts are very narrow and might need scaling up a bit, but it's hard to argue with the value for money and the sculpts have a lot of character to them. https://www.patreon.com/epic_miniatures/
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/02 22:21:12
2020/11/04 21:45:24
Subject: Re:Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
There's another new 40K one on the block, a collaborative of three modellers (basically a Makers Cult style approach). They're called Dark Foundry Miniatures:-
Their opening schtick is a nautical themed Chaos Space Marine kit and some Necrons. I can't help but feel that they're a bit pricey at eleven quid though. I'd have been happy to pay the eight fifty, with VAT, it works out to about a tenner. At eleven quid, the VAT plus takes it up to almost fifteen and...well, put it this way. Aphyrion are the only ones charging in that price range right now in my Patreon list, and they're giving me something like five tank kits this month. So it feels a tad overpriced.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/04 21:45:38
2020/11/05 08:49:08
Subject: Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
Hmmm I like the Teknops stuff... but not really feeling the other bits in there which is a shame as I've been watching the Teknops come together on facebook for a while and really liking them
I'm not sure how I feel about their use of the Blood Angel trademark armor abs and nipples. I suppose they should probably share just like Black Templars and Dark Angels with their pretty dresses.
2020/11/07 00:47:20
Subject: Re:Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
